I was choking on paying $15+ a quart (including tax and shipping) for quality 20w-60 redline, 60wt amsoil etc etc etc and started looking for high quality oils. I came across LIQUI MOLI being used in motorcycle racing and off road racing and I kept seeing this oil popping up in baja, dakar, rallies, LeMans and european races... I started to investigate this oil and found it being in m-type bmw's and some other european sports cars from the factories...
Then I found it at NAPA! It is $8.52 a quart if purchased 5 liters at a time! Anyone else know of a 100% synthetic 60wt under $9 a quart including tax?
Memphis summers are brutal on twin cams. The quietest twin cams I have been around are running amsoil 60 wt and 20w-60 redline.
No I don't want to start an arguement about 60wt oil, I will just say Eric Buell uses 60wt and oil in their racebikes and SEVERAL endurance twins with major records from multiple manufacturers run 20w-60. To my ears in my bikes the 60wt and 20w-60 oil is definitely quieter when the temps are over 90*...
However even here in Memphis we only have those temps for 3 months... The nighttime temps are down in the 50's-60's for 6 more months and high's in the 80's and 90's. This requires changing the oil every 3 months to meet the MOCO's suggestions.
100% synthetic, SL rated, Euro A3 and B4 ratings, CF rated as well (that's for old dirty diesels!) 8000km(5000mile) change interval,
60wt cushion for a quiet top end and 10wt flow for quick lubrication properties at start up... :teeth:
Has anyone heard of or used this oil? Sure seems like it might be a great year round oil for us Southerners.
I ordered 5 liters of it to try out and send to blackstone come the next 5000 miles service.
All right everyone let me know what I am missing? What have I overlooked? Let me know what I am doing wrong. :potstir:
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I have heard of it and I know the Beamer guys use it.
I too use Amsoil 60wt and it does seem to make for a quieter valve train in the summer months.
I did a google search looking for the Liqui Moly 10W60 synthetic oil and it seemed nobody had it locally in any of the auto parts store. I was willing to try it...if I could find it.
I will stroll into the Napa store tomorrow and see if they have it...or see if they have any in their warehouse. If they do for that price...I'll buy some and give it a try.
Thanks for the heads up on where it can possibly be had :up:
Ray
I have an M3 and it's what I run in it. Much cheaper than the Castrol TWS!
I have ran it in my bike in the colder weather due to the 10w rating and can't say anything negative about it.
I don't use it when the weather gets hot tho, I stick with plain ole VR1 50 or 60w.
It is one of the premium oils marketed in Europe. It meets all Mercedes, Porch, Audi, BMW specs for very long change intervals. I have used it before too.
What is napas stock #
Found it online for 38.95 at autopartsdistributors.org
I am interested because it will work in the duramax too
Surprisingly my local Napa store had six 1 litre bottles of the Liqui Moly 10W60 synthetic sitting on the shelf for $11.99 a bottle.
I asked him about the 5 litre jug and he said let me check. He came back and said I can have one here tomorrow morning by 8AM for $49.99. I told him I'd take one.
I rode the bike straight home and put it up on the lift to drain the oil. I'm going to let the old oil drain out real good sitting over night.
I'll let's you's know in the next few days if I can actually hear a difference in my valve train running this Liqui Moly 10W60 syn over the Mobil 1 15W50 syn that I drained out.
Ray
Ray, note oil temps as well. :oil:
John...you got it! :up:
Ray
Napa has the 5 liter on sale $45 liters[attachimg=1] $10.80[attachimg=2]
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:up:
thanks!
I went to Napa online and printed out the same thing you posted to take with me in the morning when I go to pick mine up.
They quoted me $49.99..but apparently the guy didn't know it's on sale right now.
Hey 5 bucks...is 5 bucks...right!
Ray
Can't wait to hear your results Ray!
I will be changing over to try the new oil on Saturday.
We'll see how it compare to straight 50 weight in the heat.
Check out this price!
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00CPL918E/ref=asc_df_B00CPL918E3218925?smid=A1BB0GDPEIAGXP&tag=pgmp-46-100-20&linkCode=df0&creative=395109&creativeASIN=B00CPL918E (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00CPL918E/ref=asc_df_B00CPL918E3218925?smid=A1BB0GDPEIAGXP&tag=pgmp-46-100-20&linkCode=df0&creative=395109&creativeASIN=B00CPL918E)
Quote from: Jaycee1964 on July 15, 2014, 06:41:41 PM
Check out this price!
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00CPL918E/ref=asc_df_B00CPL918E3218925?smid=A1BB0GDPEIAGXP&tag=pgmp-46-100-20&linkCode=df0&creative=395109&creativeASIN=B00CPL918E (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00CPL918E/ref=asc_df_B00CPL918E3218925?smid=A1BB0GDPEIAGXP&tag=pgmp-46-100-20&linkCode=df0&creative=395109&creativeASIN=B00CPL918E)
Great price but shipping is over $15+ :) Cheaper at Napa including tax. LOL
:agree: I just noticed that.. ug. always a catch. but luckily I had $20 worth of points on my Amazon card and applied it. Got it for $30 shipped. I'll try it. I'm heading from NH to WV next Wednesday a.m. and will do about 1600 miles that week including play riddin' :wink: I'll post how I like it too.
Hard to find here in Oz as they have preferred stockists which equates to PIA, but I did find it nearby.
Oz $89.95 for a 5L Jug // $18/L , maybe I'll give it a try when my Mobil1 V-Twin stock diminishes.
(http://i.imgur.com/WVrPW3L.png)
Thanks for the tip! Can get it at Napa here for $43.66
I have a question. What is it that makes an oil "for air cooled V-Twin engines"? Are there additives? Is it really different than regular syn oil? I wonder because Amsoil and Redline both have 20-60 "regular" and "air cooled" versions available. Well, at least in the 20-50 versions.
Quote from: DOM on July 16, 2014, 06:06:43 AM
I have a question. What is it that makes an oil "for air cooled V-Twin engines"? Are there additives? Is it really different than regular syn oil? I wonder because Amsoil and Redline both have 20-60 "regular" and "air cooled" versions available. Well, at least in the 20-50 versions.
For a Harley the Anti-foam is the biggest IMO. Nothing like pulling the cap off and seeing a sea of foam in the tank.
went by Napa and picked me up some for the 120" !!
Any spec sheets on oil would like to see what the additive numbers are i.e Zinc.
also would like to know if its a ester base
Quote from: itsafatboy on July 16, 2014, 11:16:05 AM
Any spec sheets on oil would like to see what the additive numbers are i.e Zinc.
also would like to know if its a ester base
www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2377569 (http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2377569)
My 1st impressions of the 10W60 Liqui Moly is a good one. More testing is needed to see if I actually found a permanent oil to switch to.
The bike did seem to be a touch quieter in the valve train upon start up after I changed my oil yesterday.
I rode the bike into work this morning and I checked the digital dip stick I have when I got to the shop. Now...it was a fairly cool morning out...but the dip stick only read 184*.
Normally I would see my oil temp's in the low to mid 190* area on my morning rides into work.
I will take a long slow ride home today after work to note what the temp's are I see.
I have been seeing my normal oil temps in the 220*- 230* range without the use of my cooling fans. This was with running the 15W50 Mobil 1 syn.
Ray
I Too will try it.
I ordered from Amazon 5 ltr. 10w/60for 46$ plus tax.
Being a PRIME member, I get Free two day shipping.
Nice for out-back Az.
Not too good IF I were in Oz... :hyst:
I DO use Redline, just ordered it by the case... 20/50 is okay $$ wise but the 20/60 is a gouge.$$$$..
I decided to use this new oil in my air-cooled welder. The Redline has worked so well for years in my bikes, It IS hard to change this late in the game.
signed....BUBBIE
I would like to know more about the "moly" additive in this stuff. Moly is great for pins and bushings and okay in gun barrels to a point. But not recommened for most ball or roller bearings.
I know one race engine company (mostly V8's) that will tell every new customer not to use oils with moly. They have seen it sitting like mud in the bottom of the pan after a summer race season.
Maybe these hot running v-twins of ours will keep it blended?
Dont think this has a moly additive in it , they have some oil that does but not sold here from what i saw.
Quote from: itsafatboy on July 17, 2014, 02:57:17 PM
Dont think this has a moly additive in it , they have some oil that does but not sold here from what i saw.
That link I posted shows an average of 57 ppm of molybdenum.
I took a little longer extended ride home on the way home to make sure I brought the engine up to it's full operating temp.
I had no cooling fans turned on and the dip stick read 204* when I parked it in the barn.
This was a little cooler day than average...the outside temp today on my ride home was only 79*.
I'll keep logging oil temp's for the next week or so. It's suppose to be getting hotter as the week goes on.
Ray
:missed:
I Can't see where they use much Moly in the oil...? There is a chart I'll look, ThumperDeuce had it post #23
seems More additives are in the German oil.. Good or Bad :idunno:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2377569 (http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2377569)
signed....BUBBIE
self edited
that link Thumper posted was for 0w40 Luqui Moly.
I wonder if the 10w60 has the same ingredients as the 0w40?
Ray
Called local NAPA shop here in Atlantic Canada and they want $90.00 for 5 qt. jug.
Even worse - $25.00 a quart!
At these prices will not be trying it any time soon.
Quote from: billqbiker on July 17, 2014, 03:21:58 PM
Called local NAPA shop here in Atlantic Canada and they want $90.00 for 5 qt. jug.
Even worse - $25.00 a quart!
At these prices will not be trying it any time soon.
Yes same thing I was told on Monday when I asked, told the guy about the price in the states and he informed me they are not the same NAPA in Canada they are actually just a affiliate flying the NAPA banner. That was his explanation for the extreme price difference. Bob
Shocked! I ordered a 5ltr bottle 2 days ago on Amazon and it's already in my hands. It goes in tomorrow after work. I can't believe I'm falling for another oil thread... :emoGroan: LOL
Quote from: No Cents on July 17, 2014, 03:13:45 PM
I took a little longer extended ride home on the way home to make sure I brought the engine up to it's full operating temp.
I had no cooling fans turned on and the dip stick read 204* when I parked it in the barn.
This was a little cooler day than average...the outside temp today on my ride home was only 79*.
I'll keep logging oil temp's for the next week or so. It's suppose to be getting hotter as the week goes on.
Ray
Hey Ray. Did you notice any reduction of oil pressure mostly at hot idle?
here's a little more of an update.
I went to the Quaker State and Lube bike night tonight. I went with three other friends and we had a good time.
I might of drank three or four beers tonight :beer: and felt a little braver. I pretty much tested and tuned the old Duracell a few times on the ride home...got a little air time and shredded a little back tire :banghead:
I pulled it into the barn at the end of the night...and my oil temp was only 204*. :nix:
I have to do a little more testing...but I'm liking the 10w60 so far.
Ray
This brand of oil comes highly reccommended in the VW Audi and german car aftermarket
Quote from: 03NhHarley on July 17, 2014, 06:22:57 PM
Quote from: No Cents on July 17, 2014, 03:13:45 PM
I took a little longer extended ride home on the way home to make sure I brought the engine up to it's full operating temp.
I had no cooling fans turned on and the dip stick read 204* when I parked it in the barn.
This was a little cooler day than average...the outside temp today on my ride home was only 79*.
I'll keep logging oil temp's for the next week or so. It's suppose to be getting hotter as the week goes on.
Ray
Hey Ray. Did you notice any reduction of oil pressure mostly at hot idle?
no...my oil pressure has stayed the same.
Ray
Quote from: misfitJason on July 17, 2014, 08:44:32 PM
This brand of oil comes highly reccommended in the VW Audi and german car aftermarket
Not on forums for an M3. You almost get shunned for running anything other than Castrol TWS in an S54.
I haven't performed any in the field oil research but how or where does this oil reduce the temps in your engine? Combustion temps and pressures haven't changed. We all know that the a piston receives its primary cooling from the transfer heat through the rings to the cylinder wall . So is the high lubricity oil reducing the friction on the cylinder wall and is the piston getting hotter than before because it can't efficiently shed its high temps or what? Ponderous
Quote from: gordonr on July 18, 2014, 04:01:30 AM
I haven't performed any in the field oil research but how or where does this oil reduce the temps in your engine? Combustion temps and pressures haven't changed. We all know that the a piston receives its primary cooling from the transfer heat through the rings to the cylinder wall . So is the high lubricity oil reducing the friction on the cylinder wall and is the piston getting hotter than before because it can't efficiently shed its high temps or what? Ponderous
I think the piston oilers also have a bit to do with piston cooling in a big twin and if oil temps are lower with this oil then the oil being sprayed on the pistons will be cooler and thus reduce temps as well.
If NASCAR uses Mobile 1 (5w-20w) in motors that get high rpm and 220* oil temps then what is the draw back to using it for a HD? The pressure will still be the same and the V-Twin MOTORCYCLE still doesn't cost as much as a NASCAR MOTOR. Anyone try aircraft oil? Air cooled? Are we looking for longevity or performance or best of both ? I WANT A 200MPH, 200,000 mile 200 HP 10second BUTT HAULER That never needs oil change !!!!!! We spend $$$$$$$ on our bikes anyway. Some change oil every 2k miles. WTF use/swap the oil from the person who changes it @ 1500 miles. ECO friendly.,SOME just ADD (ANY TYPE) when needed (self changing)? Any one want to try ANYTHING other then OEM suggested (syn ) in there 2014 $40,000 + HD? If after reading all the HTT posts and NOISE FROM ? problems why not fix what you have to NOT MAKE THE NOISE!! PUT IN THICKER OIL?? TURN up the radio,install louder exhaust,put in ear plugs, full face helmet. When HD STOP making noise there is a PROBLEM????? The thicker oil stops noise. What causes that noise? The 2014 are quieter then previous models because they take out the noise BEFORE you get it. They still come up to "operating temp" and run same pressure as govern by the oil pump bypass. OEM or barn yard build? Try a alum oil filter with a 10 micron screen. MORE oil VOLUME and quieter. ASK ME HOW I KNOW? ANY OIL!!!!!!!
price is what starter this, ,i run Schaeffer's 20w50 supreme 7000 race oil cost me around 5$-6$ quart has extra zinc in it,i change oil when i change tires 2000-3000miles depend on how much i beat up on it, no your not going find it in stores we have a guy come buy and stock us we usually buy it by the box of 12 quarts but gallon jugs are cheaper, if it matter Dave Mackie approved this oil at one time might still do
Quote from: Templer on July 18, 2014, 07:44:56 AM
If NASCAR uses Mobile 1 (5w-20w) in motors that get high rpm and 220* oil temps then what is the draw back to using it for a HD? The pressure will still be the same and the V-Twin MOTORCYCLE still doesn't cost as much as a NASCAR MOTOR. Anyone try aircraft oil? Air cooled? Are we looking for longevity or performance or best of both ? I WANT A 200MPH, 200,000 mile 200 HP 10second BUTT HAULER That never needs oil change !!!!!! We spend $$$$$$$ on our bikes anyway. Some change oil every 2k miles. WTF use/swap the oil from the person who changes it @ 1500 miles. ECO friendly.,SOME just ADD (ANY TYPE) when needed (self changing)? Any one want to try ANYTHING other then OEM suggested (syn ) in there 2014 $40,000 + HD? If after reading all the HTT posts and NOISE FROM ? problems why not fix what you have to NOT MAKE THE NOISE!! PUT IN THICKER OIL?? TURN up the radio,install louder exhaust,put in ear plugs, full face helmet. When HD STOP making noise there is a PROBLEM????? The thicker oil stops noise. What causes that noise? The 2014 are quieter then previous models because they take out the noise BEFORE you get it. They still come up to "operating temp" and run same pressure as govern by the oil pump bypass. OEM or barn yard build? Try a alum oil filter with a 10 micron screen. MORE oil VOLUME and quieter. ASK ME HOW I KNOW? ANY OIL!!!!!!!
#1 If your motor is stone quiet for valve train noise at 80* ambient air temp and 210* engine oil temp and sounds like a sewing machine at 95* ambient and 230* engine oil temp with 20w-50, or straight 50wt then is stone quiet at 95* ambient air temp and 230* engine oil temp with a 20w-60 or a straight 60w................. Then you have noise induced by low viscosity... Those noises you hear are your valve train beating itself up and your bearings could very well be doing the same.
I am not worried about noise, I worry about my valvetrain beating itself up!
I love Woods and Leineweber cams that look like SQUARE lobes in my play bikes! However My 255 cam should be FAIRLY quiet and if your valvetrain is louder at 230* oil temp than it is at 180* oil temp that could create a problem!:)
#2 Airplanes run in extremely cold air temps and the oil is expensive.... Those air temps are the exact opposite of the cooling our v twins get.
#3 BTW most of us ALREADY have better oil cooling and LOWER OPENING THERMOSTATS! Wards Parts Werks 160* thermostats are the bomb!
#4 If I can get oil that runs better when it is 90* to 105* our AND the oil runs better when it is 29* to 50* at startup AND I can stock only 1 oil year round AND it is 1/2 the price and available 13 miles away rather than ordering it....... That"s a clear winner in my book!
#5 Playing with oil is fun! And who doesn't like a good experiment shared by a dozen guys across the whole nation! :up:
did you notice any difference with the Ward's thermostat installed?
I've had on sitting on the work bench now for over a year and haven't installed it yet.
Ray
Ray, Since I installed the wards 160* thermostat and a 2013 oil filter adapter (I had a 2014 adapter on my 2013 fltru) On a 100* day it takes over an hour and a half of hard riding AND about 20 minutes of city driving to reach 250* I have never seen my bike exceed 250* even when in a 90 minute traffic jam on a 95*+ day. When I get back on the highway the temp goes back down to 230 even if ambient air temp is up to 100* :up:
Before the thermostat was added on a 85* day the bike hit 250* in less than 45 minutes of hard riding as soon as you stopped at an off ramp.... AND Once I reached 250* the bike stayed there regardless of what speed I was driving and the longer I was in town in traffic jams the higher the temp got until the temp maxed out at about 280*
Sooooo I see AT LEAST a 20* lowering of temps just from the thermostat.
Before avg hot weather running temp was 250* with a high of 280* and no cooling below 250*
After avg hot weather running temp is 230* OR LESS with a high of 250*, The bike takes 2x longer to reach max temp and goes back down almost immediately upon reaching 55mph+ for a minute or two.
I believe the 160* works without a doubt for my bike and my conditions here in Memphis. More oil flow sooner at a lower temp. It is a must have and I suggest it to EVERY twin cam owner I know.
Heat is the enemy!
http://www.wardspartswerks.com/thermostats.html (http://www.wardspartswerks.com/thermostats.html)
BTW I am in no way affiliated with Jason I am just an enthusiastic promoter of better mousetraps! :idea:
I use Mobil1 15W-50 5qt. Jug from Walmart $25.00. Living in Phx. In the summer is
Very brutal here. Have tried redline 60W at 2wice the price and have noticed no difference
In less engine noise than M1 15W-50. I have been running it for years with no problems.
176
Quote from: Mountainman streetbob on July 19, 2014, 10:22:31 AM
Ray, Since I installed the wards 160* thermostat and a 2013 oil filter adapter (I had a 2014 adapter on my 2013 fltru) On a 100* day it takes over an hour and a half of hard riding AND about 20 minutes of city driving to reach 250* I have never seen my bike exceed 250* even when in a 90 minute traffic jam on a 95*+ day. When I get back on the highway the temp goes back down to 230 even if ambient air temp is up to 100* :up:
Before the thermostat was added on a 85* day the bike hit 250* in less than 45 minutes of hard riding as soon as you stopped at an off ramp.... AND Once I reached 250* the bike stayed there regardless of what speed I was driving and the longer I was in town in traffic jams the higher the temp got until the temp maxed out at about 280*
Sooooo I see AT LEAST a 20* lowering of temps just from the thermostat.
Before avg hot weather running temp was 250* with a high of 280* and no cooling below 250*
After avg hot weather running temp is 230* OR LESS with a high of 250*, The bike takes 2x longer to reach max temp and goes back down almost immediately upon reaching 55mph+ for a minute or two.
I believe the 160* works without a doubt for my bike and my conditions here in Memphis. More oil flow sooner at a lower temp. It is a must have and I suggest it to EVERY twin cam owner I know.
Heat is the enemy!
http://www.wardspartswerks.com/thermostats.html (http://www.wardspartswerks.com/thermostats.html)
BTW I am in no way affiliated with Jason I am just an enthusiastic promoter of better mousetraps! :idea:
Thanks for info that could come in handy on a hot 120 bagger
good thread - thanks all :up:
I went out to the barn an installed my Wards thermostat I've had sitting on the work bench for over a year now.
Then I rode the bike for a total of 82 miles. Most of the miles were on the interstate...except for the 4 miles it takes each way to get to it and off it from my house. I had the bike in cruise control set at 72 mph the whole way with a couple of roll on's up to 80mph to pass 18 wheelers. My oil pressure was it's normal 34 pounds at cruising speed. Hot idle was also the same with the 10W60 Luqui Moly.
My oil temp was 214* when I pulled it into the barn and parked it...this was with no cooling fans turned on.
On a normal little trip like this...I usually see my oil temp's in the 220*- 225* range.
More oil temp recordings to follow.
Ray
:pop:
This "Potty mouth" keeps up we'll have nothing to talk about come winter.
Mike
Quote from: No Cents on July 19, 2014, 04:02:02 PM
I went out to the barn an installed my Wards thermostat I've had sitting on the work bench for over a year now.
Then I rode the bike for a total of 82 miles. Most of the miles were on the interstate...except for the 4 miles it takes each way to get to it and off it from my house. I had the bike in cruise control set at 72 mph the whole way with a couple of roll on's up to 80mph to pass 18 wheelers. My oil pressure was it's normal 34 pounds at cruising speed. Hot idle was also the same with the 10W60 Luqui Moly.
My oil temp was 214* when I pulled it into the barn and parked it...this was with no cooling fans turned on.
On a normal little trip like this...I usually see my oil temp's in the 220*- 225* range.
More oil temp recordings to follow.
Ray
Ray, How do you monitor your oil temps? do you use the led dipstick or do you have a gauge mounted???
I've been using the HD led dipstick, but the readings seem all over the place... should I check it first thing after shutdown? or what do you suggest?
Thanks
I've got a digital led dipstick. It apparently is fairly accurate. I got a laser heat gun that I checked it with also today after a little 50 mile ride.
My temp was 214* again on the dip stick...so I pulled the dip stick out and shot the laser heat gun into the dipstick hole to see what it would read. It read 212*. :nix:
I check the temp before starting the bike...then after I take my ride...I have been checking it when I pull the bike back into the barn and shut it off.
Ray
Well I have about 250 miles in 2 trips running 2 up mixture of in town and highway.
I idled the bike and at a ambient air temp of 85* i was able to idle the bike until it reached a max oil temp of 230* 4 times in the last 2 days.
At 230* oil temp my 1000rpm idle oil pressure has gone up from 8-10psi to roughly 14-16psi.
Running down the road at 2000 rpm and 230* oil temp my oil pressure 36-44 rather than 32-36.
The top end sewing machine noises are quieted down enough at 210*-230* oil temps that both the wife and son noticed going down the highway and said they heard the radio better. At idle at 230* their is no valvetrain noise at all. Matter of fact the wife who has only 1 ear and it's not that good noticed she could hear 2 distinct "new" noises... The primary and the cam chest......
I am pleased so far, The oil is no cure all but it is DEFINITELY quieter than Harley conventional/dino 50 wt
Look Here........
http://www.europaparts.com/liqui-moly-synthoil-race-tech-gt1-10w60-engine-oil-5-liter.html?utm_source=google_shopping&gclid=CMbkqsHJ1r8CFcnm7AodgF8A6A (http://www.europaparts.com/liqui-moly-synthoil-race-tech-gt1-10w60-engine-oil-5-liter.html?utm_source=google_shopping&gclid=CMbkqsHJ1r8CFcnm7AodgF8A6A)
Quote from: ΚĜΗΟŜΤ on July 21, 2014, 07:07:15 AM
Look Here........
http://www.europaparts.com/liqui-moly-synthoil-race-tech-gt1-10w60-engine-oil-5-liter.html?utm_source=google_shopping&gclid=CMbkqsHJ1r8CFcnm7AodgF8A6A (http://www.europaparts.com/liqui-moly-synthoil-race-tech-gt1-10w60-engine-oil-5-liter.html?utm_source=google_shopping&gclid=CMbkqsHJ1r8CFcnm7AodgF8A6A)
The cheapest available shipping is $16.68 :emoGroan:
Seemed to me that Amazon was a bit better on deals...
Yes, Shipping sucks BUT still beats driving a hundred miles for pick-up even on the :scoot:
signed....BUBBIE
164 strait highway miles between 55 and 80mph. 210• and motor is queiter. temp outside is about 80+. one I hit Pa. ill update again.
It was 72* outside this morning on the ride into work...it showed an oil temp of 184* again for the cooler ride into work.
It's already up to +90* outside here today at noon time...so my ride home after work will be the hottest outside temp's that I've seen since putting this 10W60 in.
I'll post what temp I see when I pull it into the barn and park it after I get home from work today
Ray
Quote from: No Cents on July 15, 2014, 04:09:30 PM
Surprisingly my local Napa store had six 1 litre bottles of the Liqui Moly 10W60 synthetic sitting on the shelf for $11.99 a bottle.
I asked him about the 5 litre jug and he said let me check. He came back and said I can have one here tomorrow morning by 8AM for $49.99. I told him I'd take one.
I rode the bike straight home and put it up on the lift to drain the oil. I'm going to let the old oil drain out real good sitting over night.
I'll let's you's know in the next few days if I can actually hear a difference in my valve train running this Liqui Moly 10W60 syn over the Mobil 1 15W50 syn that I drained out.
Ray
Ray, as I understand it, I doubt that the noise will diminish for you.
The first number on the oil bottle is the pour characteristics.
The higher the first number the thicker the oil.
90 weight (W) gear oil pours like syrup....get my meaning on the first number?
The second number on your purchase is 60, which means it give the engine protection as if you used a 60 weight oil.
Hence, 10W60.
Now, if you used a straight 60W (no second number on the bottle, because it's all 60W) you will run quieter.
Cancel that oil order, it won't be quieter save your $$.
I'll stand corrected if anyone disagrees with what I stated about the oil..............just saying, no argument intended.
Panzer
:up:
thanks Panzer...but I've known for quit a long time what the #'s stood for when it comes to different blends of oil.
0W gets the oil faster to the top of an engine vs 10W or 20W...and the 2nd # is for the thickness of the oil.
It's too late on cancelling the order...it's already in the bike.
Ray
I wouldn't drain perfectly good oil out of the bike to switch to any other oil, but I would consider this stuff on the next oil change that I have to do anyway.
My last oil report on the Liqui Moly 10W60.
I rode the bike home from work today and the outside temp was 92*...so I took the long way home for a little 25 mile ride.
I pulled the bike into the barn and turned the bike off and the dipstick read 210*. I did a couple things in the barn and walked back over to the bike about 3- 4 minutes later and checked it again...the oil temp went up to 214*...and that was with the bike being shut off.
My final impressions of this oil...is a positive one.
What I have seen is my bike respond with lower operating temperatures...but I honestly have to say I haven't really noticed any difference in my valve train as far as noises go...but my valve train is not overly noisy to begin with.
Will I buy this oil and use it again...yes.
Ray
Thanks Ray. For the price & no shipping, think I'll try it. :oil:
Had a buddy at Road Glide Forums http://www.roadglide.org/showthread.php?p=2052545#post2052545 (http://www.roadglide.org/showthread.php?p=2052545#post2052545) post this interesting set of numbers.
Here's some of the highlights compared to Mobile 1 VTwin..
Mobil 1 V-Twin / LIQUI MOLI
Density, g/ml @ 15.6°C (ASTM D4052) 0.87 / 0.855
Flash Point, °C (ASTM D93), 214 / 240
Pour Point,°C (ASTM D97) 42 / -30
Kinematic Viscosity, cSt @ 40°C (ASTM D445) 72.3 / 155
Kinematic Viscosity, cSt @ 100°C (ASTM D445) 20.8 / 23.8
Viscosity Index 142 / 185
It has a higher flash point, greater Viscosity Index and better viscosity at 100.. I'm surprised that the pour numbers are lower.
I'll let you be the judge.. but would probably work better in the warm weather areas..
My special thanks to CNM Tuner....
:hug:
Ebay
Liqui Moly 2024 Race Tech GT-1 10W-60 Synthetic Motor Oil 5 liters BMW M3 M5 M6
The item is listed as a Top Rated Plus item
FAST 'N FREE - Get it on or before Tue, Jul. 29
$44.00
Buy It Now
Free shipping
Well, I just got back from WV. 1526 miles since Tuesday. Temps from 75* to 85*, from sea level to 2850ft above. With and without humidity, all Highway miles from 75-85MPH and the oil temp never went above 225* and averaged about 215*. I know my motor is much quieter at idle with this oil. As far as at RPM I really didn't notice any measurable diff.
I like the oil so far and will continue using it. Not a miracle fluid but I'm impressed enough to continue with it.
I'll give it a try in my 110. My motor is very particular about viscosity. Once I get a thousand miles on an oil change, it starts singing and ticking. Fresh oil makes it purr. I recently rode 633 miles in one day with temps between 95 and 103 degrees ambient and a tail wind. Not much cooling going on. TTS Flight Recorder reported head temps north of 350 for most of the day. 20W50 dino Oil was toast, like water when cool. Changed it to Redline 20w50 and it is still doing a good job at 2500 miles of summer heat and highway riding.
Ordered from the eBay seller, he is just NW of Ft Worth TX. So I had to pay sales tax. Local NAPA wants $12 by the qt/ltr.
I remember reading a bike magazine article many years ago, late 70's, that tested 20w50 vs 10w40 in metric bikes like the then-popular 1000cc naked or standard bikes. They said the lighter 10w40 moved around the motor more quickly and therefore carried heat away faster. They recorded cooler temps with the 10w40.
I'm wondering about the lifters and how a thinner (cold) oil will perform.
"""I'm wondering about the lifters and how a thinner (cold) oil will perform."""
Seems to me that a 10w to a 20w to a 50w..... :oil:
Cold:
The 10 will get IN quicker and Leave Quicker
the 20 will get in slower and leave slower
the 50 will really get in there slower and leave there really slower
BUT : Once ALL 3 are Hot the difference is minimal on the flowing.
Each will be different but the same results.
JMO
signed....BUBBIE
Well I now have 855 miles on the new oil and have been running it around town 2 up in 90+ heat with no wind this weekend, engine oil temps 170-220. The top end is noticeably quieter. NOT stone cold 100* oil temp quiet but not a sewing machine. The oil appears to continually run AT LEAST 20-25 DEGREES cooler with outside air temps from 85*-95* compared to straight 50 wt dyno oil.
Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread. :teeth:
Quote from: BUBBIE on July 28, 2014, 08:27:48 AM
"""I'm wondering about the lifters and how a thinner (cold) oil will perform."""
Seems to me that a 10w to a 20w to a 50w..... :oil:
Cold:
The 10 will get IN quicker and Leave Quicker
the 20 will get in slower and leave slower
the 50 will really get in there slower and leave there really slower
BUT : Once ALL 3 are Hot the difference is minimal on the flowing.
Each will be different but the same results.
JMO
signed....BUBBIE
Bubbie I like what your saying, but I have tried at least 5 different weights of oils in 3 different twin cams and they all sounded like sewing machines when the ambient temp hits 95* out here. That motor gets up about 230*-250* oil temp and the oil thins out and the top end sounds between bad and awful.
The only way I have been able to get these bikes top ends quiet is to run straight 60 weight oil... (multiple brands)
20w-60 redline works nearly as well.
15w-50 and 20w-50 are loud
10w-40 is really loud
I liked the idea of a 10w-60 that was a full synthetic.
#1 it is available local at $8.49 a quart VS $16.85 a quart including tax or shipping (I am cheap!)
#2 I like Napa! It's nice to go up, say hi, shoot the breeze, have a soda-beer-smoke depending on the napa!
#3 The longer the oil will maintain it's flow characteristics and it's viscosity the longer the lifters will do their job and the less noise you will have in the top end from slack in the lifters.
So far its working ok. I woke up and walked out the door this morning and the air was 83* and muggy. Bike purred like a kitten on the way in.
Yes I agree THAT the 60 is the Key... Whether it be 10w/20w/ straight 60 that 60 is a big difference over the 50...
I also noted a BIG difference in top-end noise from my 20w50 Redline to 20w60 redline... Especially in Az. HEAT :oil:
Viscosity is the KEY... HEAT eventually will win out and OVER HOT will change all... NOISY
signed....BUBBIE
added straight in RED....
:up: :up: :up: Your a scholar and a gentleman and there are damn few of us left!
1300 mile report. 95*-100* ambient temp oil temp 220* cruising 50mph-80mph 2 up loaded. Stop for accident on 2 lane and 6 mile traffic jam temps reached 250* still no sewing machine sounds, a little soft metallic tapping... Very pleased so far...
Anyone having any issues be they good or bad?
A 70W oil should really quiet the valve train...
I know a Dyna that runs straight 70wt here in the summer and straight 50wt in the winter.
I thought about 70wt but came up with the following:
70wt will void the warranty, probably not give sufficient lube volume to the top end on start up, not spray right through the cooling jets and costs more for a conventional oil than we are paying for this as a full synthetic.
Quote from: Mountainman streetbob on July 20, 2014, 05:55:42 PM
At 230* oil temp my 1000rpm idle oil pressure has gone up from 8-10psi to roughly 14-16psi.
Running down the road at 2000 rpm and 230* oil temp my oil pressure 36-44 rather than 32-36.
The higher oil pressure does not mean you are flowing more oil. Just that the oil is moving harder.
Have you ever seen 100 pounds of oil pressure when starting a diesel at -30? That high pressure is not a good thing.
BTW, not knocking this thread. That 10W60 has good specs and seems to be excellent for those checking it out. Thanks for that.
Bob
Quote from: WI Bob on August 04, 2014, 06:43:30 PM
Quote from: Mountainman streetbob on July 20, 2014, 05:55:42 PM
At 230* oil temp my 1000rpm idle oil pressure has gone up from 8-10psi to roughly 14-16psi.
Running down the road at 2000 rpm and 230* oil temp my oil pressure 36-44 rather than 32-36.
The higher oil pressure does not mean you are flowing more oil. Just that the oil is moving harder.
Have you ever seen 100 pounds of oil pressure when starting a diesel at -30? That high pressure is not a good thing.
BTW, not knocking this thread. That 10W60 has good specs and seems to be excellent for those checking it out. Thanks for that.
Bob
Excellent point! Oil pressure is not ALWAYS good!
I like having MORE oil pressure at idle. 14psi at idle gives me a warm fuzzy compared to 8psi.
On a low pressure high volume oil system like this I like the idea of more pressure at a lower temp.
The point is not to flow more oil (even though a given temp and higher pressure ensure more flow!) The point is to keep pressures up, heat down and have the oil maintain viscosity longer.
And this product seems to be doing that pretty darn well.
I changed out to this 10w-60 uber luber in my 12 EG 103 a few days ago. The 20w-50 synth in there only had 1300 miles on it but I wanted to try it. Of course it's immediately a bit more quiet and still quiet with about 250 miles on it so far, but aren't they always quieter with fresh oil? I think the test will be if it's still quiet(er) at around 1500-2000 miles.
Now if it would quiet down my primary we'd have something. :hyst:
Mark
Quote from: 76shuvlinoff on August 05, 2014, 02:51:18 AM
I changed out to this 10w-60 uber luber in my 12 EG 103 a few days ago. The 20w-50 synth in there only had 1300 miles on it but I wanted to try it. Of course it's immediately a bit more quiet and still quiet with about 250 miles on it so far but aren't they always quieter with fresh oil? I think the test will be if it's still quiet(er) at around 1500-2000 miles.
Now if it would quiet down my primary we'd have something. :hyst:
Mark
I just checked the clock and I have 1947 miles on this oil and it is just as quiet as the day it was put in. In fact I can't recall the last time I heard a "tick". I plan on dumping it at 3K miles for a refresh. Great oil so far.
Quote from: Jaycee1964 on August 05, 2014, 04:11:06 AM
Quote from: 76shuvlinoff on August 05, 2014, 02:51:18 AM
I changed out to this 10w-60 uber luber in my 12 EG 103 a few days ago. The 20w-50 synth in there only had 1300 miles on it but I wanted to try it. Of course it's immediately a bit more quiet and still quiet with about 250 miles on it so far but aren't they always quieter with fresh oil? I think the test will be if it's still quiet(er) at around 1500-2000 miles.
Now if it would quiet down my primary we'd have something. :hyst:
Mark
I just checked the clock and I have 1947 miles on this oil and it is just as quiet as the day it was put in. In fact I can't recall the last time I heard a "tick". I plan on dumping it at 3K miles for a refresh. Great oil so far.
That's promising news, thanks.
I've had the 10W60 Liqui Moly in mine a few weeks now.
I too have noticed a few more pounds of oil pressure at hot idle...but what impresses me the most is the lower oil temps I'm seeing with this 10w60.
Normally I'd see 220*- 225* on my heat soaked 124 engine.
Now the hottest I've seen my oil temp to date is 214*. Oil temps are down 6*-11*. Impressive!
I'm very happy with this oil and I do plan on continuing to use it.
Ray
I'm just wondering , What kind of engines are you guys running that you are getting low to mid 200 degrees . I run an evo and never seen a temp over 195. Even on 95 degree days running 400 miles at 55-65mph .
Quote from: Ironheadmike on August 05, 2014, 12:35:11 PM
I'm just wondering , What kind of engines are you guys running that you are getting low to mid 200 degrees . I run an evo and never seen a temp over 195. Even on 95 degree days running 400 miles at 55-65mph .
Believe it or not, Here in Memphis a stock twin cam on a day like today (almost 100) will easily run 280* + and if stuck in stop and go after the highway I have seen a couple in the 350* range for oil temp!
Pipes, intake, cm and tune can easily bring that back down to 230* oil temp worst case scenario.....
HOLY COW!!! that's hot . Doesn't all oil break down at those temps ? Syn or Dyno?
... and since I removed the oil cooler my poor shovel might hit 190F (oil tank) in July.
Quote from: Ironheadmike on August 05, 2014, 12:35:11 PM
I'm just wondering , What kind of engines are you guys running that you are getting low to mid 200 degrees . I run an evo and never seen a temp over 195. Even on 95 degree days running 400 miles at 55-65mph .
Big inch High compression rockets and we run 75-80 mph for 200-700 miles.
Quote from: Ironheadmike on August 05, 2014, 01:59:38 PM
HOLY COW!!! that's hot . Doesn't all oil break down at those temps ? Syn or Dyno?
All oil breaks down the hotter it gets. Conventional in general just does not last well above 250* Synthetics you can add another 100*-150* depending on the weight and additive packages. No oil lasts very long at 350*-400*
from what I've been told by my friend that works at Valvoline in their testing lab is that conventional oil breaks down by 240*...while a full synthetic oil wont begin to break down until it reaches temperatures over 400*.
They test oil everyday in this lab.
I told him this spring I was going to try their VR1 60wt conventional racing oil in my bike this summer...he said don't...use their VR1 20w50 because is was from synthetic base stock and the VR1 60wt was not. He said he wouldn't run a conventional oil in these T/C engines because if you get stuck in traffic one time on a hot day...the oil more than likely needs to be drained because it doesn't take but only a few minutes at 240* for conventional oil to lose almost all it's viscosity. He said if the oil temp reaches 240*...it will drain out like water. He said stick with synthetic.
I showed him the Liqui Moly 10w60 I was using. He took a little sample with him to work at his lab and came back with...I like that oil a lot and it should be more that satisfactory in your bike...even in the hottest summer months.
Ray
Thanks Ray!
WOW 240* for conventional is even lower than the tests and papers we have been collecting.
