liquid cooled heads

[89 fxrs]

Was curious if the liquid cooled heads can be used on a non liquid cooled motor?  And if it can what if any mods would be needed?

[jrgreene1968]

I wandered about this myself. Almost bought a set of new take off heads to get built, till I noticed they were liquid cooled. Would have been a good deal

[Langwilliams]

there are tons of them on ebay cheap so I'm wondering if wet head owners convert over to air/oil cooled because of the common failure of the water pump.

[IronButt70]

The water cooled heads only cool the area around the exhaust valve for emissions. A friend rode his CVO 500 miles home on our trip last summer with no water pump. Dealer told him that riding without the cooling will not damage the engine. I have no idea if that's true but my friends bike has not had any issues since then. YMMV

[BVHOG]

I wouldn't try it, without fluid in the head you will lose heat transfer in that area, nothing good could come of it.  Maybe you could push oil through them?

[Don D]

I just did a set for a customer that is going to try it. His choice and I gave him the disclaimers. We will see.

[prodrag1320]

will they work? yes. but I do wonder about the long term longevity.the empty water jackets wouldn't be the best for heat transfer

[wfolarry]

I wouldn't do it. They put the cooling passage there because it's the hottest spot on the head. Take away the cooling & now it's going to get really hot. Just asking for trouble.

[N456SK]

Maybe you could fill them with water or oil, then plug holes?

[Don D]

Personally I would run an oil cooling loop through a cooler and back to tank. Not a recommendation just a way to get this done without issues. It seems like a lot of work and the standard bathtub works better anyway. KISS principal

[PoorUB]

with the temps the head sees at this cooling passage I wonder if over time, trying to cool it with oil would just burn up the oil and plug the passage. Plus, where are you going to get the volume of oil you need to flow through?

[Ohio HD]

I have no dog in the race at all, but would not try to adapt them for air cooled use. As Larry stated, that exhaust area will see way too much heat. Over time that will be detrimental to the head.

Unless someone has actually tested these theories over a long period of time and miles, it's all speculation.

[kouack]

Maybe you could fill them with water or oil, then plug holes?

What gonna happen with the expansion?

[BVHOG]

There was a thread a while back where someone had ran oil through them with no issues, can't find it though

[kd]

If running oil through the heads I would recommend synthetic because of it's ability to withstand heat.  I expect the may be some elevated temps close to 400 degrees in the galleries around the valves.

[Fat11Lo]

Seems to me the water jacket would end up acting as an insulator and would hold the heat in, kinda like a double pane window ......

[86fxwg]

Wife did the 4 corner tour on a 15 low last year, lost the water pump half way thru, told them to ride it & finish the challenge. Bike ran fine for the next 6000 miles.

Just pulled the bike down for a 110 kit 20000 miles later, needs 2 exaust valves & springs. (There Bent & springs are blue).
I wouldnt do it!

86

[kd]

Wife did the 4 corner tour on a 15 low last year, lost the water pump half way thru, told them to ride it & finish the challenge. Bike ran fine for the next 6000 miles.

Just pulled the bike down for a 110 kit 20000 miles later, needs 2 exaust valves & springs. (There Bent & springs are blue).
I wouldnt do it!

86

  Thanks for that bit of info 86.  I do believe you are the first person I have seen to report on the effects of extended running (3,000 miles) without the cooling operational.  These were likely mostly highway miles with decent air flow too.  I expect your diagnosis is correct because the exhaust defects you report are not common with air cooled engines and heads (or properly functioning wet heads).  I am going to guess that less mass in the casting where the coolant jacket is around the exhaust valve can't transfer the heat away properly and it gets absorbed by the valve and spring assembly. 

[HD/Wrench]

I would not from what I have seen when the pumps fail they kill the ex valve guide and seat . I think maybe you could add some thing like hard blok to it , in the race cars in both iron and aluminum we have used it  works there , Lab metal is another but I think the temp rating  would be my first concern .  Lab metal is more aluminum than anything else

[Hillside Motorcycle]

Was curious if the liquid cooled heads can be used on a non liquid cooled motor?  And if it can what if any mods would be needed?

Basically creating an oven in that area.

[Rockout Rocker Products]

Of course dealers will tell you to just run it. What else are they going to say.... "Any coolant loss you're on a flatbed". How would sales be?
When my water pump went out head temp was north of 350 & climbing (per PV) . I came home on that flatbed.

[Ohio HD]

Well in all fairness to the water cooled design, if coolant is lost, just like any water cooled engine, you need to stop running it. Anyone that calls a dealer to ask an unqualified person at the other end should I ride it, I guess would do the same with their car or pickup truck?

[86fxwg]

Must have gotten hot enough ruin the Crank!

