Hello all, recently picked up an 82 FXR. Just starting to work on this thing, but wanted your thoughts on oil leaks. This seems to drip below the final drive sprocket, off the bottom of the primary, but the area is oil soaked. Interestingly, the oil dripping looks like engine oil and not tranny oil (tranny oil is fresh and drips are dark). The primary is closed with oil in it, not running the oiler system.
Thank you.
The first thing to do is clean it up as best you can, and try to figure out where it is coming from.
Google "ShovelHead Sumping"
How much oil is in the primary case? They only ran about 6 oz, when stock.
Like Hoss says clean it up and see where it's coming from,might only be over full and leaking from a loos fitting or bolt.
The shovelhead (and evo) breather system is less than ideal. The problem is that until the evo head breather design came along, the crankcases in the older big twins operated under a bit of internal pressure, which tends to push oil out anywhere it can. Ideally you want the crankcase to operate under a bit of vacuum, which holds the oil in (while it's running). I have one of these installed on all of my old bikes, and pools of oil under the bikes is almost a thing of the past.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Crankcase-Breather-Vent-Canister-Chrome-for-Harley-Davidson-by-V-Twin/371855160532
A company called Hayden with their Krank Vent was one of the first to market such a device, but they are awful pricey. This one works just as well and somewhat affordable.
-JW
Quote from: Hossamania on April 21, 2020, 05:05:02 AM
The first thing to do is clean it up as best you can, and try to figure out where it is coming from.
:up: and which hole is getting low , i run red tranny lube just to help too
Really, how bad is it? This is about two months or more of running, less than two ounces lost out of the tranny. In a whole season, 6000 miles, I used about four ounces. Not saying yours isn't bad, but it may but not show up well on the dipsticks as being too low. Makes a hell of a mess though.
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Thanks all. So I should only run 6 oz of oil in the primary? The prior owner filled it but I suspect theres more than 6 in there. I know that shovels leak etc, but the last one I had did not leak like this. Its not horrible, but it makes a mess on the floor, and the swing arm and frame under tranny is soaked.
Dry clutches (lubed with recirculated engine oil) that have been converted to closed primary use about 6oz. Since this is a FXR, completely different primary housing, I have no idea. It does not say in the service manual that just looked at. Do you have the FXR manual? Maybe one of the FXR guys can comment?
At the very least, you can put the bike upright, pop the derby cover, and look inside. The oil should JUST barely touch the bottom edge of the clutch basket, regardless of much oil that is. You're just lubing the chain, not much else.
-JW
Quote from: JW113 on April 21, 2020, 03:34:54 PM
Dry clutches (lubed with recirculated engine oil) that have been converted to closed primary use about 6oz. Since this is a FXR, completely different primary housing, I have no idea. It does not say in the service manual that just looked at. Do you have the FXR manual? Maybe one of the FXR guys can comment?
At the very least, you can put the bike upright, pop the derby cover, and look inside. The oil should JUST barely touch the bottom edge of the clutch basket, regardless of much oil that is. You're just lubing the chain, not much else.
-JW
A 1982 FXR has exactly the Same Clutch as a 4-Speed... look to the Shovelhead for Guidance... if Isolated primary... just enough oil to get some on the Chain.... No fun with oil contaminated clutch!!!
So it seems that the leak is from the primary and the leaks position suggests its leaking from where trans mainshafts exit inner primary. I presume that theres a seal back there? When i checked a parts diagram I was surprised that no seal was shown there.
Thanks
Nope the mainshaft just pokes through a sealed bearing
Well I made some effort to find this leak but no luck. The drips seems to come off the primary where the casting opens to allow the final drive chain to exit. It seems like it mus tbe the trans leaking there, but what mystifies me is that the oil on the groun does not smell like gear oil, and it is darkened, as if it were engine oil. I thought it could have been from the oil line fittings on top of the trans (was wet in that area too), so I took those off and resealed them, but this had no effect. I appreciate any thoughts.
Where is your crankcase vent routed...
and if it has one of those Dorky Filters on it... you found your Leak!!!!
