HarleyTechTalk

Technical Forums => Milwaukee-Eight => Topic started by: cmashark on February 26, 2019, 06:14:56 PM

Title: Venting fix?
Post by: cmashark on February 26, 2019, 06:14:56 PM
New t-man video with a another avenue for crankcase venting.  Think this may help with sumping?

https://youtu.be/ni3pT5aHE4M
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: BVHOG on February 26, 2019, 07:35:10 PM
Saw that as well, going to try one on a 124 I'm building right now. Haven't seen the price yet and while you could easily put this together yourself it is nice to get something in a kit and ready to install.  I think the idea is great.
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: hd06 on February 27, 2019, 02:36:40 AM
  Am I missing something how would it relieve crankcase pressure from going into the transmission. They are two separate animals. I ride in rain sometimes, just my luck and a little bit of oil mist that may make it back to the filter and plug the filter. That white gunk ( oil and water vapor) that i get in my breather tubes would clog that long line that goes to the filter.   
  That is a good idea to help relieve crankcase pressure. I will use a different vent and shorter hose.
 
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: BVHOG on February 27, 2019, 06:48:34 AM
Quote from: hd06 on February 27, 2019, 02:36:40 AM
  Am I missing something how would it relieve crankcase pressure from going into the transmission. They are two separate animals. I ride in rain sometimes, just my luck and a little bit of oil mist that may make it back to the filter and plug the filter. That white gunk ( oil and water vapor) that i get in my breather tubes would clog that long line that goes to the filter.   
  That is a good idea to help relieve crankcase pressure. I will use a different vent and shorter hose.


It's not going in the transmission, it is tapped at the oil fill location which goes down through the trans case to the oil pan
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: Thermodyne on February 27, 2019, 10:19:31 AM
I'll stick with venting it from the breather bosses in the air cleaner backing plate.
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: TXChop on February 27, 2019, 12:03:08 PM
Quote from: BVHOG on February 26, 2019, 07:35:10 PM
Saw that as well, going to try one on a 124 I'm building right now. Haven't seen the price yet and while you could easily put this together yourself it is nice to get something in a kit and ready to install.  I think the idea is great.

I did this on my old 117 build years back. Drilled and tapped the oil fill plug. I see where TMan cant market that though for general consumption. That was after i blew a set of base gaskets out due to HPI's tiny breather hoses choked up the motor.
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: PoorUB on February 27, 2019, 08:13:22 PM
Quote from: BVHOG on February 27, 2019, 06:48:34 AM
Quote from: hd06 on February 27, 2019, 02:36:40 AM
  Am I missing something how would it relieve crankcase pressure from going into the transmission. They are two separate animals. I ride in rain sometimes, just my luck and a little bit of oil mist that may make it back to the filter and plug the filter. That white gunk ( oil and water vapor) that i get in my breather tubes would clog that long line that goes to the filter.   
  That is a good idea to help relieve crankcase pressure. I will use a different vent and shorter hose.


It's not going in the transmission, it is tapped at the oil fill location which goes down through the trans case to the oil pan

Yes, but below the video he makes the comment,

"Introducing our Oil Tank Vent Line Kit for the Twin Cam and Milwaukee-Eightâ„¢. It helps larger motors and high output motors - anything with a little extra crank case pressure - to relieve the pressure out of the transmission housing."

So either I am also confused or it is poorly worded. He probably should have said, "to relieve the pressure out of the oil pan."
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: Ohio HD on February 27, 2019, 08:17:54 PM
Quote from: PoorUB on February 27, 2019, 08:13:22 PM
Quote from: BVHOG on February 27, 2019, 06:48:34 AM
Quote from: hd06 on February 27, 2019, 02:36:40 AM
  Am I missing something how would it relieve crankcase pressure from going into the transmission. They are two separate animals. I ride in rain sometimes, just my luck and a little bit of oil mist that may make it back to the filter and plug the filter. That white gunk ( oil and water vapor) that i get in my breather tubes would clog that long line that goes to the filter.   
  That is a good idea to help relieve crankcase pressure. I will use a different vent and shorter hose.


It's not going in the transmission, it is tapped at the oil fill location which goes down through the trans case to the oil pan

Yes, but below the video he makes the comment,

"Introducing our Oil Tank Vent Line Kit for the Twin Cam and Milwaukee-Eightâ„¢. It helps larger motors and high output motors - anything with a little extra crank case pressure - to relieve the pressure out of the transmission housing."

So either I am also confused or it is poorly worded. He probably should have said, "to relieve the pressure out of the oil pan."

You're confused. The transmission housing is the primary part to the oil pan. It was just a play on words. He can't say drill the oil pan. It is in fact the transmission housing that gets drill, at the oil filler for the oil pan that's part of the transmission housing.
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: JMHD on February 27, 2019, 08:33:51 PM
The oil pan is vented up through the transmission housing through a passage way into the void under the transmission lid then out the transmission vent on the milwaukee 8. Not sure if thats what he was referring to.  :idunno:
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: PoorUB on February 28, 2019, 06:52:07 AM
I know how it works, I was just trying to understand if there was supposed to be more to it than venting the oil pan, or just worded weirdly.

With all the fixes for M8 sumping and transmission oil transfer I was just trying  to be sure how many problems this was supposed  to fix!
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: cmashark on February 28, 2019, 11:45:57 AM
Quote from: JMHD on February 27, 2019, 08:33:51 PM
The oil pan is vented up through the transmission housing through a passage way into the void under the transmission lid then out the transmission vent on the milwaukee 8. Not sure if thats what he was referring to.  :idunno:
that vent you have pictured, only vents the transmission and primary.  The primary via the clutch push rod.  The crankcase and oil pan are connected only by an oil feed, an oil return, and a cast in vent line.  At no time does the engine oil system share air space with the transmission oil.  The oil filler is part of the transmission housing, but when the dipstick is removed only provides an air path through the oil pan area and the crankcase.
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: cmashark on February 28, 2019, 11:48:34 AM
Quote from: PoorUB on February 28, 2019, 06:52:07 AM
I know how it works, I was just trying to understand if there was supposed to be more to it than venting the oil pan, or just worded weirdly.

With all the fixes for M8 sumping and transmission oil transfer I was just trying  to be sure how many problems this was supposed  to fix!

It can only fix a crankcase vent issue, not a transmission or primary issue.  Their air spaces are not tied together.
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: PoorUB on February 28, 2019, 01:45:59 PM
Quote from: cmashark on February 28, 2019, 11:48:34 AM
Quote from: PoorUB on February 28, 2019, 06:52:07 AM
I know how it works, I was just trying to understand if there was supposed to be more to it than venting the oil pan, or just worded weirdly.

With all the fixes for M8 sumping and transmission oil transfer I was just trying  to be sure how many problems this was supposed  to fix!

It can only fix a crankcase vent issue, not a transmission or primary issue.  Their air spaces are not tied together.

Like I said already, I know  how the transmission,  primary  and engine connect  and vent. I was just trying to figure out if they were making more claims than just venting the pan.

I have been around  long enough to see guys come up with  ridiculous claims that their parts cure some problem,  but they are full of :turd: .
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: Ohio HD on February 28, 2019, 03:39:44 PM
Quote from: PoorUB on February 28, 2019, 01:45:59 PM
Quote from: cmashark on February 28, 2019, 11:48:34 AM
Quote from: PoorUB on February 28, 2019, 06:52:07 AM
I know how it works, I was just trying to understand if there was supposed to be more to it than venting the oil pan, or just worded weirdly.

With all the fixes for M8 sumping and transmission oil transfer I was just trying  to be sure how many problems this was supposed  to fix!

It can only fix a crankcase vent issue, not a transmission or primary issue.  Their air spaces are not tied together.

Like I said already, I know  how the transmission,  primary  and engine connect  and vent. I was just trying to figure out if they were making more claims than just venting the pan.

I have been around  long enough to see guys come up with  ridiculous claims that their parts cure some problem,  but they are full of :turd: .

My experience is that Tom Reiser isn't one of "those guys".
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: PoorUB on February 28, 2019, 04:12:44 PM
Quote from: Ohio HD on February 28, 2019, 03:39:44 PM
My experience is that Tom Reiser isn't one of "those guys".

I didn't think he would be either, but like I said the wording threw me.
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: JMHD on February 28, 2019, 04:51:39 PM
Quote from: cmashark on February 28, 2019, 11:45:57 AM
Quote from: JMHD on February 27, 2019, 08:33:51 PM
The oil pan is vented up through the transmission housing through a passage way into the void under the transmission lid then out the transmission vent on the milwaukee 8. Not sure if thats what he was referring to.  :idunno:
that vent you have pictured, only vents the transmission and primary.  The primary via the clutch push rod.  The crankcase and oil pan are connected only by an oil feed, an oil return, and a cast in vent line.  At no time does the engine oil system share air space with the transmission oil.  The oil filler is part of the transmission housing, but when the dipstick is removed only provides an air path through the oil pan area and the crankcase.
If you blow air down the hole in the transmission in the picture and have the engine oil dipstick resting on the threads it will pop the dipstick up, to me that shows they are connected. Just posted it to pass along what i found the other day. No worries. Just passing it along.
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: rbabos on March 01, 2019, 07:45:43 AM
Well, if this vent is for the case basically it defeats the purpose of the breather valves. There should be no need for all of these so called fixes from individuals. That's what they pay those HD engineers for. We had a saying at work. You fkd it up, you fix it. Sadly, this would be an admission to a problem and we all know HD isn't much on admitting to anything.
Ron
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: PoorUB on March 01, 2019, 09:33:34 AM
Quote from: rbabos on March 01, 2019, 07:45:43 AM
Well, if this vent is for the case basically it defeats the purpose of the breather valves. There should be no need for all of these so called fixes from individuals. That's what they pay those HD engineers for. We had a saying at work. You fkd it up, you fix it. Sadly, this would be an admission to a problem and we all know HD isn't much on admitting to anything.
Ron

What problem? :idunno: :hyst:
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: Maddo Snr on March 04, 2019, 01:21:54 AM
 [attach=0,msg1285003]
Quote from: JMHD on February 27, 2019, 08:33:51 PM
The oil pan is vented up through the transmission housing through a passage way into the void under the transmission lid then out the transmission vent on the milwaukee 8. Not sure if thats what he was referring to.  :idunno:

Nah, that'd make the whole vent-valve system redundant. The passageway between sump and motor has three ports: From top to bottom 1) vent loop between sump and crankcase, 2) scavenge return, 3) oil feed from sump up to oil pump.
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: Smarty on March 04, 2019, 08:14:33 AM
Quote from: BVHOG on February 26, 2019, 07:35:10 PM
Saw that as well, going to try one on a 124 I'm building right now. Haven't seen the price yet and while you could easily put this together yourself it is nice to get something in a kit and ready to install.  I think the idea is great.

Just finished putting together a 124 that Randy Torgeson did the SE cases, R&R crank, crank bearings, decked the cases smooth for the cylinders to sit perfect and seal, and deck the cylinders 0 deck. Got it put together after venting the heads and cranked it up. It weeped during the 5 heat cycles I did around the base gaskets. Didn't think too much about at the time and thought it would seal up. (yes, we used sealant on the base gaskets). Had a decent tune in the bike, it was about 45 degrees and decided to run it down the road easy and road it about 5 miles. Got back and oil was standing between the engine and transmission and running down the front of the case from the front cylinder as well. Talked to Randy and scratched our head a little and decided to vent the crankcase in the fill neck. I tapped it, put a 90 degree angle fitting with a barbed hose connector on the other end and ran a hose up to the battery area then pushed about 1 foot of the hose up into the the right side backbone under the tank. Cleaned everything up then cranked it up and let it get up to running temp with a fan blowing on the motor. No seeping whatsoever. I'm like, no way. Jumped on it and ran out the road again about 5 miles and got back. NO weeping, no oil, clean as a whistle. I'm still gonna tear it down and put the S&S oil passage dowels with o-rings on the block just for peace of mind and put another base gasket with sealant on it as well. The guys at R&R say they now build all their big CC engines with the added o-ring dowel and they also vent all the engine fill necks as well because of problems. Hope this saves others the added tear down like I had.
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: rudi_ufg on March 05, 2019, 12:11:21 AM
Quote from: cmashark on February 26, 2019, 06:14:56 PM
New t-man video with a another avenue for crankcase venting.  Think this may help with sumping?

https://youtu.be/ni3pT5aHE4M

This could be an easier solution: https://skarke.de/en/products/oil-dipsticks/with-bleed-and-ventilation-filters
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: Maddo Snr on March 05, 2019, 10:24:58 AM
Quote from: Thermodyne on February 27, 2019, 10:19:31 AM
I'll stick with venting it from the breather bosses in the air cleaner backing plate.

