Charging system question.

[Paniolo]

So which is it? It will make more voltage the higher the rpm

and at 2000rpms 28-30.

At 2500 rpm's it read 19 to 20.

I tested it again. At 2500 rpms it was 28-32.

[Coyote]

Its lower than HD says it should be, right?

[Billy]

So which is it? It will make more voltage the higher the rpm

and at 2000rpms 28-30.

At 2500 rpm's it read 19 to 20.

I tested it again. At 2500 rpms it was 28-32.

Too low. Pull the primary cover and check the compensator nut, I'll bet it's loose and the splines on the rotor are striped out.

[smoserx1]

I read an article from Cycle Electric suggesting the waveform of some of these charging systems is not a true sine wave and if that is the case you only get an accurate ACV reading using a true RMS meter.  I can pretty much guarantee you the one you are showing in the picture is not that.  I have one that looks just like it with a different brand name on it.  Every test you have made on that stator suggests to me it is OK.  Your isolation test showed infinite resistance using a 2 meghom range ((2000K)and that is the best range to use for that test)).  Your resistance test showed little value on the same range (the 200 ohm range would have given you a better reading on that one)and your ACV is showing a value close to specification using a meter with questionable accuracy on that function.  Finally you noticed no unusual odor coming from your primary.  I would be focusing on your regulator at this point.

[Paniolo]

you only get an accurate ACV reading using a true RMS meter.  I can pretty much guarantee you the one you are showing in the picture is not that.  I would be focusing on your regulator at this point.

No, it's not an RMS meter, it's a $20 multi-meter from the local auto parts store. And to be honest, I really am not getting all the use out of it other than checking ohm resistance and voltage.

Moving forward, how do I check the regulator?

[smoserx1]

Moving forward, how do I check the regulator?

Best way I know would be to unplug the output and test fot DC voltage.  Use the 20VDC range on that meter and see what you get (with the stator connected of course).  Looks like the connections are on the bottom of the regulator, round 3 pin connector for the stator and rectangular 2 pin for the DC output.  All I have is a digital copy of a 2006 touring manual and it does not go into testing specifics.  I know on mine (single phase) there is a backfeed test you can do with a test lamp, but I bet of you measure the DC output and get something lower than 14 volts it is bad.  Remember the regulator output voltage must be greater than the battery voltage to charge the battery, and your previous preliminary test (battery voltage < 12V while  running) suggests otherwise.  Good luck!!!

[Rusticwater]

I tested it again. At 2500 rpms it was 28-32.

Its lower than HD says it should be, right?

Should be higher. I'd want to get a closer look inside at the alternator directly. Not saying the regulator isn't bad too, but the voltage output is low for that rpm. For peace of mind I'd want to lay eyes on what's going on inside...

Too low. Pull the primary cover and check the compensator nut, I'll bet it's loose and the splines on the rotor are striped out.

As Billy mentioned, the rotor splines being stripped is a distinct possibility.

Moving forward, how do I check the regulator?

You've already tested the output, didn't you? 11.5V back in your first post?

Please don't take this the wrong way but it sounds like you've convinced yourself there's nothing wrong with the alternator...but your own tests say otherwise...

[Paniolo]

Please don't take this the wrong way but it sounds like you've convinced yourself there's nothing wrong with the alternator...but your own tests say otherwise...

I'm not convinced of anything, just trying to do what I can to troubleshoot. Now I can drain and pull the outer primary cover off, however that's about the limit of my current ability. By that I mean I do not have a primary locking tool, and I don't have a long 1/2" breaker bar and impact sockets to remove the compensator nut and clutch pack. For that I will have to go to my shop.

Once again, my attempts to diagnose the problem stemmed from wanting to know if I could ride my bike to the shop, or if I should trailer it.

Mark

[fbn ent]

How far is the shop?

[Paniolo]

How far is the shop?

It's about 39 miles at 45 mins riding time.

[tdrglide]

If I were you and I owned a trailer, I'd trailer it. Otherwise I would pull the headlight fuse. Start it with a fully charged, known good battery and ride it to the shop. Don't forget to bring your cellphone. Have someone follow you.
Or you could swap in a new voltage regulator and see. Sounds like you are not anxious to pull the comp and clutch out.

[truck]

I did about that length of ride on an Fuel injected Ultra. I disabled the lighting and started with a full charge. I did have a back up plan though. I duct taped a lawn tractor battery to the passenger foot board in case I needed a Jump.