They collect oil over time... then deposit it when you Park!!!
Thanks. It does have a filter on the vent line, but this doesnt seem to be the source of the leak because it is in middle of bike.
I have had situations where oil got blowing around just from the Wind...
Can't say that I ever had a 5 speed HD that leaked at the tranny mainshaft!!
That was more of a 4 speed thing!!!!
But... I have had Primary Leaks.. running Isolated Primaries ..
Quote from: atengnr on May 08, 2020, 05:20:19 AM
Well I made some effort to find this leak but no luck. The drips seems to come off the primary where the casting opens to allow the final drive chain to exit. It seems like it mus tbe the trans leaking there, but what mystifies me is that the oil on the groun does not smell like gear oil, and it is darkened, as if it were engine oil. I thought it could have been from the oil line fittings on top of the trans (was wet in that area too), so I took those off and resealed them, but this had no effect. I appreciate any thoughts.
There are five seals in that area. I will list them. Inner primary case primary bearing, fifth gear main shaft, trans case main bearing, sprocket spacer, shifter pawl. Anyone of these could be the source of your leak.
I suggest you start by identifying which case is leaking. An easy way to do this is to replace whatever fluid is currently in the primary case with ATF that is distinctly red in color. You could also replace whatever is in the trans case with a brown gear oil. When the bike leaks, the colors of the fluid that leaked out will identify which case it leaked from.
But all that, and even this discussion is really pointless in my opinion. Whichever seal is leaking, the inner primary will have to be removed. I suggest you stop screwing with this discussion BS and simply pull that primary case and replace all of the seals. Done.
That ATF in the primary will really clean out that primary drive case and reduce the mess of this project. That inner primary around the final drive sprocket is going to be a mess. Plan to spend considerable time cleaning everything prior to assembly.
Thanks. Probably what i need to do. Its just odd that the oil doesnt smell like the gear oil in the tranny.
Honey colored motor oil, red Type F ATF in the primary, and purple Royal Purple in the trans. Makes it very easy to identify the pools on the floor...
-JW
Thanks all. Could someone tell me what the mainshaft nut size is ? The compensator nut is 1.5" correct?
1-3/16 I believe.
-JW
Trans mainshaft nut is 1 7/8" on my shovel. OP should just replace all tranny seals which can be done without tranny removal. Take primary cover off. I usually replace seals about every 7 or 8 years.
Thanks! Is anyone aware of someone who rents the tools needed for this job? These damn tools arent cheap.
Thanks
In addition to the seal I listed in my previous post, the engine mainsheet seal and engine-primary case o-ring should also be replaced. Yes, the specialty tools required to to remove the various nuts and set the various seals aren't not inexpensive. Some will say, even debate at great lengths of sockets can be used to drive seals in. Yea, they can, but the odds of a novice using a socket to set a seal to the correct depth and square to the bore is not in their favor.
I have every tool needed to to do this job, will not rent them, but can hook you up. PM me to discuss.
If has been apart many times or had a hack get in to repair, be prepared to find stripped threads. Clean out all blind holes and run a rethreader thru to get any old loctite off. I've come across a lot of stripped threads lately and believe dirty hardware was the main culprit.
Hello. Fiddling thru shovelhead pages and found this thread. I am wondering how you made out. Since I also have a 82 FXR and have had the same problem maybe a little advice offered. When i went to attack this problem Basically pulled the tranny off the frame. Pulled the swingarm off the tranny which became a issue. Seems that when seals (outer) and races on the inside of tans case and casting came into play. Mine leaked from day 1 off the showroom floor. Its not from primary since that is supposelly a mist system. That's another story. With tranny out of frame or unless you can do it in frame? (depending on skill and tools available) Inner race that mainshaft shoots through case needs replacing. Also I had to lightly smooth surface where inner race was pressed in. Was not machined perfectly. A little sealant with race worked for me. Same mainshaft used and have not lost tranny fluid since. It is a pain with disassembly of everything but it is doable.