[Ohio HD]

It probably was the cause.  I know that Steve at GMR has seen quite a few of the later Twin Cams with stuck rods in his shop.

[harpwrench]

HD says sticky rods aren't a problem now...

https://www.nhtsa.gov/vehicle/2015/HARLEY-DAVIDSON/FXDL#manufacturerCommunications

Tech bulletin 1HDM5V2A05

[86fxwg]

This bike had no indications of anything wrong! Still cranked semi warm 195/193 CCP.


86

[FSG]

HD says sticky rods aren't a problem now...

https://www.nhtsa.gov/vehicle/2015/HARLEY-DAVIDSON/FXDL#manufacturerCommunications

Tech bulletin 1HDM5V2A05

Tech Article TA0023 2018-04-27 , - Crankshaft Rod Bearing

to be found in the Section

[HD/Wrench]

Right . have a m8 in here that is a factory 114 and the rods are stuck bad pistons show heavy wear dealer tore it down said nope charged customer for reduced labor kicked it out the door. Customer gave the MOCO the middle finger its getting a re built crank by GRC and a 128 kit . its a shame but keeps me busy

[rbabos]

HD says sticky rods aren't a problem now...

https://www.nhtsa.gov/vehicle/2015/HARLEY-DAVIDSON/FXDL#manufacturerCommunications

Tech bulletin 1HDM5V2A05

That is unreal. 50 shades of denial.
Ron

[cheech]

HD says sticky rods aren't a problem now...

https://www.nhtsa.gov/vehicle/2015/HARLEY-DAVIDSON/FXDL#manufacturerCommunications

Tech bulletin 1HDM5V2A05

That is unreal. 50 shades of denial.
Ron

I thought the same thing when I read it. Tight tolerances and slight out of roundness in the bore create "zones of resistance" that is felt when the rods are moved by hand. No performance or durability concern.    Yeah OK

Next the pistons will be seizing in the bore, stopping the engine cold.
They'll be like; "Um It's the tight tolerances."
Customer; But it doesn't run!
Them; "There is no performance or durability concern"
Leaked TSB on the situation all over the net.
Every Service Writer at the dealers; "We've never seen this situation." 

[crowgo]

Yes, it's the hottest spot on the head. Water Cooled because of that, IMO not so. MOCO water cooled because they couldn't meet emission standards without leaning the mix and therefore increasing the temp even more.
If you can't meet emissions, don't lean it to achieve the standard. Didn't some auto manufacturers run double plugs to achieve standards? Aircraft engines run double plugs not only for redundancy but for a more efficient burn. Ever price a plug for a Beechcraft?

[86fxwg]

HD says sticky rods aren't a problem now...

https://www.nhtsa.gov/vehicle/2015/HARLEY-DAVIDSON/FXDL#manufacturerCommunications

Tech bulletin 1HDM5V2A05

That is unreal. 50 shades of denial.
Ron

Every Service Writer at the dealers; "We've never seen this situation." 

The exact reply i just got from our local service writer!


86

[Hilly13]

Right . have a m8 in here that is a factory 114 and the rods are stuck bad pistons show heavy wear dealer tore it down said nope charged customer for reduced labor kicked it out the door. Customer gave the MOCO the middle finger its getting a re built crank by GRC and a 128 kit . its a shame but keeps me busy

That's disappointing, here I was thinking the crank was something they had actually improved from the twin cam!

[PoorUB]

That's disappointing, here I was thinking the crank was something they had actually improved from the twin cam!

[Clayton24]

I kno this is against all of the people with the exsperience ! But i did put a set of twin cooled SE cnc heads on my brothers 15 streetglide . I already had the heads sitting around so i figured wth! Lol i geuss time will tell its 103" with s&s 585 cams and fuel moto breather and gutted head pipe with mellows i geuss time will tell but i do kno its pushing it with the cooling effects . It runs good so far but realy no mileage yet to kno. I just thought i would share the info . Thanks

[HD/Wrench]

HD says sticky rods aren't a problem now...

https://www.nhtsa.gov/vehicle/2015/HARLEY-DAVIDSON/FXDL#manufacturerCommunications

Tech bulletin 1HDM5V2A05

That is unreal. 50 shades of denial.
Ron

Just installed a 128 kit on a CVO 114 bike . Hd told this guy the same thing  The rods where very bad. Owner refused to replace/ rebuild crank so no warranty on my end it ran very well did not get hot fast made very good power . No idea how long it will last but  475 cam stock heads stock tb 121/141 with a Trask nasty bastard short dump pipe and had a very good curve

[jrgreene1968]

I wandered about those short side dump pipes. I like the looks, but figured they were power robbers. I had a chance to get one awhile back, don't remember the brand.. almost bought it, but figured I was waiting my time and money if I did.