This could well be part of the problem TD. When you look at those two tiny holes (especially with the SE stage 1s miniscule hoses!), it's darned obvious that the factory system is a pressure release system, not a proper dry-sump venting design.

The pressure fluctuations caused by two massive slugs (we're talking about the crank void changing by over 1200cc per crank rev) is NEVER going to be attenuated by those two tiny bleeds, further stifled by the two release valve-plates.

It could be that the pressure wave caused by the action of the pistons is purging the scavenge pump pneumatically and stopping it from picking up.

I've been reading a lot of my old Uni notes about dry sump systems, HDs M8 design breaks all the rules..

Sticking with what's in place now (and doesn't work) seems an unlikely solution.
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: cmashark on March 05, 2019, 06:10:19 PM
Another video released this week...

https://youtu.be/WB4swSegxwI
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: Ohio HD on March 05, 2019, 06:40:39 PM
Routing the oil breather hose back to the oil reservoir and then venting that to atmosphere sounds like a decent plan. Kinda like what's old is new. Old Big Twins vented the case to the oil bag, and then the case also vented to atmosphere. 
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: hd06 on March 05, 2019, 06:49:55 PM
 I'll keep my catch can.
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: PoorUB on March 05, 2019, 08:07:36 PM
Why vent the heads back to the pan? The pressures should be the same. Why not just plug the heads and remove the head vents completely at that point and vent only with his pan vent?
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: Maddo Snr on March 06, 2019, 12:16:17 PM
Quote from: PoorUB on March 05, 2019, 08:07:36 PM
Why vent the heads back to the pan? The pressures should be the same. Why not just plug the heads and remove the head vents completely at that point and vent only with his pan vent?

UB, in closed systems the emulsified contaminants and particulate-laden fumes generally rise to the top of the system, hence the general use of venting in the roof of the system.

For pressure control in a dry-sump system you can vent anywhere, as you rightly say. The HD system is also there to meet emission control regs as well.

p,s, The use of a transmission vent directly to atmosphere is illegal in Australia, how they get away with that is anyones' guess...
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: Ohio HD on March 06, 2019, 04:13:49 PM
Quote from: PoorUB on March 05, 2019, 08:07:36 PM
Why vent the heads back to the pan? The pressures should be the same. Why not just plug the heads and remove the head vents completely at that point and vent only with his pan vent?

Because if you motor is an oil puker, it goes into the oil pan, not the TB or catch can, or all over your bike. 
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: PoorUB on March 06, 2019, 06:02:21 PM
Quote from: Ohio HD on March 06, 2019, 04:13:49 PM
Quote from: PoorUB on March 05, 2019, 08:07:36 PM
Why vent the heads back to the pan? The pressures should be the same. Why not just plug the heads and remove the head vents completely at that point and vent only with his pan vent?

Because if you motor is an oil puker, it goes into the oil pan, not the TB or catch can, or all over your bike.

You missed my point.

Where is the pressure differential that moves the crankcase pressure at the heads back to the oil pan. They should be the same pressure. It would be like poking two holes in a sealed tin can, slipping the opposite ends of a single hose into the two holes and expecting air to flow through the hose.
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: Ohio HD on March 06, 2019, 06:08:26 PM
Quote from: PoorUB on March 06, 2019, 06:02:21 PM
Quote from: Ohio HD on March 06, 2019, 04:13:49 PM
Quote from: PoorUB on March 05, 2019, 08:07:36 PM
Why vent the heads back to the pan? The pressures should be the same. Why not just plug the heads and remove the head vents completely at that point and vent only with his pan vent?

Because if you motor is an oil puker, it goes into the oil pan, not the TB or catch can, or all over your bike.

You missed my point.

Where is the pressure differential that moves the crankcase pressure at the heads back to the oil pan. They should be the same pressure. It would be like poking two holes in a sealed tin can, slipping the opposite ends of a single hose into the two holes and expecting air to flow through the hose.

Larger motors that are run hard need more venting. More isn't going to hurt, it will help.
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: No Cents on March 07, 2019, 04:15:57 AM
   my question is why would you want to dump what comes out of the head breathers back into your oil pan/tank?
I would say 90% of what comes out of my head breathers, which I do run to a catch can...is "water". I do get some oil out of my breather system to the catch can...but it's mostly water. I wouldn't want to dump that watery muck back into my oil pan/tank that has clean oil in it. Last I knew...water and oil don't mix.
   Maybe I'm missing something here.   :nix:  If the oil pan/tank is building pressure...then I would think drilling and tapping the oil fill hole for a fitting should let it vent and release pressure if it needed to.
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: PoorUB on March 07, 2019, 06:07:08 AM
Quote from: Ohio HD on March 06, 2019, 06:08:26 PM
Larger motors that are run hard need more venting. More isn't going to hurt, it will help.


Sure, but this basically vents the crankcase back to the crankcase. The top of the heads is the same cavity as the crankcase and the oil pan. There is not more venting, unless something has drastically changed and I missed it! If i am wrong someone please tell me where the heads, crankcase and oil pan got closed off from each other. :idunno:
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: cherryseeg2 on March 07, 2019, 12:09:42 PM
Quote from: No Cents on March 07, 2019, 04:15:57 AM
   my question is why would you want to dump what comes out of the head breathers back into your oil pan/tank?
I would say 90% of what comes out of my head breathers, which I do run to a catch can...is "water". I do get some oil out of my breather system to the catch can...but it's mostly water. I wouldn't want to dump that watery muck back into my oil pan/tank that has clean oil in it. Last I knew...water and oil don't mix.
   Maybe I'm missing something here.   :nix:  If the oil pan/tank is building pressure...then I would think drilling and tapping the oil fill hole for a fitting should let it vent and release pressure if it needed to.

:agree:

My 120 is vented to the ground and if anything ever comes out of it is more water than oil. 
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: kd on March 07, 2019, 05:42:49 PM
 :agree:  x3
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: hd06 on March 08, 2019, 02:43:21 AM
  I had mine vented to the ground and I was getting that crap all over my bags. That's when I went to a catch can.
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: IronButt70 on March 08, 2019, 09:09:13 AM
Mine is vented to the ground. I save old socks, cut them in half and tie wrap to the hose. When they get oil soaked I change socks. Yes, I'm cheap but there is no mess.  :SM:
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: hogpipes1 on March 08, 2019, 10:10:49 AM
Quote from: IronButt70 on March 08, 2019, 09:09:13 AM
Mine is vented to the ground. I save old socks, cut them in half and tie wrap to the hose. When they get oil soaked I change socks. Yes, I'm cheap but there is no mess.  :SM:

Cheap is good if it solves the issue. Going to do the same today with my XL drips on the the patio. Lots of old socks for rags now 1 more good use .  :up:
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: Hossamania on March 08, 2019, 10:25:35 AM
Compared to the leak from my transmission shaft, my breather leak is pretty minimal. I can live with it.
It's on my list of things to fix. The first thing on the list is ride. There's stuff after that, but mostly I stick with the the first part.
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: hd06 on March 09, 2019, 04:27:14 AM
     Maddo Snr Is there a way you can tie in your gage on the oil pan to find how much pressure or what's going on.   Thank
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: MakoHD on March 09, 2019, 06:15:15 AM
I overnighted from TMAN two oil neck venting kits on Thursday... I installed one on my bike and another on my friends bike. it makes perfect sense to me, can't hurt it'll only help. I do have  a 124ci and I cruise 90mph.
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: No Cents on March 09, 2019, 07:14:24 AM
Quote from: MakoHD on March 09, 2019, 06:15:15 AM
I overnighted from TMAN two oil neck venting kits on Thursday... I installed one on my bike and another on my friends bike. it makes perfect sense to me, can't hurt it'll only help. I do have  a 124ci and I cruise 90mph.

    deleted...sorry about that
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: MakoHD on March 09, 2019, 07:26:11 AM
Breather
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: No Cents on March 09, 2019, 08:31:03 AM
  I would think that set up should work venting any pressure built up inside the the oil tank.
I was more concerned about the video TR posted on Facebook where he taps the heads with a fitting for the breathers and he vents the breather lines back into the transmission case back into the oil tank. I don't like that idea at all. Here is that video.
   https://youtu.be/WB4swSegxwI
   This is the ratio of water to oil that I get out of my catch can from my head breathers. No way would I dump that back into my clean oil like TR's set up is doing.
[attach=0,msg1286164]
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: Billy on March 09, 2019, 02:49:03 PM
Quote from: No Cents on March 09, 2019, 08:31:03 AM
  I would think that set up should work venting any pressure built up inside the the oil tank.
I was more concerned about the video TR posted on Facebook where he taps the heads with a fitting for the breathers and he vents the breather lines back into the transmission case back into the oil tank. I don't like that idea at all. Here is that video.
   https://youtu.be/WB4swSegxwI
   This is the ratio of water to oil that I get out of my catch can from my head breathers. No way would I dump that back into my clean oil like TR's set up is doing.
[attach=0,msg1286164]

That water comes from moisture inside the engine drawn in through the head breathers, TR is plumbing the heads back to the oil tank and allowing the engine to breathe only through the vent back at the fender. The crankcase has to be vented to the atmosphere somewhere and it will allow moist air in condensing inside the engine. When the engine is at full operating temperature it will turn the water back into vapor and expel it back out the vent wherever it is.
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: Heinz on March 09, 2019, 04:46:26 PM
If this kit helps relieve pressure thereby making less oil and water going into the throttle body it sounds like a winner to me. The only thing that is unfortunate it is that it has to be in such a prominent location and can't be hidden better.
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: No Cents on March 09, 2019, 05:40:27 PM
   Billy...that is exactly my point.
Lets say you took four or five short rides and you had TR's venting system. The engine did not get hot enough in the short rides to come up to full operating temp...so the condensation/water that came out of the breathers that you have routed back to the oil tank doesn't turn back into a vapor so it can be expelled out of the filter at the rear fender. That condensation/water then sits in the oil pan and is eventually re-circulated back thru the engine until it reaches a temperature where it turns back to a vapor and it can be expelled out of the system. In the meantime...you have diluted your oil with water.
  I'd much rather take the condensation/water completely out of the mix and dump it directly into a catch can. That way my oil stays clean and free of any added moisture to it. Maybe I'm looking at this wrong...but I do not agree with dumping the breathers back into the oil pan. I do agree if the oil pan needs addition venting...the kit he is offering with the tapping of the oil filler hole should work without issue by releasing any excessive oil tank pressure build up. I will add...as you put more and more miles on the bike that filter at the rear fender will eventually begin to clog and restrict the gases from being expelled. I found that out the hard way on my catch can. That filter should be cleaned...very often.
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: turboprop on March 09, 2019, 06:32:46 PM
None of you guys are from the south. TR was saying he is venting the heads to the oil pan instead of to an external catch tank which he discusses at the beginning of the video. This is done not to relieve pressure from the oil tank, but to relieve the pressure from the heads back into the oil tank.

Those fittings in the heads are not a new idea. S&S does that on their 4-⅛" bore heads (Evo and TC) to get around harley's patent. From S&S, those fittings are plumbed to the AC and a nipple on the manifold. It is pretty common for gear heads to drill the front port (smaller size as it comes from S&S) to accept a ⅛ NPT fitting and run both heads to a catch can. That is how the TC124 in my re/white bike is done and is very similar to how PW has his TC126 set up. The traditional head vents in my engine are plugged. I run a hose from the fitting in each head to a catch can. I also have a line teed into the oil tank vent to engine hose (similar to the setup sold by Fueling). All three of these lines have one-way valves in them. Seems to work very well.
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: cheech on March 09, 2019, 07:59:57 PM
Quote from: Billy on March 09, 2019, 02:49:03 PM


That water comes from moisture inside the engine drawn in through the head breathers, TR is plumbing the heads back to the oil tank and allowing the engine to breathe only through the vent back at the fender. The crankcase has to be vented to the atmosphere somewhere and it will allow moist air in condensing inside the engine. When the engine is at full operating temperature it will turn the water back into vapor and expel it back out the vent wherever it is.
By design the head breathers have the Umbrella valve which only allows crankcase pressure to be expelled, nothing drawn back in. If it is working as designed. At least on the twin cam. Which the video was shot on. Did a double take because though whoa isn't this in the M8 forum,.
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: Vision on March 10, 2019, 08:34:23 AM
Quote from: cheech on March 09, 2019, 07:59:57 PM
Quote from: Billy on March 09, 2019, 02:49:03 PM


That water comes from moisture inside the engine drawn in through the head breathers, TR is plumbing the heads back to the oil tank and allowing the engine to breathe only through the vent back at the fender. The crankcase has to be vented to the atmosphere somewhere and it will allow moist air in condensing inside the engine. When the engine is at full operating temperature it will turn the water back into vapor and expel it back out the vent wherever it is.
By design the head breathers have the Umbrella valve which only allows crankcase pressure to be expelled, nothing drawn back in. If it is working as designed. At least on the twin cam. Which the video was shot on. Did a double take because though whoa isn't this in the M8 forum,.