A little more back ground reading
http://www.speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=31363 (http://www.speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=31363)
Quote from: 1FSTRK on August 06, 2014, 06:15:59 PM
A little more back ground reading
http://www.speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=31363 (http://www.speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=31363)
Appreciate the link. Some good information. :up:
Quote from: No Cents on August 06, 2014, 05:44:53 PM
from what I've been told by my friend that works at Valvoline in their testing lab is that conventional oil breaks down by 240*...while a full synthetic oil wont begin to break down until it reaches temperatures over 400*.
They test oil everyday in this lab.
I told him this spring I was going to try their VR1 60wt conventional racing oil in my bike this summer...he said don't...use their VR1 20w50 because is was from synthetic base stock and the VR1 60wt was not. He said he wouldn't run a conventional oil in these T/C engines because if you get stuck in traffic one time on a hot day...the oil more than likely needs to be drained because it doesn't take but only a few minutes at 240* for conventional oil to lose almost all it's viscosity. He said if the oil temp reaches 240*...it will drain out like water. He said stick with synthetic.
I showed him the Liqui Moly 10w60 I was using. He took a little sample with him to work at his lab and came back with...I like that oil a lot and it should be more that satisfactory in your bike...even in the hottest summer months.
Ray
That's good to know Ray. I use the VR1 50 and 60 in the summer and makes since why I change my oil so frequently. 1500-2000 miles and my motor starts sounding like a solid lift shovel. I have a fairing mount temp gauge and it never even gets to the 230 mark but that's not doesn't mean it's accurate.
[/quote]
Believe it or not, Here in Memphis a stock twin cam on a day like today (almost 100) will easily run 280* + and if stuck in stop and go after the highway I have seen a couple in the 350* range for oil temp!
Pipes, intake, cm and tune can easily bring that back down to 230* oil temp worst case scenario.....
[/quote] i agree my dyna still dosnt like in town driving in Jackson but my dad's ultra just putts along with max of 250 i blame the oil cooler for cooler temps
From Liqui Moly
Our Synthoil Race Tech GT1 has the following zinc/phosphorous contents:
Zinc: 970 - 1150 ppm
Phosphorous: 900 - 1060 ppm
I just changed oil to - Valvoline VR1 20W50 synthetic in my Bike (the blue stuff) my engine really likes this oil so far.http://www.pepboys.com/product/details/887616/01036?source=googleps&isPayInStoreOnlyStore=false (http://www.pepboys.com/product/details/887616/01036?source=googleps&isPayInStoreOnlyStore=false)
Quote from: dakota224 on August 14, 2014, 07:39:41 AM
I just changed oil to - Valvoline VR1 20W50 synthetic in my Bike (the blue stuff) my engine really likes this oil so far.http://www.pepboys.com/product/details/887616/01036?source=googleps&isPayInStoreOnlyStore=false (http://www.pepboys.com/product/details/887616/01036?source=googleps&isPayInStoreOnlyStore=false)
Found that same oil for $2.98 a quart at O'Reilly's last year. Bought 28 quarts from 2 different stores.
It's my new favorite oil!
3,800 miles and now doing an oil change. IMO I will stay with this oil. Motor is quieter by far (valve train is silent), not a whole lot cooler but yes, cooler. Used only a couple Oz between changes. I really like it. Survived one trip from NH to WV and back and a trip from NH to VA and back.
Quote from: Jaycee1964 on August 21, 2014, 01:10:43 PM
3,800 miles and now doing an oil change. IMO I will stay with this oil. Motor is quieter by far (valve train is silent), not a whole lot cooler but yes, cooler. Used only a couple Oz between changes. I really like it. Survived one trip from NH to WV and back and a trip from NH to VA and back.
The liquid moly or the valvoline?
liquimoly
Quote from: jswerve on August 21, 2014, 01:22:15 PM
Quote from: Jaycee1964 on August 21, 2014, 01:10:43 PM
3,800 miles and now doing an oil change. IMO I will stay with this oil. Motor is quieter by far (valve train is silent), not a whole lot cooler but yes, cooler. Used only a couple Oz between changes. I really like it. Survived one trip from NH to WV and back and a trip from NH to VA and back.
The liquid moly or the valvoline?
Liquimoly
I have used KLOTZ syn 20 -60 was about 8 bucks a Qt. But I just ck it out on there site and they don't even make it anymore .
awesome find people. switching to this before the canada trip. now U.S. demand is going to shoot up and price with it :emsad: :cry: :angry:
Has anyone had any experience with Alisyn oils? I have a friend who used to race boats and he swears by this oil. They have a Harley specific oil but you have to call them to get it. Reads like a great oil too.
http://syntheticlubricants.aerospacelubricants.com/item/prodrive-21a/prodrive-21/pn7072?&plpver=10&origin=advsrch&by=prod&filter=0&categid=3001274&prodid=3001067 (http://syntheticlubricants.aerospacelubricants.com/item/prodrive-21a/prodrive-21/pn7072?&plpver=10&origin=advsrch&by=prod&filter=0&categid=3001274&prodid=3001067)
:missed:
Well, I finally did my oil change From using Redline 20/50 to the 10w60 Moly. Bought two from Amazon Prime during the time I have waited out my mileage.
Got lazy and didn't purge out all the oil like I planned (6 row Jagg and sump/oil pump) but it will do fine until Next change at 4000 or there about.
I'm not like Ray in his 2000 miles :potstir: I think the 4 will do me just fine... Heck, I want to see some color in there before I drain.
I have never ever sent out a sample but seem to have done really well using the Redline products and changing oil and filter at 4+-... I did switch over (again) to the K&N 171-C oil filters...
The 10w60 pored just fine from the big bottle as the spout pulls out and de-cantering worked easy...
It seemed to pour thicker than I thought a 10w would... Mind you it is HOT here in Az. and the garage stays at 78* almost year around and the Bottles set here for a month or so...
You know, IT Is really hard to change to another product when I have had such good results from Redline...
I'll give it a chance to See the oil pressure and find my infra' Heat gauge.
Reading the other positive posting about this oil made it a little easier to change over.
For me, it was Not about $$ savgs. on the cost,,, as Redline isn't cheap.
signed....BUBBIE
Good Luck Bubbie! :up: Looking forward to hearing your results! :teeth:
After I break in my 124 ill switch over too. Been using M1 forever and been happy. Tried Amsoil once but it was too noisy. I too am basically changing over due to the reviews and research here. Never a fan of oil threads but this one has been pretty good.
Quote from: No Cents on August 06, 2014, 05:44:53 PM
from what I've been told by my friend that works at Valvoline in their testing lab is that conventional oil breaks down by 240*...while a full synthetic oil wont begin to break down until it reaches temperatures over 400*.
They test oil everyday in this lab.
I told him this spring I was going to try their VR1 60wt conventional racing oil in my bike this summer...he said don't...use their VR1 20w50 because is was from synthetic base stock and the VR1 60wt was not. He said he wouldn't run a conventional oil in these T/C engines because if you get stuck in traffic one time on a hot day...the oil more than likely needs to be drained because it doesn't take but only a few minutes at 240* for conventional oil to lose almost all it's viscosity. He said if the oil temp reaches 240*...it will drain out like water. He said stick with synthetic.
I showed him the Liqui Moly 10w60 I was using. He took a little sample with him to work at his lab and came back with...I like that oil a lot and it should be more that satisfactory in your bike...even in the hottest summer months.
Ray
there you have it. Local napa had to order mine and not on sale but still reasonable.
BTW it is $45 for a 5L jug @ Napa if you "reserve" it online and show up at the store with the reservation printed out. At the store it's $50. Hey, $5 is $5
:slap:Crap, didn't know about that angle.
Quote from: Jaycee1964 on August 28, 2014, 11:14:09 AM
BTW it is $45 for a 5L jug @ Napa if you "reserve" it online and show up at the store with the reservation printed out. At the store it's $50. Hey, $5 is $5
Thank you
Stuff isn't so cheap in Canada $95 to the door for 5 liters here. Cheapest I found from the Canadian distributor.
http://liquimolycanada.com/ (http://liquimolycanada.com/) Bob
Quote from: FXDBI on August 28, 2014, 10:21:20 PM
Stuff isn't so cheap in Canada $95 to the door for 5 liters here. Cheapest I found from the Canadian distributor.
http://liquimolyCanada.com/ (http://liquimolyCanada.com/) Bob
Damn!! Do you know anyone across the border to ship it to you? Where up there RU?
Just ordered me a jug. $43.66 Napa.
This is where I get it from for my M3.
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=181092760838
:up: great price
Quote from: 06roadglide on September 08, 2014, 10:02:05 AM
This is where I get it from for my M3.
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=181092760838
So that's two 5 liter jugs?
Quote from: 06roadglide on September 08, 2014, 10:02:05 AM
This is where I get it from for my M3.
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=181092760838
duplicate
Quote from: jswerve on September 08, 2014, 07:32:52 PM
Quote from: 06roadglide on September 08, 2014, 10:02:05 AM
This is where I get it from for my M3.
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=181092760838
So that's two 5 liter jugs?
That is correct.
Quote from: 06roadglide on September 08, 2014, 07:45:40 PM
Quote from: jswerve on September 08, 2014, 07:32:52 PM
Quote from: 06roadglide on September 08, 2014, 10:02:05 AM
This is where I get it from for my M3.
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=181092760838
So that's two 5 liter jugs?
That is correct.
Awesome! Thanks for sharing! I'm hoping it quiets down my noisy 110 top end.
Quote from: jswerve on September 08, 2014, 07:47:27 PM
Quote from: 06roadglide on September 08, 2014, 07:45:40 PM
Quote from: jswerve on September 08, 2014, 07:32:52 PM
Quote from: 06roadglide on September 08, 2014, 10:02:05 AM
This is where I get it from for my M3.
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=181092760838 (http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=181092760838)
So that's two 5 liter jugs?
That is correct.
Awesome! Thanks for sharing! I'm hoping it quiets down my noisy 110 top end.
May take more than that to quiet a 110.. ugh..
Quote from: Jaycee1964 on September 08, 2014, 07:55:24 PM
Quote from: jswerve on September 08, 2014, 07:47:27 PM
Quote from: 06roadglide on September 08, 2014, 07:45:40 PM
Quote from: jswerve on September 08, 2014, 07:32:52 PM
Quote from: 06roadglide on September 08, 2014, 10:02:05 AM
This is where I get it from for my M3.
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=181092760838 (http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=181092760838)
So that's two 5 liter jugs?
That is correct.
Awesome! Thanks for sharing! I'm hoping it quiets down my noisy 110 top end.
May take more than that to quiet a 110.. ugh..
No lie! GRRRR drives me nuts! 3rd brand of lifters and they all do it!
They can call it whatever they want but it specs out at more of a 20/60 than a 10/60. But hey that may not be a bad thing.
Well I hope you guys are right on this. Ive used M1 a long time but like many, it seems the motor makes more noisel w/ M1.
I bought a 5 ltr jug last night & its on its way. It was 42.50 w/ free S&H.
:missed:
I also made mention of it being on the Thicker side of a 10w... I have it in my ride (09 103 modified King) gaterman lifters and I did notice on a HOT day long ride to NM from Az. It was No More noisy (nice sewing machine sound I am happy with) than with my Redline 20w/50... but hey, I had No problems with the Redline, so I can't say any more YET
The oil pressure is still up where it should be. Not dropping off even at a HOT Idle. (same as my Redline 20w/50) Did it seem to run cooler? never too hot in the first place as I do have the SE255 and a Good SE off road tuner with a HD 255 starter map then a BUBBIE Tune.
I too just went with the flow of Opinion to try it... Liked what Ray had to say about it...
No problems showing up YET and I Don't expect any but I will give more when I find out more...
It has set for a several days in the warm garage and I'm anxious of the first start-up noise IF any.... Never any with the Redline I used.
signed.... BUBBIE
Quote from: FastAire on September 10, 2014, 10:07:23 AM
Well I hope you guys are right on this. Ive used M1 a long time but like many, it seems the motor makes more noisel w/ M1.
I bought a 5 ltr jug last night & its on its way. It was 42.50 w/ free S&H.
Been using M1 for 18k but just seems noisy. Gonna try this next.
Changed to this 10W60 today. Had 4500 miles on my Redline 20W60, with about an hour of idling stop and go heat management at about 4000 miles. Motor was noticeably louder after that traffic jam, so I put in a pint of STP to get me home. Made it quieter.
Rode some with this 10W60 today, about 95 degrees out. Bike makes noise at ~2100 RPM, but is quiet at 2500 cruise. Starter seems to spin just a tad faster, but other than that, no difference noted between this and any other fresh oil.
That Redline was the longest lasting oil I've used in any Harley. Only started clicking after prolonged high temp, low speed Heat Management idling in Wash DC Traffic jam. After that jam cleared and I rode at normal speeds, I swear I could hear each one of my (S&S High Perf) lifters individually clicking as if they had no oil. M1 15W50 and 20W50 sounded wore out at just a thousand miles or so. Our valve train needs more viscosity at operating temps.
I plan on changing this oil when the sounds coming from my 110 change to tell me it's time. Or at 5000 miles, or next March, which ever comes first.
Running a K&N filter, this change had zero visible fuzz on the oil drain plug magnet.
TTS Tuned 103HP/111TQ[attachimg=1], 57H Cams, stock intake and exhaust, Cobra Headers.
As of today a little over 3100 miles on the 10w-60, still looks great, sounds great, smells great been running in the mid 70's to mid 80's in the morning and high 90's + in the afternoons the whole time I have been running it... Will change in another 1900 miles and do a blackstone analysis on it and see what that looks like...
Here's hoping it's all good as it seams. $8.50qt to the door sure is better than $15+ for redline or amssoil to the door. :smiled:
:rose: :idea:
Just a Quick Up-Date... (09 FLHR 103" using se 255 cams)
My bike sat for over a week (Wind and Water)... Started up and went right to 50 Lbs IN my warm garage here in Az. NO Lifter noise... None...
I watched my manual oil gauge fluctuate from 46 to 50 to 46 to 48 to 50 SO I know my pressure relief is working with the 10w oil... Now with the 20w/50 Redline, it would mostly stay the same High but not move Up and Down as much until warmed a little more... More fluctuation must mean thinner oil and using the bypass on the cam-plate properly... Good Stuff...
Happy so far. I'll put the miles in on an Edit...
Looking: GEEZE.....ONLY 1,000 miles since I put it in. Gotta get this Az. Monsoon behind me so I can ride. :missed:
signed....BUBBIE
Any more updates? I live in AZ and ride year around. When bike gets really hot I do hear tappet noise more. Was thinking about trying it on my next oil change if I can find someplace that carries it in the phoenix metro area.
Michigan, coming up on 2000 miles on mine, 12 103 EG. Not Arizona temps but still quiet hot, not using any yet. Somewhat cooler mornings here now and I'm not seeing hard cranking ... yet.
Not exactly a lab report but my experience so far.
Mark
Quote from: Teardrop on September 23, 2014, 07:58:31 PM
Any more updates? I live in AZ and ride year around. When bike gets really hot I do hear tappet noise more. Was thinking about trying it on my next oil change if I can find someplace that carries it in the phoenix metro area.
I've purchased two 5 liter jugs from eBay seller http://www.ebay.com/usr/oemparthaus (http://www.ebay.com/usr/oemparthaus) and free shipping. You don't need a local seller.
Greg
I've officially jumped on the bandwagon. Got a 5 liter bottle off of eBay. I've been running Mobil 1 v-twin 20-50 syn. No problems with it but😈 Figured I'd try the new flavor of the week.
Went for a ride today in cooler (low 80's) weather. Bike never sounded so good. Hum of the exhaust, stereo, the motor just purring. about 129 miles on this oil change.
Based on the feedback in this thread I bought some of the Liqui Moli.
I am just wondering if anyone has put the extra quart into the primary?
Frank
Well update 4400 miles into the first round of liqui moly in the bike. Still looks good, smells good, sounds good from 40*-105* outside air temp and 80*-235* oil temp.
Hopefully time for first oil change and samples in about 3 weeks.
I have a couple thousand on this lube in my TC, I am not ready to change it yet. My hopper shovel is due though and winter is damn near here. I think I am going try the extra I bought in the old girl. I have never ran synthetic oil in this S&S "shovel" mill. Any precautions or reason not to now?
Mark
If it's an S&S shovel I would think you'd be OK ! I ran synthetic in my rebuilt Harley shovel With the 88ci S&S Sidewinder kit Reworked harley heads It smoked & leaked Almost right away Turns out the valve guides came lose in their bore Because of the syn I was running I would think an all S&S shovel won't do this !?
QuoteTurns out the valve guides came lose in their bore Because of the syn
I don't understand how the oil caused that but if that is possible it is cause for concern.
Im thinking the bores for guides had some clearance issues As were talking 1974 heads in 1995+ And the oil worked it's way in allowing the guides to move I swiched back to dino And it stopped The machine shop I was going to at the time said this was very common in older Harleys( Pans & Shovels)That were trying to run Synthetic oils !? Thats why I am thinking an S&S ShovelHead shouldn't do this And even newer Shovels But this is what happened to me !
Quote from: 76shuvlinoff on October 10, 2014, 02:31:14 PM
...I have never ran synthetic oil in this S&S "shovel" mill. Any precautions or reason not to now?
Mark
Mark, are you running oil to/from the primary?
Quote from: johnnynitro on October 10, 2014, 09:00:12 PM
Im thinking the bores for guides had some clearance issues As were talking 1974 heads in 1995+ And the oil worked it's way in allowing the guides to move I swiched back to dino And it stopped The machine shop I was going to at the time said this was very common in older Harleys( Pans & Shovels)That were trying to run Synthetic oils !? Thats why I am thinking an S&S ShovelHead shouldn't do this And even newer Shovels But this is what happened to me !
Thanks
Quote from: Snuff™ on October 11, 2014, 02:57:22 AM
Mark, are you running oil to/from the primary?
No, a year or two before I installed the S&S mill I pulled a real bonehead wrenching stunt and busted the bottom out of my inner primary. I replaced it with a Cal Products inner and isolated it at that time. The primary and secondary chain lube lines are long gone. The engine case vent dumps at the swingarm.
This shovel repro motor has over 30,000 miles of conventional oils on it. She will mark her place with a quarter size spot after a run. I've always thought about switching it over to synthetic but it doesn't get many miles the last few years and I figured I'd just be wasting my money. The oil in it now is over a year old and probably doesn't have 1000 miles on it.
Mark
I just changed the pistons in my 124 mill. I had the 10w60 Liqui Moly in it when I swapped the pistons out so I left it in. I did the heat cycles and took it out for it's 1st 50 mile break in run to seat the rings. That ride turned into a 160 mile ride before dumping the Liqui Moly and changing the oil and filter. I had some Valvoline 20w50 full synthetic sitting on the shelf...so I used it for the 2nd planned 100 mile oil change.
The engines valve train was much more noticeably noisier with the 20w50 in it. I ran it for only 80 miles and I had to dump it and put the 10w60 Liqui Moly back in.
The valve train is much more noticeably quieter with the 10w60. :wink:
I really like this 10w60 Liqui Moly.
Ray
The only issue I have seen with the Moly is some foaming in my catch can. I am slightly concerned that there may be foam in the rocker cover. But not too concerned. I too like how quiet the ride is with this stuff. Never thought oil would affect so much but for me it does. As Ray says
The valve train is much more noticeably quieter with the 10w60. :wink:
I really like this 10w60 Liqui Moly.
Quote from: Jaycee1964 on October 11, 2014, 05:06:17 AM
The only issue I have seen with the Moly is some foaming in my catch can. I am slightly concerned that there may be foam in the rocker cover. But not too concerned. I too like how quiet the ride is with this stuff. Never thought oil would affect so much but for me it does. As Ray says
The valve train is much more noticeably quieter with the 10w60. :wink:
I really like this 10w60 Liqui Moly.
Jaycee...I recently had my top end apart as you probably know. The engine was hot when I put it up on the lift...right after I rode it home from work. I put a fan on the engine for about 5 minutes and I started pulling it apart.
Maybe 30 minutes into it...I was pulling the rocker box lids off. The oil sitting in the corners of the lower rocker boxes looked like it was just poured out of the jug. No evidence of aeration in the oil, or foaming...just pretty looking golden oil.
I liked seeing that.
Ray
Well I put it in my S&S shovel this morning. It does come back to the oil tank foamy but every oil I ever ran has done that. Motor seems slightly more quiet than the low mile 20-50 dino that was in it.
Mark
Quote from: No Cents on October 11, 2014, 05:17:15 AM
Quote from: Jaycee1964 on October 11, 2014, 05:06:17 AM
The only issue I have seen with the Moly is some foaming in my catch can. I am slightly concerned that there may be foam in the rocker cover. But not too concerned. I too like how quiet the ride is with this stuff. Never thought oil would affect so much but for me it does. As Ray says
The valve train is much more noticeably quieter with the 10w60. :wink:
I really like this 10w60 Liqui Moly.
Jaycee...I recently had my top end apart as you probably know. The engine was hot when I put it up on the lift...right after I rode it home from work. I put a fan on the engine for about 5 minutes and I started pulling it apart.
Maybe 30 minutes into it...I was pulling the rocker box lids off. The oil sitting in the corners of the lower rocker boxes looked like it was just poured out of the jug. No evidence of aeration in the oil, or foaming...just pretty looking golden oil.
I liked seeing that.
Ray
Good to know. I'll ignore and carry on... When are you gonna get smart and put zippers on your ride?............. I pick things up and put them down, I tear it down and put it back....
:gob:
When I pulled my front lifters and Pushrods, It felt MORE sticky on the P-rods and the lifters... Coating very Nicely Not running Dry when sitting a couple days and AFTER a HOT ride...
Felt more like a assembly lube... :scratch: my head wondering, What The Hay? and put a finger into the remains of the 5 ltr jug (kept at 70+ degrees constant in my Garage)... Felt like the feel off the p-rod and lifters.
Try some between the fingers and SEE... Was I Imagining?
Spinning the lifter rollers, I could really feel the Lube in them. Of-corse gaterman do lube the rollers good by using the Hole under pressure to Boot..
I'd just have to say 10w60 was Sticking very nicely to the Lifters and The P-rods. MAYBE this Moly will Prove Out to be better than my Redline... :embarrassed:
I Don't remember that feel with my 20/50 redline...
Just Say'n
signed....BUBBIE
Zippers? ...I wanted to use Zipper's new RS687 cams...but I didn't have enough valve to piston clearance for them.
Does that count? :hyst:
Ray
Quote from: 76shuvlinoff on October 11, 2014, 03:27:30 AM
...She will mark her place with a quarter size spot after a run...
Mark
She'll probably mark her place with a silver dollar
nipple size spot after a run.
Well i am at 4700 miles on this oil change and I took off my remote head/intake breather filter and cleaned it because it looked nasty. Yurns out I had a nice aereated froth of clean white honey in it. Decided to check oil level again, not burning, smells fresh, looks like a nice light beer color-still yellow.
Bubbie it does seem kind of sticky. Not sure why.
Can't wait to see the oil report when i change it next month.
Going to have to goto the shop to have it done. Living in a apartment in Birmingham. Got a new job and won't be in a new house until Jan/Feb.
Anyone have advice pros/cons of local dealers and Indy's?
Take care y'all will check in as I
:chop: can
Quote from: Mountainman streetbob on October 14, 2014, 10:38:42 AM
aereated froth of clean white honey in it
That is exactly what I am seeing in my catch can. If I dump it on cardboard it will keep that frothy foam for a couple weeks! This is my only concern for this oil is the foaming. I don't see it in my oil bag, only in the catch can.
Quote from: Jaycee1964 on October 14, 2014, 11:54:52 AM
Quote from: Mountainman streetbob on October 14, 2014, 10:38:42 AM
aereated froth of clean white honey in it
That is exactly what I am seeing in my catch can. If I dump it on cardboard it will keep that frothy foam for a couple weeks! This is my only concern for this oil is the foaming. I don't see it in my oil bag, only in the catch can.
NOT having any FOAM in that Up-side Tank is a Miracle :hyst:
signed....B UBBIE
Quote from: Mountainman streetbob on October 14, 2014, 10:38:42 AM
Going to have to goto the shop to have it done. Living in a apartment in Birmingham. Got a new job and won't be in a new house until Jan/Feb.
Anyone have advice pros/cons of local dealers and Indy's?
Take care y'all will check in as I
:chop: can
You don't have to take it in. Go to walmart and buy an aluminum cooking pan big enough to hold 4 qts of oil, the disposable kind, yet small enough to fit under your bike.
Take your new 10W60 and new filter to your local auto parts or the back side of walmart, change it out, pour used oil back into the containers the new oil cam in, go around the corner and dump it into the recycling container. Toss now-empty plastic and the aluminum pan in the trash. Alternatively, look for a discarded 5 qt oil jug in the trash and dump used oil in there so you can keep your left over 2 liters in the 5 liter jug of 10w60.
I've done this several times while on cross country trips and wanted fresh oil.
Quote from: r0de_runr on October 15, 2014, 11:12:20 PM
Quote from: Mountainman streetbob on October 14, 2014, 10:38:42 AM
Going to have to goto the shop to have it done. Living in a apartment in Birmingham. Got a new job and won't be in a new house until Jan/Feb.
Anyone have advice pros/cons of local dealers and Indy's?
Take care y'all will check in as I
:chop: can
You don't have to take it in. Go to walmart and buy an aluminum cooking pan big enough to hold 4 qts of oil, the disposable kind, yet small enough to fit under your bike.
Take your new 10W60 and new filter to your local auto parts or the back side of walmart, change it out, pour used oil back into the containers the new oil cam in, go around the corner and dump it into the recycling container. Toss now-empty plastic and the aluminum pan in the trash. Alternatively, look for a discarded 5 qt oil jug in the trash and dump used oil in there so you can keep your left over 2 liters in the 5 liter jug of 10w60.
I've done this several times while on cross country trips and wanted fresh oil.
Great advice. :)
What would you expect for mileage between oil changes under normal (not extreme) conditions? Been changing Redline about every 3000.
I have yet to see a blackstone lab report for a healthy twin cam running redline, amsoil or other high quality synthetics where the oil isn't good PAST 5000 miles. Even at 7500 miles I have not seen a report yet where the oil wasn't excellent.
Quote from: HarleyFranco on October 04, 2014, 04:08:37 PM
Based on the feedback in this thread I bought some of the Liqui Moli.
I am just wondering if anyone has put the extra quart into the primary?
Frank
Good question... going to change all oils at season's end, would be good to know if anyone has used this in the primary.
I would Like ANY oil used in the Primary to say "Wet Clutch Approved" OR said to be by the company who makes the oil...
Many oils/lubes are used in the primary's but not Many saying anything about wet clutch approved..
I'll keep my Trusty Old oil I use MTL... Quite a few of the builders here and the Knowledgeable Ones use Redline's MTL for Primary and Shockproof for the Tranny...
Just replaced my gaters with old NEW "B"s I had on the shelf and the pushrods were really Sticky with the 10w60 Moly I have in my bike... About 3,000 miles on the oil and still very clean light color pumping good thru-out the motor... Lifters were Not damaged in any way just a little tap started. It might have been able to adjust out but I had 27,000 on the gators and the "B"s waiting.
I see that the gatermans ARE so much better designed with the 4 pressured oil holes compared to the "B"s One hole... I'll probably buy a new set of them when the "B"s show signs of wear...
That Moly is sure covering the part with its protective sticky oil after shut down of the engine from what I can tell...
Not an oil war please,,,,, Just say'n what has been used by the $mart Ones here... :hyst:
signed....$UBBIE
http://www.dynacycleoil.com/ (http://www.dynacycleoil.com/) this is stated to be the best, none better and it makes more power.
I know Bubbie no oil wars but for some winter has started all ready so buckle up and enjoy the ride.
Quote from: Gmr-Performance on November 04, 2014, 07:03:45 AM
http://www.dynacycleoil.com/ (http://www.dynacycleoil.com/) this is stated to be the best, none better and it makes more power.
I know Bubbie no oil wars but for some winter has started all ready so buckle up and enjoy the ride.
New from Ronco!
But WAIT!! There's more!!
12,000 mile oil
Motor oil is supposed to get dirty, that's why they put a detergent into it as part of the additive package, engine produces dirt in the form of the products of combustion and what is not trapped and filtered by the air filter among others.
The oil filter is like a little warehouse for the dirt so the oil can keep doing it's job, eventually you drain out the old oil at the end of it's lifespan, or because your bored and anal and you replace the little dirt warehouse too.
Or you clean your little warehouse in your new ultrasonic cleaner because your really bored and really anal, LOL!
Mike
Quote from: mrmike on November 04, 2014, 05:52:37 PM
Or you clean your little warehouse in your new ultrasonic cleaner because your really bored and really anal, LOL!
Mike
Is this a jab at me Mike? :scratch:
Ray
Quote from: No Cents on November 04, 2014, 06:19:23 PM
Quote from: mrmike on November 04, 2014, 05:52:37 PM
Or you clean your little warehouse in your new ultrasonic cleaner because your really bored and really anal, LOL!
Mike
Is this a jab at me Mike? :scratch:
Ray
Wait for it..... Wait for it...... :hyst: Don't worry Ray, I bought one of them too and love the thing.
Jab?
Not at all Ray, just acknowledging all the things we do that we probably don't have to but do anyway cause why the hell not?
And to be perfectly truthful after I saw the pic of your little cleaner I went on line looking as well, it'll go great with the 20 gallon parts cleaner I couldn't pass up because the price was right.... duh, even my kid was shaking his head at me.
You see we all have the sickness and without even trying we're all one upping each other raising the bar on the insanity.
So.....
it's just a nod and a wink from one nut to another.
Mike
Has any one had this oil tested after a few 1000 miles yet
Getting ready to change mine as soon as I get a day off and this plant is running. 5400 miles and counting
Seems to me that I read somewhere that during development of the Twin Cam motor they had a bunch of issues and a big struggle with heat, oil, etc. The final cure came in modifications to slow the flow of oil to the heads. I don't remember all the details but I sure think I would like to find that article again every time oil is discussed for Twin Cams. Does anyone else remember that issue being covered?
jimbob
:oil:
I do remember that TOO Much oil in the head area wasn't needed as it Did cause the oil to over heat...
Where to find that? maybe someone will remember..
Where is Max when you need him? Probably corroding tools in His tool box, just sitting in there and waiting to answer such a question... Eh Max ? :hyst:
signed....BUBBIE
mrmike... I agree with you whole heartedly..... oil that stays clean for the "duration" is NOT doing it's job!
If it's clean when you drain it , then IT IS NOT carrying out the contaminants that all used oils have, so where then are the contaminants?? This seems to be "flavor of the month"! jmo :potstir:
I believe oil changes Color and also Viscosity from the heat. Some oils dissipate more heat faster than others, maintaining light Color and Viscosity. I'm thinking this 10w60 moly does just that and will stay clearer/lighter for a longer time AND still catch the contaminants... :oil:
A sample out Might prove this... :fish:
JMO
signed....BUBBIE
(http://t.fod4.com/t/0a05238e3f/c480x270_65.jpg)
Quote from: kristian on November 08, 2014, 11:26:53 PM
(http://t.fod4.com/t/0a05238e3f/c480x270_65.jpg)
:agree: :gob: has to be true... it's on the internet! :dgust:
Quote from: No Cents on July 22, 2014, 02:19:20 PM
:up:
thanks Panzer...but I've known for quit a long time what the #'s stood for when it comes to different blends of oil.
0W gets the oil faster to the top of an engine vs 10W or 20W...and the 2nd # is for the thickness of the oil.
It's too late on cancelling the order...it's already in the bike.
Ray
always thought that 10w60 is simply 10 weight oil that gives the same protection as 60 weight when at full temps.
Same with all multi grades.
Quote from: kristian on November 08, 2014, 11:26:53 PM
(http://t.fod4.com/t/0a05238e3f/c480x270_65.jpg)
:up:
Max
Quote from: BUBBIE on November 08, 2014, 01:23:10 PM
:oil:
I do remember that TOO Much oil in the head area wasn't needed as it Did cause the oil to over heat...
Where to find that? maybe someone will remember..
Where is Max when you need him? Probably corroding tools in His tool box, just sitting in there and waiting to answer such a question... Eh Max ? :hyst:
signed....BUBBIE
HEY Max,
Get Your Miracle over here and Answer this Statement about Heat from too much oil in the heads Please...
[/size]
signed....BUBBIE
Quote from: BUBBIE on November 11, 2014, 04:47:35 PM
Quote from: BUBBIE on November 08, 2014, 01:23:10 PM
:oil:
I do remember that TOO Much oil in the head area wasn't needed as it Did cause the oil to over heat...
Where to find that? maybe someone will remember..
Where is Max when you need him? Probably corroding tools in His tool box, just sitting in there and waiting to answer such a question... Eh Max ? :hyst:
signed....BUBBIE
HEY Max,
Get Your Miracle over here and Answer this Statement about Heat from too much oil in the heads Please...
[/size]
signed....BUBBIE
The statement was made in "the harley davidson century" page 299.. Ol' Donney also got that info when interviewing an engineer at HD IIRC.
Max
:pop:
Like to Hear Your Opinion anyways... :fish:
Thanks if you would
signed.... BUBBIE
how are you getting too much oil to be in the top of the heads?
Is the breather assembly clogged...or do you think the lifters are pumping too much oil upstairs?
I don't think I've ran into that problem before.
This has me curious now.
Ray
[quote author=wavlovr1 link=topic=75005.msg859508#msg859508 date=1415477011]
Seems to me that I read somewhere that during development of the Twin Cam motor they had a bunch of issues and a big struggle with heat, oil, etc. The final cure came in modifications to slow the flow of oil to the heads. I don't remember all the details but I sure think I would like to find that article again every time oil is discussed for Twin Cams. Does anyone else remember that issue being covered?
jimbob
[/quote]
Ray,
Above is where I got my Question/Statement from...
I do remember here on HTT a discussion about it. Not remembering where nor how long ago on the forum.
I do remember then; statements saying "Too much oil was not needed as it Did Over Heat the oil" "Making an oil cooking operation" (my quotes) :oil:
signed....BUBBIE
that is what puzzles me. I don't understand how they could slow the flow of oil to the heads.
Did they accomplish this by the lifters not pumping the volume of oil that they were?
I think the oil pump would have been designed wrong in the beginning development stages and adjustments had to be made from there if this was the case. I would hope that the MOCO discovered this in their initial testing before the engine went into production.
I can see if the rocker box filled up with oil it would become a big baking oven with excessive oil being trapped up top...but it seems the pressure would be so high that it would be leaking oil profusely from the rocker box gaskets.
I'd like to read that article...or thread myself. It has my interest peaked now.
Ray
Quote from: No Cents on November 11, 2014, 05:45:16 PM
that is what puzzles me. I don't understand how they could slow the flow of oil to the heads.
Did they accomplish this by the lifters not pumping the volume of oil that they were?
I think the oil pump would have been designed wrong in the beginning development stages and adjustments had to be made from there if this was the case. I would hope that the MOCO discovered this in their initial testing before the engine went into production.
I can see if the rocker box filled up with oil it would become a big baking oven with excessive oil being trapped up top...but it seems the pressure would be so high that it would be leaking oil profusely from the rocker box gaskets.
I'd like to read that article...or thread myself. It has my interest peaked now.
Ray
Oil pressure would probably drop as there wouldn't be any oil supply for the pump!
Remember Max saying to the fact of Modifying the inners of a lifter.....to someone here lately on the forum.... TO enlarge the holes or change out the piddle valve (metering) so it will pump More oil up thru the pushrod.
MY Wording Not His......
A while back I asked FSG some questions and got answers about the same thing...
In a PM to me..Partial quote from my pm FSG sent me...
Hope he doesn't mind my posting some of his information :Partial edited PM by me.....
............open the lifters and remove the disc from under the PR Seat. But depending on the type of lifter there may not be a disc. Side feed lifters such as the newer -99C's and the Gatermans don't use a traditional piddle valve to control the oil flow to the top end.
rgd's"
Maybe FSG might elaborate some on this? Thanks if he does...
signed....BUBBIE
I've read of over oiling factory shovel heads. My S&S "shovel" top end oils thru PRs like evos and TCs. I thought the point was more cooler oil faster.
Mark
Quote from: BUBBIE on November 11, 2014, 04:47:35 PM
Quote from: BUBBIE on November 08, 2014, 01:23:10 PM
:oil:
I do remember that TOO Much oil in the head area wasn't needed as it Did cause the oil to over heat...
Where to find that? maybe someone will remember..
Where is Max when you need him? Probably corroding tools in His tool box, just sitting in there and waiting to answer such a question... Eh Max ? :hyst:
signed....BUBBIE
HEY Max,
Get Your Miracle over here and Answer this Statement about Heat from too much oil in the heads Please...
[/size]
signed....BUBBIE
Myth!
QuoteDid they accomplish this by the lifters not pumping the volume of oil that they were?
Lifters don't pump oil to the top end.. They
meter it..
Max
Quote from: BUBBIE on November 11, 2014, 04:56:46 PM
:pop:
Like to Hear Your Opinion anyways... :fish:
Thanks if you would
signed.... BUBBIE
About what?
Max
I used the term Metering... Learned that from you a long while back in an Answered PM from you...
You can Usually elaborate on the issues without specific questions.....
IF you read the postings above and below the "IT's A MIRACLE" , you would have enough Questions to answer...
I looked for the book you said the information was in and on page 299... You have to Buy that book and thinking YOU should be able to answer from Your HAZY memory..Eh?
Information about too much oil in the heads as You Know and some Don't... I don't know how else to Ask the things you could put here to show what you know about this Oil to Head issue.
I don't want to Dance with you :hyst: so please Put some of YOUR Knowledge about the last several post for us to read.
Hey, It is winter for most and they can't ride...THEY will read though...
Thanks Max....
signed....BUBBIE
Spelling correction.....
I won't be trying the moly till next year now with onset of winter. Im planning to run all season without an oil change,with a oil test at end of next riding season.
I run exhaust lifters without the piddle valve, hence extra oil flow to help cool valve area, not enough extra oil to cause leaks.
If I remember right, HD reduced the spring pressure on the pump to reduce overall oil pressure.
The heads where filling up above the umbrellas and causing oil to run thru to the carb/efi filter assly's. Excess oil could not return fast enough thru the head drains, so sat there and got hot.
I recall this as being done before the TC hit the stands.
HD solved the issue by reducing the overall pressure to 32-35lbs @ 2500rpm, instead of closer to 50 originally setup.
At least that's how I remember it!! Buffalo
Quote from: BUBBIE on November 12, 2014, 08:45:30 AM
I used the term Metering... Learned that from you a long while back in an Answered PM from you...
You can Usually elaborate on the issues without specific questions.....
IF you read the postings above and below the "IT's A MIRACLE" , you would have enough Questions to answer...
I looked for the book you said the information was in and on page 299... You have to Buy that book and thinking YOU should be able to answer from Your HAZY memory..Eh?
Information about too much oil in the heads as You Know and some Don't... I don't know how else to Ask the things you could put here to show what you know about this Oil to Head issue.
I don't want to Dance with you :hyst: so please Put some of YOUR Knowledge about the last several post for us to read.
Hey, It is winter for most and they can't ride...THEY will read though...
Thanks Max....
signed....BUBBIE
Spelling correction.....
Well you didn't
use write the term metering in the quote I copied.. :scratch:
I only posted the book page number as reference.. It sits on the shelf.. Did you want want a reference or theory?
Not sure what you are asking but the book states that initially HD had issues with oil temps being too high and the couldn't figure out why.. Its one of the reasons that TC have a bunch more cooling fins.. They were trying to keep the motor cool.. IIRC marketing types felt that an oil cooler was a bandaid. At one point they started limiting flow to different areas.. They found that when they cut flow to the heads, oil temps dropped something like 30 degrees.. They figured that they had been trying to use the oil to cool the heads but it really wasn't cooling them only heating up the oil..
Max
Quote from: Buffalo on November 12, 2014, 09:14:51 AM
If I remember right, HD reduced the spring pressure on the pump to reduce overall oil pressure.
