putting new crank in my 2007 rg with 103 bore, head work and se 255 cams, old motor has 150,000 never touched I have low mileage crank ass out of 103 do I need tapered set up
Nope, as long as it's the same vintage series it should work fine.
crank is out of 2011 or 12 103 going to stay chain drive for now
You are going to use new bearings, lifters, rocker shafts & bushings, etc., etc.?
Bearing it up, and check the run out on that crank to insure all is good. I would do it before sealing the crank case, easy to put together and pull apart. Worst case is send the crank to Darkhorse to rebuild, true and pro plug it.
There are guys running real HP without Timkens. You are a bit more than stock so I would worry about it. Make sure the crank is good. Timkens won't save you from a bad crankshaft.
Do a search about that right side bearing walking and taking out the oil pump/cam plate.
Harley added retainer screws later on so there was a reason.
It's an easy fix while it's apart.
thanks for info, will check everything, only doing conversion if problems as my budget is short, hate tearing old one apart as it's still runs good, doesn't use oil but can feel power lose and at 150,000 don't think I should push my luck adding cam or fresh heads
How many miles on your heads and lifters?
liike I said motor is never been apart, I bought it with 19,000 at 25,000 kept hearing ticking around 2500 rpm so replaced lifters and adjustable pushrods same sounds after never touched again, now with 150,000 and makes same sounds( I wear ear plugs so don't hear it) motor runs good still cruise at 80 plus all day long just doesn't have the power to accelerate etc.
Quote from: hihosilver on January 14, 2019, 08:13:42 PM
doesn't use oil but can feel power lose and at 150,000 don't think I should push my luck adding cam or fresh heads
I was confused by this statement, but I think I understand. You are going to do the heads, add a new cam and lifters, along with the new crank. If so, sounds like a good plan.
I do not feel a timken is needed we have built some very high hp engines with out a timken . plenty of shops state you must I disagree if I can make 200 + hp without it and the bike has now 15 K and is at the drag strip just about every weekend . many times the lower HP or felt lack of power is this
This was not about crank sale or brand more so a FIY for guys putting BB kits on their bike we go to tune it and it fails to make the power the other 200+ 110 drop on kits we have
VVVVVVVVVVVV
https://www.facebook.com/559176144113934/videos/358926908250280/
ya at 150,000 I want a new bottom end if I'm going to add hp
well finally tore it apart, at 151,000 the motor shows very little wear I could have added cam and heads and left the tensioners and still done a lot of miles here is a couple of pics
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Just wondering if you did a compression or leak down tests before you opened it?
By as good as those pistons look I think that a comp. test & bleed down test may have shown that your lack of power may have just been in tune?
Better spend money in your crankshaft instead of a thimken setup.sent it to dark horse
if tearing down,doing a Timken conversion is a no brainer.NOTHING gives a multi piece FW assy the stability as the Timken set up.if the HD had a 1 peice lower end the roller bearings would be fine,ive had people argue *how many times have you seen roller bearings fail",well that's not the point,its more how many FW`s have gone out of true that may not have if they had timkens.HD got rid of the timkens to make production costs less,NOT to make anything better,after 35+ years of drag racing HD`s,we know a thing or two about trying to keep FW`s straight
Kirby is making a valid point.
Rock solid stability that is easily established if so equipped to do so.
Profit margins were the goal, and with the loose crankshaft TIR specs from HD, a Timken would lock the sprocket shaft true, then transmit the entire runout into the pinion.
On the flip side of this, and before S&S even had their 124's, they offered 116"s as their large engine.
We built quite a few of those in the OEM case, prior to the advent of a Timken conversion kits, or Lefty bearings.
The ones we have tracked are still in service.
Quote from: prodrag1320 on March 21, 2019, 04:00:04 AM
if tearing down,doing a Timken conversion is a no brainer.NOTHING gives a multi piece FW assy the stability as the Timken set up.if the HD had a 1 peice lower end the roller bearings would be fine,ive had people argue *how many times have you seen roller bearings fail",well that's not the point,its more how many FW`s have gone out of true that may not have if they had timkens.HD got rid of the timkens to make production costs less,NOT to make anything better,after 35+ years of drag racing HD`s,we know a thing or two about trying to keep
FW`s straight
That is the truth, but must be done the timken and crankshaft
Quote from: prodrag1320 on March 21, 2019, 04:00:04 AM
if tearing down,doing a Timken conversion is a no brainer.NOTHING gives a multi piece FW assy the stability as the Timken set up.if the HD had a 1 peice lower end the roller bearings would be fine,ive had people argue *how many times have you seen roller bearings fail",well that's not the point,its more how many FW`s have gone out of true that may not have if they had timkens.HD got rid of the timkens to make production costs less,NOT to make anything better,after 35+ years of drag racing HD`s,we know a thing or two about trying to keep FW`s straight
Any time I go deep into an engine and it dosen't have timkins when I'm done it does.