The umbrella valves in the stock M8 breathers are not very good.  I've watched a builder first-hand show me how air can and will go in both directions.  The umbrella valves are flimsy and about the size of your pinky nail and not very reliable.  For that reason,  I use and external engine breather with a Hayden valve that will only allow air and oil/mist out...  The twin cam design is more solid from what I understand.  T-Man's to mods working together seem like a more set it and forget it solution with the exception of cleaning the catch can by the fender periodically.
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: Billy on March 10, 2019, 02:27:04 PM
Quote from: No Cents on March 09, 2019, 05:40:27 PM
   Billy...that is exactly my point.
Lets say you took four or five short rides and you had TR's venting system. The engine did not get hot enough in the short rides to come up to full operating temp...so the condensation/water that came out of the breathers that you have routed back to the oil tank doesn't turn back into a vapor so it can be expelled out of the filter at the rear fender. That condensation/water then sits in the oil pan and is eventually re-circulated back thru the engine until it reaches a temperature where it turns back to a vapor and it can be expelled out of the system. In the meantime...you have diluted your oil with water.
  I'd much rather take the condensation/water completely out of the mix and dump it directly into a catch can. That way my oil stays clean and free of any added moisture to it. Maybe I'm looking at this wrong...but I do not agree with dumping the breathers back into the oil pan. I do agree if the oil pan needs addition venting...the kit he is offering with the tapping of the oil filler hole should work without issue by releasing any excessive oil tank pressure build up. I will add...as you put more and more miles on the bike that filter at the rear fender will eventually begin to clog and restrict the gases from being expelled. I found that out the hard way on my catch can. That filter should be cleaned...very often.

My thinking (very possibly flawed) is if atmosphere isn't introduced at the head there wouldn't be water/oil circulating there, it would be more of a closed loop there and just circulate the air/oil mist back to the tank and the moist air would take the path of least resistance out the fender breather. It sounds like what you have is working fine and as long as you're happy with it, I wouldn't change a thing. I run 2 lengths of 5/16th fuel hose to a T then down about a half inch below the frame, no filter or catch can and it never has dripped on the floor, but if repeated short rides in cooler weather, I do get some of that "chocolate milk" looking stuff on the dipstick, so I started taking the long way home.  :smiled:
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: rbabos on March 10, 2019, 02:44:58 PM
Quote from: Vision on March 10, 2019, 08:34:23 AM
Quote from: cheech on March 09, 2019, 07:59:57 PM
Quote from: Billy on March 09, 2019, 02:49:03 PM


That water comes from moisture inside the engine drawn in through the head breathers, TR is plumbing the heads back to the oil tank and allowing the engine to breathe only through the vent back at the fender. The crankcase has to be vented to the atmosphere somewhere and it will allow moist air in condensing inside the engine. When the engine is at full operating temperature it will turn the water back into vapor and expel it back out the vent wherever it is.
By design the head breathers have the Umbrella valve which only allows crankcase pressure to be expelled, nothing drawn back in. If it is working as designed. At least on the twin cam. Which the video was shot on. Did a double take because though whoa isn't this in the M8 forum,.

The umbrella valves in the stock M8 breathers are not very good.  I've watched a builder first-hand show me how air can and will go in both directions.  The umbrella valves are flimsy and about the size of your pinky nail and not very reliable.  For that reason,  I use and external engine breather with a Hayden valve that will only allow air and oil/mist out...  The twin cam design is more solid from what I understand.  T-Man's to mods working together seem like a more set it and forget it solution with the exception of cleaning the catch can by the fender periodically.
Non sealing breathers can cause a whole shitload of problems. You'd think they could at least get them right. Not rocket science. If these things are indeed crap, rerouting the vent system to a good known one way valve(s) can have benifits. A leaky umbrella will cause a big fail in how the system should work.
Ron
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: yobtaf103 on March 13, 2019, 09:43:52 AM
To save drilling, vented dipsticks coming to market by Fueling & A1 cycles
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: turboprop on March 13, 2019, 11:02:22 AM
Quote from: yobtaf103 on March 13, 2019, 09:43:52 AM
To save drilling, vented dipsticks coming to market by Fueling & A1 cycles

A1 Cycles is a reseller/distributor. The manufacture and brand is M3, totally different company.
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: Hillside Motorcycle on March 13, 2019, 11:10:51 AM
Quote from: turboprop on March 13, 2019, 11:02:22 AM
Quote from: yobtaf103 on March 13, 2019, 09:43:52 AM
To save drilling, vented dipsticks coming to market by Fueling & A1 cycles

A1 Cycles is a reseller/distributor. The manufacture and brand is M3, totally different company.

Ed, you beat me to the punch. :up:
Mike Beland, A1 Cycles, has a unit the screws directly into the oil bag, and installation takes about 15 seconds.
We placed a nice order with Mike this morning.
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: Buglet on March 13, 2019, 11:58:40 AM
   JMO   I like T MANS  set up a lot better it looks a lot more professional and don't stick out like a sore thumb. Plus it wouldn't be that hard to put one together. How long can it take to drill and tap a hole.   
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: Hammerhandle on March 13, 2019, 04:14:59 PM
Quote from: yobtaf103 on March 13, 2019, 09:43:52 AMTo save drilling, vented dipsticks coming to market by Fueling & A1 cycles

I dont wanna sound like a dick, but that A1 (Mad Monkey) product solves a problem, while creating another. Thats not how making (or reselling) a product should work IMO.

So now i gotta bring the OE dipstick, and a rag if I wanna check my oil level on a trip, and hope that I dont forget it or lose it, nah thats ****in' amateur hour right there.  :wtf:





Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: Ken R on March 13, 2019, 06:57:07 PM
Quote from: Thermodyne on February 27, 2019, 10:19:31 AM
I'll stick with venting it from the breather bosses in the air cleaner backing plate.

Motors that are vented to the atmosphere stink.  I mean, they really have a foul odor after sitting in an enclosed garage or shop overnight.  Reminds me of my old 57 Chevy many decades ago.
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: FSG on March 13, 2019, 08:03:35 PM
99 skins   :scratch:

(https://i.imgur.com/WDrdjbP.png)
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: turboprop on March 13, 2019, 09:16:57 PM
This product is manufactured by Mad Monkey Motorsports not A1 Cycles.

https://www.facebook.com/m3madmonkeymotorsports/ (https://www.facebook.com/m3madmonkeymotorsports/)
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: Hillside Motorcycle on March 14, 2019, 05:15:41 AM
Mike Beland sure as hell, is not "amateur" hour...... :hyst: :hyst:
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: Buglet on March 14, 2019, 07:02:56 AM
  I see on his F B page it says it gains HP and runs cooler. I wonder how much power you gain and how much cooler it will run.
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: rbabos on March 14, 2019, 07:12:35 AM
Quote from: Hillside Motorcycle on March 14, 2019, 05:15:41 AM
Mike Beland sure as hell, is not "amateur" hour...... :hyst: :hyst:
True. Based on this and the trans transfer, that amateur hour title is best left to HD.
Ron
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: BVHOG on March 14, 2019, 07:36:33 AM
Quote from: Hammerhandle on March 13, 2019, 04:14:59 PM
Quote from: yobtaf103 on March 13, 2019, 09:43:52 AMTo save drilling, vented dipsticks coming to market by Fueling & A1 cycles

I dont wanna sound like a dick, but that A1 (Mad Monkey) product solves a problem, while creating another. Thats not how making (or reselling) a product should work IMO.

So now i gotta bring the OE dipstick, and a rag if I wanna check my oil level on a trip, and hope that I dont forget it or lose it, nah thats ****in' amateur hour right there.  :wtf:
I wouldn't go as far as to call it amateur hour but for 99 bucks I would think it could have a stick incorporated.
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: rbabos on March 14, 2019, 08:02:12 AM
Quote from: BUGLET on March 14, 2019, 07:02:56 AM
  I see on his F B page it says it gains HP and runs cooler. I wonder how much power you gain and how much cooler it will run.
You dare question that claim? :hyst:
Ron
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: Mopower on March 14, 2019, 08:23:33 AM
Quote from: FSG on March 13, 2019, 08:03:35 PM
99 skins   :scratch:

(https://i.imgur.com/WDrdjbP.png)

Fueling = $279.00  :idunno:
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: rbabos on March 14, 2019, 09:21:25 AM
Quote from: Mopower on March 14, 2019, 08:23:33 AM
Quote from: FSG on March 13, 2019, 08:03:35 PM
99 skins   :scratch:

(https://i.imgur.com/WDrdjbP.png)

Fueling = $279.00  :idunno:
Sorry, that's just plain fkng stupid.
Ron
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: turboprop on March 14, 2019, 09:57:33 AM
Quote from: Mopower on March 14, 2019, 08:23:33 AM
Quote from: FSG on March 13, 2019, 08:03:35 PM
99 skins   :scratch:

(https://i.imgur.com/WDrdjbP.png)

Fueling = $279.00  :idunno:

The Fueling website does not show a picture of their offering. Have you seen the Fueling product?

Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: Coyote on March 14, 2019, 10:04:06 AM
Quote from: turboprop on March 14, 2019, 09:57:33 AM
Have you seen the Fueling product?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCrXTZvAWAk
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: Hillside Motorcycle on March 14, 2019, 10:27:40 AM
$99 is the introductory price.
Those will be $129 as told.
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: Buglet on March 14, 2019, 10:35:04 AM
    Does it come with a check valve and dip stick for $99.
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: turboprop on March 14, 2019, 10:35:40 AM
Quote from: Coyote on March 14, 2019, 10:04:06 AM
Quote from: turboprop on March 14, 2019, 09:57:33 AM
Have you seen the Fueling product?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCrXTZvAWAk

Ok, so Fueling's is a bit more developed than the Mad Monkey unit. Appears to be three companies offering trans vent kits for the M8, each sort of different.

TR Performance - Requires drilling. Retains OEM dipstick. Does not have a one-way valve. $-???
Mad Monkey (M3) - Does not require drilling. No dipstick functionality. Does not have a one-way valve. $129
Fueling - Does not require drilling. Retains OEM like dipstick. Has a one-way valve. $279

Is this it or is there something else?

If I had an M8 powered bike and thought this was needed, I would probably opt for the Fueling stuff as the price difference between the M3 and the Fueling unit is really minimal in the grand scheme of these this. Having a dipstick and not having to drill are huge. The value of the one-way valve could be a subject for extensive debate.
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: FSG on March 14, 2019, 11:31:04 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/2IeAa1h.png)
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: FSG on March 14, 2019, 11:36:00 AM
if I was needing one of these things I think I'd make my own,
actually what I'd made is a screw in bush that went away to a vent/filter
and allowed the OEM Dipstick to screw back into it
I'd also lengthen the OEM Dipstick so that it would still read correct

NOTE: I also cut the dipsticks on the 5 speeds   :SM:
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: Buglet on March 14, 2019, 11:46:01 AM
     If you take a close look at T MAN'S line it looks like he has a valve in there, half way up the line.
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: Hillside Motorcycle on March 14, 2019, 12:15:59 PM
All but 1 point of purchase display model we had ordered, for the retail counter, are already sold.
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: Hammerhandle on March 14, 2019, 03:15:34 PM
Quote from: Hillside Motorcycle on March 14, 2019, 05:15:41 AMMike Beland sure as hell, is not "amateur" hour...... :hyst: :hyst:
When you fully endorse an incomplete product, as if it the best thing since sliced bread, call out other companies, didnt even produce the product and you're just the reseller, and say stuff like "most guys never check their oil on the ride" regardless of your experience as a owner/rider/racer, you're at best a shill for an amateur. Literally every other product on the market right now, is light years ahead of the M3 product. :slap:

Quote from: rbabos on March 14, 2019, 07:12:35 AMTrue. Based on this and the trans transfer, that amateur hour title is best left to HD.
Agreed. Yet what they have made, is no better the usual "HD fix". Creating a problem, that didnt need to exist, while calling it a solution. HD is the king of that scheme, lets leave that to them.

Quote from: BUGLET on March 14, 2019, 10:35:04 AMDoes it come with a check valve and dip stick for $99.
It meets a price point, and fits closer with things coming out of china, rather than the solutions T Man and Fueling have made.


Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: hd06 on March 14, 2019, 04:12:32 PM
 I think I'll drill the dipstick like T-Man's and put a DK customs I can come up with a one valve and see how much mist and water I can catch. But first check if this affects my warranty.
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: Hillside Motorcycle on March 15, 2019, 01:10:11 AM
Quote from: Hammerhandle on March 14, 2019, 03:15:34 PM
Quote from: Hillside Motorcycle on March 14, 2019, 05:15:41 AMMike Beland sure as hell, is not "amateur" hour...... :hyst: :hyst:
When you fully endorse an incomplete product, as if it the best thing since sliced bread, call out other companies, didnt even produce the product and you're just the reseller, and say stuff like "most guys never check their oil on the ride" regardless of your experience as a owner/rider/racer, you're at best a shill for an amateur. Literally every other product on the market right now, is light years ahead of the M3 product. :slap:

Quote from: rbabos on March 14, 2019, 07:12:35 AMTrue. Based on this and the trans transfer, that amateur hour title is best left to HD.
Agreed. Yet what they have made, is no better the usual "HD fix". Creating a problem, that didnt need to exist, while calling it a solution. HD is the king of that scheme, lets leave that to them.

Quote from: BUGLET on March 14, 2019, 10:35:04 AMDoes it come with a check valve and dip stick for $99.
It meets a price point, and fits closer with things coming out of china, rather than the solutions T Man and Fueling have made.

You need to stop being so happy all the time....... :teeth:
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: No Cents on March 15, 2019, 07:32:01 AM
Quote from: FSG on March 14, 2019, 11:36:00 AM
if I was needing one of these things I think I'd make my own,
actually what I'd made is a screw in bush that went away to a vent/filter
and allowed the OEM Dipstick to screw back into it
I'd also lengthen the OEM Dipstick so that it would still read correct

NOTE: I also cut the dipsticks on the 5 speeds   :SM:


  I'm making one right now.  :up:
I ordered a black #4 AN fitting adapter so I could drill and tap the oil filler hole and a I also ordered a black 90* AN swivel fitting to screw on to it. I bought 4 feet of fuel line hose and I already had a small filter to mount to the end of the hose. I made a small bracket to mount the filter underneath the fascia on the rear fender.
   I have less than $20.00 invested in it so far. I can buy a one way check valve for the 1/4" hose for under $6.00...if I wanted to add it into the hose. I think right now I'll try it without the one way check valve and see how it goes.

[attach=0,msg1287221]
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: Buglet on March 15, 2019, 01:24:07 PM
    NO Cents  I think you have the best deal yet. I was figuring around $20 and if you had to buy a drill and tap you can add another $ 10, Even if a shop wanted to charge you a 1/2 hour labor you still be a head. 
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: No Cents on March 15, 2019, 01:50:00 PM
  I bought the AN fittings off E-Bay. I couldn't find any locally.

[attach=0]

[attach=1]
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: Hilly13 on March 15, 2019, 05:54:44 PM
It's a shame the new head-vents can be problematic, that was something that actually worked pretty well on the twin cam, well after a bit massaging anyway.
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: rbabos on March 16, 2019, 06:15:25 AM
Quote from: Hilly13 on March 15, 2019, 05:54:44 PM
It's a shame the new head-vents can be problematic, that was something that actually worked pretty well on the twin cam, well after a bit massaging anyway.
Depends. I've had brand new James umbrellas that leaked like hell. Ended up re installing the OEM umbrellas. Those seemed to be the best out there. It really is such a simple valve, I don't understand why they would have issues with it.
Ron
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: Hilly13 on March 16, 2019, 07:59:44 PM
Quote from: rbabos on March 16, 2019, 06:15:25 AM
Quote from: Hilly13 on March 15, 2019, 05:54:44 PM
It's a shame the new head-vents can be problematic, that was something that actually worked pretty well on the twin cam, well after a bit massaging anyway.
Depends. I've had brand new James umbrellas that leaked like hell. Ended up re installing the OEM umbrellas. Those seemed to be the best out there. It really is such a simple valve, I don't understand why they would have issues with it.
Ron
I've not had the unit in my hand Ron so I have nothing to go on but what others have said, I tried looking up the parts but I can't find a good diagram to even see what's in there component wise.
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: cmashark on March 16, 2019, 11:08:50 PM
A quick thought from the peanut gallery.  I am in the middle of installing a new cam in my 2019 bike and I noticed that even with the stock cam, these things must have a lot of reversion in the intake.  I was surprised by the amount of oil that had been splashed against the back side of the air cleaner.  The metal part of element, not the fiber part, on the stock ventilator air cleaner.  Makes me wonder how well the stock head vents actually work with the intake sending pulses outward.  My new air cleaner will be vented outside of the air cleaner.
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: rich1 on March 17, 2019, 05:29:24 AM
Quote from: cmashark on March 16, 2019, 11:08:50 PM
A quick thought from the peanut gallery.  I am in the middle of installing a new cam in my 2019 bike and I noticed that even with the stock cam, these things must have a lot of reversion in the intake.  I was surprised by the amount of oil that had been splashed against the back side of the air cleaner.  The metal part of element, not the fiber part, on the stock ventilator air cleaner.  Makes me wonder how well the stock head vents actually work with the intake sending pulses outward.  My new air cleaner will be vented outside of the air cleaner.

I have noticed what you are describing. I have also noticed that sometimes when you shut the bike off it will cough back loudly through the throttle body.  I think that is where the oil is coming from that shows up on the metal part of the air filter. And not from normal running. Admittedly, I could be wrong.
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: bigcraig on March 17, 2019, 06:48:58 AM
While I have the equipment and the ability to install the T-man kit, hell, I can source the fittings and materials and build my own kit, I have chosen to just buy the Feuling kit.

I am at that point in my life where simply ordering a pre-made kit and 15 minutes of work is more efficient.  :wink:
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: hd06 on March 17, 2019, 08:19:56 AM
  If I run with my oil level on the full mark I have that problem of oil in my breather, 3/4 qt. low stops that problem.
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: turboprop on March 17, 2019, 09:27:26 AM
Quote from: bigcraig on March 17, 2019, 06:48:58 AM
While I have the equipment and the ability to install the T-man kit, hell, I can source the fittings and materials and build my own kit, I have chosen to just buy the Feuling kit.

I am at that point in my life where simply ordering a pre-made kit and 15 minutes of work is more efficient.  :wink:

I agree. The M3 vent has too many compromises and the T-Man is too much work (and possible risk). The Fueling system is the best of both. No machining, and no compromises and really the price difference between it and the M3  system is minimal.
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: cmashark on March 18, 2019, 09:53:07 PM
Another thought from the peanut gallery:  Earlier today, I was reminiscing of when I lived in Florida.  I had a couple friends that rode softails.  I remember one day we were flying down 98, from Pensacola to PCB for their Thunder Beach, and one of them had their dipstick blow completely out of the oil tank(lost).  Another one had his pop up but his leg kept it from leaving his bike.  This might be a solid fix.  Are any of you builders finding evidence of poor ring sealing when y'all are tearing down bikes for bigger bores?
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: 1workinman on March 20, 2019, 06:22:46 PM
Quote from: turboprop on March 09, 2019, 06:32:46 PM
None of you guys are from the south. TR was saying he is venting the heads to the oil pan instead of to an external catch tank which he discusses at the beginning of the video. This is done not to relieve pressure from the oil tank, but to relieve the pressure from the heads back into the oil tank.

Those fittings in the heads are not a new idea. S&S does that on their 4-⅛" bore heads (Evo and TC) to get around harley's patent. From S&S, those fittings are plumbed to the AC and a nipple on the manifold. It is pretty common for gear heads to drill the front port (smaller size as it comes from S&S) to accept a ⅛ NPT fitting and run both heads to a catch can. That is how the TC124 in my re/white bike is done and is very similar to how PW has his TC126 set up. The traditional head vents in my engine are plugged. I run a hose from the fitting in each head to a catch can. I also have a line teed into the oil tank vent to engine hose (similar to the setup sold by Fueling). All three of these lines have one-way valves in them. Seems to work very well.
Ed I have a 124 in my 12 Street Glide that the heads are SS that Jim at Mega Flow did ,  those heads are done like that with both heads ran down to the ground , do you recommend check valves on the lines . I was under the impression that the heads had a check of some design in the head . I have give some thought to adding the breather to the dip stick but I think that the vent needs a check valve to keep the pistons from pulling in air when the go up the cylinders or may be I wrong there but I don't see how 
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: 1workinman on March 20, 2019, 06:28:11 PM
Quote from: No Cents on March 15, 2019, 01:50:00 PM
  I bought the AN fittings off E-Bay. I couldn't find any locally.

[attach=0,msg1287302]

[attach=1,msg1287302]
Thanks Ray I knew you would do something that works good . Pictures lol thanks again 
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: turboprop on March 20, 2019, 07:01:45 PM
Quote from: 1workinman on March 20, 2019, 06:22:46 PM
Quote from: turboprop on March 09, 2019, 06:32:46 PM
None of you guys are from the south. TR was saying he is venting the heads to the oil pan instead of to an external catch tank which he discusses at the beginning of the video. This is done not to relieve pressure from the oil tank, but to relieve the pressure from the heads back into the oil tank.

Those fittings in the heads are not a new idea. S&S does that on their 4-⅛" bore heads (Evo and TC) to get around harley's patent. From S&S, those fittings are plumbed to the AC and a nipple on the manifold. It is pretty common for gear heads to drill the front port (smaller size as it comes from S&S) to accept a ⅛ NPT fitting and run both heads to a catch can. That is how the TC124 in my re/white bike is done and is very similar to how PW has his TC126 set up. The traditional head vents in my engine are plugged. I run a hose from the fitting in each head to a catch can. I also have a line teed into the oil tank vent to engine hose (similar to the setup sold by Fueling). All three of these lines have one-way valves in them. Seems to work very well.
Ed I have a 124 in my 12 Street Glide that the heads are SS that Jim at Mega Flow did ,  those heads are done like that with both heads ran down to the ground , do you recommend check valves on the lines . I was under the impression that the heads had a check of some design in the head . I have give some thought to adding the breather to the dip stick but I think that the vent needs a check valve to keep the pistons from pulling in air when the go up the cylinders or may be I wrong there but I don't see how

I have tried them with and without the one way valves. I didn't notice any differences one way or the other. Even did a few pulls on the dyno with and without. Any differences were well within the margin of error. With that, I left them in. I have S&S cast rocker boxes on this engine. From S&S, the 4-⅛" bore engines had a one way valve in the hose from the rear head to the backing plate. My reasoning was S&S put the one way valve in the line from the rear head, my engine has the front head setup the same way. Will add that this engine also has the one way breather valve in the crankcase. All of the online experts said not to run it. I spoke with an engineer at S&S about this and decided to run it. I will say that hands down, this engine is fantastic.  I run the vent lines to a catch can. Have never seen anything more than a cup of water with maybe a drop or two of oil come out.

Bottom line, the S&S check valves are inexpensive and take less than a minute each to install. Try it. 
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: 1workinman on March 21, 2019, 03:41:04 AM
Thanks i have a couple of those valves  , no down side , i going to  add the extra  vent to filler
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: No Cents on March 21, 2019, 11:33:23 AM
   Jim...my AN fittings should be here tomorrow...at least according to the tracking #'s.
I'll snap a couple of pictures of it all once I have it all buttoned up.  :up:
   I've already got the hole drilled and tapped in the oil filler hole for the straight adapter AN fitting, and I have the filter mounted at the rear of the bike, and the vent hose is already routed and ran back to the oil filler hole...so all I have to do is screw the straight AN adapter fitting in and cut the vent hose to length so I can put the 90* AN swivel fitting on to it.
   I did go to the hardware store and I bought an O-ring for the straight AN adapter fitting that gets screwed into the side of the oil filler hole. That should make for a good seal for the AN adapter up against the oil filler hole. I thought about using some thread sealant...but opted to try an O-ring first.
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: wfolarry on March 21, 2019, 02:19:57 PM
Quote from: No Cents on March 21, 2019, 11:33:23 AM
   Jim...my AN fittings should be here tomorrow...at least according to the tracking #'s.
I'll snap a couple of pictures of it all once I have it all buttoned up.  :up:
   I've already got the hole drilled and tapped in the oil filler hole for the straight adapter AN fitting, and I have the filter mounted at the rear of the bike, and the vent hose is already routed and ran back to the oil filler hole...so all I have to do is screw the straight AN adapter fitting in and cut the vent hose to length so I can put the 90* AN swivel fitting on to it.
   I did go to the hardware store and I bought an O-ring for the straight AN adapter fitting that gets screwed into the side of the oil filler hole. That should make for a good seal for the AN adapter up against the oil filler hole. I thought about using some thread sealant...but opted to try an O-ring first.