The heads where filling up above the umbrellas and causing oil to run thru to the carb/efi filter assly's. Excess oil could not return fast enough thru the head drains, so sat there and got hot.
I recall this as being done before the TC hit the stands.
HD solved the issue by reducing the overall pressure to 32-35lbs @ 2500rpm, instead of closer to 50 originally setup.
At least that's how I remember it!! Buffalo
Would like to see that reference...
Max
Started out like this in post #184:
My Quote:
Remember Max saying to the fact of Modifying the inners of a lifter.....to someone here lately on the forum.... TO enlarge the holes or change out the piddle valve (metering) so it will pump More oil up thru the pushrod.
Metering is there and Not added later...
signed....BUBBIE
Thanks Max,,,,, for that information above and below.... I knew you had it in you !!! :slap: INFORMATION is what I meant... :hyst:
Quote from: BUBBIE on November 12, 2014, 09:40:37 AM
Started out like this in post #184:
My Quote:
Remember Max saying to the fact of Modifying the inners of a lifter.....to someone here lately on the forum.... TO enlarge the holes or change out the piddle valve (metering) so it will pump More oil up thru the pushrod.
Metering is there and Not added later...
signed....BUBBIE
There was a guy having trouble with getting oil to the top end.. I only suggested removing the piddle plate as a test. I wouldn't run it that way for any time other than to validate flow to the rockers.
Max
Back to the 10w60 moly... :hug:
I think it would Not matter IF you use 10w or a straight 60w IF heated up HOT (230*), it should drain back down and not Build up oil in the heads...
Many have enlarged the oil return holes and That may have helped to assure oil out...
signed....BUBBIE
oil in a motor is not there for cooling per se, no? :scratch:
Has anyone sent this stuff in for an oil analysis?
Curious what viscosity is comes in at after 3-4000 miles.
Part of its job. Absorb and move heat to a more desirable location.
About 18k miles on piddleless exhaust lifters, no ill effects that I have found. Can't say that it's added any benefit to the exhaust valve train, i dont have equipment for measuring that.
clawdog,
Have you Looked to see how much oil is Getting to your exhaust rocker arm area in the head?
Weren't you the one Max suggested to open the lifter piddle to get more oil up top?
signed....BUBBIE
That was other member with rocker bushings wearing prematurely and he thought he wasn't getting enough oil up through the pr's. I think he was running feulings lifters so pulling piddle out was suggested, then check rocker box oiling.
Quote from: BUBBIE on November 13, 2014, 08:10:25 AM
clawdog,
Have you Looked to see how much oil is Getting to your exhaust rocker arm area in the head?
Weren't you the one Max suggested to open the lifter piddle to get more oil up top?
signed....BUBBIE
Quote from: BUBBIE on November 13, 2014, 08:10:25 AM
clawdog,
Have you Looked to see how much oil is Getting to your exhaust rocker arm area in the head?
Weren't you the one Max suggested to open the lifter piddle to get more oil up top?
signed....BUBBIE
I did check rock box oiling after exhaust piddle removal, i guesstimate double amount of oil on exhaust spring/valve area, revved engine still didnt try to overflow the box. Yeah if you had a worn out valve seal or guide you would likely blow some smoke.
Any New-Bees using this oil? Any further Reports?
I'm right at 3,000 miles on the first fill... It has turned a very Faint tan but still very clear looking, seeing all the marks on the dip-stick thru it.
Right up on the proper level. It has seen some Hot weather rides but no over heating in town as I'm a go around and By-Pass the cities country boy...
Cooling here in SE Az. this time of year. Doesn't have the Heat to cause motor to Run HOT like a couple months ago.
Plan on changing it at 4,000 miles...
I should send in sample when it is closer to the 4,000 mile mark.
Next dropped oil and fill should be close to 100% Moly. The remnants of the small amount of 20/50 redline should be mixed out by/on the second change.
Have my "B" lifters installed, replacing the gaters 1023's. Now it's back to the old sewing machine sound with the 255 school bus cams.
signed....BUBBIE
Will this topic go hand in hand with our other Mr.Poindexter topic?
Well, Lets see what he has to say.......
Calling Mr. eddiepoindexter Your expertise is needed here. OR What have you to say please... :oil:
signed....BUBBIE
:missed:
Got a PM answer from Eddie, :fish:
My wording:
Eddie saying No experience with the Moly we have here.....(no oil wars :hyst:)
He Strictly uses Mobil-1, MTL in Primary's then polishes it off Nicely with Redline ShockProof Heavy in his Tranny's... Saying "he changes them OFTEN and has used that combo for many years and rides... Never Had Any Problems from using his mentioned lube...
(Thanks Eddie)
signed....BUBBIE
Good info here. Thanks!
I drained my 10w60 Liqui Moly today to put some Mobil 1 synthetic 15w50 in for the winter.
I had no metal on the drain plug magnet...and I cut the K&N filter open and it had no metal in there either.
I used a fine cheese cloth and strained the oil from my drain pan into my 5 gallon re-cycle jug.
No metal at all...even thru the quad layered cheese cloth. The oil did darken to almost a black color.
This 10w60 is my new summer time oil...for sure.
Ray
RAy,
Are you sending a sample away?
Quote from: No Cents on November 23, 2014, 02:58:34 PM
I drained my 10w60 Liqui Moly today to put some Mobil 1 synthetic 15w50 in for the winter.
I had no metal on the drain plug magnet...and I cut the K&N filter open and it had no metal in there either.
I used a fine cheese cloth and strained the oil from my drain pan into my 5 gallon re-cycle jug.
No metal at all...even thru the quad layered cheese cloth. The oil did darken to almost a black color.
This 10w60 is my new summer time oil...for sure.
Ray
Stupid question, isn't the 10w better winter oil than 15w? I changed from redline 20w60 to 10w60 Valvoline VR1 synth (only available in Europe) and the engine seems to work better. The 10w60 LiquiMoly is twice as expensive as that here :emoGroan:
Just saw they make a Motorcycle version of this oil. Not the GT1.
http://www.amazon.com/LiquiMoly-Racing-Synth-10W-60-Pack/dp/B00MYI2ZH2/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1418234788&sr=8-4&keywords=4T+Synth+10W-60#productDetails (http://www.amazon.com/LiquiMoly-Racing-Synth-10W-60-Pack/dp/B00MYI2ZH2/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1418234788&sr=8-4&keywords=4T+Synth+10W-60#productDetails)
What's the difference, except the price? $60.00 vs $48.28
Does it specifie if for air or water cooled bikes?
10w-60 is designed for high temp, high load applications and used in several different race team bikes as well as air cooled BMW bikes and M cars
Quote from: Mountainman streetbob on December 11, 2014, 03:33:39 PM
10w-60 is designed for high temp, high load applications and used in several different race team bikes as well as air cooled BMW bikes and M cars
I thought the GT1 10w-60 was used in race team bikes as well and cars
Synthoil Race Tech GT1 10W-60
DESCRIPTION:
Synthoil Race Tech GT1 SAE 10W-60 is a modern, fully synthetic, high-performance engine oil formulated for use in four-stroke engines under extreme load. The combination of synthetic base oils and modern additive technology satisfies the requirements of the latest engine designs.
PROPERTIES:
Synthetic Technology.
Optimum lubrication under extreme conditions. With the wide-range viscosity 10 W-60 HD. High thermal stability. Optimizes engine performance. Immediate lubrication during cold starting and significantly improved wear protection. Extremely low oil consumption and evaporation loss. Outstanding engine cleanliness.
Fine tuned to the demands of the latest generation power units (multi-valve and turbocharged).
APPLICATION:
For gas and diesel engines with and without turbocharging. Especially suitable for extreme engine requirements and racing.
Specifications / Approvals:
API SL/CF
Preferred by BMW "M" series owners.
INSTRUCTIONS:
The operating instructions of the vehicle and engine manufacturers must be followed.
Synthoil Race Tech GT1 10W-60
5 Liter
Part no. LM2024
Case Qty 4 Jugs
1 Liter
Part no. LM2068
Case Qty 6 Jugs
Our
Here is the direct link to their website for your reading:
http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/produktdb.nsf/id/en_1525.html?OpenDocument&land=DE (http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/produktdb.nsf/id/en_1525.html?OpenDocument&land=DE)
I see no difference between the 4T vs GT1 10W60
4T specs
http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/mediendb.nsf/gfx2/1525%20Motorbike%20Synth%204T%20SAE%2010W-60_EN.pdf/ (http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/mediendb.nsf/gfx2/1525%20Motorbike%20Synth%204T%20SAE%2010W-60_EN.pdf/)$file/1525%20Motorbike%20Synth%204T%20SAE%2010W-60_EN.pdf
GT1 specs
http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/mediendb.nsf/gfx2/1390%20Synthoil%20Race%20Tech%20GT1%20SAE%2010W-60_EN.pdf/ (http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/mediendb.nsf/gfx2/1390%20Synthoil%20Race%20Tech%20GT1%20SAE%2010W-60_EN.pdf/)$file/1390%20Synthoil%20Race%20Tech%20GT1%20SAE%2010W-60_EN.pdf
Except the cost
Has anyone had their 10W60 analyzed yet? Still running what I put in in September. Have not ridden 3000 miles yet. Want to go 5000.
Been following this thread. Going to switch over once I get 5k on this new motor. Wouldn't mind seeing some member oil analysis but still gunna give it a try.
Ray (No Cents) did an oil change (post #209) in November. Maybe he sent a sample out? :missed:
I do PLAN to send out a sample to get What they think on my under 30,000 miles on 09 King with new 103 build,,,,, using higher compression and SE255 cams. Never Ever any metal on the magnet at change time (before)... 3500 miles on the 10w60 Moly oil now (4000 will change) and it is Still very light in tan color IF tan at all...
signed....BUBBIE
Just broke a little over 6000 miles, still a nice light honey colored, at some point we will get above 29* again and I will feel like riding! I like the south because it rarely freezes! It was warmer in just about every western state than it was in ALABAMA this week!
Impressive still has that good of color with that many miles. Can't wait to try it.
Winter in midwest F'n totally sucks.
Quote from: clawdog60 on January 11, 2015, 11:38:51 AM
Impressive still has that good of color with that many miles. Can't wait to try it.
Winter in midwest F'n totally sucks.
Winter anywhere that they have to salt the roads F'n sucks. My idea winter is a balmy 80* with sun tan lotion on... F'n hate it...
Gotta move soon..
exactly. :turd:. Tuscon here i come.
Ordered a :oil: test collection kit from Blackstone today (free until they Test).... Anybody have a different Test Lab they use? and Less than 25$ and 10$ for the better test?
Well anyways, IT Is Com'n SOON...... :pop:
signed....BUBBIE
I used a test kit I got from an aircraft mechanic maybe ten years ago for $10.00 and after that I used Blackstone. The Blackstone was more detailed. I don't remember the last price I paid for Blackstone.
Changed oil today and went with the LiquiMoly 10w60 oil. Went on a 60 mile ride and all the ticky tick crap between 2000-2500 rpm seems to be all but eliminated. Going to do another 100 tomorrow so we shall see if its my imagination or not.
Quote from: Teardrop on January 17, 2015, 06:40:11 PM
Changed oil today and went with the LiquiMoly 10w60 oil. Went on a 60 mile ride and all the ticky tick crap between 2000-2500 rpm seems to be all but eliminated. Going to do another 100 tomorrow so we shall see if its my imagination or not.
Not cool... Haven't ridden in 1.5 months here. only 5* for a high today..... Rub it in eh...
Quote from: Jaycee1964 on January 17, 2015, 06:59:31 PM
Quote from: Teardrop on January 17, 2015, 06:40:11 PM
Changed oil today and went with the LiquiMoly 10w60 oil. Went on a 60 mile ride and all the ticky tick crap between 2000-2500 rpm seems to be all but eliminated. Going to do another 100 tomorrow so we shall see if its my imagination or not.
Not cool... Haven't ridden in 1.5 months here. only 5* for a high today..... Rub it in eh...
Not trying to rub it in I just can't believe it actually took away the noise besides it's a dirty job but someone has to live where you can ride year around. :chop:
I've got this oil in both my 103 TC and even my 93" S&S shovel. It was later in the season so neither got enough miles for an oil change before winter hit so I am hanging around waiting to see if anyone has sent any in for high mileage analysis before I buy more for the next change. I didn't miss it did I?
Mark
It will be interesting to see if the oil shears down a grade or two. Mobile 1 15w50 sheared down to a 30 wt in my twin cam after 4k miles.
Quote from: flhr on January 18, 2015, 05:58:13 AM
It will be interesting to see if the oil shears down a grade or two. Mobile 1 15w50 sheared down to a 30 wt in my twin cam after 4k miles.
Huh. Got any particulars on that? 02 Dyna, with oil cooler, M1 15-50 was still at 94% after 5,000 miles. They suggested I run it to 6,000 and test again.
cst viscosity @100 degrees C was 14.29, tbn was still at a 7.0, sus viscosity @210F was 75.1. According to the tbn I could have ran it a lot longer. VR1 20w50 was at 90.7 sus viscosity and 18.15 cst viscosity after 5k miles
Quote from: Templer on July 18, 2014, 07:44:56 AM
If NASCAR uses Mobile 1 (5w-20w) in motors that get high rpm and 220* oil temps then what is the draw back to using it for a HD? The pressure will still be the same and the V-Twin MOTORCYCLE still doesn't cost as much as a NASCAR MOTOR. Anyone try aircraft oil? Air cooled? Are we looking for longevity or performance or best of both ? I WANT A 200MPH, 200,000 mile 200 HP 10second BUTT HAULER That never needs oil change !!!!!! We spend $$$$$$$ on our bikes anyway. Some change oil every 2k miles. WTF use/swap the oil from the person who changes it @ 1500 miles. ECO friendly.,SOME just ADD (ANY TYPE) when needed (self changing)? Any one want to try ANYTHING other then OEM suggested (syn ) in there 2014 $40,000 + HD? If after reading all the HTT posts and NOISE FROM ? problems why not fix what you have to NOT MAKE THE NOISE!! PUT IN THICKER OIL?? TURN up the radio,install louder exhaust,put in ear plugs, full face helmet. When HD STOP making noise there is a PROBLEM????? The thicker oil stops noise. What causes that noise? The 2014 are quieter then previous models because they take out the noise BEFORE you get it. They still come up to "operating temp" and run same pressure as govern by the oil pump bypass. OEM or barn yard build? Try a alum oil filter with a 10 micron screen. MORE oil VOLUME and quieter. ASK ME HOW I KNOW? ANY OIL!!!!!!!
harley did fix all thoughs things by making the V rod . I'll just stick with M-1 15/50 from Walmart for 17.99 a 5 qt jug. It does all the same things as above .
Quote from: Iron horse on January 18, 2015, 07:58:25 PM
Quote from: Templer on July 18, 2014, 07:44:56 AM
If NASCAR uses Mobile 1 (5w-20w) in motors that get high rpm and 220* oil temps then what is the draw back to using it for a HD? The pressure will still be the same and the V-Twin MOTORCYCLE still doesn't cost as much as a NASCAR MOTOR. Anyone try aircraft oil? Air cooled? Are we looking for longevity or performance or best of both ? I WANT A 200MPH, 200,000 mile 200 HP 10second BUTT HAULER That never needs oil change !!!!!! We spend $$$$$$$ on our bikes anyway. Some change oil every 2k miles. WTF use/swap the oil from the person who changes it @ 1500 miles. ECO friendly.,SOME just ADD (ANY TYPE) when needed (self changing)? Any one want to try ANYTHING other then OEM suggested (syn ) in there 2014 $40,000 + HD? If after reading all the HTT posts and NOISE FROM ? problems why not fix what you have to NOT MAKE THE NOISE!! PUT IN THICKER OIL?? TURN up the radio,install louder exhaust,put in ear plugs, full face helmet. When HD STOP making noise there is a PROBLEM????? The thicker oil stops noise. What causes that noise? The 2014 are quieter then previous models because they take out the noise BEFORE you get it. They still come up to "operating temp" and run same pressure as govern by the oil pump bypass. OEM or barn yard build? Try a alum oil filter with a 10 micron screen. MORE oil VOLUME and quieter. ASK ME HOW I KNOW? ANY OIL!!!!!!!
harley did fix all thoughs things by making the V rod . I'll just stick with M-1 15/50 from Walmart for 17.99 a 5 qt jug. It does all the same things as above .
That's a really good price! :up:
Quote from: Teardrop on January 17, 2015, 06:40:11 PM
Changed oil today and went with the LiquiMoly 10w60 oil. Went on a 60 mile ride and all the ticky tick crap between 2000-2500 rpm seems to be all but eliminated. Going to do another 100 tomorrow so we shall see if its my imagination or not.
What was the verdict after the 100 mile ride? I've been watching this thread for months now. Pretty much convinced me to give the brand a try in my 110. Still waiting for someone to post the results of testing of the used oil. :pop:
Quote from: jachd17 on January 19, 2015, 02:34:05 PM
Quote from: Teardrop on January 17, 2015, 06:40:11 PM
Changed oil today and went with the LiquiMoly 10w60 oil. Went on a 60 mile ride and all the ticky tick crap between 2000-2500 rpm seems to be all but eliminated. Going to do another 100 tomorrow so we shall see if its my imagination or not.
What was the verdict after the 100 mile ride? I've been watching this thread for months now. Pretty much convinced me to give the brand a try in my 110. Still waiting for someone to post the results of testing of the used oil. :pop:
I rode about 125 miles yesterday in both stop and go traffic and high speed freeway riding and the bike is still quieter than it has been since the day I bought it. The real test will come this summer when the temps on the freeway can reach north of 125*. So far this oil is performing as advertised.
Quote from: flhr on January 18, 2015, 02:29:50 PM
cst viscosity @100 degrees C was 14.29, tbn was still at a 7.0, sus viscosity @210F was 75.1. According to the tbn I could have ran it a lot longer. VR1 20w50 was at 90.7 sus viscosity and 18.15 cst viscosity after 5k miles
The oil has sheared down to the lower end of a 40 wgt. This is actually pretty good. Many oils in a Harley motor are in the 30 wgt range after 2000 miles.
Here is the chart for those that do not have one. http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/viscosity-charts/ (http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/viscosity-charts/)
:pop: :pop: :pop:
Took a sample at 3800 miles today... Shipping to Blackston on Friday... I'm sending 25$ regular testing and 10$ more for advanced testing....
I'll post the sheet here SOON..... :baby:
signed....BUBBIE
Just so YOU know.....
SAMPLE IS Sent in today.... I even peeled of the front and rear Oil Label off the 5 liter bottle and sent them in... :hyst:
I sent in 35$ along inside the shipping container for the Full Testing...
Might take a week or two :nix:
SOON......
signed....BUBBIE
:up: You da man Bubbie!!
Yeah thanx bubbie
Well I pushed it as long as I could and the oil looked brownie almost syrup/molasses after today's ride. 6352 miles... The sample is packed up and paid for, hopefully hear from blackstone by mid February.
No one can say this wasn't a torture test of the oil. 21*f to 105*f over 6352 miles.
Will be interesting to see whats left in the oil :-)
:pop:
kudos to you a BUBBIE for sending off samples. :up:
Ray
Quote from: No Cents on January 31, 2015, 06:04:23 PM
:pop:
kudos to you a BUBBIE for sending off samples. :up:
Ray
:up: :up: :up: :up:
:agree: :up:
Quote from: BUBBIE on January 12, 2015, 07:13:06 AM
Ordered a :oil: test collection kit from Blackstone today (free until they Test).... Anybody have a different Test Lab they use? and Less than 25$ and 10$ for the better test?
Well anyways, IT Is Com'n SOON...... :pop:
signed....BUBBIE
Lonnie
Try Empire in Mesa, they have a very impressive SOS lab and may deal with the general public.
http://www.empire-cat.com/fluidslab/ (http://www.empire-cat.com/fluidslab/)
Posting Bubbie's results.
[attach=0]
I have the Blackstone report back... VERY GOOD as you will see IF Coyote can add it here or another post.
I sent it to HTT Coyote to please put it on this thread as I don't Savvy the way to do it and Block out my address... Never want Un-expected Guest... :hug:
signed....BUBBIE
*************************
ADDED: while I typed this above you had yours on at the same time.
MAN You are Really FAST... Pity that Bird... BEEP BEEP my A$$..... :hyst:
Thanks Coyote.....
***************************
ALSO Please Remember: I came off of using good change/maintenance on my bike. I did use good oil before,,,Redline 20/50... KnN oil filters and Before way back HD filters.
103" Bored and fitted by Kirby prodrag1320... Nothing wearing Improperly... SMILE
Impressive.
Quote from: Mountainman streetbob on January 31, 2015, 04:48:19 PM
Well I pushed it as long as I could and the oil looked brownie almost syrup/molasses after today's ride. 6352 miles... The sample is packed up and paid for, hopefully hear from blackstone by mid February.
No one can say this wasn't a torture test of the oil. 21*f to 105*f over 6352 miles.
Will be interesting to see whats left in the oil :-)
Brice,
Your Report will show the Longer Term Mileage for sure... I have a feeling it will surprise us in being GOOD yet... we'll see.
signed....BUBBIE
That is an impressive report for that many miles. :up:
way to go BUBBIE! :up:
looks very good :up:
I'm going to keep running it...I like it.
Ray
Quote from: Coyote on February 03, 2015, 06:27:04 PM
Posting Bubbie's results.
[attach=0]
Can you post a comparison sheet between the moly and mobil v-twin
Glad I bought some. Im thinking ride a whole season on mine and send a sample 12/15 just for thoi. Inspect and clean the flo every 3k miles and only add oil as necessary.
Sweet looking report Bubbie! Now I am excited, Can't wait to see what pushing the envelope does to the oil.
With the few miles I got last year I must be good for 2 more seasons. :embarrassed:
Quote from: BUBBIE on February 03, 2015, 06:29:09 PMALSO Please Remember: I came off of using good change/maintenance on my bike. I did use good oil before,,,Redline 20/50... KnN oil filters and Before way back HD filters.
BUBBIE have you ever had a analysis done with Redline 20W-50? Just curious.
rbferg,
NO....
This is actually MY first oil analysis I have ever had done...ALWAYS,,, :hyst: Relied on Others to get er done...
No Cents said he had a person Knowledgeable that spoke Highly of Redline... I have only used it forever on my many Rides...
Hell, even my Miller 2 cylinder gas welder that has had severe work put to it over the years is still running Strong... (10w40 Redline winter and 20w50 Hot, down here in Az.)
Mr. No Cents RAY might put his thoughts in here on the Redline....
That good report is because I DID use a good GREAT oil before the moly...Redline 20w50... 20w60 when really Hot here...
signed....BUBBIE
10/30 will get the job done.. Still see no reason why the heavy oil is used. Roller bearing engine.. Oh well I will keep running the 10/30 in the 124 :potstir: Going on 13,000 miles now never a issue.. Good info though seems like good oil . Bubbie is using it so its got to be good :wink:
O.K. I'm convinced. Bubbie should get a commission from liqui-moly. Gonna try it in my 110 after watching this thread for months. If its good enough for Bubbie and No cents it good enough for me.
Quote from: BUBBIE on February 05, 2015, 02:57:21 PM
rbferg,
NO....
This is actually MY first oil analysis I have ever had done...ALWAYS,,, :hyst: Relied on Others to get er done...
No Cents said he had a person Knowledgeable that spoke Highly of Redline... I have only used it forever on my many Rides...
Hell, even my Miller 2 cylinder gas welder that has had severe work put to it over the years is still running Strong... (10w40 Redline winter and 20w50 Hot, down here in Az.)
Mr. No Cents RAY might put his thoughts in here on the Redline....
That good report is because I DID use a good GREAT oil before the moly...Redline 20w50... 20w60 when really Hot here...
signed....BUBBIE
I've been running Redline for several years in different bikes myself with no complaints whatsoever. The LiquiMoly does look impressive.
Quote from: Gmr-Performance on February 05, 2015, 03:03:22 PM
10/30 will get the job done.. Still see no reason why the heavy oil is used. Roller bearing engine.. Oh well I will keep running the 10/30 in the 124 :potstir: Going on 13,000 miles now never a issue.. Good info though seems like good oil . Bubbie is using it so its got to be good :wink:
Heck Steve, after I get all my parts for my engine going back together I'm going to fill it with 5w30 for break in just so I know oil is getting everywhere as soon as it starts.
Let the beatings commence.
Quote from: jachd17 on February 05, 2015, 03:03:38 PM
O.K. I'm convinced. Bubbie should get a commission from liqui-moly. Gonna try it in my 110 after watching this thread for months. If its good enough for Bubbie and No cents it good enough for me.
2 cents and no cents, what better recommendation do ya need? Who was it that was advocating 1023 Gatermans last year? :pop:
It's all entertainment right? -Rick
My 1023 gatermans had 26,000 miles on them. I took them out to see what they looked like. No problems with them, rolled smooth on the bearing but discoloration of the roller surface face (no peeling)... No Noise or tapping. Just was listening to Many others saying they had problems and I guess They did...
I put in a set of "B"s I had on the shelf, no difference noticed but THINKING they were better.. I would not Hesitate to use 1023 Gaterman lifters again...
IMHO......They are still one of the better designed lifters with Oil holes on each side the body (2) and one lower to feed oil to the rollers bearing and one UP on the top to oil the alignment surface against the pin...
Evidently: Just NO quality control when/where made. If the design was bad THEN I'd have called them CRAP...
Just Say'n
signed....BUBBIE
Quote from: 04 SE DEUCE on February 05, 2015, 09:47:07 PM
Quote from: jachd17 on February 05, 2015, 03:03:38 PM
O.K. I'm convinced. Bubbie should get a commission from liqui-moly. Gonna try it in my 110 after watching this thread for months. If its good enough for Bubbie and No cents it good enough for me.
2 cents and no cents, what better recommendation do ya need? Who was it that was advocating 1023 Gatermans last year? :pop:
It's all entertainment right? -Rick
Rick...I bought into the internet hype about the Gaterman 1023's being...or going bad. I ran my last set over 7,000 miles being pressed up against the .660 lift Tman 662-2 cams.
I had a weak moment buying into the high speed internet hype and I got scared and pulled mine out for inspection.
My 1023's were still in great shape when I pulled them out.
If you haven't noticed after the Gaterman lifter scare...I do not recommend any products to the members on the forum here.
There is way too much internet hype going on. I figured it would be best for me to not suggest a product to anyone anymore.
This is my Gaterman 1023's that I still have soaking in oil for a later date use. They almost look brand new.
[attach=0]
Ray
just saying, not ridiculing or down playing ya'll, but you folks and this oil, and lifters and cams are OCD...again, just saying, you should direct this energy to riding...LOL! :missed:
Quote from: Oclaf on February 06, 2015, 06:12:57 AM
just saying, not ridiculing or down playing ya'll, but you folks and this oil, and lifters and cams are OCD...again, just saying, you should direct this energy to riding...LOL! :missed:
Well, it's 4 degrees here, so no riding. Just gotta make do with oil threads.
And poop info.
Quote from: 06roadglide on February 05, 2015, 03:16:12 PM
Quote from: Gmr-Performance on February 05, 2015, 03:03:22 PM
10/30 will get the job done.. Still see no reason why the heavy oil is used. Roller bearing engine.. Oh well I will keep running the 10/30 in the 124 :potstir: Going on 13,000 miles now never a issue.. Good info though seems like good oil . Bubbie is using it so its got to be good :wink:
Heck Steve, after I get all my parts for my engine going back together I'm going to fill it with 5w30 for break in just so I know oil is getting everywhere as soon as it starts.
Let the beatings commence.
:hyst: YEA I guess I forget its winter else where in the country.. Oil is the dread of all threads in my opinion.
Example this is funny really.. My car has a printed oil cap that states mobile 1 oil.. SO being I have no desire to change oil in it I take it to a oil change place.. They will not put any oil in it other than mobile 1.. Not even if its syn and the same weight.. :banghead:
National chain " lube place" I ask how much 123.95 sir... I wonder if he was still looking at me as his front door was closing.. Off to the next place , they will change my oil with another brand IF I sign a waver that anything happens they are not held responsible. I ask like leaving the drain plug loose .. He smiles and says yes .. Out the door again..
I did find a shop that will use another brand and does not require a signed statement.. All over oil..
Scratch that label off the cap.
Quote from: Hossamania on February 06, 2015, 06:34:43 AM
Scratch that label off the cap.
That would be like this.. and then what the guy would have no idea what oil to use the world would slow down and entire nations would crash.. No I do not want to be that guy :potstir:
Totally legal, you are the consumer. Then put your own tag on, something like, "Just put oil in the damned thing!"
Oh hell!!! You think oil threads are bad here? (Forums for Harley)
Try looking at a bmw m3 forum. You'll be chastised for using anything other than Castrol TWS 10w60.
I've ran this liqui moly in it since I owned the car.
So would that Castrol oil be good in my Harley, or should I stick with my Pennzoil 10w30?
It's the equivalent to the liqui moly in this thread.....only half the price.
Quote from: 06roadglide on February 06, 2015, 06:57:39 AM
It's the equivalent to the liqui moly in this thread.....only half the price.
Blasphemer!
Quote from: 06roadglide on February 05, 2015, 03:16:12 PM
Quote from: Gmr-Performance on February 05, 2015, 03:03:22 PM
10/30 will get the job done.. Still see no reason why the heavy oil is used. Roller bearing engine.. Oh well I will keep running the 10/30 in the 124 :potstir: Going on 13,000 miles now never a issue.. Good info though seems like good oil . Bubbie is using it so its got to be good :wink:
Heck Steve, after I get all my parts for my engine going back together I'm going to fill it with 5w30 for break in just so I know oil is getting everywhere as soon as it starts.
Let the beatings commence.
No beatings from me. Very wise move, and your engine will thank you. Lifters pump up instantly and cyl flushing during those first few minutes makes all the difference on lack of scoring and eliminating glazing. 20/50, especially in cooler climates is a terrible oil to expose a first run engine to.
Ron
Quote from: rbabos on February 06, 2015, 07:14:55 AM
Quote from: 06roadglide on February 05, 2015, 03:16:12 PM
Quote from: Gmr-Performance on February 05, 2015, 03:03:22 PM
10/30 will get the job done.. Still see no reason why the heavy oil is used. Roller bearing engine.. Oh well I will keep running the 10/30 in the 124 :potstir: Going on 13,000 miles now never a issue.. Good info though seems like good oil . Bubbie is using it so its got to be good :wink:
Heck Steve, after I get all my parts for my engine going back together I'm going to fill it with 5w30 for break in just so I know oil is getting everywhere as soon as it starts.
Let the beatings commence.
No beatings from me. Very wise move, and your engine will thank you. Lifters pump up instantly and cyl flushing during those first few minutes makes all the difference on lack of scoring and eliminating glazing. 20/50, especially in cooler climates is a terrible oil to expose a first run engine to.
Ron
:agree:
And here I thought I was going to be picked on for that. :oil:
Keeping them cylinders washed with fresh oil was why I'm choosing to do that.
Quote from: 06roadglide on February 06, 2015, 07:17:17 AM
Quote from: rbabos on February 06, 2015, 07:14:55 AM
Quote from: 06roadglide on February 05, 2015, 03:16:12 PM
Quote from: Gmr-Performance on February 05, 2015, 03:03:22 PM
10/30 will get the job done.. Still see no reason why the heavy oil is used. Roller bearing engine.. Oh well I will keep running the 10/30 in the 124 :potstir: Going on 13,000 miles now never a issue.. Good info though seems like good oil . Bubbie is using it so its got to be good :wink:
Heck Steve, after I get all my parts for my engine going back together I'm going to fill it with 5w30 for break in just so I know oil is getting everywhere as soon as it starts.
Let the beatings commence.
No beatings from me. Very wise move, and your engine will thank you. Lifters pump up instantly and cyl flushing during those first few minutes makes all the difference on lack of scoring and eliminating glazing. 20/50, especially in cooler climates is a terrible oil to expose a first run engine to.
Ron
:agree:
And here I thought I was going to be picked on for that. :oil:
Keeping them cylinders washed with fresh oil was why I'm choosing to do that.
I'm surprised you weren't picked on. The higher then normal heat on the rings in the first cycles makes this lubing and flushing extremely important. Thicker oils won't to the job as well unless the viscosity has been thinned from heat. By the time the oil reached this point several not so good things might have happened as in unneeded lifter wear and a few lines in the cylinder. Thinner oil starts out ready to do the job. To get picked on you need to say something like 20/50 is too damn thick to run full time, which I also agree with but I think I will leave that topic alone. :hyst:
Ron
Maybe I should post up pics of my changing my oil and a close up of the 10/30 oil for summer ,.... winter blend is thinner HA HA Texas can get cold BRRRRRRRR :hyst:
Ron Ron Ron
Personally after giving this oil some thought I just prefer to not go there
I takes far too much quantity of polymers in the additive package to span 10-60W, plus the added moly IMHO does the same just adds volume to the additive package. Better to find an oil with an ester group V stable base oil that is a 10w-30 and tighten up the lifter bore clearances. :potstir:
Quote from: Hossamania on February 06, 2015, 06:55:15 AM
So would that Castrol oil be good in my Harley, or should I stick with my Pennzoil 10w30?
That was more of a slam against Pennzoil, not the weight!
Quote from: HD Street Performance on February 06, 2015, 07:46:54 AM
Ron Ron Ron
Personally after giving this oil some thought I just prefer to not go there
I takes far too much quantity of polymers in the additive package to span 10-60W, plus the added moly IMHO does the same just adds volume to the additive package. Better to find an oil with an ester group V stable base oil that is a 10w-30 and tighten up the lifter bore clearances. :potstir:
Ah So. True, the more polymer the less actual lube quality the remaining product has. This is where additives come into play to make up the short fall. Not a fan of moly especially with a shared engine trans of the v rod. Correct check valve pressure, which I think are too high on some of them based on the operating oil pressure of the big twin and low leak down rates might make up for the sloppy bores. Something I believe GMR lifters has addressed and the lower vis oil retains good lifter function to confirm that.
Ok , so you sucked me into this post but remember this. I can't convince people flooding the compensator with oil is a good thing, let alone branching out to the nuts and bolts of motor oil :hyst:
However, the next oil I use will be made from a natural gas base stock, Shell Advance Ultra 4T. Finally available from the depot in town. Half the price of Amsoil too.
Ron
And here all these yrs. I been thinking anything other than 20-50 in the oil hole would be a mortal sin and high crime! :scratch: I once accidentally put 10-40 in and ran it for about 1000k in the summer heat before changing it for "the right weight oil". I told no one about it til now!! :hyst:
Hello my name is Steve I run 10/30 oil in my harley in texas heat with a 124... ... WOW that felt great :gob:
Quote from: Gmr-Performance on February 06, 2015, 11:06:37 AM
Hello my name is Steve I run 10/30 oil in my harley in texas heat with a 124... ... WOW that felt great :gob:
Yay! It must feel great not be a 10/30 closet junkie any longer! :baby:
My engines start life with DTE heavy 30wt none detergent
So now we need a 12 step program for oil users?
I had also heard that oil with a large step ie: 10 to 60 was not as good as say a 20 to 40.
bwtfdik? :rtfb:
c'mon guys. those uf us who use this 10-60 want to discuss it amongst ourselves to make sure we are not screwing up our motors. If it works ok, it's cheap enough. This is not just another oil thread, this had real experiences and even Blackstone tests.
Please?
Quote from: MaxxV4 on February 06, 2015, 06:00:57 PM
So now we need a 12 step program for oil users?
I had also heard that oil with a large step ie: 10 to 60 was not as good as say a 20 to 40.
bwtfdik? :rtfb:
I've heard and read that also.
I suspect the liqui moly 10w60 came along when BMW had Castrol engineer an oil from their M series cars. BMW species this weight oil for their engines because the early S54 engine used 5w30 and that killed the rod bearings in those engines quickly. The 5w30 couldn't take the load demands of that engine, 333hp out of a NA 3.2L I6 engine.
Redline also makes a 10w60 along with a few others I think.
The Castrol oil resolved BMW's rod bearing issue and recommends a 15k mile change interval.
I think many of these 10w60 oils made for BMW M series engines would be a good oil, it's just the fact that most of us can get liqui moly at Napa, so it's easy to get if needed quickly.
simple 10-60 will not hurt the engine.. as long as most keep them. Long term who knows
..Testing wise .. a few oil samples do not mean much. You are looking for some huge increase in metal or break down of the oil in one or two samples, That's not going to happen..
I have done fleet testing on over 140 Semi tractors , That's 5600 qts of oil every 70 days, 28,000 qts of oil in one year ( engine only) with a year of testing we had a basic outlook on what we could see in terms of longer service life.
I have nothing against anyone running what ever oil they want.. Please carry on.
Problem is mostly a People issue, critical thinking
In other words goes like this..
If one oil is not the choice and a person chooses another (for sound reasons) an "either or" thinker that uses the other oil will think you are relaying a message
"He is saying my oil is crap and his choice is better"
Message from the brain (or lack of brain)
Enter fight or flight mode I am being attached.
Gentleman
There is room on top of the heap for many "best" products
All perform the job and truth be told about oil most will perform fine in our beloved Harleys.
Ron
We can't get the Shell here, looks like a very fine product. Very high VI number.
I wonder how Rotella Syn would compare. Certainly no good for a engine/trans combo but it too specs quite well and is a Walmart item.
Don...are you talking Rotella 5W40 syn?
I've ran that in my diesel pick up for years...good stuff.
Ray
Quote from: No Cents on February 07, 2015, 08:35:37 AM
Don...are you talking Rotella 5W40 syn?
I've ran that in my diesel pick up for years...good stuff.
Ray
Not Don, but 15/40 t6 would be decent.
Ron
HMMMM Rotella
HA HA :up: :up: I run the Rotella 10-30 And have done so for many years ..
10/30 in a Harley Twin cam. Shame on you. :angry: :wink:
Spending many years as a fleet manager and implementing an oil sample program I learned a lot about oil as it related to diesel fleets. Many of the same principals apply here. The heat and the extreme loads on valve train push any of the oils but many will work fine especially considering the typical demographic, myself included.
I think the T6 looks good to me 15w/40. Will have to check out the data sheets later
Don,
You mentioned the Elongation of the oil molecules to make the 10w60.
and said a V (5) oil...
The only one I know as a 5 is Redline... They use the Best to make their oil. ( I know there are a few more but NOT many)
The report back on my Build/Oil told me that I'd change at 5 thous. at the most. I see No real problem Stretching out the oil molecules to a 60 IF you change it early on. Heat and Friction is the Enemy and chewing them up so they are not a good lube, easy to do...
I usually don't go over 4 thous. on a change unless Out and about on a Long ride. Then it might hit 5,000 most.
Didn't know of your Oil Education.... Now we can pick another Brain... :hyst:
signed....BUBBIE
Quote from: HD Street Performance on February 07, 2015, 08:24:50 AM
Ron
We can't get the Shell here, looks like a very fine product. Very high VI number.
I wonder how Rotella Syn would compare. Certainly no good for a engine/trans combo but it too specs quite well and is a Walmart item.
Shell is a global monstrosity and this stuff is from the Malaisa plant. It would need to be ordered in from a local Shell depot in your area. The tech line gave me the product # and once I had that the depot could find it. Before that, they didn't have a clue. Then it's call Monday for a Thursday pick up. For me, it's a 1/4 mile.
550037980
Advance 4T Ultra 15W-50 (SM/MA2)
12-1L
Ron
Lonnie
Polymers = plastics
Heat and plastic =?
I prefer an oil that on oil sample would still have a low enough tan number to go 10k but I would change it sooner. That happens with good base stock and a smaller additive package.
Quote from: HD Street Performance on February 06, 2015, 07:46:54 AM
Ron Ron Ron
Personally after giving this oil some thought I just prefer to not go there
I takes far too much quantity of polymers in the additive package to span 10-60W, plus the added moly IMHO does the same just adds volume to the additive package. Better to find an oil with an ester group V stable base oil that is a 10w-30 and tighten up the lifter bore clearances. :potstir:
There is no more moly in liqui moly than there is in Mobile 1, Redline or Amsoil.....
