What is the best fix for the transmission oil transfer into the primary case? Is it the new breather hose from Harley or is it the replacement of the pushrod in the clutch from a 2014 CVO which is thicker than what's in the M8?
Vent tube fixed mine
Did you have to pay for that or did they cover it?
Very timely post, a friend's just started doing it, a '17 with 40,000 miles. Goes in next week, hope he doesn't get the run around.
Quote from: jstitan2017 on September 29, 2019, 02:58:01 PM
Did you have to pay for that or did they cover it?
Mine is a 19 and under warranty so it was covered.
This is what I use on them. Rocker Lockers is giving the kits away to people that want to beta test.
I have 3 of them in the field currently with zero transferring issues.
http://rockerlockers.com/wordpress/?page_id=215
[attach=0]
Quote from: Durwood on September 30, 2019, 04:52:28 AM
This is what I use on them. Rocker Lockers is giving the kits away to people that want to beta test.
I have 3 of them in the field currently with zero transferring issues.
http://rockerlockers.com/wordpress/?page_id=215
[attach=0]
:doh: Durwood, you know what happened last time a drawing for an HD cure was posted here. :crook: I hope it"s well protected by now.
Quote from: kd on September 30, 2019, 04:57:15 AM
Quote from: Durwood on September 30, 2019, 04:52:28 AM
This is what I use on them. Rocker Lockers is giving the kits away to people that want to beta test.
I have 3 of them in the field currently with zero transferring issues.
http://rockerlockers.com/wordpress/?page_id=215
[attach=0,msg1317393]
:doh: Durwood, you know what happened last time a drawing for an HD cure was posted here. :crook: I hope it"s well protected by now.
kd, I hear ya.
the rod that Gregg Williams sells works have 4 dozen plus installed no issues and I put one on the drum and did 3000- 3500-4000 RPM runs solved the issue .
the fat clutch rod slowed my transfer down, but did not stop it. I put the vent kit in
Dealer put the vent in my 18 King and with 4,500 miles with the vent, oil is below the dipstick again. Before the vent the usage was 10oz's in 300 miles with the sleeve in the main shaft. Yes, they took the sleeve out before the vent install. [ so they said ] Going back in this winter, trying to get a few rides in before Michigan freezes over. Just don't want to hear Harley say ...... That's acceptable. If so, this bike is going and so am I, to an Indian or maybe a Wing stealer Been riding HD's for 54 years and tired of living with this kind of bullshit from shitty quality control at best and not backing it up under their warranty. Been living with this issue for two years now. Warranty over in February and so am I. Every new Harley I've bought from 2000 on has had issues like cam bearing failures to cranks twisting. None of these issues ever happened at home, always when traveling and loaded down. For the price HD gets for these beautiful machines they should run as good as they look. Not just look good sitting in a parking lot. Don't give a "Potty mouth" about the Harley image anymore, more interested in reliability and then performance in my Harley. My Thought.......Harley sells great images, not so great motorcycles.
Quote from: Jobie on October 29, 2019, 04:24:48 PM
For the price HD gets for these beautiful machines they should run as good as they look. Not just look good sitting in a parking lot. Don't give a "Potty mouth" about the Harley image anymore, more interested in reliability and then performance in my Harley. My Thought.......Harley sells great images, not so great motorcycles.
That pretty much sums it up :cry:
Quote from: Jobie on October 29, 2019, 04:24:48 PM
Dealer put the vent in my 18 King and with 4,500 miles with the vent, oil is below the dipstick again. Before the vent the usage was 10oz's in 300 miles with the sleeve in the main shaft. Yes, they took the sleeve out before the vent install. [ so they said ] Going back in this winter, trying to get a few rides in before Michigan freezes over. Just don't want to hear Harley say ...... That's acceptable. If so, this bike is going and so am I, to an Indian or maybe a Wing stealer Been riding HD's for 54 years and tired of living with this kind of bullshit from shitty quality control at best and not backing it up under their warranty. Been living with this issue for two years now. Warranty over in February and so am I. Every new Harley I've bought from 2000 on has had issues like cam bearing failures to cranks twisting. None of these issues ever happened at home, always when traveling and loaded down. For the price HD gets for these beautiful machines they should run as good as they look. Not just look good sitting in a parking lot. Don't give a "Potty mouth" about the Harley image anymore, more interested in reliability and then performance in my Harley. My Thought.......Harley sells great images, not so great motorcycles.