MIKE
did comp check 6 months ago after riding 1000+ miles on cracked head pipe still showed 150 - 155 psi, with 151,000 didn't want to and heads and cam but now looking at it I wouldn't hesitate, didn't due timkin as I'm not adding enough power to warrant, I just can't believe after that many miles and most at 10 -12 hour days at 80+ mph it's in that good of condition
Tapered Timken bearings when locking the wheels in the left case, should ONLY be used with true cranks, because the C/L on the sprocket shaft WILL be the C/L of the pinion shaft, regardless if it is or is not.
If it isn't, you'll know that plenty soon enough...
I don't know as much as many of these guys, but I would put money in a good crank shaft over Timkens if the choice was one over the other. Timkens won't help a crappy crank.
Quote from: PoorUB on March 21, 2019, 01:13:49 PM
I don't know as much as many of these guys, but I would put money in a good crank shaft over Timkens if the choice was one over the other. Timkens won't help a crappy crank.
never said they would,if the crank is out of true,that must be addressed before doing anything
Consider a rebuild on the crank. That's it. That will get it trued and rod bearings addressed. Balancing not needed.
No reason not to balance the flywheels at that point.
:agree:
Hihosilver, I tried to PM you but your inbox is full. Sorry to bring up the Oil word but I'm really curious....
The inside of your engine looks really good for 150k miles. Could you tell me what oil you use and how many miles between changes? Thanks
Tom
My recommendation would be to do what I did to my dad's 04 Ultra back about 7 years ago. He bought it with 93K miles. We had Darkhorse rebuild the crank with take-off rods from a new crank, and anything else the crank needed with a balance to 95" cast iron conversion pistons. Also added an Andrews 21 cam, converted to gear drive now that the crank was dead nuts straight and balanced, and some light head work by me.
IMO, if you're using it for just riding and touring, keep the lefty roller. Yea the Timken is a better design, but overkill for street use.
Another thing, the OP mentioned budget. No need to go with some of these mods on a street engine. Make sure the replacement crank is true, getting it welded or pro plugged or what ever magic crank builders are doing is a god idea, but if the crank is straight it is probably good enough for a street build, unless the OP likes to hot rod. If it needs to be trued, then go the extra and have the crank guy do his magic to it.
Hundreds of thousands of stock cranks out there rolling down the road with no issues.
Quote from: Mattbastard on March 28, 2019, 09:25:45 AM
My recommendation would be to do what I did to my dad's 04 Ultra back about 7 years ago. He bought it with 93K miles. We had Darkhorse rebuild the crank with take-off rods from a new crank, and anything else the crank needed with a balance to 95" cast iron conversion pistons. Also added an Andrews 21 cam, converted to gear drive now that the crank was dead nuts straight and balanced, and some light head work by me.
IMO, if you're using it for just riding and touring, keep the lefty roller. Yea the Timken is a better design, but overkill for street use.
Would like to know more about these cast iron pistons. Do tell.
Quote from: turboprop on March 28, 2019, 11:55:24 AM
Quote from: Mattbastard on March 28, 2019, 09:25:45 AM
My recommendation would be to do what I did to my dad's 04 Ultra back about 7 years ago. He bought it with 93K miles. We had Darkhorse rebuild the crank with take-off rods from a new crank, and anything else the crank needed with a balance to 95" cast iron conversion pistons. Also added an Andrews 21 cam, converted to gear drive now that the crank was dead nuts straight and balanced, and some light head work by me.
IMO, if you're using it for just riding and touring, keep the lefty roller. Yea the Timken is a better design, but overkill for street use.
Would like to know more about these cast iron pistons. Do tell.
Screamin Eagle has them:
flat top - 22851-99A
high CR - 22661-99A
I used the flat tops, had Darkhorse bore to the 88" cylinders with .001" clearance (since they're cast). They're specifically for 95" conversions with the 4" stroke crank.