Quote from: MaxxV4 on February 06, 2015, 06:00:57 PM
So now we need a 12 step program for oil users?
I had also heard that oil with a large step ie: 10 to 60 was not as good as say a 20 to 40.
bwtfdik? :rtfb:
As a general rule the smaller the step the better... HOWEVER
Oil technology is now to the place now that we can run 10/60 in temps from 30*-105* for up to 6000 miles and have as good performance at the end then we had after 3000 miles with the best oils just 10-15 years ago.
Quote from: Gmr-Performance on February 07, 2015, 09:01:48 AM
HMMMM Rotella
HA HA :up: :up: I run the Rotella 10-30 And have done so for many years ..
I know have a friend that has been running a fleet of 9 axle 105k# trucks on I5 in the mountains with Little motors, long lifetimes (retires thetrucks between 1.3-1.6 million miles), 50k oil changes... The guy that owns this fleet has been betting his livlihood on Rotella for 15-20 years... Never had a bearing failure that could be attributed to oil.
Sure couldn't hurt trying rotella 15w-40, similar heat, lighter bearing loads, long intervals, heavy detergents
Nothing wrong with Rotella.
For what it's worth :wink: I have come by a lot of this which I'm going to try out.
(http://i.imgur.com/MFUGuKF.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/nrkxbew.png)
Quote from: Mountainman streetbob on February 07, 2015, 12:54:41 PM
Quote from: MaxxV4 on February 06, 2015, 06:00:57 PM
So now we need a 12 step program for oil users?
I had also heard that oil with a large step ie: 10 to 60 was not as good as say a 20 to 40.
bwtfdik? :rtfb:
As a general rule the smaller the step the better... HOWEVER
Oil technology is now to the place now that we can run 10/60 in temps from 30*-105* for up to 6000 miles and have as good performance at the end then we had after 3000 miles with the best oils just 10-15 years ago.
You said a lot right there. Oils today are way better and in most cases the (heavier is better) no longer applies. Cars will soon be running 0w10 if not already in some.
Shell Rotella has always had a good rep and most of that comes from operating in fleets much like you described.
Ron
I believe my one ton Ford van uses 0-20.
Quote from: Hossamania on February 07, 2015, 04:53:14 PM
I believe my one ton Ford van uses 0-20.
The wife's 12 Taurus uses 5-20.
My wife's Mustang G.T also uses 5/20 wt. When I worked in a Mobil gas station back in 1976, the original Mobil 1 was a 5/20 wt.
Triton v-10's 5-20 any application
2008 Chevy Uplander 5w 30
Seems like my Chevys have been 5-30 since the 90s.
My 2007 Roush Stage 3 Mustang calls for 0W20 oil.
Ray
Quote from: No Cents on February 09, 2015, 06:41:17 PM
My 2007 Roush Stage 3 Mustang calls for 0W20 oil.
Ray
0w20, thin enough to be "qualifying" oil. -Rick
:baby:
Mountainman streetbob,
Brice, a ?
Did you get a report yet?
Looking forward to seeing it.
signed....BUBBIE
V-8 Porsche Cayenne S uses 0w-40 , whats the point?
I don't know how we got WAY off track, we are talking 10w60 moly for our HD's. And about the thickness I suppose... and what it does and doesn't do...
signed....BUBBIE
Quote from: BUBBIE on February 15, 2015, 10:17:55 AM
:baby:
Mountainman streetbob,
Brice, a ?
Did you get a report yet?
Looking forward to seeing it.
signed....BUBBIE
I checkedFriday and the sample hasn't even been delivered yet!!!!
I Love the fact the wife sent it usps instead of fedex "to save money" EEGADS if they lose that sample I am going to have a fit... :smilep: :smilep: :smilep:
Never send a woman to do a man's job!
Mine would do the same thing just to save a couple of bucks. No concept of just how important this is and how many of us are hanging on for the results. Go figure!
:missed:
I'm in a little village that Moved the postoffice from a Ghost Town "Pearce" a mile south and brought it up here to Sunsites, a place that IF you tied up a horse in front of any bldg. ,,,, it would look to Belong there... Wild west like Tombstone.... Guns Galore
My oil sample went thru the Mail (USPS) under 3$ and sent results back over the internet and a hard copy in the mail... (not over two weeks total)
Hopefully it is not Lost... :nix:
signed....BUBBIE
Quote from: BUBBIE on February 15, 2015, 05:53:35 PM
I don't know how we got WAY off track, we are talking 10w60 moly for our HD's. And about the thickness I suppose... and what it does and doesn't do...
signed....BUBBIE
A$$hats are messin with us...
Oil arrived at Blackstone this morning...................... I am like a kid waiting to open a sock off the mantle Christmas morning.
:agree:
Well here is a report on what the oil looks like after 6,089 miles
[attach=0]
Well It appears that 6000 miles is about as far as you want to push this oil.
It also appears my higher numbers for Aluminum, Chrome Iron and Silicon persist so I will be flushing out every crevice of the crankcase.
I am happy to see the oil lasted as well as it did.
[attach=1]
Trying to save it as full text not expandable but it is not working, suggestions?
Iron and copper levels not good at all. To me that's showing cyl wear and rod thrust washers as the main area of concern. What oil filter are you using and what air filter? 6k on the oil should not kill the additive package to the point wear will increase to that level.
Ron
Quote from: rbabos on February 18, 2015, 05:29:08 AM
Iron and copper levels not good at all. To me that's showing cyl wear and rod thrust washers as the main area of concern. What oil filter are you using and what air filter? 6k on the oil should not kill the additive package to the point wear will increase to that level.
Ron
Agree totally....only because I tested oil in a 3406 cat to over 6 times the recommended change interval & had no abnormal wear.
This motor was abnormally tight to begin with, did not loosen up until around 6k-7k miles.
The first sample numbers were high as well.
I need to do a very thorough flush including the sump.
A/C is a Boyeson and the Oil Filter is one of the the cleanable kinds, I believe it's in my signature, it's one of the filters we had the mile long discussion on this fall.
This is only the motors 2nd oil change after the factory oil. The first oil on the test was harley straight 50wt dyno. Ran well but was noisy on hot summer days.
Quote from: Mountainman streetbob on February 18, 2015, 06:01:03 AM
This motor was abnormally tight to begin with, did not loosen up until around 6k-7k miles.
The first sample numbers were high as well.
I need to do a very thorough flush including the sump.
A/C is a Boyeson and the Oil Filter is one of the the cleanable kinds, I believe it's in my signature, it's one of the filters we had the mile long discussion on this fall.
This is only the motors 2nd oil change after the factory oil. The first oil on the test was harley straight 50wt dyno. Ran well but was noisy on hot summer days.
How is a roller bearing engine tight from the factory? Doubt the factory churns out minimum tolerance engines in the cyls either. Too risky. What was the impression you got that it was tight?
Cleanable filter you say????? :potstir: No secret I have no use for them, so how about the same test with an HD filter for comparison. Here's your chance to shut me up once and for all. :hyst:
Ron
Quote from: rbabos on February 18, 2015, 06:16:58 AM
Quote from: Mountainman streetbob on February 18, 2015, 06:01:03 AM
This motor was abnormally tight to begin with, did not loosen up until around 6k-7k miles.
The first sample numbers were high as well.
I need to do a very thorough flush including the sump.
A/C is a Boyeson and the Oil Filter is one of the the cleanable kinds, I believe it's in my signature, it's one of the filters we had the mile long discussion on this fall.
This is only the motors 2nd oil change after the factory oil. The first oil on the test was harley straight 50wt dyno. Ran well but was noisy on hot summer days.
How is a roller bearing engine tight from the factory? Doubt the factory churns out minimum tolerance engines in the cyls either. Too risky. What was the impression you got that it was tight?
Cleanable filter you say????? :potstir: No secret I have no use for them, so how about the same test with an HD filter for comparison. Here's your chance to shut me up once and for all. :hyst:
Ron
I love it when you stir the pot Ron!
tight = abnormally high compression, excellent ring seat pressure.
If you don't understand that every motor made can be "loose" or "tight" pending on the min and max of acceptable tolerances, maybe we need to start another thread! LOL
BTW What would a oil filter have to do with high chromium, copper etc levels? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!
This motor is wearing in late, only has 2 oil changes on her and therefore shows higher levels of wearable metals... This is to be expected. I want my contamination to be suspended in the oil and drained with the oil. unfortunately because it is a twin cam Harley we always have an extra 1/2-1 quart of old oil left in the motor unless we do a sump drain and a flush of the main box. Next change will come sooner and be a thorough oil change this time. Might even dump the oil hot this time.
Current dyno numbers are abnormally high as well.
Shooting for 120/100 sae 6th gear when we get back to the shop with her. I have a dynojet 250 and a eddy current dyno I can check them against each other in the same morning...
Like everyone says, 255's are a school bus cam...
I generally use Rotella, change at 5000. Had it checked once a few years back, came out great with lots of life left.
I don't understand the fascination with oil in these forums.
I'm going to change out the First 10w60 oil soon at 5,000 miles (one more ride)
Then put in a full clean change of the 10w60. This will get me into the HOT days of spring and early summer.... Watching the Color and Pressure, I WILL go 6,000 then have the oil Checked again by Blackstone...
REMEMBER, I got a very good report off my 103" motor (having 30,000 mi. on it) as compared to all 103" motors.... Not Bragging here, Just what they said.
I don't believe it is the Lack of the Quality Lube (10w60 moly) Brice's motor has used... It is in the Wearing of his motor parts like he stated..
IF after This future change (next ride out n back) and then going 6,000 miles on new 10w60 moly oil and KnN filter, THEN if My Next report is Not up to the same Good Standards as it was at 4000 miles (on page 11), I Will gladly change back to the 20/50 Redline.
signed....BUBBIE
Draining the sump only drains the flywheel cavity. It doesn't drain the cam chest completely. The cam chest could still have about an inch of oil in it.
I have 2 cases apart and noticed that. Unless I missed something. I look again tonight now that I'm thinking about it.
Quote from: Mountainman streetbob on February 18, 2015, 06:53:32 AM
Quote from: rbabos on February 18, 2015, 06:16:58 AM
Quote from: Mountainman streetbob on February 18, 2015, 06:01:03 AM
This motor was abnormally tight to begin with, did not loosen up until around 6k-7k miles.
The first sample numbers were high as well.
I need to do a very thorough flush including the sump.
A/C is a Boyeson and the Oil Filter is one of the the cleanable kinds, I believe it's in my signature, it's one of the filters we had the mile long discussion on this fall.
This is only the motors 2nd oil change after the factory oil. The first oil on the test was harley straight 50wt dyno. Ran well but was noisy on hot summer days.
How is a roller bearing engine tight from the factory? Doubt the factory churns out minimum tolerance engines in the cyls either. Too risky. What was the impression you got that it was tight?
Cleanable filter you say????? :potstir: No secret I have no use for them, so how about the same test with an HD filter for comparison. Here's your chance to shut me up once and for all. :hyst:
Ron
I love it when you stir the pot Ron!
tight = abnormally high compression, excellent ring seat pressure.
If you don't understand that every motor made can be "loose" or "tight" pending on the min and max of acceptable tolerances, maybe we need to start another thread! LOL
BTW What would a oil filter have to do with high chromium, copper etc levels? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!
This motor is wearing in late, only has 2 oil changes on her and therefore shows higher levels of wearable metals... This is to be expected. I want my contamination to be suspended in the oil and drained with the oil. unfortunately because it is a twin cam Harley we always have an extra 1/2-1 quart of old oil left in the motor unless we do a sump drain and a flush of the main box. Next change will come sooner and be a thorough oil change this time. Might even dump the oil hot this time.
Current dyno numbers are abnormally high as well.
Shooting for 120/100 sae 6th gear when we get back to the shop with her. I have a dynojet 250 and a eddy current dyno I can check them against each other in the same morning...
Like everyone says, 255's are a school bus cam...
I understand minimum and limit built engines. Back in the day I helped build airboat engines. All garbage parts that were no longer airworthy and at max spec were used on them. :hyst: The high iron content within the oil most likely is responsible for the chromium and copper levels being high. Residual from breakin could be skewing you results. Repeat the test as you planned because it sounds like a lot of things like residual oil worked against you for a good test result.
Ron
Ron
Thanks for oil info Mountain Streetbob... and you saved some $ on shipping (LOL). All the review info you and Bubbie posted on this thread has helped me to decide to run this oil over the summer. Central MS gets just as hot and miserable as anyplace. BTW: How do you like Boyesen intake/filter set-up? Have one on my '09 Ultra and like it. Seat of Pants dyno felt great improvement over stock.
Like I said in another post Yesterday: As soon as I get 5,000 miles I'm dropping oil and filter.
That has come today @5,022 miles. (Blackstone said to go 6,000 and take a sample)
After my ride, I drained the oil/filter and dropped the engine sump plug. Not much came out of it.
Changed the primary out also. I use MTL by Redline there.
The 10w60 moly oil looked about the same color as the new oil I put in... Not too dark at all. Would have gone longer like Blackstone said BUT this gives me a Full change (#2) and now ready to do the Full 6,000 miles and then do another sample..
I do put on a lot of miles. Next 6,000 miles will not take long to get under my belt. SMILE
Changed the primary out also. I use MTL by Redline in there.
New rear tire on, front came in today... That said, I'm Ready to ride.
I will share the next report from Blackstone with you Also......... SO Stay Tuned.
signed....BUBBIE
This IS a Reply to my post #334
18486 Members cant be wrong, this is amazing!!!
:emoGroan:
Will the door ever blow shut on this long winded thread...oh wait test results are finally getting posted...only to find out it's not magic juice. -Rick
Quote from: 04 SE DEUCE on February 20, 2015, 09:56:37 AM
Will the door ever blow shut on this long winded thread...oh wait test results are finally getting posted...only to find out it's not magic juice. -Rick
At least we're finally getting some test results. Let's follow through instead of just calling Earl in to shut it down for no real reason. :banghead: It may not be such a great choice in the end but if that's the case then the testing should hopefully show why. Thanks to those that are taking the time to experiment and test this oil. :beer:
Test results are definitely way better than looks like honey, taste like rum and cures hemorrhoids on your bum. -Rick
Quote from: 04 SE DEUCE on February 20, 2015, 11:35:35 AM
Test results are definitely way better than looks like honey, taste like rum and cures hemorrhoids on your bum. -Rick
Somehow every discussion comes back to hemorrhoids and bums.
Ouch,sounds like a full season on this stuff is a nono. Unless that engine is on it's last legs anyway.
Quote from: clawdog60 on February 21, 2015, 01:43:02 PM
Ouch,sounds like a full season on this stuff is a nono. Unless that engine is on it's last legs anyway.
do you run your bike the full riding season without changing your oil? :scratch:
I bet I change my oil 6- 8 times during a normal season...maybe more if I'm lucky enough to go on some long trips.
Ray
Quote from: No Cents on February 21, 2015, 02:28:08 PM
Quote from: clawdog60 on February 21, 2015, 01:43:02 PM
Ouch,sounds like a full season on this stuff is a nono. Unless that engine is on it's last legs anyway.
do you run your bike the full riding season without changing your oil? :scratch:
I bet I change my oil 6- 8 times during a normal season...maybe more if I'm lucky enough to go on some long trips.
Ray
I have a friend that puts on 800 to 1200 miles a year. I change his oil every Spring.
So yeah, one whole season on an oil change. :crook:
Quote from: No Cents on February 21, 2015, 02:28:08 PM
Quote from: clawdog60 on February 21, 2015, 01:43:02 PM
Ouch,sounds like a full season on this stuff is a nono. Unless that engine is on it's last legs anyway.
do you run your bike the full riding season without changing your oil? :scratch:
I bet I change my oil 6- 8 times during a normal season...maybe more if I'm lucky enough to go on some long trips.
Ray
In the past no, but I considered trying a full season on the moly10/60 with filter maintenance and oil tests. Just for information.
Quote from: ndmp40 on February 18, 2015, 07:32:41 AM
I generally use Rotella, change at 5000. Had it checked once a few years back, came out great with lots of life left.
I don't understand the fascination with oil in these forums.
It's so we can save a buck to spend on "cam of the month". :potstir:
2 five liter jugs of Moly 10w60 is about $90 delivered. I can get 3 oil changes out of that easy. Thats $30 each for just the oil, which I think is a bargain for this grade of synthetic. At 5000 miles per change, and about 10K miles a year, I believe I'm being a good shopper and good to my CVO motor.
I'm not cheap, but Redline 20W60 was like $17 a qt. My bike really needs the 60 wt part, and it never complains on cold startup about the 10W.
:pop:
Quote from: MichaelDee on February 19, 2015, 09:31:06 AM
Thanks for oil info Mountain Streetbob... and you saved some $ on shipping (LOL). All the review info you and Bubbie posted on this thread has helped me to decide to run this oil over the summer. Central MS gets just as hot and miserable as anyplace. BTW: How do you like Boyesen intake/filter set-up? Have one on my '09 Ultra and like it. Seat of Pants dyno felt great improvement over stock.
I love the boyeson intake enough to put it on multiple bikes. For any motor up to 113 with a 50-55 intake I can seem to make them run real nice and the partial throttle response is outstanding!
Quote from: rbabos on February 18, 2015, 09:49:20 AM
Quote from: Mountainman streetbob on February 18, 2015, 06:53:32 AM
Quote from: rbabos on February 18, 2015, 06:16:58 AM
Quote from: Mountainman streetbob on February 18, 2015, 06:01:03 AM
This motor was abnormally tight to begin with, did not loosen up until around 6k-7k miles.
The first sample numbers were high as well.
I need to do a very thorough flush including the sump.
A/C is a Boyeson and the Oil Filter is one of the the cleanable kinds, I believe it's in my signature, it's one of the filters we had the mile long discussion on this fall.
This is only the motors 2nd oil change after the factory oil. The first oil on the test was harley straight 50wt dyno. Ran well but was noisy on hot summer days.
How is a roller bearing engine tight from the factory? Doubt the factory churns out minimum tolerance engines in the cyls either. Too risky. What was the impression you got that it was tight?
Cleanable filter you say????? :potstir: No secret I have no use for them, so how about the same test with an HD filter for comparison. Here's your chance to shut me up once and for all. :hyst:
Ron
I love it when you stir the pot Ron!
tight = abnormally high compression, excellent ring seat pressure.
If you don't understand that every motor made can be "loose" or "tight" pending on the min and max of acceptable tolerances, maybe we need to start another thread! LOL
BTW What would a oil filter have to do with high chromium, copper etc levels? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!
This motor is wearing in late, only has 2 oil changes on her and therefore shows higher levels of wearable metals... This is to be expected. I want my contamination to be suspended in the oil and drained with the oil. unfortunately because it is a twin cam Harley we always have an extra 1/2-1 quart of old oil left in the motor unless we do a sump drain and a flush of the main box. Next change will come sooner and be a thorough oil change this time. Might even dump the oil hot this time.
Current dyno numbers are abnormally high as well.
Shooting for 120/100 sae 6th gear when we get back to the shop with her. I have a dynojet 250 and a eddy current dyno I can check them against each other in the same morning...
Like everyone says, 255's are a school bus cam...
I understand minimum and limit built engines. Back in the day I helped build airboat engines. All garbage parts that were no longer airworthy and at max spec were used on them. :hyst: The high iron content within the oil most likely is responsible for the chromium and copper levels being high. Residual from breakin could be skewing you results. Repeat the test as you planned because it sounds like a lot of things like residual oil worked against you for a good test result.
Ron
Ron
Thanks Ron! I sure hope I am right. I will know soon enough if this snow/sleet and 30* temps ever leave.
Quote from: 04 SE DEUCE on February 20, 2015, 09:56:37 AM
Will the door ever blow shut on this long winded thread...oh wait test results are finally getting posted...only to find out it's not magic juice. -Rick
Rick, No one ever said this oil is magic juice, just a 100% synthetic oil you can get at NAPA for half the cost of amsoil/redline/etc that you can run year round for up to 6000 miles SAFELY and not hurt your bike.
Not Magic juice.
Just Practical!
Quote from: BUBBIE on February 19, 2015, 07:22:13 PM
Like I said in another post Yesterday: As soon as I get 5,000 miles I'm dropping oil and filter.
That has come today @5,022 miles. (Blackstone said to go 6,000 and take a sample)
After my ride, I drained the oil/filter and dropped the engine sump plug. Not much came out of it.
Changed the primary out also. I use MTL by Redline there.
The 10w60 moly oil looked about the same color as the new oil I put in... Not too dark at all. Would have gone longer like Blackstone said BUT this gives me a Full change (#2) and now ready to do the Full 6,000 miles and then do another sample..
I do put on a lot of miles. Next 6,000 miles will not take long to get under my belt. SMILE
Changed the primary out also. I use MTL by Redline in there.
New rear tire on, front came in today... That said, I'm Ready to ride.
I will share the next report from Blackstone with you Also......... SO Stay Tuned.
signed....BUBBIE
This IS a Reply to my post #334
Can't wait to see another report Bubbie!
I'm paying a little over $2 a qt. more for RedLine, a proven application specific product. -Rick
there is not a motorcycle shop or auto parts store around where I live that sells Red Line Oils. I think O'Reilly said they can order it. :nix:
If this Liqui Moly 10w60 proves itself to work as well as the Red Line or Amsoil synthetics in these T/C engines for a lower price and it can be bought at the local NAPA store...I say it's something that has to be considered.
I do know my engine ran cooler and quieter with it in it last summer.
I will be using it again this spring when my bike comes out of it's winter storage.
Ray
One distributor for Red Line is Tucky Rocky, that limits you to all dealers, Indys. and accessary shops in the country that do/can order from Tucker. -Rick
oil should come down in price like gas...so it will all be cheaper... :missed:
Quote from: No Cents on February 23, 2015, 04:32:22 PM
there is not a motorcycle shop or auto parts store around where I live that sells Red Line Oils. I think O'Reilly said they can order it. :nix:
If this Liqui Moly 10w60 proves itself to work as well as the Red Line or Amsoil synthetics in these T/C engines for a lower price and it can be bought at the local NAPA store...I say it's something that has to be considered.
I do know my engine ran cooler and quieter with it in it last summer.
I will be using it again this spring when my bike comes out of it's winter storage.
Ray
I paid like $18/qt for special order Red Line 20w60 at O'reilly's .
I got my 10W60 LiquiMolly from an eBay seller with free shipping, but I paid sales tax. Arrived next day (I'm south of Dallas, he is North of Dallas.)
5 Liter Jug is $41.99 plus tax if you are in Texas, free shipping.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Liqui-Moly-2024-Race-Tech-GT-1-10W-60-Synthetic-Motor-Oil-5-liters-BMW-M3-M5-M6-/121398324571?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c43e76d5b&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Liqui-Moly-2024-Race-Tech-GT-1-10W-60-Synthetic-Motor-Oil-5-liters-BMW-M3-M5-M6-/121398324571?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c43e76d5b&vxp=mtr)
Quote from: Oclaf on February 23, 2015, 05:26:39 PM
oil should come down in price like gas...so it will all be cheaper... :missed:
Don't hold your breath. Oil companies :turd:
Quote from: r0de_runr on February 23, 2015, 06:18:04 PM
Quote from: No Cents on February 23, 2015, 04:32:22 PM
there is not a motorcycle shop or auto parts store around where I live that sells Red Line Oils. I think O'Reilly said they can order it. :nix:
Ray
I paid like $18/qt for special order Red Line 20w60 at O'reilly's .
Here: http://www.jegs.com/i/Red-Line-Oil/816/12505/10002/-1?parentProductId=752187 (http://www.jegs.com/i/Red-Line-Oil/816/12505/10002/-1?parentProductId=752187)
...and if you need 20-60HD
http://www.amazon.com/Red-Line-20W-60-Synthetic-Oil/dp/B000LNG6LI (http://www.amazon.com/Red-Line-20W-60-Synthetic-Oil/dp/B000LNG6LI)
O.K. All three holes have new fresh oil. LiquiMoly and a new filter for the 110 engine, synth 3 in the others. Now all I need to do is wait for the 4-5 feet of snow to melt. COME ON SPRING!!!!
Quote from: jachd17 on March 02, 2015, 05:20:54 PM
O.K. All three holes have new fresh oil. LiquiMoly and a new filter for the 110 engine, synth 3 in the others. Now all I need to do is wait for the 4-5 feet of snow to melt. COME ON SPRING!!!!
Are you saying you are using Syn3 in the gear box. :banghead: Not acceptable for transmissions due to shearing from the gears , dropping in viscosity and losing lube quality. Primary and engine it's fine.
Ron
REDLINE SHOCKPROOF! :baby:
:idea:
I for "ONE" would Dump SIN3 in the Tranny and go with some Redline ShockProof Heavy GEAR OIL..... OR at LEAST A Gear Oil... :oil: :slap:
signed....BUBBIE
:hyst: Good Mind THINKING Alike
ADDED:
ALSO, ShockProof will go FULLY 20,000 miles and Then Some...
Quote from: BUBBIE on March 02, 2015, 05:40:07 PM
:idea:
I for "ONE" would Dump SIN3 in the Tranny and go with some Redline ShockProof Heavy GEAR OIL..... OR at LEAST A Gear Oil... :oil: :slap:
signed....BUBBIE
:hyst: Good Mind THINKING Alike
ADDED:
ALSO, ShockProof will go FULLY 20,000 miles and Then Some...
Any decent gear oil will go 20000. My mind has never been made up on that pepto stuff. Seems too damn thick to lube freely in some of the tight spots in the gear box. Might be fine but it always seemed wrong to me. :nix: Carry on. :wink:
Ron
All I mean by the 20,000 miles IS,,,,,, that is what HD suggest now to change the tranny lube out.
I know most any Good Gear Oil will go in and do fine. I have 96,000 on my 09 King and No problems to the tranny bearings. Used Redline SP Gear oil in my Dynas, My 00 did 117,000 miles and 60, of it on a conversion 6 speed Rev-Tech gear set... Using Red SP...
That Pink/Mayo stays on things when it does COAT anything it stays put.
Looking at many covers off tranny's that use the ShockProof and it is there, easy and No mistake what it is... FSG had a picture of the green/blue Redline ShockProof light weight with his Tranny door off to show that Spring return he uses... It was Sticking to every piece/place where most gear lubes would have Dripped Dry... :hyst:
The main thing I like to see is: One Good, Proper Lube In EACH three Holes. Not One lube for all three holes... :banghead:
signed....BUBBIE
The uncolored gear lubes stick to everything too, you just don't see it because it's not colored. :unsure:
Quote from: BUBBIE on March 02, 2015, 07:59:45 PM
All I mean by the 20,000 miles IS,,,,,, that is what HD suggest now to change the tranny lube out.
I know most any Good Gear Oil will go in and do fine. I have 96,000 on my 09 King and No problems to the tranny bearings. Used Redline SP Gear oil in my Dynas, My 00 did 117,000 miles and 60, of it on a conversion 6 speed Rev-Tech gear set... Using Red SP...
That Pink/Mayo stays on things when it does COAT anything it stays put.
Looking at many covers off tranny's that use the ShockProof and it is there, easy and No mistake what it is... FSG had a picture of the green/blue Redline ShockProof light weight with his Tranny door off to show that Spring return he uses... It was Sticking to every piece/place where most gear lubes would have Dripped Dry... :hyst:
The main thing I like to see is: One Good, Proper Lube In EACH three Holes. Not One lube for all three holes... :banghead:
signed....BUBBIE
Remember you live in the land of heat so you don't see the ugly side of it. Can you imagine how flow resistant that stuff is in 30-40 degree weather. While you have a quiet gear set all the balls and rollers in the gear box suffer from this lack of flow. Quite often thick oils can allow parts to break through the oil boundary layer more so then a thinner fluid. Like you mentioned, most pics of trans I've seen apart seem to have that stuff in there also. Coincidence?
Ron
Quote from: truck on March 02, 2015, 08:13:36 PM
The uncolored gear lubes stick to everything too, you just don't see it because it's not colored. :unsure:
:up: :beer:
Just a Defensive Note.... I also Live up in COOL Washing State... Not too far from COLDER Canada...
That is why they make a Heavy (worked ok in Wa.) @SAE 75W250
Light Weight @SAE 75W140
Superlight @SAE 75X90
So the choice is there... Most of the Dyna 2000 TC miles on the Rev-Tech 6 speed was in COOL Wa. using the Heavy...
signed....BUBBIE
ADDED:
THANKS for the Below Post Rick..... :up:
Semi-jell is part of the description an engineer at Red line used to describe the shockproof lube to me, as such they are not tested/rated in the same way as other gear lubes. They do not have resistance that matches the clinginess of the lube, in other words less resistance than you would think, You guys have already read Red Line's statement about resistance if you looked at their site.
The use of shockproof lube wouldn't be as widespread in professional racing and recommended by manufacturers unless it was a preferred lube. Dragstrip, circle track, road racing and desert in differentials, transmissions/transaxles.
Last place I noticed shockproof lube being used was an old Hewland box in a Formula B Brabham on page 99 of March/April Road & Track, shows a picture during a gearing change and lightweight shockproof is the obvious lube, same as used in current racing transmissions.
There is more to the clinginess than a perception of such based on the fact that it is colored, cleaning it off a funnel or leaving it on one is enough to experience the difference. :doh: -Rick
My 2004 Ford Explorer with 218,000 miles on it had a rear Diff whine that was driving me nuts.. Went to the Pepto pink stuff and many miles later it VERY noticeably quieter. I use in my Deluxe 124" Tans with in excess of 45K miles and still going strong. Stuff did make me nervous with the constancy of it but I got over it.
Quote from: rbabos on March 03, 2015, 05:21:28 AM
...Can you imagine how flow resistant that stuff is in 30-40 degree weather. While you have a quiet gear set all the balls and rollers in the gear box suffer from this lack of flow...
Ron
Don't see any good reason to use Shockproof Heavy in 30-40deg weather. Shockproof light would do the trick with superb protection when stored.
Also remember this stuf clings like flies on "Potty mouth" so no worries about bearings starving for lube.
Bob
Quote from: rbabos on March 02, 2015, 05:31:59 PM
Quote from: jachd17 on March 02, 2015, 05:20:54 PM
O.K. All three holes have new fresh oil. LiquiMoly and a new filter for the 110 engine, synth 3 in the others. Now all I need to do is wait for the 4-5 feet of snow to melt. COME ON SPRING!!!!
Are you saying you are using Syn3 in the gear box. :banghead: Not acceptable for transmissions due to shearing from the gears , dropping in viscosity and losing lube quality. Primary and engine it's fine.
Ron
From owners manual: "When filling transmission use Screamin' Eagle SYN3 Synthetic Motorcycle Lubricant" :nix:
Quote from: jachd17 on March 03, 2015, 04:04:57 PM
Quote from: rbabos on March 02, 2015, 05:31:59 PM
Quote from: jachd17 on March 02, 2015, 05:20:54 PM
O.K. All three holes have new fresh oil. LiquiMoly and a new filter for the 110 engine, synth 3 in the others. Now all I need to do is wait for the 4-5 feet of snow to melt. COME ON SPRING!!!!
Are you saying you are using Syn3 in the gear box. :banghead: Not acceptable for transmissions due to shearing from the gears , dropping in viscosity and losing lube quality. Primary and engine it's fine.
Ron
From owners manual: "When filling transmission use Screamin' Eagle SYN3 Synthetic Motorcycle Lubricant" :nix:
There was a time it was recommended. Dig a little deeper into it and find out why they don't now. You can't go wrong with a true gear oil for the task.
Ron
I've ran the Shockproof heavy in a 4 speed, 5 inna 4 speed case, and now in my Twinky OD 6.
Hell, I've got in the gearbox on my 3 pt post hole auger. (It's all I had on the shelf that day.)
At the risk of creating another oil war........What is recommended for trans lube in a 2008 CVO with the 6 speed cruisedrive transmission.
Spectro Golden 6 speed or Royal Purple 75w140 are great gear lubes for a 6 speed tranny.
Ray
Quote from: jachd17 on March 03, 2015, 05:46:16 PM
At the risk of creating another oil war........What is recommended for trans lube in a 2008 CVO with the 6 speed cruisedrive transmission.
Redline HD Shockproof.
~John
Just an Update:
I turned 1000 miles today on the new oil (10w60 moly) & filter change.... Plan IS to get 6,000 miles, then send in the oil sample again... This time around should show Just how the oil handles the Longer change interval.
I took a run to Florence Az. on I-10 and over on the slow stop n go 77 hwy. Catalina area, as road work going on HEAVLY on 6 miles of Oracle...
It was 81* showing 86* on some of the outside Thermometers...
The oil pressure seemed fine. 18 at a stops and 45 cruise... (shown on my Inaccurate HD oil pressure gauge) I took the Stop n Go way back to the freeway, Long Lights and no heating problems at all... Lifters were quiet, heating up as it did today, I was happy with the results.
I do have a Thermo 6 row Jagg cooler... Next time out, I'll shoot the temperatures with an Infra-gauge... Forgot to take it with me today.
OH WELL...... Sunny and HOT for tomorrow as well...
Weather is getting Better here in Az. SMILE
Sorry for the SNOW and Freezing most of you have in the North / East.
signed....BUBBIE
Post # 250 on TOP Page 11 is the Blackstone report....
Thanks for the update. If the 6k test looks good, are you going to extend the run time on it?
IF Blackstone suggest another 2,000 on top of the 6,000 , I'd be surprised... Looking at the color of the 10w60 Moly oil I dumped out at 5,000 (non scientific I KNOW) STILL Looked very Light in Tan color (see thru)... UN-LIKE any other oil I have used... I'd call that a good sign. AND going on the Blackstone Report......
I would probably go their route. JUST TO SEE....
Hell, I'm getting OLD and so is the 09 bike... NEVER in My Younger days would I even consider a change From Redline... I see No reason to Not try now...
I Never have kept oil in my motors beyond the 4,000 mile range Unless on a trip,,, Sturgis was one of them going 6,000 miles by time I got home to change out the Redline 20/50 and the Primary MTL... NOBODY Close to buy from... 20/50 Redline Oil looked to Lube ok but 6,000 is over my limit being Synthetic... Dino at 3,000 most... JUST my standards...
WE shall see... :pop:
signed....BUBBIE
Quote from: BUBBIE on March 08, 2015, 10:22:26 AM
IF Blackstone suggest another 2,000 on top of the 6,000 , I'd be surprised... Looking at the color of the 10w60 Moly oil I dumped out at 5,000 (non scientific I KNOW) STILL Looked very Light in Tan color (see thru)... UN-LIKE any other oil I have used... I'd call that a good sign. AND going on the Blackstone Report......
I would probably go their route. JUST TO SEE....
Hell, I'm getting OLD and so is the 09 bike... NEVER in My Younger days would I even consider a change From Redline... I see No reason to Not try now...
I Never have kept oil in my motors beyond the 4,000 mile range Unless on a trip,,, Sturgis was one of them going 6,000 miles by time I got home to change out the Redline 20/50 and the Primary MTL... NOBODY Close to buy from... 20/50 Redline Oil looked to Lube ok but 6,000 is over my limit being Synthetic... Dino at 3,000 most... JUST my standards...
WE shall see... :pop:
signed....BUBBIE
Well Bubbie I am jealous of your weather. I have put on 850 miles in the last 3 months... This is killing me, we are supposed to be warm in the south.
Hopefully we get to see your report soon.
850 miles in the past three months :doh:
Damn my bike hasn't even rolled out of the barn in the past three months. :angry:
The snow and ice "might" be melted out of the driveway back to the barn by the end of tomorrow...finally.
50* temps forecasted for around here this week. [attach=0]
Spring time is getting closer!
Ray
Wintering in Az I've got my bike on the rack doing it's first oil change of the year. 5k sense December. And yes I'm putting in the LiquiMoly 10-60 for the first time. Was using Amsoil but like the price of the LM better. Putting PeptoBismo in the other two holes so no savings there but they won't get changed for a year. Awesome sunny day again today so need to head out and finish the change and put my shocks back on.
Don't use ShockProof in the Primary... Clutch will Slip n Bitch... Use in Tranny Only... :wink:
MTL or V-twin primary oil by Redline (both the same Lube, just different labels) IS for the Primary...
signed....BUBBIE
Quote from: No Cents on March 08, 2015, 04:58:30 PM
850 miles in the past three months :doh:
Damn my bike hasn't even rolled out of the barn in the past three months. :angry:
The snow and ice "might" be melted out of the driveway back to the barn by the end of tomorrow...finally.
50* temps forecasted for around here this week. [attach=0]
Spring time is getting closer!
Ray
Mine either. Seeing some light in the tunnel now.
I went out to the garage to see if my 01 Dyna was still there. It hasn't been run or looked at since last October!! Coldest winter here on record for 105 yrs, -15C by Nov, then up to 0C at Xmas, then quickly down to -30C until a week ago. Finally had +2C yesterday!!
The bike is still there!!, battery charged, ready to go when the 3-4 feet of snow goes away. A friend showed up here on his Honda Rebel 250 yesterday afternoon, he must have pure antifreeze in his veins.
Not this lad, way too old for that sh...t> Buffalo
-7F a week ago 50F today. Riding tomorrow 60F. Finally!
85 degrees here now, getting ready to head out on the bike.
Doing my part to help the "MOLY- FOLLY" thread make 400 posts and 20,000 views, somehow I don't think warm weather is going to stop this one. -Rick
Quote from: 04 SE DEUCE on March 10, 2015, 03:49:17 PM
85 degrees here now, getting ready to head out on the bike.
Doing my part to help the "MOLY- FOLLY" thread make 400 posts and 20,000 views, somehow I don't think warm weather is going to stop this one. -Rick
:up: :teeth:
I'll do my part
:idea:
IF I keep riding when it is Warm/Hot here, I'll have the report soon....
Headed to NM for a 3 day ride out. Gotta find some COOLER Weather :potstir:
Two up and Loaded down, back road two lanes no freeway Unless the Only route here and there for a mile or two... I'll Still get 45 miles per gallon... :chop:
It is Not the oil you know... :hyst:
signed....BUBBIE
I'am thinkin LM in motor, gear oil in Trani and MOCOs own formula+ in Primary :fish:
Quote from: BUBBIE on March 11, 2015, 09:01:34 AM
:idea:
IF I keep riding when it is Warm/Hot here, I'll have the report soon....
Headed to NM for a 3 day ride out. Gotta find some COOLER Weather :potstir:
Two up and Loaded down, back road two lanes no freeway Unless the Only route here and there for a mile or two... I'll Still get 45 miles per gallon... :chop:
It is Not the oil you know... :hyst:
signed....BUBBIE
Thanks,rub it in. Enjoy NM ride.
All I've run in my 5speed is hd primary lube. Leaves a nasty black thick film in the cover. Thinking about trying the spectro.
2000 miles.... :oil:... :sheep:
signed....BUBBIE
Na Bubbie, didn't put shockproof in primary, used Redline primary lube. I'll be givin her the warm weather test this week to. Gathering of friends down in Yuma where the weather is in the 90*s. Bikes and utv's so should be fried by the time I get back hm to Cornville. The way those boys ride myself and the rigs will be tested!
Pheeew !
You had me worried about the Primary... You'll do Just great with that Redline in there. :oil:
Now your Body ? :hyst:
Have Fun.... You know? You Can take Some of that HEAT home with you as Yuma doesn't need ALL of it...
signed....BUBBIE
snip: "Doing my part to help the "MOLY- FOLLY" thread make 400 posts..."
done :up:
401
At 34 degrees Friday morning my 103 with the 10-60 cranked a little hard. Think it's the oil? :pop:
NO, NOT the OIL... :oil:
BUT it IS the 34* ,,,, that is the problem.