Amen
I installed a breather, a fat rod and I modified clutch slave cylinder housing.
No more transfer.
The $48.00 HD vent kit cures it.
Quote from: Hillside Motorcycle on November 01, 2019, 03:36:14 AM
The $48.00 HD vent kit cures it.
I think what pisses me of is why should the owner with a known problem and a known factory fix have to pay for it. HD should fix the fk up on their dime.
Ron
Quote from: rbabos on November 01, 2019, 05:28:11 AM
Quote from: Hillside Motorcycle on November 01, 2019, 03:36:14 AM
The $48.00 HD vent kit cures it.
I think what pisses me of is why should the owner with a known problem and a known factory fix have to pay for it. HD should fix the fk up on their dime.
Ron
Exactly Ron, across the board they should take care of them all, but you know how they roll.
Quote from: Jobie on October 29, 2019, 04:24:48 PM
Dealer put the vent in my 18 King and with 4,500 miles with the vent, oil is below the dipstick again. Before the vent the usage was 10oz's in 300 miles with the sleeve in the main shaft. Yes, they took the sleeve out before the vent install. [ so they said ] Going back in this winter, trying to get a few rides in before Michigan freezes over. Just don't want to hear Harley say ...... That's acceptable. If so, this bike is going and so am I, to an Indian or maybe a Wing stealer Been riding HD's for 54 years and tired of living with this kind of bullshit from shitty quality control at best and not backing it up under their warranty. Been living with this issue for two years now. Warranty over in February and so am I. Every new Harley I've bought from 2000 on has had issues like cam bearing failures to cranks twisting. None of these issues ever happened at home, always when traveling and loaded down. For the price HD gets for these beautiful machines they should run as good as they look. Not just look good sitting in a parking lot. Don't give a "Potty mouth" about the Harley image anymore, more interested in reliability and then performance in my Harley. My Thought.......Harley sells great images, not so great motorcycles.
:agree:
Quote from: rbabos on November 01, 2019, 05:28:11 AM
Quote from: Hillside Motorcycle on November 01, 2019, 03:36:14 AM
The $48.00 HD vent kit cures it.
I think what pisses me of is why should the owner with a known problem and a known factory fix have to pay for it. HD should fix the fk up on their dime.
Ron
Oh.....no disagreement from me.
They will only attend to that free of charge, if the bike is still under warranty, as per our local HD store.
We even carry those in stock now....
Quote from: Hillside Motorcycle on November 04, 2019, 03:31:21 AM
Quote from: rbabos on November 01, 2019, 05:28:11 AM
Quote from: Hillside Motorcycle on November 01, 2019, 03:36:14 AM
The $48.00 HD vent kit cures it.
I think what pisses me of is why should the owner with a known problem and a known factory fix have to pay for it. HD should fix the fk up on their dime.
Ron
Oh.....no disagreement from me.
They will only attend to that free of charge, if the bike is still under warranty, as per our local HD store.
We even carry those in stock now....
Guy I know fixed his with a 1/8th 90° barbed hose fitting and some fuel line hose. Less than $5. :nix:
Why not just get the vent hose for $4 in change then the kit.
Quote from: BUGLET on November 04, 2019, 09:10:21 AM
Why not just get the vent hose for $4 in change then the kit.
If the bike is out of warranty that is the way to go!
Quote from: Hillside Motorcycle on November 01, 2019, 03:36:14 AM
The $48.00 HD vent kit cures it.
I hope so!! Your doing mine during the 128 Build... I hear it solves the issue... Thanks, Scott
I don't blame him. A $25,000-$30,000 should not have such simple to cure issues.
Re-engineer the tranny main shaft for a tighter fit of the release rod, put a simple oil seal at one end and vent the primary. Done deal. Either that or figure out why the primary has such a vacuum.
I just shake my head, it has been four model years and many are still not satisfied this issue is fixed.
I think it was already determined that the change of design to the engine drive side brg assembly construction allows engine crankcase vacuum to invade the primary and pull oil from / through the transmission main shaft. The phoney vent bandaid "fix" just prevents vacuum from building. It doesn't address the real problem.
Quote from: PoorUB on November 06, 2019, 12:07:38 PM
I don't blame him. A $25,000-$30,000 should not have such simple to cure issues.
Re-engineer the tranny main shaft for a tighter fit of the release rod, put a simple oil seal at one end and vent the primary. Done deal. Either that or figure out why the primary has such a vacuum.