[Phu Cat]

If it turns out your stator IS bad, if you can afford it, have a Cycle Lectrics stator put in.  Yep, you'll pay more but it'll be the last new stator you'll ever need.  (If you can hold the new stator in your hand before it's installed and you can see the old one, you'll see how much better insulated the new one is.)

PC

[Coyote]

All the troubleshooting in the world isn't going to tell you whether or not you can go 39 miles. Either take your chances or you don't. 

[kd]

If you've got loose magnets or some other physical damage causing your problem, riding it might get ugly.  If you ride it and find serious issues that mean you can't ride back what will you do?  Call a cab or Uber?  I'd trailer it.

[Rusticwater]

Now I can drain and pull the outer primary cover off, however that's about the limit of my current ability. By that I mean I do not have a primary locking tool, and I don't have a long 1/2" breaker bar and impact sockets to remove the compensator nut and clutch pack. For that I will have to go to my shop.

Once again, my attempts to diagnose the problem stemmed from wanting to know if I could ride my bike to the shop, or if I should trailer it.

Understood. And I personally wouldn't want to attempt it without having a jack or lift of some sort, I don't know if you do.

But last year at this time I never dreamed of pulling the primary, then last September I ended up having to pull it twice. In the process I learned something about my bike that was beneficial for the entire forum (see my post about shifter shaft seals with the photo comparisons and special installation instructions).

I didn't use any impact tools at all, I don't have any and I didn't need them. I did have a locking bar (and you do want to use the bar type to lock the comp as opposed to a wedge) but in a pinch a suitable length of hardwood would suffice. A breaker bar is a trip to Home Depot, Tractor Supply, whatever.

At that time I had the primary off, curiosity got the best of me and I removed the rotor to have a look see. Good thing I did because I discovered something.

Ever pull your primary drain plug and see a little "sludge" on it? That same stuff accumulates inside your rotor in the gaps between the individual magnets. Over time, that sludge in the gaps will degrade the effect of the magnetic fields. Weaker magnetic fields, weaker electrical output. Magnets naturally decay over time too and heat hastens the process, but I digress.

As that sludge builds up it can affect the clearances between the stator and the rotor. Remember the rotor is 'rotating' at engine rpm around a 'stationary' stator. The sludge buildup can get to the point where something is going to come into contact with something else then bad things begin to happen, like an insulation failure and a short. So I used contact cleaner and Q-tips and cleaned it all out. I gave the stator a good bath with contact cleaner as well, not that it needed it but why not since I was in there.

Anyway, your CVO is a wonderful bike and out of an abundance of caution I suggest you don't run the engine any more than absolutely necessary until this is resolved...

[Paniolo]

If you've got loose magnets or some other physical damage causing your problem, riding it might get ugly.

Sounds like good advice. Gonna trailer it to the shop.

[fbn ent]

If it turns out your stator IS bad, if you can afford it, have a Cycle Lectrics stator put in.  Yep, you'll pay more but it'll be the last new stator you'll ever need.  (If you can hold the new stator in your hand before it's installed and you can see the old one, you'll see how much better insulated the new one is.)

PC

[tdrglide]

If you are worried about it, trailer it. You've been around awhile. That said, if you do not have any rotor/magnet problems (do you hear any primary comp noise? ) the bike will go the 39mi to the shop on a fully charged battery with the headlight fuse pulled. I've done it on a weak battery.
I agree about  CE

[JW113]

So much for Harley riders and adventure!


Charge the battery and ride to the dealer if you aren't able to fix it yourself. It will be fine. And after reading the above, I'd say your regulator is bad.

-JW

[Coyote]

So much for Harley riders and adventure!
And after reading the above, I'd say your regulator is bad.

-JW

I agree. I think this whole thread has two things going on. I looked up the specs on the DVM he's using. It's rated to read ACV up to 450 hz. He's taking measurements at 2500 rpm so it's way outside the meters cal range. That's likely why it's reading low.

The regulator is an easy swap and I suspect will fix the issue.

[Hossamania]

I would also just swap the regulator and retest.

[Paniolo]

So much for Harley riders and adventure!

Well my last Ultra stranded me 3 times with fried stators, one of which required pushing it across the Utah high desert floor at altitude and 100 degree heat. So forgive me if my "sense of adventure" is not as lively as you would like,....LOL!!!

[Paniolo]

I would also just swap the regulator and retest.

That may be my next step.

[FSG]

I did have a back up plan though. I duct taped a lawn tractor battery to the passenger foot board in case I needed a Jump.