#402 and My skies are Blue and IT will be Warm AGAIN today... :chop:
signed....BUBBIE
finally had a warm day! 250 miles felt real good regardless of the 1.5 hours it took to go the first 10 miles :emoGroan:
:scratch:
eBay, 10 liters, $78, free shipping.
Late to the party but just ordered on Amazon Prime. First oil change for the 15 Road Glide.
Soon as I hit 135,000 im putting some of this stuff in. Getting into the 90's here.
I also just dropped the oil out of the ole lady's street glide,And changed it over to this stuff,we are going to give it a try also........... :wink:
If you look a little harder Arko Auto Parts has 10 liters for $75 free shipping. Ebay also.
Quote from: IRONMIKE113 on March 26, 2015, 05:52:00 PM
I also just dropped the oil out of the ole lady's street glide,And changed it over to this stuff,we are going to give it a try also........... :wink:
testing it out in the better halves bike first...aye Mike? :hyst:
I just put a fresh batch of the L/M in last weekend.
Ray
I'm back off a few days ride. 3600 miles on the oil todate... Not used a drop and looks slightly brown but see thru easily... (very light for 3600 miles on it)
Today I shot my I.R.heat gauge at the oil thru the hole into the tank. I took many shots into the tank... The highest I could get was 209* (consistent). (not claiming anything Accurate here) :slap:
The other places I Shot with the IRgauge:
Primary derby cover ceenter 100* (MTL) .... KnN oil filter end 140*... oil cooler different points 120 to 138*...
Started out this morning from Kingman down the WARM side of Az. along the Colorado River... Never felt like overheating when Idle long time at stoplights today and it was Hot out...
Temperatures were taken after a run from Gila Bend to Dairy Queen at Picacho peak... YES I Ate some COLD white stuff... IT WAS HOT today. Mostly running 80 to 85 mph with spurts to 90 mph when passing big trucks...
Testing the temps was done Immediately after I pulled to the pumps. Short distance off Freeway, so I doubt anything got cooled much...
I am Pleased with the oil and when I get the 6,000, Blackstone will get another sample...
BIKES all over as Az, Bike Week is in progress...
signed....BUBBIE
ADDED:
You can see the Blackstone Oil Report on Top page 11 on this thread...
Quote from: No Cents on March 26, 2015, 07:42:12 PM
Quote from: IRONMIKE113 on March 26, 2015, 05:52:00 PM
I also just dropped the oil out of the ole lady's street glide,And changed it over to this stuff,we are going to give it a try also........... :wink:
testing it out in the better halves bike first...aye Mike? :hyst:
I just put a fresh batch of the L/M in last weekend.
Ray
Yup we are getting Ramped up to start riding,but wouldn't you know,it went and snowed a Chit load again,and they were out with the salt shakers,and I have few goodies left to install anyway,So I figured no bad word on the L/M,so we would give it a try,And momma's bike is a good test bike for trying it out,She beats on that scooter........... :hyst:
Quote from: BUBBIE on March 26, 2015, 07:57:33 PM
I'm back off a few days ride. 3600 miles on the oil todate... Not used a drop and looks slightly brown but see thru easily... (very light for 3600 miles on it)
Today I shot my I.R.heat gauge at the oil thru the hole into the tank. I took many shots into the tank... The highest I could get was 209* (consistent). (not claiming anything Accurate here) :slap:
The other places I Shot with the IRgauge:
Primary derby cover ceenter 100* (MTL) .... KnN oil filter end 140*... oil cooler different points 120 to 138*...
Started out this morning from Kingman down the WARM side of Az. along the Colorado River... Never felt like overheating when Idle long time at stoplights today and it was Hot out...
Temperatures were taken after a run from Gila Bend to Dairy Queen at Picacho peak... YES I Ate some COLD white stuff... IT WAS HOT today. Mostly running 80 to 85 mph with spurts to 90 mph when passing big trucks...
Testing the temps was done Immediately after I pulled to the pumps. Short distance off Freeway, so I doubt anything got cooled much...
I am Pleased with the oil and when I get the 6,000, Blackstone will get another sample...
BIKES all over as Az, Bike Week is in progress...
signed....BUBBIE
good info Bubbie :oil:
Quote from: BUBBIE on March 26, 2015, 07:57:33 PM
I'm back off a few days ride. 3600 miles on the oil todate... Not used a drop and looks slightly brown but see thru easily... (very light for 3600 miles on it)
Today I shot my I.R.heat gauge at the oil thru the hole into the tank. I took many shots into the tank... The highest I could get was 209* (consistent). (not claiming anything Accurate here) :slap:
The other places I Shot with the IRgauge:
Primary derby cover ceenter 100* (MTL) .... KnN oil filter end 140*... oil cooler different points 120 to 138*...
Started out this morning from Kingman down the WARM side of Az. along the Colorado River... Never felt like overheating when Idle long time at stoplights today and it was Hot out...
Temperatures were taken after a run from Gila Bend to Dairy Queen at Picacho peak... YES I Ate some COLD white stuff... IT WAS HOT today. Mostly running 80 to 85 mph with spurts to 90 mph when passing big trucks...
Testing the temps was done Immediately after I pulled to the pumps. Short distance off Freeway, so I doubt anything got cooled much...
I am Pleased with the oil and when I get the 6,000, Blackstone will get another sample...
BIKES all over as Az, Bike Week is in progress...
signed....BUBBIE
ADDED:
You can see the Blackstone Oil Report on Top page 11 on this thread...
Stuffs like a broken drum..
Kingman, that was a long way from home.
Hey send some of that heat this way.
Out on another ride today. 2 up 85* out and checked my oil IN Tank temps with my IR gauge. Shooting into the oil fill hole at a fuel stop.... (oil about 4 inches away)
Most I could get was 194* today... Never ran that cool with Redline... 210* usual (all out of town roads, No stop lights)
Reason I say this iS to show how cool it is running in my 09 King, 103 with 255 cams..
Nick, Might you consider buying some Liqui-Moly?
signed....BUBBIE
so BUBBIE...are you saying that L/Moly is a keeper?
I know I'm going to continue using it. I have seen the same results as your seeing with my oil temp's...being lower.
Ray
I Could NOT believe How Much Cooler my bike is running with the 10w60 moly. Redline 20/50 is a great oil but the 10w60 is Another KEEPER. :oil:
Thinking Nick Might try some out of his shop.
Blackstone report on top of Page 11 in the moly thread SHOWS their report IF some of you have Not seen it...
I would not be afraid of using it in a Business... Customers would Thank You.
Just waiting for a full 6,000 miles and sending in another sample... Hoping it shows GOOD by Blackstone. (again)
Nick, truly would like you to try the 10w60 moly oil IN your bike, just to see. AND Get YOUR opinion...
signed....BUBBIE
:agree: with you BUBBIE.
Nick you should try the L/Moly in your personal bike and make your decision from there on using it in customers bikes. I used Amsoil for years and I seen a huge improvement with cooler oil temp's with this 10W60 L/M and my valve train is quieter.
I promised myself I would recommend parts to anyone anymore...but I have seen the difference this oil makes and with the Blackstone report back to BUBBIE it just verifying what I thought.
The local Napa stores carry it...or if it's not on the shelf...they can order it from their warehouses.
Ray
Bubbie and Ray I will be trying it in my bike I hope I can find it in stock somewhere on my way home tomorrow and if I like it and the tests show what I am hearing from you guys I will be switching my shop oil to it
Quote from: Just Nick on March 29, 2015, 06:43:12 PM
Bubbie and Ray I will be trying it in my bike I hope I can find it in stock somewhere on my way home tomorrow and if I like it and the tests show what I am hearing from you guys I will be switching my shop oil to it
Check NAPA auto website. I found it locally at mine.
I'm right at 4000 miles today and the color is very Light. The test will come when I send a sample at 6,000 miles.
I just sent off a note to Ray, about how I could not believe the NON Heat as before even when using another Good Oil. 20/50 Redline...
I did have a lot of stop n go traffic on monday 23 headed 17 N through Phoenix rush hour. A Real Mess as things tightened down and everybody trying to get out of it. Normally I would have thought my bike would have been HOT... But NO...
ANXIOUS for you to try...
I'm like Ray, Not trying to push anybody BUT when you find something that seems to Work Better, IT is hard Not to share and to try to get it across to others...
I don't say it's a GOOD Oil Lightly. :SM:
signed....BUBBIE
I buy off of Amazon, I am a Prime member. (free shipping) gets to my door here in SE Az. in two days. I ordered 2 @ 5 liters as I'm going to use it in my 4 ltr straight 6 cyl. Jeep... I'm FUSSY there also, just like my bikes.
YES IT IS....
Motor Oil - Liqui Moly - RaceTech 100% Synthetic - 10W60 - 1l
Part Number: LM2068
Product Line: Altrom Chemicals, Lubes - Regular States
It is what we use... I LOOKED at Your Link you provided and YES it is it...
http://m.napaonline.com/store/MyCart.aspx (http://m.napaonline.com/store/MyCart.aspx)
Is this the right stuff ? Ha I ask my wife that same question all the time, she says no
This stuff
http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx/Motor-Oil-Liqui-Moly-RaceTech-100-Synthetic-10W60-1l/_/R-AORLM2068_0290948393 (http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx/Motor-Oil-Liqui-Moly-RaceTech-100-Synthetic-10W60-1l/_/R-AORLM2068_0290948393)
Great I'm going to pick some up tomorrow and report back asap
Thank you Bubbie and Ray
this is it.
[attach=0]
Ray
added later:
sorry Brian I didn't see you posted a picture of it.
Quote from: Just Nick on March 29, 2015, 06:43:12 PM
Bubbie and Ray I will be trying it in my bike I hope I can find it in stock somewhere on my way home tomorrow and if I like it and the tests show what I am hearing from you guys I will be switching my shop oil to it
Hey Nick,
I have two cases of gallon jugs of the stuff (I love it).
PM me your shipping address & I will send you a gallon for free so you can try it out in your bike before you commit to a larger purchase.
~John
Quote from: BUBBIE on March 29, 2015, 06:59:57 PM
I'm right at 4000 miles today and the color is very Light. The test will come when I send a sample at 6,000 miles.
I just sent off a note to Ray, about how I could not believe the NON Heat as before even when using another Good Oil. 20/50 Redline...
I did have a lot of stop n go traffic on monday 23 headed 17 N through Phoenix rush hour. A Real Mess as things tightened down and everybody trying to get out of it. Normally I would have thought my bike would have been HOT... But NO...
ANXIOUS for you to try...
I'm like Ray, Not trying to push anybody BUT when you find something that seems to Work Better, IT is hard Not to share and to try to get it across to others...
I don't say it's a GOOD Oil Lightly. :SM:
signed....BUBBIE
I buy off of Amazon, I am a Prime member. (free shipping) gets to my door here in SE Az. in two days. I ordered 2 @ 5 liters as I'm going to use it in my 4 ltr straight 6 cyl. Jeep... I'm FUSSY there also, just like my bikes.
YES IT IS....
Motor Oil - Liqui Moly - RaceTech 100% Synthetic - 10W60 - 1l
Part Number: LM2068
Product Line: Altrom Chemicals, Lubes - Regular States
It is what we use... I LOOKED at Your Link you provided and YES it is it...
I have been using the Liqui Moly formulated for bikes rather than the automotive version.
http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/produktdb.nsf/id/en_1525.html?OpenDocument&land=DE (http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/produktdb.nsf/id/en_1525.html?OpenDocument&land=DE)
I emailed Liqui Moly and they recommended the Bike oil over the Auto version
Will this oil be ok to use in ne cold starts undee 40 deg in fall
Quote from: tc1550 on March 30, 2015, 10:28:32 AM
Will this oil be ok to use in ne cold starts undee 40 deg in fall
Have multiple cold starts in Al betweem 21*-29* started fine no rattles, no extended time for lifters.
This is year round oil in Germany where their winters up north are COOOOOOOLLLLLLDDDDDDDDD :teeth:
Just picked up 6 liters of liqui moly going to put in my bike and go for a ride I will report back later
Quote from: jmorton10 on March 30, 2015, 03:29:13 AM
Quote from: Just Nick on March 29, 2015, 06:43:12 PM
Bubbie and Ray I will be trying it in my bike I hope I can find it in stock somewhere on my way home tomorrow and if I like it and the tests show what I am hearing from you guys I will be switching my shop oil to it
Hey Nick,
I have two cases of gallon jugs of the stuff (I love it).
PM me your shipping address & I will send you a gallon for free so you can try it out in your bike before you commit to a larger purchase.
~John
How's this stuff hold up in the heat down South?
Quote from: Mountainman streetbob on March 30, 2015, 11:44:28 AM
Quote from: tc1550 on March 30, 2015, 10:28:32 AM
Will this oil be ok to use in ne cold starts undee 40 deg in fall
Have multiple cold starts in Al betweem 21*-29* started fine no rattles, no extended time for lifters.
This is year round oil in Germany where their winters up north are COOOOOOOLLLLLLDDDDDDDDD :teeth:
The only ride I got this year started out at 34F. The 12 EG fired right up. I did not even try the shovel (same oil).
QuoteI have been using the Liqui Moly formulated for bikes rather than the automotive version.
http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/produktdb.nsf/id/en_1525.html?OpenDocument&land=DE (http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/produktdb.nsf/id/en_1525.html?OpenDocument&land=DE)
I emailed Liqui Moly and they recommended the Bike oil over the Auto version
Wish I'd seen that before the 10 liters of the "Auto version" showed up today.
Quote from: 76shuvlinoff on March 30, 2015, 05:23:39 PM
QuoteI have been using the Liqui Moly formulated for bikes rather than the automotive version.
http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/produktdb.nsf/id/en_1525.html?OpenDocument&land=DE (http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/produktdb.nsf/id/en_1525.html?OpenDocument&land=DE)
I emailed Liqui Moly and they recommended the Bike oil over the Auto version
Wish I'd seen that before the 10 liters of the "Auto version" showed up today.
Mark...don't use that stuff!
Send it to me so I can safely dispose of it for you...via thru my engine. :wink:
Ray
Quote from: UltraNutZ on March 30, 2015, 02:50:26 PM
Quote from: jmorton10 on March 30, 2015, 03:29:13 AM
Quote from: Just Nick on March 29, 2015, 06:43:12 PM
Bubbie and Ray I will be trying it in my bike I hope I can find it in stock somewhere on my way home tomorrow and if I like it and the tests show what I am hearing from you guys I will be switching my shop oil to it
Hey Nick,
I have two cases of gallon jugs of the stuff (I love it).
PM me your shipping address & I will send you a gallon for free so you can try it out in your bike before you commit to a larger purchase.
~John
How's this stuff hold up in the heat down South?
IF you are meaning the 10w60 Moly?
I'm SOUTH and it was HOT going through Phoenix with all the Back-ups and accidents n on 17... Stop n go and fighting to Not get hit by some... (well you know)
Never took the IR gun out then, had my hands full of Dodge Game... :smileo: Motor not running hot then and at many stops n idles at light in 90* temps coming back down from Kingman. Lake Havasu IS a WARM Place and Long lights. No over heat noticed.. My bike IS tuned great but Still never ran THIS Cool with 20/50 Redline. I've used Red for years and in many bikes.
I'm Happy with it to date...
signed....BUBBIE
Quote from: BUBBIE on March 30, 2015, 10:59:25 PM
IF you are meaning the 10w60 Moly?
I'm SOUTH and it was HOT going through Phoenix with all the Back-ups and accidents n on 17... Stop n go and fighting to Not get hit by some... (well you know)
Never took the IR gun out then, had my hands full of Dodge Game... :smileo: Motor not running hot then and at many stops n idles at light in 90* temps coming back down from Kingman. Lake Havasu IS a WARM Place and Long lights. No over heat noticed.. My bike IS tuned great but Still never ran THIS Cool with 20/50 Redline. I've used Red for years and in many bikes.
I'm Happy with it to date...
signed....BUBBIE
yes sir I was referring to the Moly.
Thanks Bubbie.. :up:
QuoteMark...don't use that stuff!
Send it to me so I can safely dispose of it for you...via thru my engine. :wink:
Ray
Thanks Ray but I think this 10 liters will go the same place the last 10 liters did. :teeth:
Wonder what this 10w60 LM would or wouldn't do in a 16 year old 135,000 mile 5.3 Chevy V8?
Quote from: 76shuvlinoff on March 31, 2015, 04:27:58 AM
Wonder what this 10w60 LM would or wouldn't do in a 16 year old 135,000 mile 5.3 Chevy V8?
Anytime you change over a vehicle with that many miles, you are supposed to use a cleaner first before changing to synthetic. I've used 4 qts of diesel and one qt of cheap oil, new filter, crank engine and let idle only un til it comes up to operating temps, then let idle for 5 or 10 minutes more. This is supposed to remove the sludge from the engine first. If it stops the filter up, it is best to repeat and do again. Then after you finally get a clean filter, change to the synthetic. I had a friend that did not do this and it ended up stopping up the pick up screen on the oil pump and caused real problems. He saved the engine by turning it off as soon as it lost oil pressure. He then had to remove the oil pan and clean the pan and pick up screen.
Well you've got me interested enough to give it a try myself. Just ordered it through Amazon. :bike:
When on their site, the oil recommended for HD's is specific to bikes and comes in 20/50 and 10/50 viscosities. I am not seeing the 10/60 in the bike section, is this an auto/diesel oil that can be used in bikes? Seems like the difference in viscosity might have something to do with the additional cooling. :scratch:
Quote from: 76shuvlinoff on March 31, 2015, 04:27:58 AM
Wonder what this 10w60 LM would or wouldn't do in a 16 year old 135,000 mile 5.3 Chevy V8?
a 5.3 in 1999?
Quote from: Templar2 on March 31, 2015, 06:35:19 AM
When on their site, the oil recommended for HD's is specific to bikes and comes in 20/50 and 10/50 viscosities. I am not seeing the 10/60 in the bike section, is this an auto/diesel oil that can be used in bikes? Seems like the difference in viscosity might have something to do with the additional cooling. :scratch:
Yes this automotive oil used in bmw cars and motorcycles.
this thread dates back to 7-2014 and back then the prices may have been $8.99/l but the cheapest I'm finding it now is $11.99/l so they must be catching on that we are using it.
Quote from: Mountainman streetbob on March 31, 2015, 07:57:02 AM
Quote from: 76shuvlinoff on March 31, 2015, 04:27:58 AM
Wonder what this 10w60 LM would or wouldn't do in a 16 year old 135,000 mile 5.3 Chevy V8?
a 5.3 in 1999?
Yep, 99 z71 Silverado, bought new Nov 98.
For all that effort to switch over an old truck I think I'll stick with the NAPA 5w30 it's had since new.
Paid $11.99 yesterday in West Chester PA
Quote from: UltraNutZ on March 31, 2015, 09:23:18 AM
this thread dates back to 7-2014 and back then the prices may have been $8.99/l but the cheapest I'm finding it now is $11.99/l so they must be catching on that we are using it.
eBay $78 for 10 liters, free delivery, hit my doorstep yesterday.
Quote from: 76shuvlinoff on March 31, 2015, 09:39:44 AM
Quote from: UltraNutZ on March 31, 2015, 09:23:18 AM
this thread dates back to 7-2014 and back then the prices may have been $8.99/l but the cheapest I'm finding it now is $11.99/l so they must be catching on that we are using it.
eBay $78 for 10 liters, free delivery, hit my doorstep yesterday.
Link please sir..
Not sure if this is the exact seller I used but here it is 10L for $75
http://www.ebay.com/itm/TWO-Liqui-Moly-Race-Tech-GT-1-10W-60-Synthetic-Motor-Oil-10-liters-for-M3-M5-M6-/281372982284?hash=item418322fc0c&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/TWO-Liqui-Moly-Race-Tech-GT-1-10W-60-Synthetic-Motor-Oil-10-liters-for-M3-M5-M6-/281372982284?hash=item418322fc0c&vxp=mtr)
Note: this is the Automotive version
so is the only difference between 2068 and 2024 the fact that 2068 is 1l and 2024 is 5l?
Quote from: UltraNutZ on March 31, 2015, 09:48:05 AM
so is the only difference between 2068 and 2024 the fact that 2068 is 1l and 2024 is 5l?
I can't seem to spot those #s (2068 and 2024) but what I bought last time came in (2) 5 liter bottles. I have not opened the shipment from yesterday yet.
http://ebay.to/1C2xj4T
Quote from: 76shuvlinoff on March 31, 2015, 09:54:10 AM
Quote from: UltraNutZ on March 31, 2015, 09:48:05 AM
so is the only difference between 2068 and 2024 the fact that 2068 is 1l and 2024 is 5l?
I can't seem to spot those #s (2068 and 2024) but what I bought last time came in (2) 5 liter bottles. I have not opened the shipment from yesterday yet.
Edit opened the package from yesterday. I got 10 1l bottles. Packing slip says the material description is 2068 Engine Oil.
Called LM. Yep 2068 is 1l and 2024 is 5l of the same oil.
I'll give it a whirl since Bubbie, Ray, and Mark recommend it. I noticed Saturday while out riding in 83° temps that my oil temps climbed just a tad over 300°.
The biggest waste of money I've ever spent on this bike was that Jagg Fan Assisted Oil Cooler. Has done absolutely squat for my oil temps.
UltraNutZ,
I only use a 6 row Jagg on my down tube frame above the oil filter (left side). Using the thermo unit between the oil filter with the hose connectors.
I am Anxious to see the oil temps go Down on your bike... Just don't understand 300* ...
Hopefully it will drop to an Acceptable Number...
Ray posted some numbers like 20+ degrees off his Normal oil temps. Mine show Lower than I Need on my 09 King TC 103 using the SE255 that most say Run Hot :hyst:
You need oil anyways, so no harm no foul...
signed....BUBBIE
My bike would run in the 225*- 230* range in the heat of the summer months using either Mobil 1 15w50 or Amsoil 60wt. Those temp's were noted using a HD oil cooler with running the Big Sky fans behind the oil cooler. My fans are hard wired to a switch on the dash. I would turn them on and leave them on when it was hot out. If the bike was sitting at hot idle and I turned the fans off I have seen oil temp's rise up into to the 250*+ range...so I usually ran the fans when it got to the hotter summer months.
I can say this for a fact...when I switched over to the LiquiMoly 10W60 the hottest temperature I've ever seen on my bike last summer was 214*...without the use of my fans.
I rode the bike to work today for the first time this year and I took the long way home. :bike: ...damn that felt good! When I got home I checked the oil temp in the tank with my laser gun and it read the same as my gauge...192*...and I had no fans on. I turned the fans on for giggles and chits while the bike was idling in the barn and my oil temp dropped to 180* in the matter of a couple of minutes. I turned the fans back off and the oil temp rose back up to the 192* ...and it didn't go any higher. This was checked on a well heat soaked 11.75:1 compression 124" engine.
Granted the outside temp was only 68*...but I know for a fact that this oil has dropped my operating oil temp's down by a good 10*- 15*.
Ray
How's this stuff hold up in the heat down South?
[/quote]
In ambient temps up to 105*f and with engine temps up to 250*f it is working fine in my bike.
Quote from: 76shuvlinoff on March 30, 2015, 05:23:39 PM
QuoteI have been using the Liqui Moly formulated for bikes rather than the automotive version.
http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/produktdb.nsf/id/en_1525.html?OpenDocument&land=DE (http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/produktdb.nsf/id/en_1525.html?OpenDocument&land=DE)
I emailed Liqui Moly and they recommended the Bike oil over the Auto version
Wish I'd seen that before the 10 liters of the "Auto version" showed up today.
Local BMW dealer in B'ham AND Memphis use the "auto" version in bikes and cars... Napa stocks the auto stuff, orders the motorcycle stuff, I am not sure the motorcycle formula is worth the effort???
Quote from: UltraNutZ on March 31, 2015, 10:12:13 AM
Called LM. Yep 2068 is 1l and 2024 is 5l of the same oil.
I'll give it a whirl since Bubbie, Ray, and Mark recommend it. I noticed Saturday while out riding in 83° temps that my oil temps climbed just a tad over 300°.
The biggest waste of money I've ever spent on this bike was that Jagg Fan Assisted Oil Cooler. Has done absolutely squat for my oil temps.
300* ??????????
In 100* 100% humidity all sun no clouds weather on a highway blitz near memphis into a accident inspired traffic jam I saw 280* with a friends bike...
Is your thermostat plugged or not working?
300* is nuts.....
well I ordered 3 cases of the stuff. we'll see how it handles the heat. The Jagg oil cooler is coming off and putting my stock back on early next week also
Quote from: UltraNutZ on March 31, 2015, 02:37:32 PM
well I ordered 3 cases of the stuff. we'll see how it handles the heat. The Jagg oil cooler is coming off and putting my stock back on early next week also
Check out the cooler and lines, something is wrong, Every Jagg I have installed worked BETTER than the factory one. There has to be something wrong.
I pulled it apart once already and inspected everything including the thermostat that worked as advertised to kick the fans on. I even pressure tested the cooler itself to 15PSI and all appeared to be in good order. :scratch:
Have you been able to verify flow through the oil's thermostat? Something is amok... :idunno:
yes sir.. works perfectly fine..
Quote from: No Cents on March 31, 2015, 02:02:59 PM
My bike would run in the 225*- 230* range in the heat of the summer months using either Mobil 1 15w50 or Amsoil 60wt. Those temp's were noted using a HD oil cooler with running the Big Sky fans behind the oil cooler. My fans are hard wired to a switch on the dash. I would turn them on and leave them on when it was hot out. If the bike was sitting at hot idle and I turned the fans off I have seen oil temp's rise up into to the 250*+ range...so I usually ran the fans when it got to the hotter summer months.
I can say this for a fact...when I switched over to the LiquiMoly 10W60 the hottest temperature I've ever seen on my bike last summer was 214*...without the use of my fans.
I rode the bike to work today for the first time this year and I took the long way home. :bike: ...damn that felt good! When I got home I checked the oil temp in the tank with my laser gun and it read the same as my gauge...192*...and I had no fans on. I turned the fans on for giggles and chits while the bike was idling in the barn and my oil temp dropped to 180* in the matter of a couple of minutes. I turned the fans back off and the oil temp rose back up to the 192* ...and it didn't go any higher. This was checked on a well heat soaked 11.75:1 compression 124" engine.
Granted the outside temp was only 68*...but I know for a fact that this oil has dropped my operating oil temp's down by a good 10*- 15*.
Ray
:o
Nuts,
Have you checked to see "IF" the Temp Gauge is accurate at showing that High 300* temp.? Might just be the gauge...
IF you would just try the oil First, AND check the gauge... Might that be Less Work that you don't need.
signed....BUBBIE
ADDED:
300* chews and uses up the oil pretty fast... Does you oil get Black or Dark Quickly in fewer Miles than normal?
Viscosity of the oil goes :down: quickly with that much heat running...
HOW About the COLOR of the oil early on?
Bubbie, dropped the Medallion sensor in boiling water to test..
it was close to (maybe not 100% accurate) but very close to 210-ish
I noticed this on my DD gauge but since I've replaced them (sensor and all) with the Medallion gauges, same thing.
I'm going to cut open the oil filter next week when I do the oil change to see if I can see anything there.
Quote from: jmorton10 on March 30, 2015, 03:29:13 AM
Quote from: Just Nick on March 29, 2015, 06:43:12 PM
Bubbie and Ray I will be trying it in my bike I hope I can find it in stock somewhere on my way home tomorrow and if I like it and the tests show what I am hearing from you guys I will be switching my shop oil to it
Hey Nick,
I have two cases of gallon jugs of the stuff (I love it).
PM me your shipping address & I will send you a gallon for free so you can try it out in your bike before you commit to a larger purchase.
~John
Jmorton Thank you very much for the offer
Quote from: 76shuvlinoff on March 31, 2015, 04:25:37 AM
QuoteMark...don't use that stuff!
Send it to me so I can safely dispose of it for you...via thru my engine. :wink:
Ray
Thanks Ray but I think this 10 liters will go the same place the last 10 liters did. :teeth:
somehow Mark...I knew you was going to say that :bike:
Ray
Quote from: UltraNutZ on April 01, 2015, 09:45:15 AM
Bubbie, dropped the Medallion sensor in boiling water to test..
it was close to (maybe not 100% accurate) but very close to 210-ish
I noticed this on my DD gauge but since I've replaced them (sensor and all) with the Medallion gauges, same thing.
I'm going to cut open the oil filter next week when I do the oil change to see if I can see anything there.
I don't know if it is an option but I have used the factory adapter with wards parts werks inline thermostat 2 times with a jagg oil cooler and it worked well both times, The inline oil thermostat is cheap like $15, might be worth a try.
:oil: 4,000 miles on the Moly 10w60 oil today. 2,000 miles to go before another sample send-in on this Second oil and filter change...
I Rode the freeway hard and took temps AS Soon as I left the freeway...I left the I-10 close to Tucson (Houghton exit)... 85 miles from my home.
Head wind all the way.
Temp shooting the oil inside the 09 Kings oil tank with the dip-stick out. Most I could get was 187*...
Exhaust cylinder temp was 220/230 most on the rear... The front was at 212/220 most off the front.
(shot close to the exhaust header off the heads)
The oil filter end read 110* same as the oil cooler top and bottom as the other day...
signed....BUBBIE
First Blackstone Oil Report can be found on Top of Page 11 on this thread.
Hi Bubbie,
nice reporting on this moly product.
I know you always liked the 20-50 Redline, now I ask why you never tried the 20-60 Redline in that hot climate.
Steve
Steve,
I Have used BOTH the 20/50 and 20/60 Redline... Bought Both by the case...
The way my bike is tuned with the 103" using SE255 cams, it Did run cool with 20/50 and 20/60 really was not needed. Both oil weights worked Great at our High temps here in SE Az. I used the 20/60 until I could not get the Price savgs I did when up in Wa.
20/50 saw no heat problems with the King at all... I mostly kept 20/60 for the other riders here and Now I let them look/buy their own oil...(lazy Buggers) :SM:
I found the 20/50 doing good and just kept that in the bike, not buying the Higher priced 20/60... Case lots is what I buy so one oil was better.
I do use their MTL and the Shockproof Heavy in the King. Formula+ in the sport tranny/primary
I'm not cheap and just liked the 20/50, I seldom do/did city riding Except to get thru them... Like Phoenix at rush hour on hwy 17... :emoGroan:
:angry: That Traffic heats me up getting through there MORE than the oil temps get on the bike...
The 06 1200 Sport R runs TOO Cool here, Really Bad In Wa.... I try to get it over 170/80* and it is tough to do. Why ? I can't say, No cooler on it and it is Hot when I ride it... So the 20/50 worked out Fine using on Both Harleys.
Nothing wrong with Redline at all... Just REALLY Impressed with the 10w60 moly oil. :SM:
signed....BUBBIE
Thanks Bubbie
just looking to see if the 10-60 moly, the 60 part had anything to do with it, but you do not think it does.
I believe the oil temps are down with the moly. Ok, next questions.
think chicken/egg what came first. Have you also checked engine running temps?
what I am asking has the engine cooled down using moly or is the moly not absorbing as much heat as the other oil. to be clear is the lower oil temp resulting in lower overall temperatures of the head, fins and other parts that get hot.
as another nameless party has stated that oil does not reduce temps more than a few degrees, so an oil cooler may not effect the engine temps etc.
Is hotter oil better because it draws away more heat from the engine, OR is the engine running cooler because of the oil.
Steve
:hyst: :hyst: :hyst:
I Should Not touch that one Steve.... Don't have/want to Take the Time to Argue and defend MY Thinking...
I would Not switch oil IF New 10w60 Was Not running the Motor COOLER ALSO... Shuuuuush.. No debate needed from me...
WRONG or RIGHT it is what I SEE and it IS what it IS... Cooler All the Way Around.
To THE Neigh Sayers.....IT Is only OIL so TRY IT yourselves and DRAW Your OWN opinion instead of Quoting Facts that say No It Doesn't cool when YOU Have NOT tried it...
So There.... :gob:
signed....BUBBIE
Quote from: BUBBIE on April 02, 2015, 09:50:32 AM
Steve,
I Have used BOTH the 20/50 and 20/60 Redline... Bought Both by the case...
Bubbie
Where do you buy the Redline at? I'm shopping around for it trying to find the best deal by the case.
Quote from: BUBBIE on April 02, 2015, 11:24:55 AM
:hyst: :hyst: :hyst:
I Should Not touch that one Steve.... Don't have/want to Take the Time to Argue and defend MY Thinking...
I would Not switch oil IF New 10w60 Was Not running the Motor COOLER ALSO... Shuuuuush.. No debate needed from me...
WRONG or RIGHT it is what I SEE and it IS what it IS... Cooler All the Way Around.
To THE Neigh Sayers.....IT Is only OIL so TRY IT yourselves and DRAW Your OWN opinion instead of Quoting Facts that say No It Doesn't cool when YOU Have NOT tried it...
So There.... :gob:
signed....BUBBIE
Fair nuff :potstir: :pop:
If your running the stock ECM, it will be extremely lean from the factory. A full retune from a proper tuner should alleviate some of the heat issues. In my mind there is no way a AIR cooled engine can run safely with afr setting as lean as factory. Settings I've seen show afr's at 14.7 or leaner, especially at idle.
No wonder they run hot.
My S&S T124 runs at 190 degrees on 100 degree days with a G carb and afr around 13.5. HD has been struggling hard to make the air cooled twin meet emissions, which in no way suits the actual requirements.
It certainly appear that the Liduid Moly can help reduce heat and wear, but a proper tune can do as much or more imo.. Buffalo
Well, I really wanted to put more miles on this oil before I dumped it, but I'm leaving for a month long trip next week so I changed engine and primary. Used this 10w60 again and Formula + in the primary. Did not change the tranny, it has Valvoline Synthetic 75w-whatever GL5 gear lube. Replaced the K&N with a new K&N oil Filter. Engine oil drain plug was clean except for a thin coating of grey, very thin. Primary drive drain plug had much more particulate on it, but I've never seen one of them come out clean (except on my Kawasaki VN 2000).
So this oil performed very well from September till today, about 3700 miles. I run a half quart below the add mark, and at 2500 miles on this oil, I was down about a quarter inch on the dipstick. As is my custom at 2500 miles, I added a half bottle of STP Oil Treatment (about 4 ounces) and brought it back up to midway on the dipstick.
I've only done day rides since September, and not much heat to speak of this winter. I did start it early a couple of mornings with the temps in the 30's and I like the 10W part for sure.
My 110 inch with Andrews 57 H cams and S&S lifters is usually quite noisy when fully heat soaked. I don't think I ever got it really hot on this oil change. The motor never really got that loose and rattly sound that I've grown used to when hot.
Oil before this was Redline 20W60 that got the full 5000 miles put on it in the heat of the summer including a Washington DC traffic jam where the heat management system was in full use.
I like this oil and will keep using it as I see no reason not to. Love the price, may just change at 3000 miles because it is so inexpensive.
I have no doubt some oils can cool better or is it the engine having less friction that does it? I don't know. WHen I bought my 05, there was a brand of oil being sold around here called Dyna oil. It was a semi-syn blend I think. I know my bike ran cooler with it. But since then, I have switched to syn oils and have ran the same temp or slightly better. No, I don't believe oil is oil. Some are better suited for different applications than others. JMHO.
OK, so I ordered (2) 5 qt jugs of the 10w-60 last Thursday afternoon from an eBay seller for $75 with FREE shipping. Mail man delivered it this morning. Cost them $54.70 for postage shipping Priority 2 day from CA to AR ! Either the seller isn't interested in making any money or those 5 qt jugs are full of tinted water. I'm almost afraid to use it now. (but I will !)
Changed this morning to LiquiMoly 10-60w since I'm heading to Laughlin week after next and I assume the temps are going to be a little warmer than CO. I purchased the oil 2 month ago but wanted to get at least 2K miles out of the HD 20-50w before the swap.
After I started the bike pressure came up and noise went down. I have 3,607 miles since my FM 98" build with TW555 cams and LevelB heads so I assumed some of the engine noise was a by product of the build. I really love the way is runs so smooth and the bike feels fiesty'r now, more responsive and did I say smooth. Checked the head temp with a digital gun when I got off after my 70 mile trip and the hottest spot was the rear exhaust port area on the throttle side of the motor. It was 285 and dropping about a degree a second with the Wards fan running.
I think I need to keep this oil stocked up for the Ironhead as well. Happy user...
FYI
The price at Amazon has dropped... to $43.11
I ordered my first 5-qt jug today, with FREE shipping.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00CPL918E/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pd_nS_img?_encoding=UTF8&colid=3MDY77PIEJ9&coliid=IJZ1SCYS58KOL&psc=1 (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00CPL918E/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pd_nS_img?_encoding=UTF8&colid=3MDY77PIEJ9&coliid=IJZ1SCYS58KOL&psc=1)
Wow!
[attach=0]
For seven lires.
Not for me...too spendy and only need heat protection for two or three days up here :emsad:.
PLUS $40.63 shipping! :turd:
Does the north get screwed or what! :angry:
Quote from: BUBBIE on April 02, 2015, 11:24:55 AM
:hyst: :hyst: :hyst:
I Should Not touch that one Steve.... Don't have/want to Take the Time to Argue and defend MY Thinking...
I would Not switch oil IF New 10w60 Was Not running the Motor COOLER ALSO... Shuuuuush.. No debate needed from me...
WRONG or RIGHT it is what I SEE and it IS what it IS... Cooler All the Way Around.
To THE Neigh Sayers.....IT Is only OIL so TRY IT yourselves and DRAW Your OWN opinion instead of Quoting Facts that say No It Doesn't cool when YOU Have NOT tried it...
So There.... :gob:
signed....BUBBIE
It's not that........It's because this is the millionth oil being touted as the new miracle oil!!!!!!!! I tried Mobil 1 and Amsoil after all the hype touted on how either would cool things down 20 degrees. yeah yeah yeah, ...............no. My dash gauge and my IR told the truth, absolutely NO CHANGE in temps. I'm glad you are seeing a benefit but I aint gonna try the hyped up synthetic oil flavor of the month again.
Quote from: qtrracer on April 06, 2015, 11:15:57 AM
Quote from: BUBBIE on April 02, 2015, 11:24:55 AM
:hyst: :hyst: :hyst:
I Should Not touch that one Steve.... Don't have/want to Take the Time to Argue and defend MY Thinking...
I would Not switch oil IF New 10w60 Was Not running the Motor COOLER ALSO... Shuuuuush.. No debate needed from me...
WRONG or RIGHT it is what I SEE and it IS what it IS... Cooler All the Way Around.
To THE Neigh Sayers.....IT Is only OIL so TRY IT yourselves and DRAW Your OWN opinion instead of Quoting Facts that say No It Doesn't cool when YOU Have NOT tried it...
So There.... :gob:
signed....BUBBIE
It's not that........It's because this is the millionth oil being touted as the new miracle oil!!!!!!!! I tried Mobil 1 and Amsoil after all the hype touted on how either would cool things down 20 degrees. yeah yeah yeah, ...............no. My dash gauge and my IR told the truth, absolutely NO CHANGE in temps. I'm glad you are seeing a benefit but I aint gonna try the hyped up synthetic oil flavor of the month again.
:agree: I myself am waiting for next month, and the next miracle oil. :oil:
I guess when I have no problems with using the old ass Kendall based formula, in dino form, I must be getting old and lazy... But it works, and works as good as anything else. I for one would love to see a
documented controlled unbiased test that shows oil dropping motor temps.
Quote from: Ohio HD on April 06, 2015, 01:07:15 PM
Quote from: qtrracer on April 06, 2015, 11:15:57 AM
Quote from: BUBBIE on April 02, 2015, 11:24:55 AM
:hyst: :hyst: :hyst:
I Should Not touch that one Steve.... Don't have/want to Take the Time to Argue and defend MY Thinking...
I would Not switch oil IF New 10w60 Was Not running the Motor COOLER ALSO... Shuuuuush.. No debate needed from me...
WRONG or RIGHT it is what I SEE and it IS what it IS... Cooler All the Way Around.