I just shake my head, it has been four model years and many are still not satisfied this issue is fixed.
How many model years did it take them to address the cam tensioners on the TC?
Quote from: kd on November 06, 2019, 12:25:55 PM
The phoney vent bandaid "fix" just prevents vacuum from building. It doesn't address the real problem.
If the so called "Phony vent band aid fix" stops the oil from transferring, the problem is solved...
The problem is oil transfer from the gearbox to the primary, not pressure here, not vacuum there etc... the problem is oil transfer...And the vent cures it.
Quote from: Dan89flstc on November 06, 2019, 06:46:08 PM
Quote from: kd on November 06, 2019, 12:25:55 PM
The phoney vent bandaid "fix" just prevents vacuum from building. It doesn't address the real problem.
If the so called "Phony vent band aid fix" stops the oil from transferring, the problem is solved...
The problem is oil transfer from the gearbox to the primary, not pressure here, not vacuum there etc... the problem is oil transfer...And the vent cures it.
Well Dan, the TC engines didn't do it. Where is the design change? The main drive bearing assembly.
If there isn't a pressure differential, what, if not a vacuum, causes the oil to leave the transmission and migrate to the primary chain case? Maybe you could explain to me why a "vent" as you say solves the problem if there is no vacuum effect?
Quote from: kd on November 06, 2019, 08:40:20 PM
Quote from: Dan89flstc on November 06, 2019, 06:46:08 PM
Quote from: kd on November 06, 2019, 12:25:55 PM
The phoney vent bandaid "fix" just prevents vacuum from building. It doesn't address the real problem.
If the so called "Phony vent band aid fix" stops the oil from transferring, the problem is solved...
The problem is oil transfer from the gearbox to the primary, not pressure here, not vacuum there etc... the problem is oil transfer...And the vent cures it.
Well Dan, the TC engines didn't do it. Where is the design change? The main drive bearing assembly.
If there isn't a pressure differential, what, if not a vacuum, causes the oil to leave the transmission and migrate to the primary chain case? Maybe you could explain to me why a "vent" as you say solves the problem if there is no vacuum effect?
So what if there is a vacuum, the solution is the vent, simple, problem solved. The problem is not vacuum or pressure, they are the cause of the problem (the actual problem is
oil transfer)... The vent cures the problem.
Carry on Dan. You would make a good Harley service manager. :crook:
:hyst:
Quote from: kd on November 06, 2019, 08:40:20 PM
Quote from: Dan89flstc on November 06, 2019, 06:46:08 PM
Quote from: kd on November 06, 2019, 12:25:55 PM
The phoney vent bandaid "fix" just prevents vacuum from building. It doesn't address the real problem.
If the so called "Phony vent band aid fix" stops the oil from transferring, the problem is solved...
The problem is oil transfer from the gearbox to the primary, not pressure here, not vacuum there etc... the problem is oil transfer...And the vent cures it.
Well Dan, the TC engines didn't do it. Where is the design change? The main drive bearing assembly.
If there isn't a pressure differential, what, if not a vacuum, causes the oil to leave the transmission and migrate to the primary chain case? Maybe you could explain to me why a "vent" as you say solves the problem if there is no vacuum effect?
I can't believe that in the 4th year of M8 we are still talking about it, let alone accepting it . It's clearly related to a pressure differential of some form and HD chose a way to mask the problem and not actually nip it at the source. This whole fkg fiasco turned me right off of HD to the point I will never buy another new bike from them. Well that and a few other things I won't get into.
Ron
Quote from: Dan89flstc on November 07, 2019, 05:26:59 AM
Quote from: kd on November 06, 2019, 08:40:20 PM
Quote from: Dan89flstc on November 06, 2019, 06:46:08 PM
Quote from: kd on November 06, 2019, 12:25:55 PM
The phoney vent bandaid "fix" just prevents vacuum from building. It doesn't address the real problem.
If the so called "Phony vent band aid fix" stops the oil from transferring, the problem is solved...
The problem is oil transfer from the gearbox to the primary, not pressure here, not vacuum there etc... the problem is oil transfer...And the vent cures it.
Well Dan, the TC engines didn't do it. Where is the design change? The main drive bearing assembly.
If there isn't a pressure differential, what, if not a vacuum, causes the oil to leave the transmission and migrate to the primary chain case? Maybe you could explain to me why a "vent" as you say solves the problem if there is no vacuum effect?