How is the o ring going to seal when you drilled a hole in a round bore?
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: turboprop on March 21, 2019, 02:51:19 PM
Quote from: wfolarry on March 21, 2019, 02:19:57 PM
Quote from: No Cents on March 21, 2019, 11:33:23 AM
   Jim...my AN fittings should be here tomorrow...at least according to the tracking #'s.
I'll snap a couple of pictures of it all once I have it all buttoned up.  :up:
   I've already got the hole drilled and tapped in the oil filler hole for the straight adapter AN fitting, and I have the filter mounted at the rear of the bike, and the vent hose is already routed and ran back to the oil filler hole...so all I have to do is screw the straight AN adapter fitting in and cut the vent hose to length so I can put the 90* AN swivel fitting on to it.
   I did go to the hardware store and I bought an O-ring for the straight AN adapter fitting that gets screwed into the side of the oil filler hole. That should make for a good seal for the AN adapter up against the oil filler hole. I thought about using some thread sealant...but opted to try an O-ring first.

How is the o ring going to seal when you drilled a hole in a round bore?

I understood he was going to use a NPT to AN adapter fitting int he oil filler. Not sure where an o-ring would be used on either end of that adapter. Or on any of the hose ends. I think we are about to learn something.
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: No Cents on March 21, 2019, 04:16:49 PM
    I'll see Larry.  :nix:  I seen that some of the AN adapter fittings that were for sale online came with an O-ring for the 1/8" NPT end. The one I purchased didn't come with one. There is flat space under the head for an O-ring. I figured I'd see if an O-ring would work and prevent it from any weeping around the adapter...if it does weep...I will use thread sealant on it.

[attach=0,msg1288344]

[attach=1,msg1288344]

Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: wfolarry on March 21, 2019, 05:05:10 PM
Trust me Ray. That 1/8 pipe thread is tapered. If you try to tighten it down to seat an o ring you're going to have problems. Put some sealer on the threads & tighten it down enough to seat. That neck will break if you go too far.
If they have o rings it's for straight thread. You don't want/need an o ring for a taper thread.
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: No Cents on March 21, 2019, 05:07:05 PM
  ok...thread sealant it is.  :up:
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: topcat3815 on March 21, 2019, 06:00:04 PM
Use some Locktite 567 pipe thread sealant just snug it up, do not over tighten it or you will be sorry. Pipe threads are on a taper. The 567 will hold plenty with no leaks.
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: 1workinman on March 21, 2019, 06:25:15 PM
Quote from: topcat3815 on March 21, 2019, 06:00:04 PM
Use some Locktite 567 pipe thread sealant just snug it up, do not over tighten it or you will be sorry. Pipe threads are on a taper. The 567 will hold plenty with no leaks.
Yea that what we have at work, I used it on different fittings works ok . I know no one will approve of this but I was given a nitrogen regulator that I was going to use to pressure test ac systems with around 300 or so similar to what I seen cat do on there equipment . The regulator had been damaged when some one had messed up the female pipe threads in the housing and I tried some sealer and of course the 3000 psi just blew it out . Finally I said F it and red lock tight applied to both surfaces and turned the regulator where the lock tight would not run out let it set up . Tested it no leaks held 3000 psi even with the messed up threads .
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: No Cents on March 22, 2019, 01:18:52 PM
  Jim...here is a picture of the finished vent line into the oil filler hole with the AN fittings.
Larry...I didn't even try the O-ring. I took your advice and went with the thread sealant.   :up:

[attach=0] 
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: kd on March 22, 2019, 01:25:12 PM
Nice job Ray.  Well worth the few dollar expense for the fittings to make it look so good.  :up:
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: VDeuce on March 22, 2019, 01:48:17 PM
Nice job! I have that same dipstick temp gauge on my M8, so would probably opt for drilling and tapping as you have.

Did you install a check valve?
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: No Cents on March 22, 2019, 06:19:26 PM
   thanks kd.  :up:  I did clean the excess thread sealant off after I took the picture. It looks better without that white sealant ring around the adapter.
   I do not have a check valve in it right now...but I do have one on order that will be here next week.
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: Kllongbrake on March 22, 2019, 06:48:29 PM
Nice dipstick Ray, can I get some info on it?
I'm curious what the PCV is going to do for this vent kit. If a one way is installed then why the filter at the end of the hose. It's not going to be sucking in air so why do we care if it's filtered? Certainly I'm missing something. Serious question btw. No smartassing.
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: FSG on March 22, 2019, 08:06:39 PM
yeppers nice job   :up:

QuoteIt looks better without that white sealant ring around the adapter.

run a black sharpie over whatever is left
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: Hilly13 on March 23, 2019, 12:47:11 AM
Quote from: Kllongbrake on March 22, 2019, 06:48:29 PM
Nice dipstick Ray, can I get some info on it?
I'm curious what the PCV is going to do for this vent kit. If a one way is installed then why the filter at the end of the hose. It's not going to be sucking in air so why do we care if it's filtered? Certainly I'm missing something. Serious question btw. No smartassing.

Can't speak for Ray but over here it would be to stop some horrible critter making a mud nest in the end of the hose and blocking it up, also ATM minute there is no valve so a filter prevents any Ingres of foreign material however unlikely.
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: Kllongbrake on March 23, 2019, 05:55:03 AM
Quote from: Hilly13 on March 23, 2019, 12:47:11 AM
Quote from: Kllongbrake on March 22, 2019, 06:48:29 PM
Nice dipstick Ray, can I get some info on it?
I'm curious what the PCV is going to do for this vent kit. If a one way is installed then why the filter at the end of the hose. It's not going to be sucking in air so why do we care if it's filtered? Certainly I'm missing something. Serious question btw. No smartassing.

Can't speak for Ray but over here it would be to stop some horrible critter making a mud nest in the end of the hose and blocking it up, also ATM minute there is no valve so a filter prevents any Ingres of foreign material however unlikely.
Thanks Hilly, hadn't thought about critters making a home. So why the one way valve though if we've got a filter on the end? Not singling our Ray's vent kit either. I've seen another for sale that has a filter and a PCV inline. My real question is why the PCV?
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: kd on March 23, 2019, 06:13:02 AM
Quote from: Kllongbrake on March 23, 2019, 05:55:03 AM
Quote from: Hilly13 on March 23, 2019, 12:47:11 AM
Quote from: Kllongbrake on March 22, 2019, 06:48:29 PM
Nice dipstick Ray, can I get some info on it?
I'm curious what the PCV is going to do for this vent kit. If a one way is installed then why the filter at the end of the hose. It's not going to be sucking in air so why do we care if it's filtered? Certainly I'm missing something. Serious question btw. No smartassing.

Can't speak for Ray but over here it would be to stop some horrible critter making a mud nest in the end of the hose and blocking it up, also ATM minute there is no valve so a filter prevents any Ingres of foreign material however unlikely.
Thanks Hilly, hadn't thought about critters making a home. So why the one way valve though if we've got a filter on the end? Not singling our Ray's vent kit either. I've seen another for sale that has a filter and a PCV inline. My real question is why the PCV?


Overkill, maybe feelgood value?  :nix:   We've had a good discussion here about using "PCV" valves as one way devices in our atmospheric venting systems.  FWIW the "PCV" one way devices are NOT positive devices that fully block flow.  They are designed to have a minimal bypass.  For that reason they will not properly substitute for a crankcase (or head) breather.    :potstir:
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: rbabos on March 23, 2019, 06:31:02 AM
Quote from: kd on March 23, 2019, 06:13:02 AM
Quote from: Kllongbrake on March 23, 2019, 05:55:03 AM
Quote from: Hilly13 on March 23, 2019, 12:47:11 AM
Quote from: Kllongbrake on March 22, 2019, 06:48:29 PM
Nice dipstick Ray, can I get some info on it?
I'm curious what the PCV is going to do for this vent kit. If a one way is installed then why the filter at the end of the hose. It's not going to be sucking in air so why do we care if it's filtered? Certainly I'm missing something. Serious question btw. No smartassing.

Can't speak for Ray but over here it would be to stop some horrible critter making a mud nest in the end of the hose and blocking it up, also ATM minute there is no valve so a filter prevents any Ingres of foreign material however unlikely.
Thanks Hilly, hadn't thought about critters making a home. So why the one way valve though if we've got a filter on the end? Not singling our Ray's vent kit either. I've seen another for sale that has a filter and a PCV inline. My real question is why the PCV?


Overkill, maybe feelgood value?  :nix:   We've had a good discussion here about using "PCV" valves as one way devices in our atmospheric venting systems.  FWIW the "PCV" one way devices are NOT positive devices that fully block flow.  They are designed to have a minimal bypass.  For that reason they will not properly substitute for a crankcase (or head) breather.    :potstir:
Correct. They have calibrated leak rates to match the engine apps.
Ron
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: HDDOC on March 24, 2019, 08:05:09 AM
Lost here, The oil fill vent is to relieve pressure from the oil tank and how much pressure is in the oil tank ?   Thanks Doc
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: cmashark on March 24, 2019, 10:14:59 AM
Quote from: HDDOC on March 24, 2019, 08:05:09 AM
Lost here, The oil fill vent is to relieve pressure from the oil tank and how much pressure is in the oil tank ?   Thanks Doc

I would imagine it would extremely close to the pressure in the crankcase since they are connected by a vent passage, a feed passage, and a return passage.
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: joes124 on March 24, 2019, 10:36:25 AM
 Kllongbrake,

I too had never seen a transmission oil temp dipstick gauge...an hour of web surfing and I found this:  https://www.jescustomaccents.com/Air-filled-Temp-Tranny-Gauge-2007-Pres-all-FLs-Tranny-Temp-Gauge.htm;jsessionid=FB44F6DF5C69F00B7DF1C75D7589B953.p3plqscsfapp004 from jescustomaccents.com (no spaces).

-Joe
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: No Cents on March 24, 2019, 10:37:08 AM
Quote from: HDDOC on March 24, 2019, 08:05:09 AM
Lost here, The oil fill vent is to relieve pressure from the oil tank and how much pressure is in the oil tank ?   Thanks Doc

    In my case...my 124"er does build a little higher crankcase pressure than what a stock engine does. As TR stated in his video...they do this crankcase vent mod on every 107" or larger build they do to release any extra crankcase pressure build up. It makes perfect sense to me.
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: kd on March 24, 2019, 10:57:33 AM
Quote from: joes124 on March 24, 2019, 10:36:25 AM
Kllongbrake,

I too had never seen a transmission oil temp dipstick gauge...an hour of web surfing and I found this:  https://www.jescustomaccents.com/Air-filled-Temp-Tranny-Gauge-2007-Pres-all-FLs-Tranny-Temp-Gauge.htm;jsessionid=FB44F6DF5C69F00B7DF1C75D7589B953.p3plqscsfapp004 from jescustomaccents.com (no spaces).

-Joe


Joe, here's a thread that has been running in the General section for the last 6 days you may find interesting.

http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?topic=108218.0
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: joes124 on March 24, 2019, 12:04:56 PM
KD,  :up: -Joe
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: 1workinman on March 24, 2019, 02:46:54 PM
Quote from: No Cents on March 22, 2019, 01:18:52 PM
  Jim...here is a picture of the finished vent line into the oil filler hole with the AN fittings.
Larry...I didn't even try the O-ring. I took your advice and went with the thread sealant.   :up:

[attach=0,msg1288453]
Looks good , I going to do that to my Street Glide , I installed the SS checks as Ed suggested . I will go back and order the parts that you did for your bike . I have my bike on the lift now to do some maintenance on and change a couple of things that I been wanting to do for a while.  I looked at my exhaust and I think I going to have to remove then or come up with some long drill bits . .thanks for the pictures nice work
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: HDDOC on March 25, 2019, 05:12:07 AM
Quote from: kd on March 24, 2019, 10:57:33 AM
Quote from: joes124 on March 24, 2019, 10:36:25 AM
Kllongbrake,

I too had never seen a transmission oil temp dipstick gauge...an hour of web surfing and I found this:  https://www.jescustomaccents.com/Air-filled-Temp-Tranny-Gauge-2007-Pres-all-FLs-Tranny-Temp-Gauge.htm;jsessionid=FB44F6DF5C69F00B7DF1C75D7589B953.p3plqscsfapp004 from jescustomaccents.com (no spaces).

-Joe


Joe, here's a thread that has been running in the General section for the last 6 days you may find interesting.

http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?topic=108218.0


Thank You
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: HDDOC on March 25, 2019, 05:14:42 AM
Quote from: joes124 on March 24, 2019, 10:36:25 AM
Kllongbrake,

I too had never seen a transmission oil temp dipstick gauge...an hour of web surfing and I found this:  https://www.jescustomaccents.com/Air-filled-Temp-Tranny-Gauge-2007-Pres-all-FLs-Tranny-Temp-Gauge.htm;jsessionid=FB44F6DF5C69F00B7DF1C75D7589B953.p3plqscsfapp004 from jescustomaccents.com (no spaces).