To THE Neigh Sayers.....IT Is only OIL so TRY IT yourselves and DRAW Your OWN opinion instead of Quoting Facts that say No It Doesn't cool when YOU Have NOT tried it...
So There.... :gob:
signed....BUBBIE
It's not that........It's because this is the millionth oil being touted as the new miracle oil!!!!!!!! I tried Mobil 1 and Amsoil after all the hype touted on how either would cool things down 20 degrees. yeah yeah yeah, ...............no. My dash gauge and my IR told the truth, absolutely NO CHANGE in temps. I'm glad you are seeing a benefit but I aint gonna try the hyped up synthetic oil flavor of the month again.
:agree: I myself am waiting for next month, and the next miracle oil. :oil:
I guess when I have no problems with using the old ass Kendall based formula, in dino form, I must be getting old and lazy... But it works, and works as good as anything else. I for one would love to see a documented controlled unbiased test that shows oil dropping motor temps.
Maybe comparing HD 20-50w to any good oil might show results like I've had. So dismiss my post as a wonder oil and just a product that works well in my bike.
Quote from: Ohio HD on April 06, 2015, 01:07:15 PM
Quote from: qtrracer on April 06, 2015, 11:15:57 AM
Quote from: BUBBIE on April 02, 2015, 11:24:55 AM
:hyst: :hyst: :hyst:
I Should Not touch that one Steve.... Don't have/want to Take the Time to Argue and defend MY Thinking...
I would Not switch oil IF New 10w60 Was Not running the Motor COOLER ALSO... Shuuuuush.. No debate needed from me...
WRONG or RIGHT it is what I SEE and it IS what it IS... Cooler All the Way Around.
To THE Neigh Sayers.....IT Is only OIL so TRY IT yourselves and DRAW Your OWN opinion instead of Quoting Facts that say No It Doesn't cool when YOU Have NOT tried it...
So There.... :gob:
signed....BUBBIE
It's not that........It's because this is the millionth oil being touted as the new miracle oil!!!!!!!! I tried Mobil 1 and Amsoil after all the hype touted on how either would cool things down 20 degrees. yeah yeah yeah, ...............no. My dash gauge and my IR told the truth, absolutely NO CHANGE in temps. I'm glad you are seeing a benefit but I aint gonna try the hyped up synthetic oil flavor of the month again.
:agree: I myself am waiting for next month, and the next miracle oil. :oil:
I guess when I have no problems with using the old ass Kendall based formula, in dino form, I must be getting old and lazy... But it works, and works as good as anything else. I for one would love to see a documented controlled unbiased test that shows oil dropping motor temps.
Agree, temps change daily. +/-5* is not worth mentioning and claims if claims of 20* were made, they would just be claims. While it's likely a fine oil for most engines, way too much spread in it for me to think about using it in a shared engine/gearbox as it would shear too quickly.
Ron
Quote from: rbabos on April 06, 2015, 02:54:38 PM
Quote from: Ohio HD on April 06, 2015, 01:07:15 PM
Quote from: qtrracer on April 06, 2015, 11:15:57 AM
Quote from: BUBBIE on April 02, 2015, 11:24:55 AM
:hyst: :hyst: :hyst:
I Should Not touch that one Steve.... Don't have/want to Take the Time to Argue and defend MY Thinking...
I would Not switch oil IF New 10w60 Was Not running the Motor COOLER ALSO... Shuuuuush.. No debate needed from me...
WRONG or RIGHT it is what I SEE and it IS what it IS... Cooler All the Way Around.
To THE Neigh Sayers.....IT Is only OIL so TRY IT yourselves and DRAW Your OWN opinion instead of Quoting Facts that say No It Doesn't cool when YOU Have NOT tried it...
So There.... :gob:
signed....BUBBIE
It's not that........It's because this is the millionth oil being touted as the new miracle oil!!!!!!!! I tried Mobil 1 and Amsoil after all the hype touted on how either would cool things down 20 degrees. yeah yeah yeah, ...............no. My dash gauge and my IR told the truth, absolutely NO CHANGE in temps. I'm glad you are seeing a benefit but I aint gonna try the hyped up synthetic oil flavor of the month again.
:agree: I myself am waiting for next month, and the next miracle oil. :oil:
I guess when I have no problems with using the old ass Kendall based formula, in dino form, I must be getting old and lazy... But it works, and works as good as anything else. I for one would love to see a documented controlled unbiased test that shows oil dropping motor temps.
Agree, temps change daily.
Ron
As do conditions ridden under. Way to many variables to assume a cooler motor, even when measured on the road.
Quote from: Ohio HD on April 06, 2015, 02:57:19 PM
Quote from: rbabos on April 06, 2015, 02:54:38 PM
Quote from: Ohio HD on April 06, 2015, 01:07:15 PM
Quote from: qtrracer on April 06, 2015, 11:15:57 AM
Quote from: BUBBIE on April 02, 2015, 11:24:55 AM
:hyst: :hyst: :hyst:
I Should Not touch that one Steve.... Don't have/want to Take the Time to Argue and defend MY Thinking...
I would Not switch oil IF New 10w60 Was Not running the Motor COOLER ALSO... Shuuuuush.. No debate needed from me...
WRONG or RIGHT it is what I SEE and it IS what it IS... Cooler All the Way Around.
To THE Neigh Sayers.....IT Is only OIL so TRY IT yourselves and DRAW Your OWN opinion instead of Quoting Facts that say No It Doesn't cool when YOU Have NOT tried it...
So There.... :gob:
signed....BUBBIE
It's not that........It's because this is the millionth oil being touted as the new miracle oil!!!!!!!! I tried Mobil 1 and Amsoil after all the hype touted on how either would cool things down 20 degrees. yeah yeah yeah, ...............no. My dash gauge and my IR told the truth, absolutely NO CHANGE in temps. I'm glad you are seeing a benefit but I aint gonna try the hyped up synthetic oil flavor of the month again.
:agree: I myself am waiting for next month, and the next miracle oil. :oil:
I guess when I have no problems with using the old ass Kendall based formula, in dino form, I must be getting old and lazy... But it works, and works as good as anything else. I for one would love to see a documented controlled unbiased test that shows oil dropping motor temps.
Agree, temps change daily.
Ron
As do conditions ridden under. Way to many variables to assume a cooler motor, even when measured on the road.
Don't forget humidity. It's a major player in cooling, as in not cooling as well.
Ron
Here ya go..... 15 yrs or 150,000 miles in most vehicles - Let the fun begin !
http://synlube.com/synthetic-motor-oil.html (http://synlube.com/synthetic-motor-oil.html)
[attach=0]
.
:baby:
Got as far as the claim for aviation engines. Total bs. Pure syns cannot deal with lead acids in aviation fuel. A certain amount of dino with additive is required to take care of that. Mobil1 syn aviation oil trashed a lot of engines when people jumped on the syn band wagon back in the late 70s and early 80s
The ring lands pack up with lead as a result of it's use. Todays modern av oils claiming to be synthetic have a percentage of dino to make them useable. Aeroshell 15w50 being the most common.
The rest of the claims, well I only believe half the "Potty mouth" I read anymore.
Ron
You Know,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
IF you don't want to change oil to the Moly DON'T..
I personally have gone through a lot of WORK here to present the Moly and do the Blackstone Report. Make Up your own mind OR NOT....
NOBODY is twisting YOUR ARM to do "A" Oil Change... YET some of you seem to put in Nothing but NEGATIVE opinions/comments without ever trying it... Some here are Interested in the Findings of the moly oil.
Some of you would BITCH at any statement of Change.
I for one Didn't start this oil Thread but Appreciate Mountainman streetbob for taking the Interest to do so...
IF YOU Don't like the OIL or Believe in the reports made here Don't POST... You are not helping but only to tear into this Thread and do Negative things... Just tossing out your NEGATIVITY only ruins the WORK TRYING to be done here.
I am not the Moderator here... BUT If I were LOL, I sure would ask that saying things, and trying to Tear apart a good thread Didn't happen.
Quote
To THE Neigh Sayers.....IT Is only OIL so TRY IT yourselves and DRAW Your OWN opinion instead of Quoting Facts that say No It Doesn't cool when YOU Have NOT tried it...
So There....
signed....BUBBIE
NOT a reply to rbabos post... At least he is Knowledgeable on the subject...
I for one appreciate the information offered up in this thread. :hug: :sheep: :sheep:
I can't get through these compensator and clutch issues to even try my jug of LM :cry: :emoGroan:
:teeth: Thanks for your hard work BUBBIE.
Quote from: e-glide90 on April 07, 2015, 10:20:35 AM
:teeth: Thanks for your hard work BUBBIE.
:agree: Information is valuable and time is precious...Thanks for both!
Quote from: Blowby on April 07, 2015, 01:00:53 PM
Quote from: e-glide90 on April 07, 2015, 10:20:35 AM
:teeth: Thanks for your hard work BUBBIE.
:agree: Information is valuable and time is precious...Thanks for both!
agreed
Not only did Bubbie give a fine report and will update same, he has sacrificed his bike and himself to put on countless miles in a short period of time in order that we may have this information ASAP. :up: :up: :up:
I also appreciate the information and help Ive received on this site. Stop all the negativity. Whiners and complainers are as bad as those who hijack threads with there own agenda and the ones who ride a harley and bitch how sorry it is.
thank you BUBBIE...I appreciate the testing you have done with this L/Moly oil. :up: :up: :up:
If I lived in a warm climate as you...I would have done the same testing as you did for us.
As far as this being the oil of the month...I don't buy into that one bit. I too see the results.
Maybe we should quit talking about this oil so we don't drive the price of it up for all of us that have actually witnessed the results it produces. :wink:
Ray
Can someone tell me the difference in Nappa part numbers 2024 and 2068? Number I had to order was 2024 Which shows grey container and 2068 is in purple, did I order wrong one?
Quote from: fbn ent on April 07, 2015, 08:39:28 AM
I for one appreciate the information offered up in this thread. :hug: :sheep: :sheep:
X2 :up:
Quote from: bodean46 on April 07, 2015, 02:17:01 PM
Can someone tell me the difference in Nappa part numbers 2024 and 2068? Number I had to order was 2024 Which shows grey container and 2068 is in purple, did I order wrong one?
http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,75005.msg911426.html#msg911426 (http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,75005.msg911426.html#msg911426)
I liked the info in this thread enough that just yesterday I did an oil change on my '12 Limited and switched to LiquiMoly 10w-60.
Probably just my imagination, but my bike sure sounds quieter..... :nix:
Thanks for the info.....
Just for the record I am not recommending this oil but I am indeed using it. I have in no way been able to put enough miles on it to draw any real conclusions of my own. I am following Bubbie's "research" as closely as anyone.
One thing I have noticed is my 12 EG with the factory battery didn't have any issue cranking it over on the 34F degree morning I rode to work. That 103 is stock except for the 48Hs, adjustable PRs and S&S lifters. Seems pretty quiet to me but then my frame of reference is the shovel. (Which is sitting there with this same oil in it). Living in Michigan the TC's engine temps have not been a concern for me since I got rid of the cat and hooked up a PV.
Folks is just too sensitive about their Earl. Just because it seems to work for some doesn't mean it's beating up your oil and taking it's lunch money or talking bad about it's mama. (but it might be dating your lifters)
Just breathe.
Mark
It's discussions like this that keep us all informed !!
Thanks "Bubbie" :up:
Just curious...what is the record HTT thread? Not counting the jokes are we even getting close with this one? :sheep:
This is my vote. :soda:
http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,64175.msg866965.html#msg866965 (http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,64175.msg866965.html#msg866965)
Man, that is one long thread!! :crook:
It looks like this oil of the month has been around since mid July, 2014. Now I need to find the post that tells about the purge process of dino to synthetic. Well... as soon as my Ultrasonic cleaner shows up for my K&P oil filter.
Thanks for the hard work Bubbie. I'm changing mine to L/Moly!
:pop:
Quote from: jachd17 on April 07, 2015, 03:30:23 PM
Quote from: fbn ent on April 07, 2015, 08:39:28 AM
I for one appreciate the information offered up in this thread. :hug: :sheep: :sheep:
X2 :up:
:up: :up: :up:
Same here.... I need a good laugh once in a while! :embarrassed:
While I can appreciate all of you fellers, that get to ride all year & in very warm summer temps. You will have to realize that most of us north of the 49th. just can't grasp it. I ride south quite often & enjoy the "frying" temps. When a trip is planned I throw in mobile synthetic.... for the rest of the year I just use el cheapo Castrol 20/50 & throw in a jug (now just a 1/2 size), to keep the lifters happy & ride! :pop:
Just noticed my man is back! :baby:
Monday:
Windy all over in the afternoon here in Az and NM...I did a long round-a-bout ride up to Safford, Clifton then back over to Duncan, Lordsburg and I-10 west home.
The wind was head-on and this IS the first time my mileage dropped from 45 per gallon to 30. I kept it at 80 mph all the way to Willcox Az.... No sense checking the oil temp, way Too Windy and not even feeling hot... 4,600 miles as of yesterday... Good test on me and the oil as I had a lot of throttle to get and keep 80 and Hold On... Love that Cruise control...
I do appreciate the fact Many here are reading this thread,,,, getting something out of it and adding good informative information PLUS some for fun also... I'm not as big a :turd: as some might think. Eh... IMO only.......
Ray, No Cents,
I know IF you had the weather I do here in Az. You would be out testing the LiquiMoly... Your just that kind of Stand Up Guy... :up:
Added note...
At 4,600 miles now, and they are Hard Hot miles mostly... The Oil color is still a light see through tan Not Dark at all... Even my Redline would be Darker by now...
(motor condition will show up again **** when oil sample is taken at 6,000 miles and analyzed by Blackstone..... This Test will tell a Lot)
Getting rid of this wind SE corner of Az. is not happening for a week or so... This IS our windy time of the year.
Hopefully, I Should finish the mileage out in a week or so... :kick:
:missed: Thinking to head back toward Kingman, up along the Colorado River to final out the mileage... Might touch into California... 29 Palms area...
I Know, I know, It will be Really WARM, I'll dress accordingly...I also wear #30 sunscreen...
This IS a Tough Job BUT someone has to do it... :SM:
You guys up North worry too much about the HEAT down here in the South :hyst:
signed.... BUBBIE
QuoteThis IS a Tough Job BUT someone has to do it... :SM:
and for that we thank you :up:
Quote from: fbn ent on April 07, 2015, 04:54:01 PM
Just curious...what is the record HTT thread? Not counting the jokes are we even getting close with this one? :sheep:
http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?action=stats (http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?action=stats)
Quote from: BUBBIE on April 07, 2015, 09:28:19 PM... here in Az and NM...I did a long round-a-bout ride up to Safford, Clifton then back over to Duncan, Lordsburg and I-10 west home. ...
Well, I've never taken
exactly that route, since "home" was Springerville once. Had a lot of fun on a little heavy but really capable road racer out there. Plan to cover some of the territory again some day, this time on a real bike.
Am looking forward to the next analysis report. Thanks.
Quote from: truck on April 08, 2015, 04:10:16 AM
Quote from: fbn ent on April 07, 2015, 04:54:01 PM
Just curious...what is the record HTT thread? Not counting the jokes are we even getting close with this one? :sheep:
http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?action=stats (http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?action=stats)
Thanks for showing me how I've wasted my life.
oops, did it again. :hyst:
Just something to observe with any oil. If the oil isn't turning dark as fast as previous oil, two things are happening. One, the oil has improved ring sealing to drop overall blowby, or the oil isn't cleaning well. One is good, the other not so much. To have both would be outstanding, and also optomistic.
Ron
:agree: Mark
I should of never started that thread :emoGroan:
Ray
Will running the Auto 10w-60 in my bike make it run cooler also? I didn't look close enough at the numbers and ordered the auto oil.
Ron,
Didn't you leave out one of the Fast Oil Darkening problems and destroying oil early on?
I thought Too Much HEAT was a Killer of Oil. Turning it Black Early On...
The heat seems to be Lower by a bunch using Moly, so the Oil color stays Un-darkened Longer... Could this be the reason here? Hope so... Next report Might bring More to Light... (pun intended) :SM:
Blackstone said My oil (at 4,000) was good for another 2,000 miles and maybe Longer... With Very Few contaminants showing up in the oil (very low amount) ?
I Doubt the "Bad Things" mentioned Like Not cleaning would be here with the Moly... "IF" Not cleaning, (IMO) IT Will would probably come into View Farther down the road though when taken apart and looked or rebuilt on top.
I'll think the ones using 10w60 moly AND saying it "felt" like a little more power = (Ring Seal)... ?
I told Ray once about the sticky-ness of the Moly when I pulled the gaterman lifters out for inspection... This was after Moly was run for a while in the motor before the First oil change... The motor was sitting for a 3 days Cold, Not fresh started , moving oil around... Moly seemed More like a Good sticking Pre-Lube... Covered the Pushrods and stayed put there.
Maybe it should be called Sticky Moly.
signed....BUBBIE
YES,,,,,STICKY Not :turd: :hyst:
Quote from: BUBBIE on April 08, 2015, 08:49:57 AM
Ron,
Didn't you leave out one of the Fast Oil Darkening problems and destroying oil early on?
I thought Too Much HEAT was a Killer of Oil. Turning it Black Early On...
The heat seems to be Lower by a bunch using Moly, so the Oil color stays Un-darkened Longer... Could this be the reason here? Hope so... Next report Might bring More to Light... (pun intended) :SM:
Blackstone said My oil (at 4,000) was good for another 2,000 miles and maybe Longer... With Very Few contaminants showing up in the oil (very low amount) ?
I Doubt the "Bad Things" mentioned Like Not cleaning would be here with the Moly... "IF" Not cleaning, (IMO) IT Will would probably come into View Farther down the road though when taken apart and looked or rebuilt on top.
I'll think the ones using 10w60 moly AND saying it "felt" like a little more power = (Ring Seal)... ?
I told Ray once about the sticky-ness of the Moly when I pulled the gaterman lifters out for inspection... This was after Moly was run for a while in the motor before the First oil change... The motor was sitting for a 3 days Cold, Not fresh started , moving oil around... Moly seemed More like a Good sticking Pre-Lube... Covered the Pushrods and stayed put there.
Maybe it should be called Sticky Moly.
signed....BUBBIE
YES,,,,,STICKY Not :turd: :hyst:
Could be in the form of better ring sealing but that could only be proven with an outflow measurement from the head breathers, comparing both oils at identical temps , rpms and load on the same engine. Not a test anyone would be willing to do.
I can't use the oil in the v rod but I can't find anything wrong with it in your application.
Ron
This is taken off the Dip-Stick today Cold... Showing Full. Color is a little more Brown on the dip-stick than the photo shows BUT Very see through...
Mind you; this is at 4600 Hard ridden miles through some Hot temps outside.
Jpeg photo attached
signed....BUBBIE
Now we are doing oil analysis by colors? :koolaid3:
The blackening is from blow by and or an overly rich mixture
Quote from: HD Street Performance on April 09, 2015, 03:23:15 PM
Now we are doing oil analysis by colors? :koolaid3:
The blackening is from blow by and or an overly rich mixture
Don, slowly back away from the oil thread..... you'll slip on it...... :smilep:
Quote from: BUBBIE on April 09, 2015, 12:33:42 PM
This is taken off the Dip-Stick today Cold... Showing Full. Color is a little more Brown on the dip-stick than the photo shows BUT Very see through...
Mind you; this is at 4600 Hard ridden miles through some Hot temps outside.
Jpeg photo attached
signed....BUBBIE
That looks wore out to me. Made the rag dirty. Imagine what the inside of your engine looks like? :potstir: Sorry Lonnie, I couldn't help myself. :teeth:
Ron
Quote from: rbabos on April 09, 2015, 03:44:24 PM
Quote from: BUBBIE on April 09, 2015, 12:33:42 PM
This is taken off the Dip-Stick today Cold... Showing Full. Color is a little more Brown on the dip-stick than the photo shows BUT Very see through...
Mind you; this is at 4600 Hard ridden miles through some Hot temps outside.
Jpeg photo attached
signed....BUBBIE
That looks wore out to me. Made the rag dirty. Imagine what the inside of your engine looks like? :potstir: Sorry Lonnie, I couldn't help myself. :teeth:
Ron
Ron, that is totally unfair, you should have seen the rag before it was wiped with oil. maybe it was already dirty. :idunno:
I think you guys missed your calling. I heard dynojet was hiring calibration engineers......
Oops what is the standard???????
😀
:gob:
All I thought to do was to SHOW the oil color as being Light not BLACK... :turd:
Let YOU professionals do the thinking. Like You Have...
Gad, Give ME Some Slack Here....
signed....BUBBIE
There IS NO Black, just the way it looks where the paper is folded...
Seems like "A" Tough Crowd of Knowitalls Here...
Corrected Correctly.....
Well Don,
Did you put your LiquiMoly oil in yet ? like you said in the PM to me?
THEN you can watch the colors also... :hyst:
signed....BUBBIE
"Seems like a Tough Crowd of Knowitalls Here..."
Whatever do you mean "seems" Bubbie? :hyst:
Oh my gawd. Use the oil, don't use the oil. It's as easy as that.
I just love the fact that it is 10W for easy starting, and 60wt for when it gets hot, and it is inexpensive enough to change at 3k miles and no go broke.
We sit around and bitsch about the high cost of Syn3 and Redline oils, and when a viable alternative comes along, it's more bitsching.
$25 bucks for oil at a oil change is pretty good in my book. I know, why pay $35k dollars for a motorcycle and skimp on the oil? Well, I use free air in my tires too.
YOU USE FREE AIR?? You'll ruin your bike. You need the ultra pure high mileage air. And don't forget to change out the winter air for summer air or you'll have nothing but problems.
Quote from: r0de_runr on April 09, 2015, 06:41:28 PM
Oh my gawd. Use the oil, don't use the oil. It's as easy as that.
I just love the fact that it is 10W for easy starting, and 60wt for when it gets hot, and it is inexpensive enough to change at 3k miles and no go broke.
We sit around and bitsch about the high cost of Syn3 and Redline oils, and when a viable alternative comes along, it's more bitsching.
$25 bucks for oil at a oil change is pretty good in my book. I know, why pay $35k dollars for a motorcycle and skimp on the oil? Well, I use free air in my tires too.
Quote from: BUBBIE on April 09, 2015, 06:31:12 PM
Well Don,
Did you put your LiquiMoly oil in yet ? like you said in the PM to me?
THEN you can watch the colors also... :hyst:
signed....BUBBIE
It hasn't made it out of the back seat of my truck yet. Bike is still up. I have to get out from a pile of heads first.
Your motor is tight, the mixture is ballpark, and you change your oil often. That is what preserves the oil and that would be the same with any of them with a decent detergent package. Oil life and the ability to compare brand to brand takes oil analysis. This is not rocket science but does separate the runners from the also runs. The goal is determined by the difference of what TBN-TAN=. If TBN-TAN becomes negative, oil can no longer protect against wear and corrosion. Where that occurs, how many accumulated miles, is a good indication of the true quality of an oil. When large additive packages are used because of poor unstable base oils or to provide a very large delta in viscosity this length of time decreases. High heat and corresponding oxidation contributes and will cause acids to form more rapidly. The more positive TBN-TAN the better the wear protection is. Initial TBN is very important, this is new oil out of the bottle. With a higher initial TBN, it will take the increasing TAN longer to reach the decreasing TBN.
The First Blackstone report giving my motor a "Longer Use" saying it will go another 2,000 miles (above the 4,000) was because of what you are saying above. Good Oil and Good Build....
I know I have good ring seal and that is a Big Plus. Oil has never needed adding on this 103 build (bored 103" and rings fitted by prodrag1320 Kirby) :SM: and my ccc is top notch also, close within a pound or two of front to back.
So With This as you state, My Good build, Good Oil should last Longer...?... Lubricating the motor with most any Good Oil, The Oil condition Should last longer as I don't have the "negative issues in my build" that some BAD/Worn-out builds do?
So any Good Oil should be able to run longer in mine...
The moly lasting longer in my Build Might Not Last as long in another because of Issues like said above... (metal material found in Brice's)
So Joe Smutt (not to be confused with Joe_lyons) might not get the SAME GREAT results with the 10w60 Moly oil UNLESS his build is also top notch...
Hummm :gob: Well WELL.... Interesting... :potstir:
signed....BUBBIE
signed....BUBBIE First cup of coffee just finished :kick:
ADDED NOTE:
MY Blackstone Oil Report Located on TOP of Page #11
at least your backing up the (color) with analysis, without that yeah :turd:
Working on the oil mileage... :oil:
Made Kingman late today via Gila Bend Nicely warm in the 80*, Lake Havasu Toasty at 94* Lots of stop n go lights as usual... No over heating problems...
Turned over 5,000 miles on the oil as of today, Still running full on the bike and Not Dark in color...
By time I get done riding around here and Home again, it will be at or more than 6,000 Hard miles for the Blackstone sampling...
SOON....
signed....BUBBIE
Got 5 liter jug of 10W-60 Liqui Moly @ NAPA a month ago and after 1000 miles in my 84 FXRS - well, it loves it. Quieter an smokes less. Go to NAPA dot com and pre-ordet @ $45 for store pick-up. It will be my main choice from now on, thanks to this thread.
Quote from: BUBBIE on April 11, 2015, 10:41:31 PM
Working on the oil mileage... :oil:
Made Kingman late today via Gila Bend Nicely warm in the 80*, Lake Havasu Toasty at 94* Lots of stop n go lights as usual... No over heating problems...
Turned over 5,000 miles on the oil as of today, Still running full on the bike and Not Dark in color...
By time I get done riding around here and Home again, it will be at or more than 6,000 Hard miles for the Blackstone sampling...
SOON....
signed....BUBBIE
You ride for work or what? :bike:
I hope your next Blackstone sample turns out to be as good as your 1st one Lonnie. :up:
I rode almost 200 miles Sunday. The outside temp only got up into the mid 70's...and the hottest I seen my oil temp was 200* on a well heat soaked 11.75:1 compression 124" engine that might of seen a little bit of abuse thrown at it on my ride. I do know for a fact that the rear tire has less tread on it now after that ride. :scoot:
Ray
:baby:
Well, I just got in from my WORK... :SM:
Riding around all over Az. and Snuck into Calf. (80 miles) and Nevada (200)...
The oil sample was taken out of the oil tank tonight (Hot). 6,111.0 miles on this 10w60 LiquiMoly
I never needed to add oil in that test of 6,111.0 miles. Right up on the full mark...
Oil sample will go out on Monday 4/20th...
Looking for a good report.
I normally don't go over 4,000 MOST on oil and filter changes...
Oil Still looks light Tan and very see-through on the dip-stick...
This ride has ALL the Normal and Abnormal miles. Stop and Go and Wait at lights in 94* temps and NO sign of over heating the 103" motor...
MCE, Did you hear that? NO over heating and using SE255 cams... :hyst:
The 103" build is at about 40,000 miles and Not a drop of oil does it use.
The QUALITY of my 103" Build Shows and credit goes to pordrag1320 Kirby's Bore and Ring fit for me... :SM: :up: :SM:
Along with Kirby's fine job plus Don's Head Work, IT makes My Ride a Kick A$$ 103" TC . :SM:
signed....BUBBIE
I have a jug sitting on the workbench...gonna give it a go when it's time for the next oil change...thanks for the feedback and sharing of your experiences Bubbie
Looking good Bubbie, Can't wait to see the next blackstone report.
Interesting:
http://youtu.be/oi_J4SZUlSo (http://youtu.be/oi_J4SZUlSo)
A little science to color evaluation.
Bob
Bob, stop clouding things with facts!!
I actually use the oil life on my Silverado, gets changed anywhere from 7,500 to 8,500 miles. My Ultra gets changed at 5,000, my street Glide at 2,500, mainly cause I run the crap out of it.
Regardless Of what my Blackstone report says about this oil at 6,111.0, I plan to change it Either today or tomorrow.
Changing All Three: :oil:
Engine; replacing it with the same 10w60 LiquiMoly and using a KnN oil filter
Primary; same as I always use, Redline MTL
Tranny; Redline ShockProof Heavy... Not due yet BUT then I'm all set for the summer...
Good Vid BUT I'd like to hear him report more on How long it takes the oil to Turn Black from Brown and cause...
The oil sample I took out still had that good pour value he talked about and no really Dark color.
Last report from Blackstone said to go another 2,000 miles (sample sent in at 4,000 mi) and send in the next sample after 6,000mi BUT I drained it and added new oil and filter.
THEN put on a New Full 6,111.0 miles for This check for them. This IS the Second Full changed oil to go to Blackstone...
Anxious for that report. I MAY just change my mileage intervals to 6,000 miles :pop:
signed....BUBBIE
Got the Engine oil and filter changed tonight like planned along with the MTL in the Primary...
Holding off until next time I get back from a ride to change the ShockProof as Tranny lube cooled quickly... I want the SP/tranny Hot when I change.
I Found that the tranny ShockProof had 11,000 miles on it, SO no hurry there...
Today going out with my wife on the bike and probably put on 300 miles on the New changed 10w60/oil filter KnN and the primary MTL...
I won't be doing any more testing on the oil other than Using it. IF I get a good report again this time at the 6,111. miles on it, that will be enough to tell me (and some of You) it is a keeper. :up:
Sent yesterday and Soon they will get the Email report back to me and I will post it. ? sb next mid week. :pop:
signed....BUBBIE
Coyote has the PDF for posting here... ALL: :SM: :SM: :SM: :SM: :SM: :SM: :SM: :SM: :SM: :SM: :SM: :SM: :SM:
That should tell you something... :up:
signed....BUBBIE
Here you go.
[attach=0]
Quote from: Mountainman streetbob on July 14, 2014, 06:59:22 PM
I was choking on paying $15+ a quart (including tax and shipping) for quality 20w-60 redline, 60wt amsoil etc etc etc and started looking for high quality oils. I came across LIQUI MOLI being used in motorcycle racing and off road racing and I kept seeing this oil popping up in baja, dakar, rallies, LeMans and european races... I started to investigate this oil and found it being in m-type bmw's and some other european sports cars from the factories...
Then I found it at NAPA! It is $8.52 a quart if purchased 5 liters at a time! Anyone else know of a 100% synthetic 60wt under $9 a quart including tax?
Memphis summers are brutal on twin cams. The quietest twin cams I have been around are running amsoil 60 wt and 20w-60 redline.
No I don't want to start an arguement about 60wt oil, I will just say Eric Buell uses 60wt and oil in their racebikes and SEVERAL endurance twins with major records from multiple manufacturers run 20w-60. To my ears in my bikes the 60wt and 20w-60 oil is definitely quieter when the temps are over 90*...
However even here in Memphis we only have those temps for 3 months... The nighttime temps are down in the 50's-60's for 6 more months and high's in the 80's and 90's. This requires changing the oil every 3 months to meet the MOCO's suggestions.
100% synthetic, SL rated, Euro A3 and B4 ratings, CF rated as well (that's for old dirty diesels!) 8000km(5000mile) change interval,
60wt cushion for a quiet top end and 10wt flow for quick lubrication properties at start up... :teeth:
Has anyone heard of or used this oil? Sure seems like it might be a great year round oil for us Southerners.
I ordered 5 liters of it to try out and send to blackstone come the next 5000 miles service.
All right everyone let me know what I am missing? What have I overlooked? Let me know what I am doing wrong. :potstir:
THE THANKS GOES HERE....:
Brice H Dyal The "Mountainmman"
US Army 89-01 35H/12B US Army AMC....
You Da Man.... IF not for you I would not have a sore A$$ for all the miles and Tough CONDITIONS the Oil went thru....
Many here May use this oil and it shows GREAT from Blackstone... I'll still change my oil and filter at 4,000 miles BUT when the need for extended change (on a long Ride) it will and can be safely done.
Thanks
signed....BUBBIE
Self EDIT: added Information in Bold.... Brice showed above on one of his Post signatures....
Excellent job & another great report back Lonnie! :up:
I will continue to use it in my bike. I know for a fact that my bike runs cooler and quieter with it.
Thanks for your effort and money you put forth!
Ray
Thank you Bubbie, I have been following this thread and glad I did. Now I will try the LiquiMoly.
Appreciate all your time for this.
Quick question... I see a % drop in Moly thats more than the others. Any known reason for this ?
Being that moly is part of the additive package not typically generated from wear I would guess the manufacturer changed the blend.
No need to change sooner, the report proves that. TBN impressive for that number of miles
Don,
Might the change be from the Left-over Redline oil in the motor on the first report?
That is one reason I fully changed at 4,000 miles to make sure None OR Very Little of the Redline was in this 6,111 report...
signed....BUBBIE
added:
I'll probably do another Blackstone at 6,000 miles Just to Compare though... BUTT not as quickly finished as this one... :SM:
This might have been shared in thread, but here are Liqui Moly 15W50 and 20W50 oils.
Liqui Moly 1689 Motorbike 4T 15W-50 Street Engine Oil - 4 Liter
http://www.amazon.com/Liqui-Moly-1689-Motorbike-15W-50/dp/B00D91Q402/ref=sr_1_11?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1430424596&sr=1-11 (http://www.amazon.com/Liqui-Moly-1689-Motorbike-15W-50/dp/B00D91Q402/ref=sr_1_11?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1430424596&sr=1-11)
Liqui Moly 2013 Racing 4T 4-Stroke SAE 20W-50 Motor Oil - 5 Liter Jug
http://www.amazon.com/Liqui-Moly-2013-Racing-4-Stroke/dp/B00CPL8T82/ref=sr_1_10?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1430424518&sr=1-10 (http://www.amazon.com/Liqui-Moly-2013-Racing-4-Stroke/dp/B00CPL8T82/ref=sr_1_10?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1430424518&sr=1-10)
Very good info Lonnie! :up: Thanks for going to the trouble. :beer:
:agree:
Can this be true: :potstir:
an oil thread that shows the proof...with the hard facts to back it up!
Lonnie...you did good my friend! :up:
Ray
:agree:
Problem is very few actually back up what they say. Testing! :up:
Bubbie have them run TAN next time. Would also be helpful to see know the TBN of the new oil. Specifications from the manufacturer should tell that number.
There is a fair increase in the iron content. From 6 to 10.
BTW, I have some in my bike now. Long ways from getting a sample.
I don't think it is very quiet. At least not as quiet as the Kendall dino oil I took out.
hell Bob...I can't even find Kendall dino oil on the shelf anywhere anymore.
Where have you been buying it at?
Ray
Ray, Brad Penn bought out the true Kendall formula years ago. I use it in the 117. It's quiet, as compared to anything else I've ever used. Back when Kendall was still Kendall, it's all I used in everything. Oil pressure also stays high no mater how hot the motor.
http://www.penngrade1.com/ (http://www.penngrade1.com/)
The Brad Penn is an excellent choice. The air cooled Porsche road racers out here in California really like it.
Quote from: Ohio HD on April 30, 2015, 05:43:57 PM
Ray, Brad Penn bought out the true Kendall formula years ago. I use it in the 117. It's quiet, as compared to anything else I've ever used. Back when Kendall was still Kendall, it's all I used in everything. Oil pressure also stays high no mater how hot the motor.
http://www.penngrade1.com/ (http://www.penngrade1.com/)
100% not true. Brad Penn bought a former Kendall refinery. Just the plant, not the formula or the additives, or the dye.
Kendall is still Kendall.
Ray, I just go to the warehouse and grab it and tell them to charge me. I am sure I could find someone near you to get some.
Quote from: WI Bob on April 30, 2015, 07:05:20 PM
Quote from: Ohio HD on April 30, 2015, 05:43:57 PM
Ray, Brad Penn bought out the true Kendall formula years ago. I use it in the 117. It's quiet, as compared to anything else I've ever used. Back when Kendall was still Kendall, it's all I used in everything. Oil pressure also stays high no mater how hot the motor.
http://www.penngrade1.com/ (http://www.penngrade1.com/)
100% not true. Brad Penn bought a former Kendall refinery. Just the plant, not the formula or the additives, or the dye.
Kendall is still Kendall.
Ray, I just go to the warehouse and grab it and tell them to charge me. I am sure I could find someone near you to get some.
Bob, what you buy in the store, is not the same Kendall you bought before the sale of he refinery. You are correct in saying they bought the refinery, but that also includes the base crude that made Kendall what it was. The oil that comes out of a Kendall bottle now is a light amber colored oil, and is not the same as it used to be.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1099379 (http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1099379)
Agreed, not the same. The change in color is good. The higher the Base oil is refined, the more pure it is. Group II it lighter (almost clear) than the more crude Group I. I have those bottles in my trunk to show for work.
I have access to Kendall as it is one of the brands we distribute. I asked them for the connection between Kendall and Brad Penn because I have read the same as you.
Maybe my info is wrong and the other dudes on the internet are right.
Quote from: WI Bob on April 30, 2015, 07:26:04 PM
Agreed, not the same. The change in color is good. The higher the Base oil is refined, the more pure it is. Group II it lighter (almost clear) than the more crude Group I. I have those bottles in my trunk to show for work.
I have access to Kendall as it is one of the brands we distribute. I asked them for the connection between Kendall and Brad Penn because I have read the same as you.
Maybe my info is wrong and the other dudes on the internet are right.
Ask them for documentation.
Quote from: Ohio HD on April 30, 2015, 05:43:57 PM
Ray, Brad Penn bought out the true Kendall formula years ago. I use it in the 117. It's quiet, as compared to anything else I've ever used. Back when Kendall was still Kendall, it's all I used in everything. Oil pressure also stays high no matter how hot the motor.
+1 Had very good luck with it
Thanks for the efforts Bubbie :up: :up:
Quote from: BUBBIE on April 30, 2015, 10:19:02 AM
Quote from: Mountainman streetbob on July 14, 2014, 06:59:22 PM
I was choking on paying $15+ a quart (including tax and shipping) for quality 20w-60 redline, 60wt amsoil etc etc etc and started looking for high quality oils. I came across LIQUI MOLI being used in motorcycle racing and off road racing and I kept seeing this oil popping up in baja, dakar, rallies, LeMans and european races... I started to investigate this oil and found it being in m-type bmw's and some other european sports cars from the factories...
Then I found it at NAPA! It is $8.52 a quart if purchased 5 liters at a time! Anyone else know of a 100% synthetic 60wt under $9 a quart including tax?
Memphis summers are brutal on twin cams. The quietest twin cams I have been around are running amsoil 60 wt and 20w-60 redline.
No I don't want to start an arguement about 60wt oil, I will just say Eric Buell uses 60wt and oil in their racebikes and SEVERAL endurance twins with major records from multiple manufacturers run 20w-60. To my ears in my bikes the 60wt and 20w-60 oil is definitely quieter when the temps are over 90*...
However even here in Memphis we only have those temps for 3 months... The nighttime temps are down in the 50's-60's for 6 more months and high's in the 80's and 90's. This requires changing the oil every 3 months to meet the MOCO's suggestions.
100% synthetic, SL rated, Euro A3 and B4 ratings, CF rated as well (that's for old dirty diesels!) 8000km(5000mile) change interval,
60wt cushion for a quiet top end and 10wt flow for quick lubrication properties at start up... :teeth:
Has anyone heard of or used this oil? Sure seems like it might be a great year round oil for us Southerners.
I ordered 5 liters of it to try out and send to blackstone come the next 5000 miles service.
All right everyone let me know what I am missing? What have I overlooked? Let me know what I am doing wrong. :potstir:
THE THANKS GOES HERE....:
Brice H Dyal The "Mountainmman"
US Army 89-01 35H/12B US Army AMC....
You Da Man.... IF not for you I would not have a sore A$$ for all the miles and Tough CONDITIONS the Oil went thru....
Many here May use this oil and it shows GREAT from Blackstone... I'll still change my oil and filter at 4,000 miles BUT when the need for extended change (on a long Ride) it will and can be safely done.
Thanks
signed....BUBBIE
Self EDIT: added Information in Bold.... Brice showed above on one of his Post signatures....