So what if there is a vacuum, the solution is the vent, simple, problem solved. The problem is not vacuum or pressure, they are the cause of the problem (the actual problem is oil transfer)... The vent cures the problem.
My understanding is not completely but reduces it to a lesser bitching level.
Ron
Quote from: Dan89flstc on November 07, 2019, 05:26:59 AM
So what if there is a vacuum, the solution is the vent, simple, problem solved. The problem is not vacuum or pressure, they are the cause of the problem (the actual problem is oil transfer)... The vent cures the problem.
Curing the problem would be addressing why the primary goes into a vacuum. Fix the crank seal, fix the sleeve the seal rides on. Putting a vent on the primary is a bandaid.
The primary always vented through the trans, since the primary's went wet. Nothing new there.
What changes is a slave cylinder sitting on the right end of the main shaft that holds oil. Making the oil available to be pulled through.
You cant suck a trans dry through the main shaft. Pretty quick it will be above the running level of the oil. But you can sling oil into the pocket created by the slave cylinder. Then suck it into the primary.
So now look at all the ways to fix it.
Redesign the crank bearing seal to eliminate any engine vacuum from entering the primary. Even if its just a new seal, its big labor in the field. And would probably create additional issues because of tech skill levels.
Redesign the slave cylinder and or trap door. Again big labor charge and more than $2 worth of parts. Not to mention the cost of retooling the parts.
Cheap seal on the push rod. Good idea, but didn't work.
Self sealing push rod. Opps, someone beat them to that one. Would need to pay royalties and they don't always fix the issue.
Drill a hole in the primary. Bingo! Seems to work, and don't cost much to field install. And its within the skill level of the tech force, so dealers can install them by the dozens. I just wonder why they didn't spend another nickel and include a little debris cap for the hose. Help keep the dust and water out.
:agree: with your 1st, 2nd and last points. Preference to the first 2 then the last point would have no practical relevance.
Quote from: kd on November 07, 2019, 05:36:34 AM
Carry on Dan. You would make a good Harley service manager. :crook:
No, I wouldn`t...
I`d get fired for calling somebody a dick. :crook:
thread title is 'Best fix for trans oil transfer'
drill a hole in the back of the inner primary :teeth:
not the most popular solution on a tech site
who would a thunk it :hyst:
Quote from: 98fxstc on November 07, 2019, 03:26:27 PM
thread title is 'Best fix for trans oil transfer'
drill a hole in the back of the inner primary :teeth:
not the most popular solution on a tech site
who would a thunk it :hyst:
God forbid someone would want to fix the actual problem!
Quote from: Thermodyne on November 07, 2019, 09:37:04 AM
What changes is a slave cylinder sitting on the right end of the main shaft that holds oil. Making the oil available to be pulled through.
But why wasn't a problem on the TC models with hydraulic clutch? The problem got out of control when the M8 showed up. Before then nobody ever hear of the issue.
I have a 2016 Limited, no transfer with it.
Cripes, HD had hyro clutches on the CVOs for many years with no issues. Pretty crazy how a company can take existing engineering and F it up!
I believe it's because the redesigned trap door / clutch actuator assembly allowed oil to collect where the old design did not.
Is the bearing and seal not the same on touring and non touring models?
Found this today. It may be old news to some, but I found it informative.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QolhZGpFULQ
good to see that they made the video BUT I don't understand why they don't see the cause of the issue
perhaps if they looked at a Hydraulic Clutch system instead of the Ball and Ramp system
(https://i.imgur.com/czGiLHt.png)
Thank you, everyone, for publishing your results.
Effin factory and dealers. I got this now... The only thing that I will add is a section of a sintered fuel filter stuffed into the end of the tube.
Quote from: kd on November 06, 2019, 12:25:55 PM
I think it was already determined that the change of design to the engine drive side brg assembly construction allows engine crankcase vacuum to invade the primary and pull oil from / through the transmission main shaft. The phoney vent bandaid "fix" just prevents vacuum from building. It doesn't address the real problem.
True, the fix should be an engineering solution.
An AIM slave cylinder and a vent fixes them every time with the bonus of beautiful light clutch feel.
If the AIM s/c isn't fitted, a vent and a machined release passage in the s/c housing fixes them.
I can't support closing off the OEM primary venting system with fat-rods or seals, the primary needs to run at atmo IMO.