-Joe


Makes sense to me  Thanks    Always relied on the breathers to vent the sump.
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: Kllongbrake on March 25, 2019, 06:37:55 AM
Quote from: joes124 on March 24, 2019, 10:36:25 AM
Kllongbrake,

I too had never seen a transmission oil temp dipstick gauge...an hour of web surfing and I found this:  https://www.jescustomaccents.com/Air-filled-Temp-Tranny-Gauge-2007-Pres-all-FLs-Tranny-Temp-Gauge.htm;jsessionid=FB44F6DF5C69F00B7DF1C75D7589B953.p3plqscsfapp004 from jescustomaccents.com (no spaces).

-Joe
Thanks Joe!
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: cmashark on March 27, 2019, 09:12:49 PM
So I ordered one of the vent pieces from A1 and received it today.  I put it on without the filter and started the bike.  I actually surprised how much air moves through the it, in both directions. Not much pressure, but plenty of flow.
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: cmashark on March 27, 2019, 10:54:46 PM
So, it's only been 300 miles since I installed this stealth air cleaner.  A little wet.  I wiped it down and will recheck it in another 300 miles to see what it looks like with this M3 vent. 

I didn't like the way the M3 was installed by A1.  I really didn't want something bouncing around hitting the bottom of my tank while I rode around, so I cut the hose and put the filter by the ABS module.
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: cmashark on March 27, 2019, 10:56:39 PM
And another
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: cmashark on March 27, 2019, 10:57:53 PM
And the vent
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: Heinz on March 28, 2019, 02:57:48 AM
Quote from: cmashark on March 27, 2019, 10:57:53 PM
And the vent

What prevents water from going into the oil tank?
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: hd06 on March 28, 2019, 03:27:35 AM
  No Cents,  What is the temp difference between the trans and oil reserve.   Thanks
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: No Cents on March 28, 2019, 05:24:37 AM
   on my bike with the 124" T/C I will see my oil temps between 200- 210...depending on outside temps. My tranny gauge will read right around 200.
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: BVHOG on March 28, 2019, 06:12:04 AM
Quote from: cmashark on March 27, 2019, 10:57:53 PM
And the vent
Whether it works or not is irrelevant to how horrible this thing looks on a bike, they could at least anodize them black.  No way I could install that for a customer and feel good about it.
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: cmashark on March 28, 2019, 11:44:05 AM
It's a cheap experiment. I don't think it looks too bad. I do spend more time looking across the windshield than I do staring at the side of bike though.
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: cmashark on March 28, 2019, 11:46:27 AM
Quote from: Heinz on March 28, 2019, 02:57:48 AM
Quote from: cmashark on March 27, 2019, 10:57:53 PM
And the vent

What prevents water from going into the oil tank?

Just the filter on the end of it.
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: No Cents on March 28, 2019, 12:03:57 PM
    I'm not too familiar with the dip stick set up you have pictured.
Just curious...do you have to remove the hose from the cap to be able to pull the dip stick out to check the oil level? 
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: cmashark on March 28, 2019, 04:24:02 PM
Quote from: No Cents on March 28, 2019, 12:03:57 PM
    I'm not too familiar with the dip stick set up you have pictured.
Just curious...do you have to remove the hose from the cap to be able to pull the dip stick out to check the oil level?

Yes.  Pull the hose off (about 2 lbs of force), unscrew the cap, use dipstick, then reverse it when you're done.

Not a huge deal to me.  I average 200-500 miles in a week, so I only check the oil once or twice a week and it's usually a cold check before I leave.  I change my own oil, I know what I service it to, and will do 1 hot check after the oil change.

This setup is the cheapest and least invasive.  I wanted to see how it works before I spend $250 for Feuling's set up or drill a hole in the transmission housing.
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: Vision on March 29, 2019, 01:52:24 PM
I have to agree with cmashark,  going with the A1 was a no brainer.  Very simple design and super simple to install.   No big deal to grab the dipstick out the saddlebag.  It doe not take away from the aesthetics at all; especially if you have a mid frame deflector installed.   I will paint it with some high heat gloss paint and that’s about it.  You can barely see the vent sitting on top of the throttle body. 
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: hd06 on March 29, 2019, 02:54:28 PM
 I would watch for oil mist in your side cover, it will breath.
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: Vision on March 29, 2019, 07:22:24 PM
After installing the M3 Ventillator today,  I went for a spirited post breakout run on my 2018 124 SE/Rev Perf build RG.  I can say this.  It definitely vents.  LOL. I must have had some some condensation built up in my oil tank because when I got back to my garage, I definitely had some streaking on my exhaust shields. It wasn't bad, but annoying none the less because I specifically have a external breather kit hooked up to stop blow by.  What I'm hoping is that when it gets warmer, there won't be as much condensation.
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: cmashark on March 29, 2019, 08:27:22 PM
Quote from: hd06 on March 29, 2019, 02:54:28 PM
I would watch for oil mist in your side cover, it will breath.

I plan on checking after the first 300 miles.  If it looks ok, I'll put it on my wash schedule.  Unless I'm on a trip, I rarely go much more than 1K between washes.  I always wash my bikes on the jack with the bags off so I can give the bike a good inspection.  That'll make easy to check it.
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: Vision on March 30, 2019, 05:27:12 PM
Went out riding today and was able to get a better look at what was going on.  The ventilator was actually spewing oil.  So much until I needed to remove it.   I  checked my oil and added  just shy of 1/2 quart of oil when I got home this evening.   Oil was actually pooling at different point on the bike and I could not see it until in full daylight today.     I will just stick with the external engine breather kit that I have.  Was hoping that this was going to be a good thing for my bike.  There is no way I would route the hose anywhere near my rear wheel after seeing how much oil got out.   Would love to hear what other people are experiencing.

Just a little background on my bike for comparison

Bike was picked up from the dealership last year (3/18)as an HD stage 4.  It sumped in November and I had it rebuilt with the following:   

SE Heads
Revolution Performance 124 Cylinders
Feuling Race Pump and Cam plate
Wood WM8-408 cam
External Engine breather 
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: No Cents on March 30, 2019, 05:54:23 PM
   when you say "external engine breather"...exactly what are you talking about?
Are you venting the heads to the ground...or a catch can? When you say the ventilator (I'm assuming your talking about your air cleaner)...it shouldn't have oil spewing out of it.
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: 1workinman on March 30, 2019, 06:58:46 PM
Quote from: Vision on March 30, 2019, 05:27:12 PM
Went out riding today and was able to get a better look at what was going on.  The ventilator was actually spewing oil.  So much until I needed to remove it.   I  checked my oil and added  just shy of 1/2 quart of oil when I got home this evening.   Oil was actually pooling at different point on the bike and I could not see it until in full daylight today.     I will just stick with the external engine breather kit that I have.  Was hoping that this was going to be a good thing for my bike.  There is no way I would route the hose anywhere near my rear wheel after seeing how much oil got out.   Would love to hear what other people are experiencing.

Just a little background on my bike for comparison

Bike was picked up from the dealership last year (3/18)as an HD stage 4.  It sumped in November and I had it rebuilt with the following:   

SE Heads
Revolution Performance 124 Cylinders
Feuling Race Pump and Cam plate
Wood WM8-408 cam
External Engine breather
not Not a expert on Harleys except spending money , have you tried running the bike a little low on the stick. I run my oil level about 4 or five dots off full hot .
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: cmashark on March 30, 2019, 07:01:12 PM
Quote from: Vision on March 30, 2019, 05:27:12 PM
Went out riding today and was able to get a better look at what was going on.  The ventilator was actually spewing oil.  So much until I needed to remove it.   I  checked my oil and added  just shy of 1/2 quart of oil when I got home this evening.   Oil was actually pooling at different point on the bike and I could not see it until in full daylight today.     I will just stick with the external engine breather kit that I have.  Was hoping that this was going to be a good thing for my bike.  There is no way I would route the hose anywhere near my rear wheel after seeing how much oil got out.   Would love to hear what other people are experiencing.

Just a little background on my bike for comparison

Bike was picked up from the dealership last year (3/18)as an HD stage 4.  It sumped in November and I had it rebuilt with the following:   

SE Heads
Revolution Performance 124 Cylinders
Feuling Race Pump and Cam plate
Wood WM8-408 cam
External Engine breather

16'ish ounces is a lot of oil to lose. That's a lot of foaming or atomization to remove that much oil so far away from any moving parts. Interesting, for sure.
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: Vision on March 30, 2019, 08:51:59 PM
Quote from: No Cents on March 30, 2019, 05:54:23 PM
   when you say "external engine breather"...exactly what are you talking about?
Are you venting the heads to the ground...or a catch can? When you say the ventilator (I'm assuming your talking about your air cleaner)...it shouldn't have oil spewing out of it.

Yes,  venting heads to a catch can.  The Ventilator is the  unit we're discussing in this thread by A1 Cycles.
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: Vision on March 30, 2019, 08:53:59 PM
Quote from: 1workinman on March 30, 2019, 06:58:46 PM
Quote from: Vision on March 30, 2019, 05:27:12 PM
Went out riding today and was able to get a better look at what was going on.  The ventilator was actually spewing oil.  So much until I needed to remove it.   I  checked my oil and added  just shy of 1/2 quart of oil when I got home this evening.   Oil was actually pooling at different point on the bike and I could not see it until in full daylight today.     I will just stick with the external engine breather kit that I have.  Was hoping that this was going to be a good thing for my bike.  There is no way I would route the hose anywhere near my rear wheel after seeing how much oil got out.   Would love to hear what other people are experiencing.

Just a little background on my bike for comparison

Bike was picked up from the dealership last year (3/18)as an HD stage 4.  It sumped in November and I had it rebuilt with the following:   

SE Heads
Revolution Performance 124 Cylinders
Feuling Race Pump and Cam plate
Wood WM8-408 cam
External Engine breather
not Not a expert on Harleys except spending money , have you tried running the bike a little low on the stick. I run my oil level about 4 or five dots off full hot .

I typically put less than what's required,  but this engine build is still under 1000 miles so trying to play it safe for first 1000.  The. Less for sure. 
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: Vision on March 30, 2019, 10:18:36 PM
Quote from: cmashark on March 30, 2019, 07:01:12 PM
Quote from: Vision on March 30, 2019, 05:27:12 PM
Went out riding today and was able to get a better look at what was going on.  The ventilator was actually spewing oil.  So much until I needed to remove it.   I  checked my oil and added  just shy of 1/2 quart of oil when I got home this evening.   Oil was actually pooling at different point on the bike and I could not see it until in full daylight today.     I will just stick with the external engine breather kit that I have.  Was hoping that this was going to be a good thing for my bike.  There is no way I would route the hose anywhere near my rear wheel after seeing how much oil got out.   Would love to hear what other people are experiencing.

Just a little background on my bike for comparison

Bike was picked up from the dealership last year (3/18)as an HD stage 4.  It sumped in November and I had it rebuilt with the following:   

SE Heads
Revolution Performance 124 Cylinders
Feuling Race Pump and Cam plate
Wood WM8-408 cam
External Engine breather

16'ish ounces is a lot of oil to lose. That's a lot of foaming or atomization to remove that much oil so far away from any moving parts. Interesting, for sure.

In actuality,  it may have been a little less.  I had a open quart of Amsoil 20/50 in my garage.  It was probably a little less than half. I had to take another look at the bottle.  It just really shocked me that I had lost that much oil. 
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: wfolarry on March 31, 2019, 06:02:40 AM
Usually when you lose that much oil it's from over filling the tank. You might have had that much in the crankcase when you topped off the oil tank. When the bike's running it's pushing it into the oil tank. With no place to go it pushes it right out the breather. I would try running it a quart low. If it still does it you've got a problem.
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: Vision on March 31, 2019, 08:52:18 AM
Quote from: wfolarry on March 31, 2019, 06:02:40 AM
Usually when you lose that much oil it's from over filling the tank. You might have had that much in the crankcase when you topped off the oil tank. When the bike's running it's pushing it into the oil tank. With no place to go it pushes it right out the breather. I would try running it a quart low. If it still does it you've got a problem.

Thank you, Brother!  Someone else recommended the same.  I will more than likely try it again once I have a few more miles on my new cylinders and will definitely report back. 
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: cmashark on March 31, 2019, 09:56:39 AM
I just took mine apart to look at it.  I've only logged 50 miles on it and found no evidence of oil making it to the filter part.  I cut the hose down to about 10 inches so I could put the filter by the ABS module.