Thanks Lonnie, I am just glad we found an affordable, readily available 100% sunthetic that just so happens to also work "OUTSTANDING" !!!
:bike: :bike: :bike:
I use to run Kendall oil in my 302 Boss Mustang back in the early 70's. I really liked it over Valvoline and Quaker State oils back in the day.
I noticed a few years back that Kendall dino oil wasn't on the shelf at any of the auto parts stores around me locally. They had a Kendall syn product...but no more of the green dino oil. :nix:
I was not aware that Brad Penn bought the old Kendall refinery in Pa. To be honest...I've never heard anything bad about Brad Penn oil.
So...I'm assuming your using the Brad Penn oil in your engine now Brian?
Ray
Yes, I use it in the 117 Ray. The Ultra I use Mobile1 synthetic. No argument that synthetic will take a beating from heat with less break down. And I run the Ultra 5,000 to 6,000 mile before an oil change. The 117 I'm changing at 1,500 to 2,000 miles, simply because I run the crap out of it, and that in itself causes fuel and carbon to enter into the oil.
I like many others have just have good luck with the Kendall back in the day. And now with the Brad Penn oil as well. Bill is who let me know about Brad Penn a few years ago, I as well couldn't find the old Kendall GT oils any more. When I was in the automotive parts and service business many years ago, we used to get various testing reports on motor oils. Kendall was always in the top couple of brands. Honestly, Valvoline for one was always in the lower groups.
What's not to like about all brands of oils? If they meet manufacturers recommendations they all work and oil related failures are slim to none. Any of the dino oils will break down quicker than a true Group IV or V full synthetic. What is break down? How do you know an oil is done? Hint ASTM D-4739. Start with a higher TBN.
Bubbie
Have a look here
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjU6Zr6j5wE9dDllUGs2Q3Jwd2g2U0JwdGJPcVlwYmc&usp=sharing#gid=4
I plugged in your numbers and used the oils new TBN 8.0 and get a recommended change interval of 8,100 miles
Of course there are the "my dad taught me" guys out there that will stick to 2k intervals.. all good but the math says otherwise
We've come a long way baby
Quote from: HD Street Performance on May 01, 2015, 08:25:16 PM
Bubbie
Have a look here
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjU6Zr6j5wE9dDllUGs2Q3Jwd2g2U0JwdGJPcVlwYmc&usp=sharing#gid=4
I plugged in your numbers and used the oils new TBN 8.0 and get a recommended change interval of 8,100 miles
Of course there are the "my dad taught me" guys out there that will stick to 2k intervals.. all good but the math says otherwise
We've come a long way baby
WOW! :baby: :bike:
that is impressive Don! :up:
I admit I was one of the guys that changed my oil @ 2K intervals because it was what "my dad taught me". But...back then they didn't even make synthetic oil, it was all petroleum based oils. The oil industry has came a long way in the past 30- 40 years with their technologizes and blends of their newer oils. This L/M oil is testament to that.
My only concern of running this L/M oil that far in a bike would be the oil filter itself. The oil filters are smaller on our bikes and if I was to attempt to go 8,000 plus miles before and oil change...I think I would be changing the oil filter at half way on that mileage to keep piece of mind.
I could be totally wrong in my thinking...and it's possible an oil filter could be working as good as new with 8K on it...but I'm not going to go that far on one on my bike.
Ray
I have sampled quite a few oils in Harleys since 2009. A HD motor is almost as tough on oil as a Ford Powerstroke.
Most 20W50 oils will shear down to a 40wt and even a 30wt in about 2000 miles.
This is why the LM is very impressive on the high milage test.
Most lubes will do the job if you keep the heat down.
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/28822/extending-lubricant-life (http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/28822/extending-lubricant-life)
I would agree the HD is hard on oil but in Bubbies case he has a mild build sealing well and it is tuned close.
I would not say even using this oil everyone could go 8100.
Not much about viscosity loss is mentioned with oil break down except in the Castrol commercials, LOL. Thermal degradation for lubricant base oils usually begins well over 400°F, so it is not generally a significant factor for motor oils. If there is a loss of viscosity you usually see fuel in the sample
What happens is oxidation forms acids and that moves the TBN number down. Spent oil is acidic. Heat moisture and hydrocarbons all play a part in producing the precipitate that moves the TBN down.
This is a great thread. :up: I looked thru many but not all posts to see if this detail might have come up and did not. This is what NAPA sold me under their p/n LM2024. Same stuff only different? Bill
Quote from: HD Street Performance on May 02, 2015, 08:25:23 AM
...Thermal degradation for lubricant base oils usually begins well over 400°F, so it is not generally a significant factor for motor oils...
Don,
I've seen oil temps as high as 360*-380* when a big build has been stuck in traffic for extended periods...ie: Sturgis rally traffic or summer bumper to bumper traffic.
That's read from dipsticks, IR guns, and drain plug senders.
In the above condition what do you figure the oil temp is as it spends time in the rocker boxes before returning to the oil tank to be read. I believe it's got to be at least 20+ degs higher?
IME, synthetics are the answer for these hot-running engines (as well as most performance cars today) CHEAP INSURANCE!
Bob
Bob,
The hottest oil temp is in the crank area just below the pistons. Add 80 degrees to what you see in the pan.
Bob
Quote from: FLTRI on May 02, 2015, 09:58:13 AM
Quote from: HD Street Performance on May 02, 2015, 08:25:23 AM
...Thermal degradation for lubricant base oils usually begins well over 400°F, so it is not generally a significant factor for motor oils...
Don,
I've seen oil temps as high as 360*-380* when a big build has been stuck in traffic for extended periods...ie: Sturgis rally traffic or summer bumper to bumper traffic.
That's read from dipsticks, IR guns, and drain plug senders.
In the above condition what do you figure the oil temp is as it spends time in the rocker boxes before returning to the oil tank to be read. I believe it's got to be at least 20+ degs higher?
IME, synthetics are the answer for these hot-running engines (as well as most performance cars today) CHEAP INSURANCE!
Bob
I agree 100%
There are a whole myriad of myths about synthetic oil. The one truth is synthetics can be run hotter before oxidation occurs.
Have a look at the VI of LiquiMoly 185, very respectable. What not is written is that many higher grade pure synthetics require less polymers added to stabilize the viscosity. A 30-35 point spread is common. In this case 50 point spread and I do not know what amount of polymers was required to achieve that. The flash point of LubriMoly is 464°F also very respectable.
The old way of changing every 2000 miles was due to a couple factors:
Of course, oil has become much, much more efficient.
And secondly, probably the biggest factor, is that manufacturing and metallurgy have advanced significantly, causing much less engine wear and contaminants rolling around inside the engines.
Add much better heat control due to computerized fuel and engine management, and oil can last much longer. Hot, air cooled, modified motors notwithstanding.
Good point. Remember when your old 60's & 70's car motors would be just about used up at 90K.
Back in the 50's/ early sixties, some cars didn't even come with oil filters, it was optional add ons. Changing oil at 2K was prudent to eliminate the suspended crud. Modern oils and filters are 1000% better than they where back then.
As a kid, I worked part time at a garage. A tractor salesman came in every Monday to have his oil changed in his 63 Pontiac convertible. He usually had put 1000miles on the car. He would trade it for a new car at 100,000miles with no oil burning, excellent running engine. Back then, most did well to get 75K out of a typical motor before major work. Times are better??? Buffalo
Times are definitely better! Right now, we can get a V-6 that makes 300 horsepower, gets 30 miles to the gallon, and can sit and idle in traffic all day long. Not to mention, start when it is -30 degrees, or 100 degrees.
Brought this Post #540 forward to show Don and others I Knew MY build is good and the oil report shows that. OTHERS May Not fair as well if they run Metal filled worn-out motors or Not tuned correctly and running Too Hot......
Key for ME: is Good Build and a Good Tune and Good cooling... Good work on any build should give Darn GOOD results using this Oil...
We'll find out as Others post their experiences with USING this oil... :SM:
The First Blackstone report giving my motor a "Longer Use" saying it will go another 2,000 miles (above the 4,000) was because of what you are saying above. Good Oil and Good Build....
I know I have good ring seal and that is a Big Plus. Oil has never needed adding on this 103 build (bored 103" and rings fitted by prodrag1320 Kirby) :SM: and my ccc is top notch also, close within a pound or two of front to back.
So With This as you state, My Good build, Good Oil should last Longer...?... Lubricating the motor with most any Good Oil, The Oil condition Should last longer as I don't have the "negative issues in my build" that some BAD/Worn-out builds do?
So any Good Oil should be able to run longer in mine...
The moly lasting longer in my Build Might Not Last as long in another because of Issues like said above... (metal material found in Brice's)
So Joe Smutt (not to be confused with Joe_lyons) might not get the SAME GREAT results with the 10w60 Moly oil UNLESS his build is also top notch...
MY first Blackstone Oil Report is Located on TOP of Page #11 and second report is post #553 on page #23
signed....BUBBIE
:agree: with bubbie 100% no oil can fix a bad mechanical part however a good oil can prevent mechanical break down of said part/parts. If your motor is going south no oil is going to fix it.
Jmop.
Found this oil on eBay today for $77.77 for 10 liters Just fyi.
Ray m
But contamination due to metals, silicon, or fuel are just indicative of a problem which in most cases the damage is done. The oil life, Tbn, may still be fine not that I am recommending using it. Just saying what is refered to as "break down" may have not occurred.
:agree:
Well after seeing this is cheaper than R.D. 20/60 , I just ordered moly at 45.00 for a jug for the 117,
Just put some in the bike yesterday and rode to work and back and when I came out to the garage this morning the bike had slid over to the other side of the garage from where i I parked it last night good stuff :emoGroan:
sorry just had to do it!
Watching this thread with interest and why not, anytime something is recognized as possibly being superior in the way it protects your engine it should garner some attention, maybe a lot of attention. I have used Amsoil for over 10 years in everything I own that has an engine in it, and have been more than satisfied with how it protects, it works for me. In today's world we now have the ability to test just about everything, even the oil we use in our equipment, to determine how something is working and whether or not one thing is better than the other. If LiquiMoly comes out testing better than other oils, or is the same as the others, means that it is just one more lubricant you can choose from to protect your engine from the stress of day to day operation and against long term wear. I would be interested in the cooling advantages of this oil, and will definitely be willing to give it the test when the time comes, that alone could be significant to anyone running an air/oil cooled engine. :soda:
2600 miles on LiguiMoly 10/60 now. Moab, CO, NM, AZ, NV, UT and bike is still quiet. Interesting thing is I noticed the bike is feeling strong while riding now that I'm back in CO at an elevation of 5200-6400 ft last weekend. I first though the Fuel Moto 98" build is starting to seat the rings and come to life but I checked the mileage since the build and I'm at 6,300 miles. So maybe that's why if feels better and the oil is just oil. Maybe not! I feel the motor should have been broken in thousands of miles ago.
:potstir:
IT "IS" really hard to express the feelings that the BIKE RUNS Stronger here to Members on the forum... Because You get a lot of :turd: :turd: :turd: back from the members Who would not believe it.
Just for that reason I Have been Reluctant to mentioned it... You'll get the DYNO crowd saying It BS and It is in your Head... Then the ones that just don't believe it but never willing to try it...
I TOO have felt the difference in using this oil. I have gone 4,000 miles then 6,111 and now at 1500 miles.
Really a great feel in MY seat of the pants dyno. I too am/WAS skeptical but that feeling is still there. Running good with close to 40,000 miles on my 103 build.
The TWO Blackstone reports from my Trials, show a good build (yes) and I Must have GREAT ring seal to NOT produce the Carbons at that many miles...
HEAT of into the mid 90* Long Stop n Go lights, Still running cooler than the Redline 20/50 I used... (Redline = One of the Best as many of you know) this oil (10w60 Moly) has gone thru Heat and yet Great Reports.
I could care LESS of hearing the NeighSayers on this oil by the Ones who have Not tried it...
The ones who have tried 10w60 Moly seem to Out-number the "HaveNots" and yet the have nots will still write their Skepticism here...
Not perfect for all to use :hyst: but enough of us trying Moly and MOST giving GOOD reports to justify using it... :missed:
I plan to Keep It in my Rides/Jeep included.... The 10w60 Moly has showed me IT IS the Best of the BEST so far...
signed....BUBBIE
ADDED in RED
I think enough members ARE trying this oil and by giving a report of Their results from use of this oil WILL INDUCE many more to try it.
So let the 10w60 LiquiMoly :oil: Praises begin :hyst:
The Liquid Moly certainly appears to be a good oil product for use in our HD's. I'm wondering if anyone has actually compared oil temps after a switch to LM.
I personally can't fathom people considering oil temps of 250 normal, occasionally going to 300 OK!!
Any drop in oil temps after switching is a real benefit IMO - even 10 deg.
My S&S 124 runs at 190deg on 90 deg days running down the road at 80 mph. In 105 deg days, I've seen it hit 200 while running and 230 idling in traffic for 30 minutes.
I really like the reports here showing different bike results. Apparently we could get LM here in Canada for something like $25 quart - not happening here. Mobil I is 16$, Amsoil is $20, and Motech is $22 litre.
Can you say ripoff!
I may have to smuggle some LM into this country Buffalo
I just wish y'all would shut up about it before you drive the price up. :teeth:
Deleted :doh:
Bob,
Are they the same as the original 10w60 I bought? Not Opened? and the Dark blue 5 liter jugs?
IF so, I'd buy them from you... Amazon Prime ships them to me for about that amount...
Just to get You out of a position of Not wanting them..?. :SM: PM me for further details IF above is SO...as I will use them.
I'm in SE Az.
signed....BUBBIE
:SM: cleared the Smily to work :SM:
Buffalo,
You might think to have a small supply Stashed down in the states and Come Down to change it when close to the need to... :oil:
Wouldn't the savings pay for a Cheap over night and the gas ? The ride would be a bonus and Nothing to claim at the crossing back... :potstir:
signed....BUBBIE
I now have 500 mi on my change from M1 20-50 to LM 10-60. Ill leave the technical battle to the others. From what Ive seen on the Blackstone reports, it does the job as intended, The cold/hot PSI is well within range.
Observations:
1- Motor Noise: The various valve train noises that most of us know about is still there... not louder or quieter. However, the sounds made seem to have a sharper, crisper or more pronounced sound to them w/ the LM. This can easily be dismissed by the argument that fresh oil transmits noises easier than oil contaminated oil. The old story that old oil is full of contaminates like carbon, metal particles and has thickened up due to heat evaporation thus "deading" the sound somewhat. Makes sense for me.
2- I do have an odd finding w/ LM that I dont recall having before w/ M1. When I shut the hot motor off, I get a good whiff of what can only be decribed as a "hot oil" smell coming from the air cleaner assy ( Ness BS) . It is something that I noticed on the first ride & the ride today. Its definately coming from the air cleaner area... my nose confirmed that. I dont have any leaks anywhere so it has the be there. ... but not sure why I noticed w/ LM & not with any previous oil.
Thats about it for my observations.... it is motor oil & as long as it does the job I need, its good enough.
Are they the same as the original 10w60 I bought? Not Opened? and the Dark blue 5 liter jugs?
Why dark blue?
Color seems to differ on picture I buy and the actual 5 ltr bottle color I buy... More of a dark Purple 5 ltr jug.
Blue is not the color but I see I called it that... You look on Amazon #2024 5 ltr. and confirm what you see.
IF you have bought look at the color of the jug you have, tell me what you see.
Amazon item number 2024 10w60 Is what I've been buying.
Look for yourself... No debate on Color as it is what it is... :nix:
signed....BUBBIE
Quote from: Buffalo on May 08, 2015, 03:08:28 PM
The Liquid Moly certainly appears to be a good oil product for use in our HD's. I'm wondering if anyone has actually compared oil temps after a switch to LM.
I personally can't fathom people considering oil temps of 250 normal, occasionally going to 300 OK!!
Any drop in oil temps after switching is a real benefit IMO - even 10 deg.
My S&S 124 runs at 190deg on 90 deg days running down the road at 80 mph. In 105 deg days, I've seen it hit 200 while running and 230 idling in traffic for 30 minutes.
I really like the reports here showing different bike results. Apparently we could get LM here in Canada for something like $25 quart - not happening here. Mobil I is 16$, Amsoil is $20, and Motech is $22 litre.
Can you say ripoff!
I may have to smuggle some LM into this country Buffalo
Not happening for me but not only the price . It's not JASO rated as far as I know, so no good in a shared sump. Amsoil is cheaper then Mobil1 in my town and both a steal compared to $25 for LM. Someone mentioned the smell on shutdowns. Only time I've smelt that in both the big twins and the vrod was when I ran Kendall dino oil, never with a group4 oil. Hmmm? None the less it seems like a decent oil but not the be all , end all of oils. Obviously not jaso rated is one area it lacks as a MC oil.
Ron
Quote from: BUBBIE on May 08, 2015, 09:52:02 AM
The TWO Blackstone reports from my Trials, show a good build (yes) and I Must have GREAT ring seal to NOT produce the Carbons at that many miles...
Would you credit the Ester based Redline oil to you having such a great ring seal? From my studies Ester based oils improve ring seal and if that's the case with your 103, why would you risk loosing that?
So far the LM has had great results for you but what if it starts going south on you? If that happens there's no reversing the damage.
Ester based is all my new engine is getting from now on. I've tried the LM several times since I've known about it for several years now from owning a BMW M3, also tried Castrol TWS. I even mentioned the use of these oils before on here but it never exploded as a "GOTTA TRY IT OIL" like it has now.
My engine went south on me last fall from poor ring seal on a 2500 mile ride that I just so happened to have LM in. :nix: I'm not blaming the oil because I've got no proof what caused it but I CAN say, I never had the bike show signs of bad rings until that 2500 mile ride and it was just tuned 10 months prior to that trip and made 136/136 on a 117, rings couldn't have been to awfully bad. :nix:
So for me LM 2024 is out and never going back in my bike, I'm sticking with Motorcycle specific ester based oils. I just can't afford the risk.
Quote from: BUBBIE on May 08, 2015, 09:52:02 AM
:potstir:
IT "IS" really hard to express the feelings that the BIKE RUNS Stronger here to Members on the forum... Because You get a lot of :turd: :turd: :turd: back from the members Who would not believe it.
Just for that reason I Have been Reluctant to mentioned it... You'll get the DYNO crowd saying It BS and It is in your Head... Then the ones that just don't believe it but never willing to try it...
I TOO have felt the difference in using this oil. I have gone 4,000 miles then 6,111 and now at 1500 miles.
Really a great feel in MY seat of the pants dyno. I too am/WAS skeptical but that feeling is still there. Running good with close to 40,000 miles on my 103 build.
The TWO Blackstone reports from my Trials, show a good build (yes) and I Must have GREAT ring seal to NOT produce the Carbons at that many miles...
HEAT of into the mid 90* Long Stop n Go lights, Still running cooler than the Redline 20/50 I used... (Redline = One of the Best as many of you know) this oil (10w60 Moly) has gone thru Heat and yet Great Reports.
I could care LESS of hearing the NeighSayers on this oil by the Ones who have Not tried it...
The ones who have tried 10w60 Moly seem to Out-number the "HaveNots" and yet the have nots will still write their Skepticism here...
Not perfect for all to use :hyst: but enough of us trying Moly and MOST giving GOOD reports to justify using it... :missed:
I plan to Keep It in my Rides/Jeep included.... The 10w60 Moly has showed me IT IS the Best of the BEST so far...
signed....BUBBIE
ADDED in RED
I think enough members ARE trying this oil and by giving a report of Their results from use of this oil WILL INDUCE many more to try it.
So let the 10w60 LiquiMoly :oil: Praises begin :hyst:
Wow!
I didn't know the oil was magical... :hyst:
"Would you credit the Ester based Redline oil to you having such a great ring seal? From my studies Ester based oils improve ring seal and if that's the case with your 103, why would you risk loosing that?"
YES Redline is the Best still in my Book :rtfb: using ONLY 100% Ester Base Stock...
I do hear you... You raise a Valid Point. I someWhat :agree: and thanks for your concern... :SM:
Remember though;
I said it was really TOUGH to Change from what I know as One of the Best (Redline) IF Not the Best oil I have used on many different bikes/builds for myself over the past ? 25 years?.... Many have bought Redline from me over those years when I carried it in my business up in Wa. (bought in Case Lots mostly to have it on hand for me) and some still did/do down here in Az. Several tried to rely on me but I weened them off to buy it themselves ... The few down here now buy their own off the net... using 20/60 Redline... :rose:
I usually keep the ShockProof on hand yet today for the few here in Az. who want it and don't order it on line. (yes, call me mr. easy) :SM:
I would say IF that is the case from using the 2024 Moly; I loose Ring Seal ? So be it... I know where Kirby is and will redo my motor if piston/bore is needed. Close to 40,000 now on that build and working fine. 103,000 miles total now, close to my record of 117,000 on my 00 FXDS (gone for the 09 King)...
I usually do a top end before 50,000 miles needed or not.
signed....BUBBIE
About 12,000 miles with the moly right now... :nix:
I think I'll rebottle it and sell it Called "LiquiMagic" just for Max...
If ring sealing is lost, doubt it has anything to do with any oils of today. It would be from a mechanical source. Large ring gaps or warped barrels. Just bad luck in some form or long term milage wear.
Ron
I'm with you on this one Max.
I think I'll save the money that I was going to be putting into a turbo & just switch to this oil! :potstir:
wow, 614 views,,,this is truly an epic oil thread. :idunno:
HD95,
Not quibbling But look again:
615 Replies
29241 Views
AND No Gun Shot Bodies laying around Nor Throats badly cut... :SM:
10% of the views are probably ME... :unsure:
signed....BUBBIE
:SM: :hyst: :hyst: :hyst:
Quote from: HD95 on May 11, 2015, 04:08:52 PM
wow, 614 views,,,this is truly an epic oil thread. :idunno:
A good thread no doubt, or we wouldn't all be following it! (I've got enough Redline on hand for three more changes. I will continue to follow this to figure out what I will do when that runs out..........probably stick with what has worked well so far.)
Quote from: BUBBIE on May 11, 2015, 07:24:30 PM
HD95,
Not quibbling But look again:
615 Replies
29241 Views
AND No Gun Shot Bodies laying around Nor Throats badly cut... :SM:
10% of the views are probably ME... :unsure:
signed....BUBBIE
My mistake Bubbie, more epic than I thought!!!!
Quote from: 76shuvlinoff on May 08, 2015, 03:25:43 PM
I just wish y'all would shut up about it before you drive the price up. :teeth:
Prolly too late. (forum web bots)
I put Moly in my 117, I will test it out going to rolling thunder in D.C. This weekend with heat and traffic, it does seem quieter this morning on way to work.
Tool man, have you been to Rolling Thunder before? Quite the spectacle.
Hoss,
Others might want to see Link for event:
http://dc.about.com/od/specialevents/a/RollingThunder.htm (http://dc.about.com/od/specialevents/a/RollingThunder.htm)
ALSO had another member here on HTT saying in a PM to me: Liking the oil he put in his motor... Runs Quieter and cooler...
It does well in modified motors and about half the cost of the higher Priced Synthetics.
signed....BUBBIE
Quote from: Hossamania on May 20, 2015, 09:22:41 AM
Tool man, have you been to Rolling Thunder before? Quite the spectacle.
. Many times, a lot of bikes, I'm a retired Navy Senior Chief so ,I usually see someone I served with from time to time there , I belong to the Combat Vets Asociation . And it's one of our sanctioned events.
Just bought 10l of 10-60 LM from Napa and it cost me $107.....
That's more then Amsoil shipped to my door.
But figured it would be worth a shot to try it. Put it in a 2008 street glide 103". 200mile ride tomorrow.
QuoteJust bought 10l of 10-60 LM from Napa and it cost me $107.....
That's more then Amsoil shipped to my door.
Damn it! I knew all this yakin' would drive the price up! :kick:
Amazon is still at 43$ for 5 liters :oil: for me and free shipping with Amazon Prime membership.
Liqui Moly 2024 Synthoil Race Tech GT1 10W-60 Motor Oil - 5 Liter JugMay 9, 2013
by Liqui Moly
$43.01 (3-5 days)
signed....BUBBIE
Here is another example of a seller on Amazon... Less Yet Each 5 liters... If you buy Two= 10 liters for $81.80
copied: Did not copy the Business Name but it is there...
$40.90
& FREE Shipping
+ $0.00 estimated tax
New
We ship "same" Day!!! BY 3:00 PM EST/ 2:00 PM CST/ 1:00 PM PST.
5 Liter
97% positive over the past 12 months. (208 total ratings)
Ships in 1-2 business days.
Ships from CA, United States.
Expedited shipping available.
Domestic shipping rates and return policy.
signed....BUBBIE
There are a lot of misconceptions in this thread. Changing to different brand of oil of the same or nearly the same viscosity cannot quiet any particular engine noise. There isn't that much difference in reputable oil brands. If you change from motor oil to water, now THAT would make a difference in engine noise. Otherwise, it's your imagination.
There seems to be a consensus that if your motor oil appears to stay clean all through its usage in an engine that that is a good thing. Combustion of the fuel mixture is not affected by motor oil, at least not directly. Combustion creates various contaminants which must be picked up in the motor oil circulating throughout the engine. A good motor oil will suspend these contaminants while retaining its lubricating qualities. A motor oil that is doing its job will appear darker as the miles and the contaminants add up. It's NOT a good thing if your motor oil cannot suspend some of the combustion byproducts, because that means they are building up inside your engine and will not be eliminated when you change your oil.
The reason the old Kendall (and Pennzoil and Quaker State) oil was so good is that it came from Pennsylvania oil fields. The Pennsylvania crude was much purer than that from Texas, or anyplace else, as far as I know. While Pennzoil in particular was widely considered to be a low quality oil when I was a kid because of its low price, the reality was it was cheaper because it was able to be refined much quicker and easier given its level of purity as it came out of the ground. Unfortunately, our nation's thirst for oil quickly outstripped the quantity available under Pennsylvania and all the Pennsylvania companies moved to where the oil was. Even so, I have used Kendall dino 20w50 in my old FXRS for about the last 80,000mi or so, of the 182,000 on the bike, and remain happy with its performance. My bike does not burn any noticeable amount of oil when changed at 3000 miles. It's available in Auto Zones or some farm stores where I live.
:pop:
Quote from: 05fatboy95 on May 24, 2015, 01:10:38 AM
Just bought 10l of 10-60 LM from Napa and it cost me $107.....
That's more then Amsoil shipped to my door.
But figured it would be worth a shot to try it. Put it in a 2008 street glide 103". 200mile ride tomorrow.
05fatboy95,
Did you get 10 one liter bottles or 2 @5 liter bottles?
It does sell for more when bought at single One Ltr Bottles.
Try Amazon next time. Get the 5 ltr Jug... :SM:
___________________________________________
Have NO idea of the posting from mp... OR How to answer that?............. Do any of You?
The thread is about 10w60 LiquiMoly Not Dino oil... Not even comparing 10w60Moly to any Dino oil. LiquiMoly is as a Full Synthetic...
signed....BUIBBIE
I bought 2 5l jugs. A
I needed it right when I bought it so I was stuck paying the high price this time.
I rode 150miles yesterday with the LM. The bike sounded more ticky then normal. Enough that I don't know if I want to put it in the softail now.
The street glide always has a slight tick but this was worse. I'm going to get some
More miles on it before I decide about putting it in the softail.
As I see this oil thread sliding down the page, Bubbie revives it....I'm thinking residuals....lol
:missed:
:agree:
Well, that may be true (reviving but NO residuals).
I Did go thru a lot of Riding (13.000 miles) and took my time to send in oil to Blackstone to give YOU Guys a report on the Moly. Maybe I will let it Die...
I have nothing more to add to this thread. Others might though...
signed....BUBBIE
Is this a non-detergent oil ... sounds like it might be low on detergent.
Is their any check for this against maybe redline or Mobil 1 ?
The LM is working well for Bubbie and he is in about the warmest climate we play in.
Nothing wrong with that testing.
Now we need to send Bubbie to OH so Ray can take apart his motor and send us some cool pictures. :potstir: :smile:
Good thread. I don't know why people whine about oil threads. :scratch: They're worse that an old woman! :down: Just skip over it and save yourself the grief and leave those of us who are interested alone. :wtf: What a concept huh? :nix:
Quote from: BUBBIE on May 24, 2015, 03:31:34 AM
Amazon is still at 43$ for 5 liters :oil: for me and free shipping with Amazon Prime membership.
Liqui Moly 2024 Synthoil Race Tech GT1 10W-60 Motor Oil - 5 Liter JugMay 9, 2013
by Liqui Moly
$43.01 (3-5 days)
signed....BUBBIE
Thanks Bubbie....giving it a whirl in my 1996 Evo with 97K on the clock
Rode the Ultra to D.C for Rling Thunder.,This weekend, it was 84 there . I was in So much stop and go traffic all day. Bike ran smooth for a built 117 from Hillside. The Moly was working its ass off, Oil temp gauge didn't go over 200. Of course I had both oil coolers on ( dual woods kit) and wards fan, rode 450 miles
:pop:
"
The reason the old Kendall (and Pennzoil and Quaker State) oil was so good is that it came from Pennsylvania oil fields"
While it's been a lot of years ago, I was always a fan of Pennzoil and thought it was a good oil. However, back in the mid '80s, I was shown an engine apart that had been exclusively lubed by Quaker State and the build up of SLUDGE was unbelievable..........The mechanic and his crew and myself all concluded not to ever consider Quacker State oil after that experience. :potstir:
That's because older Quaker State had more of a wax(paraffin ) base crude oil here in Pa
Quote from: WI Bob on May 25, 2015, 10:10:42 PM
The LM is working well for Bubbie and he is in about the warmest climate we play in.
Nothing wrong with that testing.
Now we need to send Bubbie to OH so Ray can take apart his motor and send us some cool pictures. :potstir: :smile:
it's apart right now Bob...but not from the L/Moly oil as a cause. It's apart because of me making some changes.
What would you like to see pictures of?
The cylinder walls had some ghost marks in them which scared me when I first seen them...but I found out this to be normal. The cross hatching in the cylinders looks like it was just honed yesterday. The cam plates three bronze bushing holes looked like new and the oil pump didn't leave any scoring marks on the back of my new Dan Thayer cam plate. The rocker box's looked pristine inside. And as far as wear goes...my engine showed little to no signs of wear anywhere in it. My FLO oil filter has not had any metal in it and that includes none on it's magnet, and my Dimple magnetic oil drain plug has came out clean every time as well. The Dimple magnetic sump plug didn't have anything on it either.
With all this being said...I'm very happy with the L/M oil and the hottest I seen my engine with it without the aid of fans has been 214*. Here lately in the outside temp's in the upper 70's and lower 80's my oil temp has been running between 190- 200*.
I will say out of my typical 8-up curiosity...I did just buy a 12 qt case of Brad Penn 60SAE oil to try to see if I see any difference. It is a petroleum based Pennsylvania crude "green oil". Some of you's might recognize this oil as being the old Kendall Oil of years past before they were bought out. Brad Penn bought the old Kendall refinery and is using the same Pennsylvania crude that Kendall once did years past.
Ray
:baby:
Ray,
It will be interesting to get your opinion in a comparison of Brad's 60 wt oil to the 10w60 Moly. Many Open minds yet following this thread... :slap:
I'm ALL Ears... :pop:
signed....BUBBIE
For the Canadian folks NAPA handles this oil just got 5l for 76.15 out the door buying it thru a business account. It is in stock here in the warehouse. Bob
BUBBIE...I just want to see just how well this L/M really is performing in my engine. Every since I've ran it I've been very impressed with my cooler engine oil temp's. There is no doubt that my engine has ran it coolest ever with the L/Moly 10W60 oil...and your reports have verified my initial thoughts of it.
For a good comparison...I first wanted to find the best petroleum based oil that I could find...which would give me the best results for a fair comparison. After some long researching of petroleum based oils...I elected to go with the Brad Penn 60W SAE oil hoping it will give me the best comparison between the two because it is the same 60 weight oil and from what I could find the Pennsylvania crude oil is suppose to be the purest crude to come out of the ground.
I'm sure within the first 1,000 miles or so with the Brad Penn 60W oil in my bike...it will tell me the story of what I'm looking for.
I will monitor and keep a close eye on my oil temp's for a good comparison and I will also be listening closely to the engine to see if it sounds any louder or quieter in the valve train area when using the Brad Penn oil.
I let my bike drain the oil for two whole days and I pulled the sump drain plug and let it drain at the same time. I drained my oil cooler and oil lines to it and I also drained my oil filter relocation system lines too...so it should have most of the L/M out of it's oiling system.
The Brad Penn 60W oil is in it ready for when the engine is back together for start up.
Ray
Ray,
You'll have to keep in mind that your cooler weather cranking will be harder with the straight up 60W. If you used it early and late season it will probably draw down hard on the cranking system, Hot summer months should be fine. Sound wise, I predict a quiet engine. Most do when you get into the 60W oils.
kd...temp's are getting warm around here now. They've been in the mid 80's lately.
This is just a test I wanted to do.
I thought about using the Brad Penn 50W SAE oil...but I didn't think that would be a fair comparison to the L/M 10W60.
Ray
:pop:
In my opinion, KD has it right........but your response say pretty warm weather for the near future so I'm thinking you are not gonna see much of a difference. However, if your location gets down into the 40's or lower and you're still game to get out there riding, you will be (damn glad) you have a push button starter and don't have to kick it. :banghead:
Bottom line, after all this lengthy post................ :wtf: Why are ya fu****** around with an alternative to what seems to be a spot on deal for a good lube for our rides. :nix:
Quote from: BUBBIE on May 25, 2015, 06:10:26 AM
Quote from: 05fatboy95 on May 24, 2015, 01:10:38 AM
Just bought 10l of 10-60 LM from Napa and it cost me $107.....
That's more then Amsoil shipped to my door.
But figured it would be worth a shot to try it. Put it in a 2008 street glide 103". 200mile ride tomorrow.
05fatboy95,
Did you get 10 one liter bottles or 2 @5 liter bottles?
It does sell for more when bought at single One Ltr Bottles.
Try Amazon next time. Get the 5 ltr Jug... :SM:
___________________________________________
Have NO idea of the posting from mp... OR How to answer that?............. Do any of You?
The thread is about 10w60 LiquiMoly Not Dino oil... Not even comparing 10w60Moly to any Dino oil. LiquiMoly is as a Full Synthetic...
signed....BUIBBIE
Wisconsin napa blue jug 5l out the door 42.00
Quote from: No Cents on May 27, 2015, 03:47:15 PM
kd...temp's are getting warm around here now. They've been in the mid 80's lately.
This is just a test I wanted to do.
I thought about using the Brad Penn 50W SAE oil...but I didn't think that would be a fair comparison to the L/M 10W60.
Ray
Comparing synthetic 10W60 to Dino straight 60wt is not comparing apples to apples.
Multi-viscosity compared to multi-viscosity.
OR
Straight weight compared to straight weight.
JMO,
Bob
Bob...it's as close as I can get for a comparison between the two oils that I know of.
I know it's not exactly apples to apples...but it will at least let me see what I'm wanting to check. My oil temperatures and oil pressures at hot idle and at full operating temperature conditions.
It's been a very long time since I've used a petroleum based oil and this will help me put the myth to rest in my mind that a petroleum based oil makes for a cooler engine and a quieter valve train than synthetic oils do.
I just need to see and hear the results for myself using my own bike for the experiment.
Ray
Quote from: No Cents on May 27, 2015, 05:19:11 PM
...put the myth to rest in my mind that a petroleum based oil makes for a cooler engine and a quieter valve train than synthetic oils do.
Ray
From over 25 years running and testing Dino vs Synthetics I can safely report since syns are slipperiest than dino's friction is less...meaning oil temps are less.
Quieter comes from viscosity which is why 60wt runs quieter than 30wt.
Multi-viscosity (10w60) oils do not "cushion" clearances quite as well as straight weight (60wt) Dino oils.
Truth is there is really no such thing as a pure straight weight synthetic oil. They are all multi-viscosities...no matter what the label says...per the chemist @ redline oil.
Bob
The coldest start last year on this 10w60 in my 12 EG was 45F. The coldest this year was my first ride to work one March morning at 34F. Both of those starts were on the original battery and I did not notice it bogging .
Mark
Hey all,Picked myself up a jug of this for my 05 RK with no cooler (yet) on from what I read here,but I have an unrelated question, I noticed that this fluid is compliant with wet clutch usage,so could this be used in the primary also? I don't need to change the primary's yet,but if it would work there,might as well use it there also. Opinions please.
Quote from: FLTRI on May 27, 2015, 05:54:00 PM
Quote from: No Cents on May 27, 2015, 05:19:11 PM
...put the myth to rest in my mind that a petroleum based oil makes for a cooler engine and a quieter valve train than synthetic oils do.
Ray
From over 25 years running and testing Dino vs Synthetics I can safely report since syns are slipperiest than dino's friction is less...meaning oil temps are less.
Quieter comes from viscosity which is why 60wt runs quieter than 30wt.
Multi-viscosity (10w60) oils do not "cushion" clearances quite as well as straight weight (60wt) Dino oils.
Truth is there is really no such thing as a pure straight weight synthetic oil. They are all multi-viscosities...no matter what the label says...per the chemist @ redline oil.
Bob
Here's a little experiment for you all to try that will tell you which (synthetic or dino) oil will fight heat and STILL provide lubrication.
Take a plate of steel and put a healthy wet smear of dino oil on it and then heat it in the center from underneath with a torch. The dino oil will spread AWAY from the heated center (which means there will be no or less fresh lubrication at the hot spots). Next, repeat with synthetic oil and the opposite happens. The synthetic will come TOWARD the heated center and not run away from the heat. What does this mean? IMO it means the synthetic will attack the heat (which also means there will be fresh lubrication at the hot spots) and since it has a higher flash / smoke point than dino it will take the heat it absorbs away with it to the sump, tank or cooler.
There's a saying I've heard in the performance engine building crowd .... "if you care about it use synthetic"
Quote from: FLTRI on May 27, 2015, 04:51:26 PM
Quote from: No Cents on May 27, 2015, 03:47:15 PM
kd...temp's are getting warm around here now. They've been in the mid 80's lately.
This is just a test I wanted to do.
I thought about using the Brad Penn 50W SAE oil...but I didn't think that would be a fair comparison to the L/M 10W60.
Ray
Comparing synthetic 10W60 to Dino straight 60wt is not comparing apples to apples.
Multi-viscosity compared to multi-viscosity.
OR
Straight weight compared to straight weight.
JMO,
Bob
:pop:
I tend to agree..........I used straight weight 50-60 Valvoline in my 650 Triumph way back in the 60's before some of you were born or at most kicking the slats out of your cradle............ :banghead:
Multi weight syn oil has it all covered without the negatives of a straight weight oil. Why fight science. :scratch:
There's also a double edged sword when it comes to syn vs straight weight dino.
This is my opinion based on my experience:
Synthetics are slipperier and higher heat resistant than dino. (Measurable hp gain with syn)
Dino straight 60w provides more cushion that syn...until it reaches high temps.
Engine builders like 60wt because the engine makes less noise than with syn. Fewer tech calls asking about noises.
I've used synthetics in my Harleys since 1983 and have racked up over 400,000mi without ever having an issue from a lubrication issue.
With this said...
If you have a noisy engine and want to quiet it down a bit put 60wt dino in it.
Otherwise I see no reason, especially with an air cooled engine, to choose a dino oil over syn.
Bob
There are clear cut tests for oil viscosity. The results listed for most of the majors in their white papers. The oil is heated or chilled and poured, results are kinematic viscosity measured in centistrokes.
The twin cam lifters Delphi derrivitives being the most popular are designed for a 10w/40 oil. Using a straight 60w may cause damage or at least a bit of ticking on a cold start. Worse with a tight tolerance low bleed lifter like Woods. If I was running the spring pressure needed for a all out build I would adjust them .030 off the bottom and make my own spacers. Then no loss of lift then use a lower viscosity oil to get the power advantage plus to shed entrained air faster.
