March 29, 2024, 12:11:18 AM

News:

For advertising inquiries or help with registration or other issues, you may contact us by email at help@harleytechtalk.com


1st gear issue

Started by BKACHE, June 19, 2019, 09:48:22 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

BKACHE

When the bike ('96 FXD) is cold in the first mile or two of city traffic the tranny will jump out of first gear after 10 feet or so. It does ratchet when first putting it into gear after a good nights sleep - cold. Back when I had the inner primary off I did try to adjust the prawl adjuster to dead center of the pins it moves on the gear selector.
So what did I do wrong and what is the cause? Why after a few mins of riding does the symptom go away?
FYI, I did take the selector wheel and forks out and inspected. They all '''look''' good, that is as far as not any wear or bent fork that I could see.
All comments and suggestions are more than welcome.
TIA 
Dan

MikeL

Probably when the oil is cold the oil is thick and pushes. When the cover was off did you notice if the shifter shaft lever spring was there? If it's there it could be weak. That spring puts pressure on the drum pawl to keep the drum in the selected position. Maybe when the oil is cold it compromises the spring tension and causes the drum to kick out of gear. Part # 34083-79 is the spring
http://partsfinder.onlinemicrofiche.com/ronnies/showmodel.asp?Type=13&make=hdmc&a=237&b=1

                                                                                                       MIKE

BKACHE

That makes sense. And part #51 on the lever is a bit easier to replace than #55 down below.
Dan

MikeL

BKACHE, I had a similar problem on my 2002 Fat Boy. Basically same trans. It had the same symptoms in the beginning then that #51 spring broke. A small piece broke off. It missed all gears no major dental work :smiled:. I could not fish it out with a magnet. Pull the gear set. Found it.
With the cover off in your case try moving the gears around. Those little caged needle bearings can wear and may also cause problems with the gears sliding in and out of position. 
http://partsfinder.onlinemicrofiche.com/ronnies/showmodel.asp?Type=13&make=hdmc&A=237&B=1
#2 bearing there are 4 of them


                                                                                                        MIKE

BKACHE

Thanx - I will verify this weekend. I am pulling the inner pri off for a leak around the rotor. That big thin o-ring between engine and inner pri seems to be the culprit. I will get the top off the tranny then and replace the pawl spring and inspect whatever I can then.
Thanx again 
Dan

Burnout

I would first verify that the linkage is not running out of travel and only providing partial engagement.

I'd guess it has been run like that for too long and the dogs are getting rounded off (the back cut is worn away) and that is causing it to spit it out of gear.

May also be some gearset shimming issue causing a partial shift.
They don't call me Ironhead Rick just because I'm "hard headed"

BKACHE

I did have the inner off and tried to get the press fit bolt out of the pawl shaft. I do not have the tools for it. I do have the spring but to bend it to take off was not in the cards.
I do think burner has a point. I have been able to find a neutral in between just about every gear. This is since 132K miles when it went in for the spring to be replaced. I have been wondering if a snap ring/spacer was missed way back then. I now plan to ride it and have the trans done by an indi in the late fall. The good news is, no more leak from the primary.
 
Dan

Hossamania

If you're really worried about it (I would be), a good indie would have you in and out of the shop in a day, two at best. Not much down time to miss during riding season. I'm just not a fan of "waiting till the end of riding season" repair strategy.
If the government gives you everything you want,
it can take away everything you have.

BKACHE

does a '97 softtail gearset work in a '96 FXD?
Dan

Burnout

I believe so, I think the entire gearset swaps in up to 06 (or including) all models.
They don't call me Ironhead Rick just because I'm "hard headed"

BKACHE

I ordered and put in a new pawl.
I also moved the adjuster a 'red hair' over to make a more secure shift into first.
The ride into work this AM went fine. I did find my neutral between 4 and 5 - but that has been there for a while.
As an aside - the 'torque multiplier' that I bought allowed me to take the comp nut off with just (what seemed like) 50lbs of pressure from my 1/2 inch wrench. Nice!
Dan

Burnout

For the standard 5 speed you should have gotten a Posi-Shift pawl from Baker, prevents shift drum over-rotation (false neutrals).
They don't call me Ironhead Rick just because I'm "hard headed"

hdbikedoc

shift pawl adjustmen is in 3rd gear did you do adjustment in 3rd
heavy cold oil does funny things
Keep your feet on the pegs and your right hand cranked

BKACHE

Yes - their is also a video that show that on this site. It shows the tear down and install of a 5 speed in a Spute case. I did not pull the gears, but plan to after Sturgis. It now goes into first fine. Upshifts are all good too, but I can find a neutral between 2nd and 3rd and 3rd and 4th. I plan on Burnouts suggestion on the Baker lever and inspecting each gear once out of the trans. Luckily I have a '82 FXRS to ride in the mean time. 
These old bikes do have personalities.
Dan

Burnout

A posi-shift will positively stop the shift drum at the next gear and prevents the over-rotation that causes false neutrals.
They don't call me Ironhead Rick just because I'm "hard headed"

Chameleon90

I used to have that false neutral issue, but bought a 02 Softail 5 speed from a friend, swapped that out and swapped the top cover and the fork assembly and now it works fine.  Plus it is a closer mesh so I have that solid clunk when shifting.
Jeff
Cheesehead

Dan89flstc

Quote from: Burnout on July 02, 2019, 04:50:39 PM
For the standard 5 speed you should have gotten a Posi-Shift pawl from Baker, prevents shift drum over-rotation (false neutrals).

Shift drum and shift pawl/shaft assembly from `02 and later 5 speed will also greatly improve shifting, some say this setup is better than the Baker parts.

I have an `05 shift drum/pawl in my `89 Softail (`99 gearset) and it was a great improvement.
US Navy Veteran
A&P Mechanic