As for oil.  This is my 6th M8.  On the touring bikes, when I change the oil, they religiously take 4 qts and 4-8 ozs to set them at 3 dots down on a full hot check.  My bikes never idle on the side stand and are idled for 30'ish seconds, standing up, at the end of every ride. (I started doing this after my first M8 sumped). I measure the fluids that come out of my bike when servicing and what goes in...  I'm an aircraft mechanic that has always had to do trend analysis.  I also use redline to help identify all of my fluids easier. Not to mention, at 42 my eyes have trouble seeing what's on the trans dipstick. Lol
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: 1workinman on March 31, 2019, 10:32:49 AM
Quote from: cmashark on March 31, 2019, 09:56:39 AM
I just took mine apart to look at it.  I've only logged 50 miles on it and found no evidence of oil making it to the filter part.  I cut the hose down to about 10 inches so I could put the filter by the ABS module.

As for oil.  This is my 6th M8.  On the touring bikes, when I change the oil, they religiously take 4 qts and 4-8 ozs to set them at 3 dots down on a full hot check.  My bikes never idle on the side stand and are idled for 30'ish seconds, standing up, at the end of every ride. (I started doing this after my first M8 sumped). I measure the fluids that come out of my bike when servicing and what goes in...  I'm an aircraft mechanic that has always had to do trend analysis.  I also use redline to help identify all of my fluids easier. Not to mention, at 42 my eyes have trouble seeing what's on the trans dipstick. Lol
6 m8 wow my hat goes off to you that a lot of bikes . is there a problem letting the bike idle on the stand mine only 2 are twin cams and I let them idle a bit to warm up . My late brother was a air craft mechanic , for Emery, Delta, and finally a air craft inspector for a corp jet co . He as like that also
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: cmashark on March 31, 2019, 10:50:51 AM
Quote from: 1workinman on March 31, 2019, 10:32:49 AM
Quote from: cmashark on March 31, 2019, 09:56:39 AM
I just took mine apart to look at it.  I've only logged 50 miles on it and found no evidence of oil making it to the filter part.  I cut the hose down to about 10 inches so I could put the filter by the ABS module.

As for oil.  This is my 6th M8.  On the touring bikes, when I change the oil, they religiously take 4 qts and 4-8 ozs to set them at 3 dots down on a full hot check.  My bikes never idle on the side stand and are idled for 30'ish seconds, standing up, at the end of every ride. (I started doing this after my first M8 sumped). I measure the fluids that come out of my bike when servicing and what goes in...  I'm an aircraft mechanic that has always had to do trend analysis.  I also use redline to help identify all of my fluids easier. Not to mention, at 42 my eyes have trouble seeing what's on the trans dipstick. Lol
6 m8 wow my hat goes off to you that a lot of bikes . is there a problem letting the bike idle on the stand mine only 2 are twin cams and I let them idle a bit to warm up . My late brother was a air craft mechanic , for Emery, Delta, and finally a air craft inspector for a corp jet co . He as like that also

Commitment issues.  :hyst:

On TC's, idling on the side stand wasn't an issue, but M8's seem to leave several ounces of oil in the crankcase when idling on the stand. I haven't seen the left cases of both engines side by side to pick out all the differences in the scavenge areas.  We have tons of builders on here, I'm sure they have though. 
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: Vision on March 31, 2019, 03:47:11 PM
Quote from: cmashark on March 31, 2019, 09:56:39 AM
I just took mine apart to look at it.  I've only logged 50 miles on it and found no evidence of oil making it to the filter part.  I cut the hose down to about 10 inches so I could put the filter by the ABS module.

As for oil.  This is my 6th M8.  On the touring bikes, when I change the oil, they religiously take 4 qts and 4-8 ozs to set them at 3 dots down on a full hot check.  My bikes never idle on the side stand and are idled for 30'ish seconds, standing up, at the end of every ride. (I started doing this after my first M8 sumped). I measure the fluids that come out of my bike when servicing and what goes in...  I'm an aircraft mechanic that has always had to do trend analysis.  I also use redline to help identify all of my fluids easier. Not to mention, at 42 my eyes have trouble seeing what's on the trans dipstick. Lol

I'm glad you're having good luck with it; especially with the shorter line.   The oil volume seems like the smoking gun on my setup.   Is your bike a stock?
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: cmashark on March 31, 2019, 05:58:40 PM
Quote from: Vision on March 31, 2019, 03:47:11 PM
Quote from: cmashark on March 31, 2019, 09:56:39 AM
I just took mine apart to look at it.  I've only logged 50 miles on it and found no evidence of oil making it to the filter part.  I cut the hose down to about 10 inches so I could put the filter by the ABS module.

As for oil.  This is my 6th M8.  On the touring bikes, when I change the oil, they religiously take 4 qts and 4-8 ozs to set them at 3 dots down on a full hot check.  My bikes never idle on the side stand and are idled for 30'ish seconds, standing up, at the end of every ride. (I started doing this after my first M8 sumped). I measure the fluids that come out of my bike when servicing and what goes in...  I'm an aircraft mechanic that has always had to do trend analysis.  I also use redline to help identify all of my fluids easier. Not to mention, at 42 my eyes have trouble seeing what's on the trans dipstick. Lol

I'm glad you're having good luck with it; especially with the shorter line.   The oil volume seems like the smoking gun on my setup.   Is your bike a stock?

Aftermarket stage 2, in my signature.
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: 1workinman on March 31, 2019, 06:15:50 PM
Quote from: cmashark on March 31, 2019, 10:50:51 AM
Quote from: 1workinman on March 31, 2019, 10:32:49 AM
Quote from: cmashark on March 31, 2019, 09:56:39 AM
I just took mine apart to look at it.  I've only logged 50 miles on it and found no evidence of oil making it to the filter part.  I cut the hose down to about 10 inches so I could put the filter by the ABS module.

As for oil.  This is my 6th M8.  On the touring bikes, when I change the oil, they religiously take 4 qts and 4-8 ozs to set them at 3 dots down on a full hot check.  My bikes never idle on the side stand and are idled for 30'ish seconds, standing up, at the end of every ride. (I started doing this after my first M8 sumped). I measure the fluids that come out of my bike when servicing and what goes in...  I'm an aircraft mechanic that has always had to do trend analysis.  I also use redline to help identify all of my fluids easier. Not to mention, at 42 my eyes have trouble seeing what's on the trans dipstick. Lol
6 m8 wow my hat goes off to you that a lot of bikes . is there a problem letting the bike idle on the stand mine only 2 are twin cams and I let them idle a bit to warm up . My late brother was a air craft mechanic , for Emery, Delta, and finally a air craft inspector for a corp jet co . He as like that also

Commitment issues.  :hyst:

On TC's, idling on the side stand wasn't an issue, but M8's seem to leave several ounces of oil in the crankcase when idling on the stand. I haven't seen the left cases of both engines side by side to pick out all the differences in the scavenge areas.  We have tons of builders on here, I'm sure they have though.
it seems I saw a post Max posted about cases but I did not get a chance to read it .  I under stand the commitment part , I tried that a few times and it was a bad idea lol
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: Fat11Lo on April 01, 2019, 06:04:52 AM
Quote from: turboprop on March 20, 2019, 07:01:45 PM
Quote from: 1workinman on March 20, 2019, 06:22:46 PM
Quote from: turboprop on March 09, 2019, 06:32:46 PM
None of you guys are from the south. TR was saying he is venting the heads to the oil pan instead of to an external catch tank which he discusses at the beginning of the video. This is done not to relieve pressure from the oil tank, but to relieve the pressure from the heads back into the oil tank.

Those fittings in the heads are not a new idea. S&S does that on their 4-⅛" bore heads (Evo and TC) to get around harley's patent. From S&S, those fittings are plumbed to the AC and a nipple on the manifold. It is pretty common for gear heads to drill the front port (smaller size as it comes from S&S) to accept a ⅛ NPT fitting and run both heads to a catch can. That is how the TC124 in my re/white bike is done and is very similar to how PW has his TC126 set up. The traditional head vents in my engine are plugged. I run a hose from the fitting in each head to a catch can. I also have a line teed into the oil tank vent to engine hose (similar to the setup sold by Fueling). All three of these lines have one-way valves in them. Seems to work very well.
Ed I have a 124 in my 12 Street Glide that the heads are SS that Jim at Mega Flow did ,  those heads are done like that with both heads ran down to the ground , do you recommend check valves on the lines . I was under the impression that the heads had a check of some design in the head . I have give some thought to adding the breather to the dip stick but I think that the vent needs a check valve to keep the pistons from pulling in air when the go up the cylinders or may be I wrong there but I don't see how

I have tried them with and without the one way valves. I didn't notice any differences one way or the other. Even did a few pulls on the dyno with and without. Any differences were well within the margin of error. With that, I left them in. I have S&S cast rocker boxes on this engine. From S&S, the 4-⅛" bore engines had a one way valve in the hose from the rear head to the backing plate. My reasoning was S&S put the one way valve in the line from the rear head, my engine has the front head setup the same way. Will add that this engine also has the one way breather valve in the crankcase. All of the online experts said not to run it. I spoke with an engineer at S&S about this and decided to run it. I will say that hands down, this engine is fantastic.  I run the vent lines to a catch can. Have never seen anything more than a cup of water with maybe a drop or two of oil come out.

Bottom line, the S&S check valves are inexpensive and take less than a minute each to install. Try it.

Are you referring to the 50-8122 check valve?
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: turboprop on April 01, 2019, 07:41:40 AM
Quote from: Fat11Lo on April 01, 2019, 06:04:52 AM
Quote from: turboprop on March 20, 2019, 07:01:45 PM
Quote from: 1workinman on March 20, 2019, 06:22:46 PM
Quote from: turboprop on March 09, 2019, 06:32:46 PM
None of you guys are from the south. TR was saying he is venting the heads to the oil pan instead of to an external catch tank which he discusses at the beginning of the video. This is done not to relieve pressure from the oil tank, but to relieve the pressure from the heads back into the oil tank.

Those fittings in the heads are not a new idea. S&S does that on their 4-⅛" bore heads (Evo and TC) to get around harley's patent. From S&S, those fittings are plumbed to the AC and a nipple on the manifold. It is pretty common for gear heads to drill the front port (smaller size as it comes from S&S) to accept a ⅛ NPT fitting and run both heads to a catch can. That is how the TC124 in my re/white bike is done and is very similar to how PW has his TC126 set up. The traditional head vents in my engine are plugged. I run a hose from the fitting in each head to a catch can. I also have a line teed into the oil tank vent to engine hose (similar to the setup sold by Fueling). All three of these lines have one-way valves in them. Seems to work very well.
Ed I have a 124 in my 12 Street Glide that the heads are SS that Jim at Mega Flow did ,  those heads are done like that with both heads ran down to the ground , do you recommend check valves on the lines . I was under the impression that the heads had a check of some design in the head . I have give some thought to adding the breather to the dip stick but I think that the vent needs a check valve to keep the pistons from pulling in air when the go up the cylinders or may be I wrong there but I don't see how

I have tried them with and without the one way valves. I didn't notice any differences one way or the other. Even did a few pulls on the dyno with and without. Any differences were well within the margin of error. With that, I left them in. I have S&S cast rocker boxes on this engine. From S&S, the 4-⅛" bore engines had a one way valve in the hose from the rear head to the backing plate. My reasoning was S&S put the one way valve in the line from the rear head, my engine has the front head setup the same way. Will add that this engine also has the one way breather valve in the crankcase. All of the online experts said not to run it. I spoke with an engineer at S&S about this and decided to run it. I will say that hands down, this engine is fantastic.  I run the vent lines to a catch can. Have never seen anything more than a cup of water with maybe a drop or two of oil come out.

Bottom line, the S&S check valves are inexpensive and take less than a minute each to install. Try it.

Are you referring to the 50-8122 check valve?

No idea. Whatever the S&S part number is for their one-way check valve for 5/-16" hose. Do they sell more than one type of check valve?
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: Ohio HD on April 01, 2019, 07:47:34 AM
You can get them many places, these are the same item that S&S sells.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/162363795317

Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: Fat11Lo on April 01, 2019, 09:08:33 AM
Quote from: turboprop on April 01, 2019, 07:41:40 AM
Quote from: Fat11Lo on April 01, 2019, 06:04:52 AM
Quote from: turboprop on March 20, 2019, 07:01:45 PM
Quote from: 1workinman on March 20, 2019, 06:22:46 PM
Quote from: turboprop on March 09, 2019, 06:32:46 PM
None of you guys are from the south. TR was saying he is venting the heads to the oil pan instead of to an external catch tank which he discusses at the beginning of the video. This is done not to relieve pressure from the oil tank, but to relieve the pressure from the heads back into the oil tank.