Quote from: Mattbastard on March 28, 2019, 05:29:19 PM
Quote from: turboprop on March 28, 2019, 11:55:24 AM
Quote from: Mattbastard on March 28, 2019, 09:25:45 AM
My recommendation would be to do what I did to my dad's 04 Ultra back about 7 years ago. He bought it with 93K miles. We had Darkhorse rebuild the crank with take-off rods from a new crank, and anything else the crank needed with a balance to 95" cast iron conversion pistons. Also added an Andrews 21 cam, converted to gear drive now that the crank was dead nuts straight and balanced, and some light head work by me.
IMO, if you're using it for just riding and touring, keep the lefty roller. Yea the Timken is a better design, but overkill for street use.
Would like to know more about these cast iron pistons. Do tell.
Screamin Eagle has them:
flat top - 22851-99A
high CR - 22661-99A
I used the flat tops, had Darkhorse bore to the 88" cylinders with .001" clearance (since they're cast). They're specifically for 95" conversions with the 4" stroke crank.
Matt, you missed the point. Did you type the original post about your recommendation on your phone? If so it decided it knew what you wanted to say and put in "cast iron pistons" to your description. I'll bet you didn't mean "iron". :doh:
Quote from: Mattbastard on March 28, 2019, 05:29:19 PM
Quote from: turboprop on March 28, 2019, 11:55:24 AM
Quote from: Mattbastard on March 28, 2019, 09:25:45 AM
My recommendation would be to do what I did to my dad's 04 Ultra back about 7 years ago. He bought it with 93K miles. We had Darkhorse rebuild the crank with take-off rods from a new crank, and anything else the crank needed with a balance to 95" cast iron conversion pistons. Also added an Andrews 21 cam, converted to gear drive now that the crank was dead nuts straight and balanced, and some light head work by me.
IMO, if you're using it for just riding and touring, keep the lefty roller. Yea the Timken is a better design, but overkill for street use.
Would like to know more about these cast iron pistons. Do tell.
Screamin Eagle has them:
flat top - 22851-99A
high CR - 22661-99A
I used the flat tops, had Darkhorse bore to the 88" cylinders with .001" clearance (since they're cast). They're specifically for 95" conversions with the 4" stroke crank.
Those pistons are not cast iron.
Quote from: Mattbastard on March 28, 2019, 09:25:45 AM
My recommendation would be to do what I did to my dad's 04 Ultra back about 7 years ago. He bought it with 93K miles. We had Darkhorse rebuild the crank with take-off rods from a new crank, and anything else the crank needed with a balance to 95" cast iron conversion pistons. Also added an Andrews 21 cam, converted to gear drive now that the crank was dead nuts straight and balanced, and some light head work by me.
IMO, if you're using it for just riding and touring, keep the lefty roller. Yea the Timken is a better design, but overkill for street use.
"overkill for street use" (???)
Quote from: kd on March 28, 2019, 05:42:56 PM
Quote from: Mattbastard on March 28, 2019, 05:29:19 PM
Quote from: turboprop on March 28, 2019, 11:55:24 AM
Quote from: Mattbastard on March 28, 2019, 09:25:45 AM
My recommendation would be to do what I did to my dad's 04 Ultra back about 7 years ago. He bought it with 93K miles. We had Darkhorse rebuild the crank with take-off rods from a new crank, and anything else the crank needed with a balance to 95" cast iron conversion pistons. Also added an Andrews 21 cam, converted to gear drive now that the crank was dead nuts straight and balanced, and some light head work by me.
IMO, if you're using it for just riding and touring, keep the lefty roller. Yea the Timken is a better design, but overkill for street use.
Would like to know more about these cast iron pistons. Do tell.
Screamin Eagle has them:
flat top - 22851-99A
high CR - 22661-99A
I used the flat tops, had Darkhorse bore to the 88" cylinders with .001" clearance (since they're cast). They're specifically for 95" conversions with the 4" stroke crank.
Matt, you missed the point. Did you type the original post about your recommendation on your phone? If so it decided it knew what you wanted to say and put in "cast iron pistons" to your description. I'll bet you didn't mean "iron". :doh:
WOW, yea, I meant aluminum. :emoGroan:
I got cast iron on my mind with my Axtell cylinders on my Evo.