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Too much build for a touring bike

Started by Ironheadmike, May 16, 2019, 10:40:25 AM

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Ironheadmike

First of all , this is not a "touring bike". It's a heritage springer softail . I do a ton of 300-500 mile rides every year . I was thinking of going with  10.5 comp pistons with a Woods 8 cam . I'm running roughly a 3:59 gear ratio . I know this type of build is a good bar hopper , but how is the reliability on long rides ?

twincam8888

Just my opinion but I've seen a couple high compression evo's pull the cylinder studs loose in the engine case. So I would stay 10:1 but maybe they wern't installed correctly? Others with more experience will know more.
But what do I know? I drive a party bus.

JW113

Reliability is all a matter of what parts were used, and how much abuse the equipment is expected to take and for how long. You didn't mention year of bike. As 8888 mentioned, cylinder studs can be a problem with EVO motors, especially if the heads/cylinders have been off. Also, certain years (90-94) are prone to crack the engine cases between the cylinders above the tappet blocks. (mine did!) And certain years (87-89) are prone to have the left side case insert come loose. If you want a hot rod EVO motor, plan to use it, and expect reliability out it, then the stock parts are not the best choice. In my opinion, of course!

Also, 3.59:1 gears on a rigid mount on road trips? Dang dude, you're a tougher guy than I! Bumping up the compression ratio will make it vibrate more than it already does...

-JW
2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber

Ironheadmike

The bike is a 98 . I'm running 10:1 with a woods6 right now . Most of my cruising is 60-70  . The vibes aren't bad at all .  The motor is  solid . I just want a little more pull . Also I'm running Scottsman heads .

Burnout

A hot_rodded motor isn't going to last as long touring, I'd say leave it alone. In this case more is not better. You are sort of pushing it as it is, unpredictable fuel sources on high compression is risky.

A 9:1 compression big bore 4 1/2 or 4 5/8 stroker is a better way to get more and still tolerate unpredictable fuel. You already have worked heads that will complement that setup. Look at what S&S offers for their sweet spot 93"
They don't call me Ironhead Rick just because I'm "hard headed"

thumper 823

Be honest with your self how far you want to go between top end work.
I have tried lot of combinations cause I want everything.
Every time I redo the top I get a little more risque.
But I know at the 20K mark it is coming apart .
Again.
I ride mine to Sturgis and everywhere.
Not scared of it.
It is pretty jacked up per cube .
Here is hoping for a good season too.
D Troop 3/5, - C/16 ,162AHC, Mekong delta.
Rising from the Ashes  UHIH

JW113

60-70? I guess that's not a problem them. I was thinking 80+, and 500-600 miles/day. Living out west, that's pretty much a requisite if you're gonna go anywhere back east. I just think you're asking a lot to have a hot rod bar hopper AND a tourer AND reliability in one package. But let's ask, what is your definition of reliability? Doesn't break, but needs lots of maintenance and rebuilds?

-JW
2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber

Ironheadmike

The build I have now has lasted over 80,000 with gen maintenance ie, annual adjustments , regular oil changes , swapping out lifters every 20,000 ... I was thinking something in that range .

Hillside Motorcycle

Used a ton of Wood 8 cams in 80" Evo's over the years.
Some for folks that were in VERY large M/C clubs, that cannot afford to have less than great reliability, and power.
Otto Knowbetter sez, "Even a fish wouldn't get caught if he kept his mouth shut"

Ironheadmike

I was hoping you would chime in Scott . Thanks

Adam76

May 26, 2019, 07:53:25 PM #10 Last Edit: May 26, 2019, 08:57:13 PM by Adam76
Quote from: Hillside Motorcycle on May 19, 2019, 03:37:03 AM
Used a ton of Wood 8 cams in 80" Evo's over the years.
Some for folks that were in VERY large M/C clubs, that cannot afford to have less than great reliability, and power.
Thanks Scott.
For those of us doing a top end rebuild and considering cams....
Thanks

Adam76

May 26, 2019, 10:33:57 PM #11 Last Edit: May 27, 2019, 03:46:14 AM by Adam76
Quote from: Ironheadmike on May 16, 2019, 04:42:38 PM
The bike is a 98 . I'm running 10:1 with a woods6 right now . Most of my cruising is 60-70  . The vibes aren't bad at all .  The motor is  solid . I just want a little more pull . Also I'm running Scottsman heads .

Hillside Motorcycle

Good lifters along with a good pre-load on the lifters and that Evo grind isn't really noisy. :up:
Otto Knowbetter sez, "Even a fish wouldn't get caught if he kept his mouth shut"

Ironheadmike

Actually it's pretty quiet . At idle you hear the pistons sliding over the lifters . I'm using S&S lifters set at .125 if I remember right .

Adam76

Quote from: Ironheadmike on May 16, 2019, 04:42:38 PM
The bike is a 98 . I'm running 10:1 with a woods6 right now . Most of my cruising is 60-70  . The vibes aren't bad at all .  The motor is  solid . I just want a little more pull . Also I'm running Scottsman heads .
Hey Mike, just a question about your current bulid..  what pistons did you go with  and was the W6 a straight bolt in cam? Or did it need some clearance ?
Thanks

Ironheadmike

I went with Wiseco pistons and yes the W6 is a bolt in . My CC is right at 190 .

Adam76

Quote from: Ironheadmike on May 29, 2019, 03:43:46 AM
I went with Wiseco pistons and yes the W6 is a bolt in . My CC is right at 190 .
:up:

1workinman

May 29, 2019, 05:57:26 PM #17 Last Edit: May 29, 2019, 06:05:09 PM by 1workinman
Quote from: Ironheadmike on May 16, 2019, 10:40:25 AM
First of all , this is not a "touring bike". It's a heritage springer softail . I do a ton of 300-500 mile rides every year . I was thinking of going with  10.5 comp pistons with a Woods 8 cam . I'm running roughly a 3:59 gear ratio . I know this type of build is a good bar hopper , but how is the reliability on long rides ?
My friend Terry has a Captain America Fat boy that Steve at GMR did the top end a few years ago and Steve suggested installing a new SS what was it 100 cubic inch or something like that at the time. Any was Steve I think did the 10. to 1 and a cam and what ever else fresh in up the heads ect and a tune . Don't  quote me here but I think Steve mentioned about the engine  developed problems cracking or whatever at a certain HP  He and I tour together  Him on his Fat boy and me on my 12 Street glide  ride 2 up  I don't just run away from Terry on that bike .  Glad I have a 124 in my bike that makes in the 140s square ,. loaded 2 up it needs it to keep up with that fat boy

thumper 823

Of Theorem and theories -
Everyone has one, - but to break it dwn to the most simplistic and skip a few things

You can build big,  that is lots of inches but ask little of it as aircraft do.
You will get lots of time B4 overhaul on the top end.
As a rule, a 300-inch AC engine will be at full power at half per cube!  Producing about 150 HP because they have to run
WOT to 3/4 most the time.
The low CR allows for the abuse.
HD does the same thing.
They will sell you big inches but detuned to about 60 or 70 %

If you want performance  -The beauty is in making what you have work better.
Not just Bolting on the cubes
By improving the VE. (cams , ports, CR, squish, Etc ETC ETC )
However, it is all linear -
The more you ask per cube the less time you have between top ends.
It is that simple
One to one or more for performance
3/4 to one for long TBO
D Troop 3/5, - C/16 ,162AHC, Mekong delta.
Rising from the Ashes  UHIH