Those fittings in the heads are not a new idea. S&S does that on their 4-⅛" bore heads (Evo and TC) to get around harley's patent. From S&S, those fittings are plumbed to the AC and a nipple on the manifold. It is pretty common for gear heads to drill the front port (smaller size as it comes from S&S) to accept a ⅛ NPT fitting and run both heads to a catch can. That is how the TC124 in my re/white bike is done and is very similar to how PW has his TC126 set up. The traditional head vents in my engine are plugged. I run a hose from the fitting in each head to a catch can. I also have a line teed into the oil tank vent to engine hose (similar to the setup sold by Fueling). All three of these lines have one-way valves in them. Seems to work very well.
Ed I have a 124 in my 12 Street Glide that the heads are SS that Jim at Mega Flow did ,  those heads are done like that with both heads ran down to the ground , do you recommend check valves on the lines . I was under the impression that the heads had a check of some design in the head . I have give some thought to adding the breather to the dip stick but I think that the vent needs a check valve to keep the pistons from pulling in air when the go up the cylinders or may be I wrong there but I don't see how

I have tried them with and without the one way valves. I didn't notice any differences one way or the other. Even did a few pulls on the dyno with and without. Any differences were well within the margin of error. With that, I left them in. I have S&S cast rocker boxes on this engine. From S&S, the 4-⅛" bore engines had a one way valve in the hose from the rear head to the backing plate. My reasoning was S&S put the one way valve in the line from the rear head, my engine has the front head setup the same way. Will add that this engine also has the one way breather valve in the crankcase. All of the online experts said not to run it. I spoke with an engineer at S&S about this and decided to run it. I will say that hands down, this engine is fantastic.  I run the vent lines to a catch can. Have never seen anything more than a cup of water with maybe a drop or two of oil come out.

Bottom line, the S&S check valves are inexpensive and take less than a minute each to install. Try it.

Are you referring to the 50-8122 check valve?

No idea. Whatever the S&S part number is for their one-way check valve for 5/-16" hose. Do they sell more than one type of check valve?

Honestly I don't know, that's why I figured I would ask, as I am not familiar with the valve you are talking about

I found that number when reading "How Does My New SSW+ Breathe ?" in the FAQ section of S&S's website. I googled it and it looked like it would be used for what you are talking about, just wanted to double check

Thanks
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: Fat11Lo on April 01, 2019, 09:11:46 AM
Quote from: Ohio HD on April 01, 2019, 07:47:34 AM
You can get them many places, these are the same item that S&S sells.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/162363795317

Thanks!!

I found these: https://www.ebay.com/itm/S-S-CYCLE-ONE-WAY-CHECK-VALVE-375-NYLON-PN-50-8122-/192138439939

Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: Ohio HD on April 01, 2019, 09:21:35 AM
Quote from: Fat11Lo on April 01, 2019, 09:11:46 AM
Quote from: Ohio HD on April 01, 2019, 07:47:34 AM
You can get them many places, these are the same item that S&S sells.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/162363795317

Thanks!!

I found these: https://www.ebay.com/itm/S-S-CYCLE-ONE-WAY-CHECK-VALVE-375-NYLON-PN-50-8122-/192138439939

I guess you could pay more, and shipping for the S&S label.     :wink:
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: 08flstf on April 19, 2019, 05:24:40 PM
I saw this on another forum so I'm not taking credit for the idea. I copied and pasted the text but for some reason it wouldn't copy and paste the accompanying diagram, but at least the part number is listed. Was wondering if this would be an alternative to venting the dipstick. If it would work it would be a cleaner looking venting system.




The twin cooled bikes have the plug on top of the transmission, reference #35. Why couldn't you buy the oil return fitting, reference #34 used on the oil cooled heads for $5.50 and vent the crankcase the same way as these dip stick vents do? The fitting is part number 62700146. I have not done this mod and not sure if it's practical but it looks interesting.

Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: PoorUB on April 19, 2019, 07:24:06 PM
I might be wrong, but I don't believe the Twin Cooled have that port machine in the tranny housing. At least not the ones I have looked at.
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: rigidthumper on April 20, 2019, 07:05:29 AM
IDK- parts diagram on Roni's (http://partsfinder.onlinemicrofiche.com/ronnies/showmodel.asp?Type=13&make=hdmc&a=1223&b=27&c=40&d=2018%20Harley%20Davidson%20Street%20Bike%20FLHX%20ANV%20STREET%20GLIDE%20ANNI%20EDITION%20(KX)) looks like some cases get a return line (#34), other cases get a plug (#35) , but they have the same part number for the case.
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: 08flstf on April 20, 2019, 07:12:37 AM
I wish I could have copied and pasted the diagram but it looks like the case is the same on oil cooled or twin cooled. mine being twin cooled has the plug instead of the oil return fitting. If the case is the same wouldn't the people with twin cooled motors be able to replace that plug with the oil return fitting and run a vent hose off of that? That would make it look like it was that way from the factory.
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: PoorUB on April 20, 2019, 07:31:58 AM
I sure would like to know what you guys are looking at. I can not find a single parts breakdown with a #35 plug!
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: rigidthumper on April 20, 2019, 07:45:11 AM
62700150 plug, #30,  HERE at outpostalaska  (https://www.outpostalaska.com/OEMpartfinder#/Harley-Davidson%C2%AE/FLHTKSE_1TEF_CVO_LIMITED_(2017)/TRANSMISSION_BEARINGS_AND_COVERS/1TEF%2f%2f2017/FLHTKSE_1TEF_CVO_LIMITED_(2017)%2f%2fTRANSMISSION_BEARI)
   
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: PoorUB on April 20, 2019, 07:49:34 AM
Thanks, I looked again on Ronnie's and found it too. Harley breaks up some of the parts drawings kinda weird, at least in my opinion!

One would think that would work as a second venting point.
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: 08flstf on April 20, 2019, 09:47:24 AM
Go to this link and scroll to post #22.
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/milwaukee-eight-m8/1278466-fueling-venting-dipstick.html
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: roadcaptain on April 20, 2019, 01:01:35 PM
Quote from: PoorUB on April 20, 2019, 07:31:58 AM
I sure would like to know what you guys are looking at. I can not find a single parts breakdown with a #35 plug!

I am not able to attach a picture here but here is what he talking about:

HERE at Ronnies (http://partsfinder.onlinemicrofiche.com/ronnies/showmodel.asp?Type=13&make=hdmc&a=1168&b=19&c=0&d=2017%20FLTRU%20ROAD%20GLIDE%20ULTRA%20(KGL)%20TRANSMISSION%20BEARINGS%20W/%20SIDE%20COVERS)


[attach=0,msg1293305]
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: 08flstf on April 24, 2019, 03:49:48 AM
Quote from: roadcaptain on April 20, 2019, 01:01:35 PM
Quote from: PoorUB on April 20, 2019, 07:31:58 AM
I sure would like to know what you guys are looking at. I can not find a single parts breakdown with a #35 plug!

I am not able to attach a picture here but here is what he talking about:

HERE at Ronnies (http://partsfinder.onlinemicrofiche.com/ronnies/showmodel.asp?Type=13&make=hdmc&a=1168&b=19&c=0&d=2017%20FLTRU%20ROAD%20GLIDE%20ULTRA%20(KGL)%20TRANSMISSION%20BEARINGS%20W/%20SIDE%20COVERS)

Does it look like the oil return fitting in the above diagram (#34 in picture) would actually be long enough to be in the oil? It looks as though it's on about the same level as where the dipstick sits. Was wondering if you cut a portion of it off so it didn't stick too far down to be submerged in the oil if this wouldn't be a viable vent source. It would be bigger in diameter than the venting systems currently offered for the dipstick location so should be a good vent source, at least in my mind. I'm thinking about ordering this piece to try it, was hoping to get some more educated opinions on this than mine.
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: roadcaptain on April 24, 2019, 09:22:07 PM
Since this was designed as a return oil line the bottom of the fitting may go below the oil level. Since you want to use it as a vent then there should be no reason why you couldn't cut it shorter. There's not much room under the frame so it would make it easier to install if it were shorter.

Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: FSG on April 24, 2019, 10:57:02 PM
Quote from: roadcaptain on April 24, 2019, 09:22:07 PM
Since this was designed as a return oil line the bottom of the fitting may go below the oil level. Since you want to use it as a vent then there should be no reason why you couldn't cut it shorter. There's not much room under the frame so it would make it easier to install if it were shorter.

sounds like a good idea to me, shorten it up regardless
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: 08flstf on April 25, 2019, 04:59:40 AM
Thanks for the replies, I'm going to get one ordered and give it a try.
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: metaliser on April 27, 2019, 04:24:30 AM
Quote from: 08flstf on April 25, 2019, 04:59:40 AM
Thanks for the replies, I'm going to get one ordered and give it a try.
I think this is a smart idea for sure but I'd really like to see proof that all this fuss over venting really is necessary, I mean does it really aid the sumping issue from not recurring. I'd like to see one on the dyno that sumped and then vent the engine and it not sump. Has anyone actually saw this ?
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: FSG on April 27, 2019, 09:47:30 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/6DMLaXB.png)
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: roadcaptain on April 27, 2019, 09:23:05 PM
That's a vent.
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: Nastytls on April 28, 2019, 03:08:41 AM
Is there such a thing as too much venting? Or another way to put it would be, could adding this additional vent to atmosphere have any adverse affects?
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: rbabos on April 28, 2019, 12:56:19 PM
Quote from: Nastytls on April 28, 2019, 03:08:41 AM
Is there such a thing as too much venting? Or another way to put it would be, could adding this additional vent to atmosphere have any adverse affects?
Who knows. I see it as a big mf bandaid for defective head breathers. If they worked well there would be no need for external venting. Venting makes them inoperative for proper function, if they actually seal.
Ron
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: kd on April 28, 2019, 12:59:10 PM
The MOCO is probably keeping it low profile because they are basically venting to atmosphere now and you know who doesn't like that.  :wink:
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: roadcaptain on April 28, 2019, 01:29:41 PM
Quote from: rbabos on April 28, 2019, 12:56:19 PM
Quote from: Nastytls on April 28, 2019, 03:08:41 AM
Is there such a thing as too much venting? Or another way to put it would be, could adding this additional vent to atmosphere have any adverse affects?
Who knows. I see it as a big mf bandaid for defective head breathers. If they worked well there would be no need for external venting. Venting makes them inoperative for proper function, if they actually seal.
Ron


Look at the size of the breather bolts in the head, about 1/16"? That's not much considering you've got two 4" pistons pumping air. Then the MoCo sealed off the main bearing on the pinion shaft with the latest version of the oil pump cover. The service manual says the crankcase breathes through the main bearing. So how does the crankcase breathe with the bearing sealed, through the cam bearing? There's not a lot of room for air volume there either. I honestly don't know what is going on here.
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: rbabos on April 28, 2019, 01:34:55 PM
Quote from: kd on April 28, 2019, 12:59:10 PM
The MOCO is probably keeping it low profile because they are basically venting to atmosphere now and you know who doesn't like that.  :wink:
No problem. They will just buy the guy lunch and a beer, then business as usual.
Ron
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: PoorUB on April 28, 2019, 02:43:15 PM
Has anyone here actually hooked up a pressure gauge to the crankcase while riding or on a dyno?

I remember years ago Briggs and Stratton had a spec for crankcase vacuum while running. As far as I know virtually any four cycle engine's crankcase should have a slight vacuum while running.
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: Rockout Rocker Products on April 28, 2019, 04:10:35 PM
Quote from: PoorUB on April 28, 2019, 02:43:15 PM
Has anyone here actually hooked up a pressure gauge to the crankcase while riding or on a dyno?

I remember years ago Briggs and Stratton had a spec for crankcase vacuum while running. As far as I know virtually any four cycle engine's crankcase should have a slight vacuum while running.
You can't compare a Briggs & Stratton engine to a.... wait..... carry on.
Title: Re: Venting fix?
Post by: rbabos on April 28, 2019, 05:21:39 PM
Quote from: PoorUB on April 28, 2019, 02:43:15 PM
Has anyone here actually hooked up a pressure gauge to the crankcase while riding or on a dyno?

I remember years ago Briggs and Stratton had a spec for crankcase vacuum while running. As far as I know virtually any four cycle engine's crankcase should have a slight vacuum while running.
On my lawnmower the first few starting revs it has pulses of pressure. It then turns into static- slight negative. Only reason I know this is I tried to run a mikuni pulse fuel pump off the crankcase once. As for all, yup I thought that too. V rod has no umbrella valves, only a 3/16" outlet hole in the canister. A few good out huffs on starting and it does mini in and out of the hole from there. One way valving has been tested on these with a hp gain and less oil into the breather box. To this day I have no idea why Porsche never incorporated them unless it was a cost factor for HD at the time.
Ron