Quote from: BUBBIE on May 25, 2015, 06:10:26 AM
Quote from: 05fatboy95 on May 24, 2015, 01:10:38 AM
Just bought 10l of 10-60 LM from Napa and it cost me $107.....
That's more then Amsoil shipped to my door.
But figured it would be worth a shot to try it. Put it in a 2008 street glide 103". 200mile ride tomorrow.
05fatboy95,
Did you get 10 one liter bottles or 2 @5 liter bottles?
It does sell for more when bought at single One Ltr Bottles.
Try Amazon next time. Get the 5 ltr Jug... :SM:
___________________________________________
Have NO idea of the posting from mp... OR How to answer that?............. Do any of You?
The thread is about 10w60 LiquiMoly Not Dino oil... Not even comparing 10w60Moly to any Dino oil. LiquiMoly is as a Full Synthetic...
signed....BUIBBIE
You might want to try following the thread.... this thread specifically, which is the one I was responding to. To summarize, if your syn oil is not getting dirty, it's not doing its job.
Hey mp...
I Do follow this thread... Where have you been? I HAVE added a good amount to it.
I do disagree with you about the oil Not getting out the unwanted particles Carbon you call dirt...
The oil is not getting Dirty Because there is NO dirt to get into it.
The Blackstone reports I have, show that...
SO I suppose i need to have BLACK oil to satisfy you that LiquiMoly is working. BULL :turd:
I never had Dark or Black oil in my motor builds... (.) Using Redline 20/50 20/60 Dark in time but NOT Black...
Even the moly turned light color of Brown... But very see through...
Didn't you read in the Blackstone report, my 103" motor is NOT showing signs of Wear like some do?
That is the Key NOT over Heating the oil nor having a bunch of Blow-By carbon get into it.
I have had all of my motors apart as I do my own work... NEVER any sign inside but Clean aluminum..... On the oils I have used...
signed....BUBBIE
So if I put this oil in my duramax it will look clean after 5k miles, cool. :scoot: :oops: :potstir:
I know there are several members, Using or Trying this oil.
Wondering What you have to say about it? Your Reporting here will help.
Thanks for your opinions on the use of this product.
I have found 10w/60 LiquiMoly a good oil for my bike and does what I have posted previously.
Is it better than the Redline 20/50 I came from?... I could not make that determination as Redline is and always will be considered Equal to being the Best out there for My HD... Many years of use in different bikes I have owned... Strange how the Moly will run so COOL though....(in comparison to Redline 20/50 I have used)
The 10w60 is a Keeper for me, Less noise, Less Heat is noticed on Extremely HOT day rides out this time of year here in SE Az. never a tic at (cold :hyst:) OR HOT start-up from the lifters... After a few days of the King sitting in garage, Instant starting and No Noise ...
The way I see it, I Will Keep the 10w/60 in the harley... 4 ltr Jeep Sport also has it in and seems to like it... Dirt bike is Next, then the wife's PT car. The Seldom ridden 06 1200 Sportster/Roadster... OH yes, I forgot, I'll be putting it into the Weed Mower also....
IF I had to change to another oil, I Would ONLY go back to Redline...
I will continue the MTL by Redline for my Primary and Never Change from the ShockProof Heavy GEAR OIL in the tranny... I do keep a supply of the ShockProof Heavy for some of my riding friends that are Just to Damn LAZY to order it on their own. :kick:
To the rest of you that use the 10w/60 LiquiMoly? Please Report on YOUR findings.
THANKS...
signed....BUBBIE
I put this moly in my 76 FLH with an S&S 93"er (and in my 12 Ultra) last fall. This "shovel" mill has 30,000 Michigan miles on it. I usually run 20-50 or 50 Dino in this bike and with an oil cooler I seldom saw the tank temp hit 195. I eliminated the oil cooler a couple summers ago and the hottest I've seen the tank is 205. Yesterday after a 60 mile run in 83F weather with this moly the old bike's tank temp was right at 205.
I know the shovel repop likely runs cooler than a TC 103, even the decatted and PV'd 103. I have not checked the temps and currently have no method of doing so in the Twinky. I wish I had tried some of the moly before I pulled the oil cooler off the other bike to note the numbers.
Maybe I could grab the IR gun from work for the TC but exactly where do you point it to take a valid oil temp?
Quote from: mp on May 30, 2015, 10:29:00 AM
Quote from: BUBBIE on May 25, 2015, 06:10:26 AM
Quote from: 05fatboy95 on May 24, 2015, 01:10:38 AM
Just bought 10l of 10-60 LM from Napa and it cost me $107.....
That's more then Amsoil shipped to my door.
But figured it would be worth a shot to try it. Put it in a 2008 street glide 103". 200mile ride tomorrow.
05fatboy95,
Did you get 10 one liter bottles or 2 @5 liter bottles?
It does sell for more when bought at single One Ltr Bottles.
Try Amazon next time. Get the 5 ltr Jug... :SM:
___________________________________________
Have NO idea of the posting from mp... OR How to answer that?............. Do any of You?
The thread is about 10w60 LiquiMoly Not Dino oil... Not even comparing 10w60Moly to any Dino oil. LiquiMoly is as a Full Synthetic...
signed....BUIBBIE
You might want to try following the thread.... this thread specifically, which is the one I was responding to. To summarize, if your syn oil is not getting dirty, it's not doing its job.
MP
REALLY!
:slap:
To all the "dirty oil" guys out there who think clean engine oil is a bad thing, I would like you to ponder this.
If your ring seals are "almost" perfect, Your tune is "almost" perfect, your combustion chamber is "almost" perfect, your valve seals are "almost" perfect.... Your engine oil temps are kept reasonable then what would make your engine oil dirty?
In other words, you have a tight, well tuned, properly used, well designed motor..... Why the hell would your oil be dirty?
Do you really think a synthetic "cleans" up less than a dino?
Oil indicates motor condition and use, not vice versa.
I just put LiquiMoly in my 2010 Ultra. Now my dog is pregnant and my wife left me, (or is it the other way around? I suppose I should check!) Now what do I do?!! On the other hand I am having problems with my Ultra, I can't keep the front tire on the ground. with all this extra HP from the Liquimoly the bike is almost uncontrollable! :potstir: :hyst:
Sorry Bubbie, I couldn't help myself!
:oops: :oops: :oops:
:hyst: :hyst: :hyst:
IF your wife is Pregnant and Your Dog ran away, You Must'a DRANK the Oil... What the Hell did you Put into the Bike :kick:
Didn't you READ the Fine Print on the 10w/60 Moly ????????
Man Another one Bites the Dust..... PoorUB is RIGHT..... :baby: it's on its way...........
signed....BUBBIE
I have approx. 12K miles running molly and not sure I'll stay with it. I am seeing\finding foaming out the breather. the liquid coming out the catch can is thick and frothy. Not sure I want that in the rocker boxes\breathers... Other than that it appears to be a good oil, nothing crazy and no voodoo involved, just an ok oil.
Quote from: 76shuvlinoff on June 14, 2015, 05:15:50 AM
I put this moly in my 76 FLH with an S&S 93"er (and in my 12 Ultra) last fall. This "shovel" mill has 30,000 Michigan miles on it. I usually run 20-50 or 50 Dino in this bike and with an oil cooler I seldom saw the tank temp hit 195. I eliminated the oil cooler a couple summers ago and the hottest I've seen the tank is 205. Yesterday after a 60 mile run in 83F weather with this moly the old bike's tank temp was right at 205.
I know the shovel repop likely runs cooler than a TC 103, even the decatted and PV'd 103. I have not checked the temps and currently have no method of doing so in the Twinky. I wish I had tried some of the moly before I pulled the oil cooler off the other bike to note the numbers.
Maybe I could grab the IR gun from work for the TC but exactly where do you point it to take a valid oil temp?
Multiple points, bottom of pan,oil filter,bottom of crank case, rocker box, candy thermometer in the oil tank? If you don't run a thermometer dip stick?
:pop:
Re: Foaming concerns
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/1765/foaming-in-oil (http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/1765/foaming-in-oil)
Quote from: moscooter on June 15, 2015, 09:07:50 AM
:pop:
Jaycee.........
Review the below link on foaming..........A couple of thoughts..........short hop rides and condensation still in there and not cooked off yet and/or another source..........oil level too high can cause foaming in some situations. :nix:
Re: Foaming concerns
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/1765/foaming-in-oil (http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/1765/foaming-in-oil)
Quote from: Jaycee1964 on June 15, 2015, 03:12:39 AM
I have approx. 12K miles running molly and not sure I'll stay with it. I am seeing\finding foaming out the breather. the liquid coming out the catch can is thick and frothy. Not sure I want that in the rocker boxes\breathers... Other than that it appears to be a good oil, nothing crazy and no voodoo involved, just an ok oil.
Quote from: moscooter on June 15, 2015, 09:07:50 AM
:pop:
Re: Foaming concerns
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/1765/foaming-in-oil (http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/1765/foaming-in-oil)
Good article! :up:
I changed to it about a month ago. With all of the rain we've been having I don't have too many miles on it yet. I would say my motor is a little quieter now and on my last fill my mileage was up a small amount.
I can't comment on the heat as I don't have a gauge and I installed Wards fans at the same time as my oil change.
Luckily none of our dogs are pregnant (3 are male so that would be a good trick) and my wife hasn't left.
Quote from: BUBBIE on June 14, 2015, 01:29:58 AM
I know there are several members, Using or Trying this oil.
Wondering What you have to say about it? Your Reporting here will help.
Thanks for your opinions on the use of this product.
I have found 10w/60 LiquiMoly a good oil for my bike and does what I have posted previously.
Is it better than the Redline 20/50 I came from?... I could not make that determination as Redline is and always will be considered Equal to being the Best out there for My HD... Many years of use in different bikes I have owned... Strange how the Moly will run so COOL though....(in comparison to Redline 20/50 I have used)
The 10w60 is a Keeper for me, Less noise, Less Heat is noticed on Extremely HOT day rides out this time of year here in SE Az. never a tic at (cold :hyst:) OR HOT start-up from the lifters... After a few days of the King sitting in garage, Instant starting and No Noise ...
The way I see it, I Will Keep the 10w/60 in the harley... 4 ltr Jeep Sport also has it in and seems to like it... Dirt bike is Next, then the wife's PT car. The Seldom ridden 06 1200 Sportster/Roadster... OH yes, I forgot, I'll be putting it into the Weed Mower also....
IF I had to change to another oil, I Would ONLY go back to Redline...
I will continue the MTL by Redline for my Primary and Never Change from the ShockProof Heavy GEAR OIL in the tranny... I do keep a supply of the ShockProof Heavy for some of my riding friends that are Just to Damn LAZY to order it on their own. :kick:
To the rest of you that use the 10w/60 LiquiMoly? Please Report on YOUR findings.
THANKS...
signed....BUBBIE
Quote from: mike5511 on June 15, 2015, 09:26:23 AM
Quote from: moscooter on June 15, 2015, 09:07:50 AM
:pop:
Re: Foaming concerns
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/1765/foaming-in-oil (http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/1765/foaming-in-oil)
Good article! :up:
:up:That's an amazing site for all kinds of mechanical things. Been there many times.
Ron
Quote from: mike5511 on June 15, 2015, 09:26:23 AM
Quote from: moscooter on June 15, 2015, 09:07:50 AM
:pop:
Re: Foaming concerns
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/1765/foaming-in-oil (http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/1765/foaming-in-oil)
Good article! :up:
No short runs here at all. I drive a minimum of 35 miles each way daily for work and average 90 miles a day during the work week and who knows how many on a weekend. I do approx. 15K miles a year. The shortest run I go on is typically 8 miles to a store. No condensation here.
I've got a oil temp gauge, sending unit in the oil pan in place of the "do not remove" plug. Also an HD oil cooler, and Ward's fans and oil cooler thermostat. Depending on outside temperatures, it can take more than 35 miles before my temp gauge shows normal operating temperature. How hot do they have to get to "boil off" impurities? I should know, but don't remember at the moment........
2014 SG Stg 1 & after 1000 miles on LM10-60: No noticeable oil useage, no noticeable change in oil color, motor runs fine, small amount of engine noises (classic HD ticking/clicking) but no worse than with M1 20-50, no temp gauge so no idea what temp the oil is, did 200 mi this weekend w/ temps in the mid-high 90s, oil PSI w/ hot motor running 70-80 mph was 33-34, idle PSI was 15-18 when hot... Basically it does the job as needed & everything, as far as I can tell, is fine.
I have finally been able to go for a ride with the liquimoly in the bike and there is a noticeable noise differance (quieter) my oil temps never broke 232. It was pretty hot out and I fiugred the temps would be higher especially since I do not have my K&P oil filter on right now. The bike ran smooth as glass and I was hard on her running thru the hill country banging gears. It was only a 250 mile ride but I was running hard and for just a little test on the oil I will say I like it last time I went on this ride I had the amsoil in and did not ride as hard as today but I was seeing temps in the 250s . More to come
Quote from: Blowby on April 05, 2015, 02:55:52 PM
Changed this morning to LiquiMoly 10-60w since I'm heading to Laughlin week after next and I assume the temps are going to be a little warmer than CO. I purchased the oil 2 month ago but wanted to get at least 2K miles out of the HD 20-50w before the swap.
After I started the bike pressure came up and noise went down. I have 3,607 miles since my FM 98" build with TW555 cams and LevelB heads so I assumed some of the engine noise was a by product of the build. I really love the way is runs so smooth and the bike feels fiesty'r now, more responsive and did I say smooth. Checked the head temp with a digital gun when I got off after my 70 mile trip and the hottest spot was the rear exhaust port area on the throttle side of the motor. It was 285 and dropping about a degree a second with the Wards fan running.
I think I need to keep this oil stocked up for the Ironhead as well. Happy user...
Follow up:
Changed oil at 3,020 miles and have about 250 miles on this batch. Bike runs great and smooth as silk. No noise or clicking from the top end that I heard before with 20-50 over the cool part of the riding season. Plugs look fine without any oil deposits and when I checked the oil level before this change I could not see a difference, since the initial fill or after the trip above, on the dip stick.
Summer riding will be a good test on oil usage and noise. Still happy with the magic elixir Bubbie 👍
I was due oil changes on both my '03 Heritage (w/big bore kit, 95ci & SE203cams) and my '12 Limited (stage II w/ SE255 cams). I bought the LiquiMoly 10w-60 in a couple 5L jugs from Amazon and used in both bikes. I had Syn3 in the limited and Mobil 1 V-twin in the Heritage
I have a PowerVision but don't leave it attached to either bike. I have no temp data to share.
I have noticed that my oil pressure seems a little higher at all temps on the Limited. No gauge on the Heritage.
I rode the Limited the other day and the temps were about 94 degrees. I hit some twisties with a couple long straight aways and was riding rather aggressively. When I slowed back in normal traffic at a stop light, the top end was quieter than usual. With Syn3 and pushed in the heat and then idled, the top end noise used to increase.
Sorry nothing more scientific/measurable to add to the debate........
Quote from: hattitude on June 16, 2015, 07:53:06 AM
I was due oil changes on both my '03 Heritage (w/big bore kit, 95ci & SE203cams) and my '12 Limited (stage II w/ SE255 cams). I bought the LiquiMoly 10w-60 in a couple 5L jugs from Amazon and used in both bikes. I had Syn3 in the limited and Mobil 1 V-twin in the Heritage
I have a PowerVision but don't leave it attached to either bike. I have no temp data to share.
I have noticed that my oil pressure seems a little higher at all temps on the Limited. No gauge on the Heritage.
I rode the Limited the other day and the temps were about 94 degrees. I hit some twisties with a couple long straight aways and was riding rather aggressively. When I slowed back in normal traffic at a stop light, the top end was quieter than usual. With Syn3 and pushed in the heat and then idled, the top end noise used to increase.
Sorry nothing more scientific/measurable to add to the debate........
Thanks for the hands-on riding experience.
While not scientific it is an honest rider evaluation.
Never been a fan of the semi-syn3 especially as they originally claimed to be great for all three holes. :wtf:
I find straight 60wt dino to hide the clearances (hot ticking) best. Not the best lube but the best cushion.
Hole-specific oils are best for these tractor engines and trannys IMO.
Bob
Instead of bloviating on the oil, someone needs to start a thread on the magical fairy-dust gas that combusts in such a way that it leaves nothing behind to dirty the oil... you get 100% burn, no carbon or soot, no pollution.......
It's a MIRACLE!!!
:SM:
You sure get to be a pain... :potstir: Joking or Not, I along with others here, Usually POST differences AFTER trying this oil.
If you would only Try it THEN you'd be given all the Room from me to BITCH... I have done a lot of work here AND Only Keep hearing you negative comments... Same One over about DIRT...
I'm sure Others who try this oil will give their opinion IF dirty or Not... If you have any Other Negative comments Get them In and Over With Please... HAPPY to see you Start Your OWN thread... :emoGroan:
signed....BUBBIE
:hyst:
I had a 1960 Corvair for my very first car. For those of you who don't have a clue, it had an (air cooled) engine.
I changed the oil when required, and It got dirty quite quickly and most often had "foam" when I checked the oil or removed the oil filler to look.
Never had a problem with it. While (Little old ladies) that had Corvairs (usually automatic transmission)...........had all kinds of problems with burnt exhaust valves, etc.
I know this cause at the time, I worked at a Chevrolet dealership................. :gob:
Having been a Redline Oil user, I (like Bubba) am going to go with this oil for the engine while maintaining my usage of Redline products for the Primary and Transmission.......
I'd love to try it Bubbie, but at $100.00 for a 5 litre jug it ain't gonna happen.My 124" will have to suffer with Amsoil.
Quote from: BUBBIE on July 17, 2014, 08:36:26 AM
I Too will try it.
I ordered from Amazon 5 ltr. 10w/60for 46$ plus tax.
Being a PRIME member, I get Free two day shipping.
Nice for out-back Az.
Not too good IF I were in Oz... :hyst:
I DO use Redline, just ordered it by the case... 20/50 is okay $$ wise but the 20/60 is a gouge.$$$$..
I decided to use this new oil in my air-cooled welder. The Redline has worked so well for years in my bikes, It IS hard to change this late in the game.
signed....BUBBIE
Damn..........pretty significant price difference. :nix:
I see what you're saying moscooter, thats amazon.com. By the time I see the money exchange,taxes, shipping etc. I'm back up at $100.00
Ya need to look around. :nix:
I just picked up 10 5 liter jugs at $77.00 for 2 w/ free shipping on flea bay. Delivered in a couple days. That's $7.69 per liter for a full synthetic oil. FYI a liter is almost exactly 1 US quart and half the price of other "good" full syn oils. I may buy more before it starts to go up with all of the recent interest in it.
kd, your math lost me...10 5 liter jugs@ $77.00, you mean 10 1 liter @77.00 don't you? And free shipping to Canada? I better get shopping!!
No his math is correct you get 2(two) 5 liter jugs for $77.00us and he bought 5 orders :scratch:
Ray m
A liter is 0.9463529 to a quart.
Let me try this again. I bought 10 5 liter jugs. The price was $76.99 US per 2 5 liter jugs. That comes to $7.69 US per liter. Shipping is free in the US and I live fairly close to the border. I had them all shipped at once to a US address and went to pick them up (along with a bunch of other stuff).
Unfortunately the free shipping is only to a US address (I see you are from Canada too). In fact one place I went to didn't really want to sell to me because my shipping address was set on my home location. I simply changed my shipping address to the US one (just a freight receiver) and paid a $5.00 fee there for them to receive it (2 1/2 cases). You may know someone you can ship too also.
Add on the currency exchange and in Canadian money it was $96.32 Canadian per 2 5 liter jugs or $9.63 per liter plus HST at the Canadian border crossing. The seller doesn't charge any US taxes because they are shipped out of their state to another. The Amsoil I am using now is $19.00 + at CTC. This LiquiMoly Race Tech is 1/2 the price. I'll be reporting on whether or not I like it. I plan to do some Blackstone reports like Bubbie if I can also. There are 3 oil changes coming this week.
Quote from: rbabos on June 16, 2015, 05:28:03 PM
A liter is 0.9463529 to a quart.
:hyst: :hyst: That's kinda like the old "percentage allowed for cling" amount on the old Harley oil tins. I'll bet you remember those eh? Pretty darn close.
Thank you for clearing that up for me,kd. That's a hell of a deal by anyone's measure.
Can you guys go focus on ceramic wheel bearings instead of driving the price of this synthetic up? :hyst:
Quote from: BUBBIE on June 16, 2015, 03:38:00 PM
:SM:
You sure get to be a pain... :potstir: Joking or Not, I along with others here, Usually POST differences AFTER trying this oil.
If you would only Try it THEN you'd be given all the Room from me to BITCH... I have done a lot of work here AND Only Keep hearing you negative comments... Same One over about DIRT...
I'm sure Others who try this oil will give their opinion IF dirty or Not... If you have any Other Negative comments Get them In and Over With Please... HAPPY to see you Start Your OWN thread... :emoGroan:
signed....BUBBIE
Bubbie, not everyone can be forward thinking and open minded. LOL :baby:
Quote from: 76shuvlinoff on June 17, 2015, 03:02:39 AM
Can you guys go focus on ceramic wheel bearings instead of driving the price of this synthetic up? :hyst:
:hyst: :hyst: :hyst:
Well again not scientific but I ran M1 for about 100,000 miles then switched to Valvoline 20w50 for my break in then back to M1. Now having 3000 miles on the LM it has quieted down the valvetrain. Don't have a temp gauge but I have been riding in 100+* temps. This motor is still cooler than my 107. No other noticeable differences. Thanks for all those who have giving their opinion after giving this stuff a try. I figure it is right up there with all the other synthetics. And it is a medium Carmel color. Mostly water draining out of the catch can.
I'm pretty sure a liter is more than a quart.
Quote from: rbabos on June 16, 2015, 05:28:03 PM
A liter is 0.9463529 to a quart.
:up: or 1 liter to 1.05669 quarts
quart or liter still cheaper than amsoil or redline
Quote from: Max Headflow on June 21, 2015, 07:25:02 AM
Quote from: kd on June 18, 2015, 07:19:17 AM
Quote from: rbabos on June 16, 2015, 05:28:03 PM
A liter is 0.9463529 to a quart.
:up: or 1 quart to 1.05669 liters
:scratch:
http://www.onlineconversion.com/volume.htm (http://www.onlineconversion.com/volume.htm)
Quote from: kd on June 21, 2015, 07:39:13 AM
Quote from: Max Headflow on June 21, 2015, 07:25:02 AM
Quote from: kd on June 18, 2015, 07:19:17 AM
Quote from: rbabos on June 16, 2015, 05:28:03 PM
A liter is 0.9463529 to a quart.
:up: or 1 quart to 1.05669 liters
:scratch:
http://www.onlineconversion.com/volume.htm (http://www.onlineconversion.com/volume.htm)
1 quart [US, liquid] = 0.946 352 946 liter
Add or is it
1 quart [UK] = 1.136 522 5 liter
:hyst: :doh: All fixed now :embarrassed:. I'll bet the OL was talking when I was typing, (or, I just didn't read it after I typed it). :wink:
I got the old 124 top end back together yesterday. I put some Brad Penn 60 weight in it to see if I'd like it and to see if I would notice any difference. You know...curiosity killed the cat kind of thing...and I had to find out for myself about this Brad Penn oil.
Well after about a 50 mile ride bringing the bike up to full temperature I did see a little higher oil temperature than I normally seen with the L/M 10w60. But to be honest I didn't notice any difference in valve train noise with the Brad Penn dino oil.
So...it's back to the L/M for me on the next oil change.
Ray
Ray,
If you are looking to quiet down the valve train try some straight 60wt dino. Oil temps will be higher and there is not the same heat protection as with syns but it will run a bit quieter.
Bob
Quote from: No Cents on June 21, 2015, 08:48:33 AM
I got the old 124 top end back together yesterday. I put some Brad Penn 60 weight in it to see if I'd like it and to see if I would notice any difference. You know...curiosity killed the cat kind of thing...and I had to find out for myself about this Brad Penn oil.
Well after about a 50 mile ride bringing the bike up to full temperature I did see a little higher oil temperature than I normally seen with the L/M 10w60. But to be honest I didn't notice any difference in valve train noise with the Brad Penn dino oil.
So...it's back to the L/M for me on the next oil change.
Ray
In another thread you said the tune is off . How can you determine if it's the oil or the tune that raised the temp. Seems like if this oil gets any more magical it will start growing hair and cause massive boners. :hyst:
Ron
Ron...I don't think the tune is drastically off. I loaded a new map into it that Jim sent me today and I took it for another ride. It's 100% better at idle now. That is where the issue mostly was. It's not in perfect tune...but very ride able now. It's probably good enough for most people as it sits right now...but I'm just spoiled with excellent tunes in the past from Jim and I know he can get more out of the bike and dial it in perfectly.
I went for another ride after loading the new map in. The oil temperatures had the same results as the 1st ride this morning.
I like the idea of having the added protection of synthetic oil in my engine for the hotter summer months. I haven't ran a dino oil for many years and I wanted to try this Brad Penn oil. I'm not bad mouthing it in any way. It just seems to run my oil temperatures about 5- 10* hotter than the synthetic did. Which I think is probably normal to see with the switch.
My bike had been running around 190- 195* with the syn. The Brad Penn had the gauge at 205*'s on both rides. Still a very acceptable temperature in my book.
Now about that hairy boner that you have on your mind. :hyst:
Ray
:missed:
I've been out two days... Yesterday, Az. up 191 to Safford, over to Mule Creek, Silver City..... HOT HOT HOT.. Checked at gas fill... Hottest I could get with my IR was 194*...
Todays trip back and ran Hard on Hwy 10 freeway 82-87 MPH most the way, against some head wind... Oil temp checked out at 197*... IR checker used and tried several positions to get the hottest out of the Oil in the oil tank... 197* IS the hottest I have Equaled a few times...
I have 4300 miles on this 3rd change and still looks Light in color No Black or Dark Brown... Must be Crappy oil :hyst:
signed....BUBBIE
:nix:
Bubbie,
I'm convinced by your experience to give it a try next time I need an oil change. Have been a Redline Oil user for last few years and will continue with those products for my trans......H.D. Shockproof, and the primary with their version for that.
Engine oil, I will switch for the cost savings for starters. :pop:
Just traded for this FatBoy and it had detailed records of maintenance..NICE! :up: He had used Harley Syn 3 (in all three holes) every 3K and it is due. Just read that the HD oil is made by Citgo, not sure if it is true but that is a no go for me..Hugo don't get a dime from me :down:
Been watching this thread since the beginning, so I ordered 3 5liter jugs for 40.90 and free shipping. A company on amazon but I found a phone number and called directly. :soda:
Been a brutal summer so far in Daytona and not even July yet.
Gary
Quote from: NikonDoofus on June 24, 2015, 03:07:47 AM
Just traded for this FatBoy and it had detailed records of maintenance..NICE! :up: He had used Harley Syn 3 (in all three holes) every 3K and it is due. Just read that the HD oil is made by Citgo, not sure if it is true but that is a no go for me..Hugo don't get a dime from me :down:
Been watching this thread since the beginning, so I ordered 3 5liter jugs for 40.90 and free shipping. A company on amazon but I found a phone number and called directly. :soda:
Been a brutal summer so far in Daytona and not even July yet.
Gary
Well, Hugo is dead so no need to worry about him getting your $$$.. :bike:
Harley BUYS their oil to their Specks by BID (LOWEST)...
Many other GOOD oils out there to use... Redline being one of them... The LiquiMoly works great in my rides...
Blackstone oil reports by me on page 11 and page 23.... LOOK there... :SM:
3 HOLES deserves the correct oil usage... Not one lube for all three holes... :turd:
Primary approved oil (wet clutch approved) I use MTL or V-Twin primary oil by redline... MTL is the same product just a different label...
GEAR OIL for the tranny... (gears CHEW up MOTOR oil molecules) Redline ShockProof Heavy used by MANY here on the forum and racing bikes...
signed....BUBBIE
Corrected Type-O's.......... and added a :SM:
Thanks Bubbie, that is what started me looking in the first place, never been a fan of motor oil with gears.
Had some leather work done out by J&P so I picked up the Redline gear yesterday. So just waiting on ground shipping.
Great news about Hugo. I wasn't aware he kicked it :slap:
Well, After a full season and combined 23K miles I am leaving Moly in my Bagger but it's coming out of my Softail. For some reason the foaming in my softail 124" is excessive. My catch can froths...
I wish it was not the case as I generally feel this is a great oil. Perhaps the extra vibs is too much for it.. dunno really.
I'm going to give this a shot: https://www.motul.com/ca/en-US/products/oils-lubricants/7100-4t-10w60--3 (https://www.motul.com/ca/en-US/products/oils-lubricants/7100-4t-10w60--3)
I do believe your Problem is NOT enough oil heat to Boil the Moisture from the oil... It collects and shows up as the froth...Too bad it does that. You made a correct choice on Not using it. The oil temp. in my 103" 09 bike is taken at the oil hole in the tank and it probably is Hotter in the engine to Boil off the Moisture. The recovery system are Dry in mine. :embarrassed: I still vent into the motor,,,(LaZy A$$) :embarrassed:...
Wonder what temps your oil gets to at the oil tank in the Softy... ? Probably under 185-190, That is Not hot enough and Will Not remove moisture on the short runs..
Maybe a #200 mile days Might.
My sportster is like that:
It will not see any LiquiMoly (changed my mind to use it as it runs too cool in that bike motor too)...
Even here in Hot Az. It seldom sees over 160- 170* :nix: No cooler and with SE High Performance parts in it. :nix: Just too damn Cool like your Softy... :nix: :nix: :nix:
I need a Long ride on the 06 1200 R to keep out the moisture.... You can see Oil froth floating in the oil tank... Not much but enough I may syphon it out after it sits to cool... :banghead:
signed....BUBBIE
I run 35+ miles all Highway to and from work daily + additional riding. My temps run 200*-220*. I avoid short runs. No moisture here. I run the same oil and ride my Bagger the same style and no issues with foaming.
One Difference is the Softail 124" has a Dan Thayer 3 stage and perhaps it is sucking air, causing cavitation?
My Bagger has the stock pump in it.
Alternatively, the froth could be from a very-non-sumping engine's oil pump slurping a lot of air and pushing that to the tank.
Undoubtedly, froth will read lower temps than what it is with an IR gun.
Hope it doesn't get picked up and sent through the filter. Might airlock it. Hahaha
Quote from: HD95 on June 16, 2015, 03:50:27 PM
I'd love to try it Bubbie, but at $100.00 for a 5 litre jug it ain't gonna happen.My 124" will have to suffer with Amsoil.
You can get 5 liter jug from NAPA for $72 wholesale thru a company name. That's cheaper than the redline here. Bob
All I had to do was give them a business card from work and pay cash to get the discount.
I'm a firm believer that if you find a good lubricant for your application it is absolutely fruitless to go searching for other, cheaper lubes.
We tend to find the money to add chrome baubles and doodads to our bikes as we feel needed yet balk when we need to come up with the extra money for favorite lubricants.
We need to feel we got the cheapest price For a given product.
It is only after failure we find shopping for the cheapest products are not necessarily the best long term solutions. (ie: foaming issues)
If saving $20 on a service is that important I suggest leaving the money sucking Harleys and get to one of the imports that provide everything you want and need without spending any additional bucks.
JMO,
Bob
QuoteWe need to feel we got the cheapest price For a given product.
That's a man thing, applies to every aspect of our lives. From the guys I work with to my own in-laws it doesn't matter what I buy or sell the first thing out of someone's mouth is not "Looks good." or "Nice job." it's usually "How much?" Someone can always do it or get it twice as fast for 1/2 as much.
My canned responses.
"Too much."
"A lot."
"More than I wanted to pay."
"Nunyafkinbizness."
Mark
I pay for overpriced Amsoil for an overpriced V rod. Just seems like the right thing to do and the oil does a fine job. Besides LM won't work well in the v rod.
Ron
Quote from: rbabos on June 29, 2015, 12:05:20 PM
...Besides LM won't work well in the v rod.
Ron
Why not? What makes LM any different than any other synthetic out there?
What makes the (your) Vrods different than any other 4 stroke engine out there?
:nix: :scratch: :idunno:
Bob
Quote from: FLTRI on June 29, 2015, 12:09:54 PM
Quote from: rbabos on June 29, 2015, 12:05:20 PM
...Besides LM won't work well in the v rod.
Ron
Why not? What makes LM any different than any other synthetic out there?
What makes the (your) Vrods different than any other 4 stroke engine out there?
:nix: :scratch: :idunno:
Bob
ACEA A3 ; ACEA B4 ; API CF ; API SL
You figure out what's missing in this particular oil that all the posts are about.
Ron
:nix: :scratch:
Awww... :missed:
I believe he answered that statement back on post 609. It has no JSCO-M certification.
After following this string for a long time and getting close to time to change, I just ordered a 4L container of LiquiMoly Race 10W60 specifically for bikes at: http://www.oilchangekits.com/lubricants/liqui-moly-racing-4t-10w-60-4-liter.html (http://www.oilchangekits.com/lubricants/liqui-moly-racing-4t-10w-60-4-liter.html) , the data sheet says its: API SL ∙ JASO MA2. I don't know if it's different from the LM2024 but the data sheets for both are identical with the exception of the Specs and approvals.
That sheet is here: https://pim.liqui-moly.de/pidoc/P000260/1525-Motorbike4TSynth10W-60StreetRace-11.0-en.pdf (https://pim.liqui-moly.de/pidoc/P000260/1525-Motorbike4TSynth10W-60StreetRace-11.0-en.pdf)
Looking forward to trying it, pretty hot in NC lately.
Quote from: TRUBlue on July 01, 2015, 05:49:04 PM
After following this string for a long time and getting close to time to change, I just ordered a 4L container of LiquiMoly Race 10W60 specifically for bikes at: http://www.oilchangekits.com/lubricants/liqui-moly-racing-4t-10w-60-4-liter.html (http://www.oilchangekits.com/lubricants/liqui-moly-racing-4t-10w-60-4-liter.html) , the data sheet says its: API SL ∙ JASO MA2. I don't know if it's different from the LM2024 but the data sheets for both are identical with the exception of the Specs and approvals.
That sheet is here: https://pim.liqui-moly.de/pidoc/P000260/1525-Motorbike4TSynth10W-60StreetRace-11.0-en.pdf (https://pim.liqui-moly.de/pidoc/P000260/1525-Motorbike4TSynth10W-60StreetRace-11.0-en.pdf)
Looking forward to trying it, pretty hot in NC lately.
If they were both the same, there would be no need for a motorcycle blend of 10-60 to cover JASO.
The oil in these posts is not Jaso rated. In a big twin, that doesn't matter, just about every other bike it does. Both are good oils.
Ron
So another vote for RedLine? JASO MA2 certified and good for all motorcycles!
Why tempt fate? 100% race tested and works with everything.
:potstir:
Bob
Quote from: FLTRI on July 02, 2015, 09:12:37 AM
So another vote for RedLine? JASO MA2 certified and good for all motorcycles!
Why tempt fate? 100% race tested and works with everything.
:potstir:
Bob
:doh: Now you did it Bob.... :oil:
I'm with Bob, I've been using Redline in my bike for 12 years now and see no reason to change.
That doesn't mean there's anything wrong with using the LM.
Mike
I've always used redline up until recently when I switched to Harley synthetic for convenience sake.
Since I switched over from redline:
I shredded my drive belt
Wiped the teeth off my rear drive pulley
Destroyed both rear wheel bearings and spacer
mutilated my primary chain tensioner
smashed my finger with the hammer
and have a headache....
Should I switch back to redline?
:nix: :scratch: :doh:
Quote from: wavlovr1 on July 03, 2015, 08:21:42 PM
I've always used redline up until recently when I switched to Harley synthetic for convenience sake.
Since I switched over from redline:
I shredded my drive belt
Wiped the teeth off my rear drive pulley
Destroyed both rear wheel bearings and spacer
mutilated my primary chain tensioner
smashed my finger with the hammer
and have a headache....
Should I switch back to redline?
:nix: :scratch: :doh:
I think you have a good case for it don't you? :crash:
Bob
Quote from: FLTRI on July 03, 2015, 08:34:48 PM
Quote from: wavlovr1 on July 03, 2015, 08:21:42 PM
I've always used redline up until recently when I switched to Harley synthetic for convenience sake.
Since I switched over from redline:
I shredded my drive belt
Wiped the teeth off my rear drive pulley
Destroyed both rear wheel bearings and spacer
mutilated my primary chain tensioner
smashed my finger with the hammer
and have a headache....
Should I switch back to redline?
:nix: :scratch: :doh:
I think you have a good case for it don't you? :crash:
Bob
I'm just trying to figure out if I am superstitious or not. Sure seems like I should get a case of it just to cover the bases...
Quote from: wavlovr1 on July 03, 2015, 08:21:42 PM
I've always used redline up until recently when I switched to Harley synthetic for convenience sake.
Since I switched over from redline:
I shredded my drive belt
Wiped the teeth off my rear drive pulley
Destroyed both rear wheel bearings and spacer
mutilated my primary chain tensioner
smashed my finger with the hammer
and have a headache....
Should I switch back to redline?
:nix: :scratch: :doh:
I wouldn't worry about switching by to XYZ brand, but you might have a case for writing a country song.
Just changed over to LiquiMoly yesterday on the new 2015 Roadglide Rushmore bike. Leaving in a few weeks for a month long tour of the country. Will report my findings. Just test it pretty well. Shockproof in the tranny.
After 1000 miles with Motul 10W60 I like it. No more foaming out the catch can\Breathers. Motor runs just as cool as with Moly and almost a quiet (No quite).
Just another option for yall to try. I wish I could stay with Moly as my Bagger loves it but the softie just aint happy with it.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002LGMARM?refRID=EAW1ZR2GFY53QJVB0FN8&ref_=pd_bia_yo_t_3 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002LGMARM?refRID=EAW1ZR2GFY53QJVB0FN8&ref_=pd_bia_yo_t_3)
Quote from: Jaycee1964 on July 13, 2015, 07:17:29 PM
I wish I could stay with Moly as my Bagger loves it but the softie just aint happy with it.
Would you elaborate as to why your softie (I assume you mean motorcycle lol) ain't happy with it?
Thanks,
Bob
Have a 2011 cvo in my shop today, adding cooling, adding kp engineering oil filter setup, thermostat eliminator, pv tune is 1/2 done, added one of those bent elbow intakes, 2/1 dd exhaust...
Damn bike has 5200 miles on the oil change... Liquid moly.
His oil temp was over 320* for at least 4 hours yesterday. Bike did hit 280* idling in the garage on a 95* in less than 25 minutes... Was running WAYYYYYY too lean..... Hopefully when I get done with the tune it won't take too long on a dyno to perfect it.
Oil is Brown, Not black, Doesn't smell awful...
I am out of blackstone sample containers :emoGroan:
I am out of blackstone sample containers :emoGroan:
Maybe save some in a clean oil jug or sealer jar until you get some. It'd be interesting to see how it survived the abuse. I have to pick some up too :banghead:
Quote from: Mountainman streetbob on July 24, 2014, 07:11:52 AM
Here's some of the highlights compared to Mobile 1 VTwin..
Mobil 1 V-Twin / LIQUI MOLI
Density, g/ml @ 15.6°C (ASTM D4052) 0.87 / 0.855
Flash Point, °C (ASTM D93), 214 / 240
Pour Point,°C (ASTM D97) 42 / -30
Kinematic Viscosity, cSt @ 40°C (ASTM D445) 72.3 / 155
Kinematic Viscosity, cSt @ 100°C (ASTM D445) 20.8 / 23.8
Viscosity Index 142 / 185
It has a higher flash point, greater Viscosity Index and better viscosity at 100.. I'm surprised that the pour numbers are lower.
I'm a bit surprised by the viscosity @40c. With M1 being a 20w and L-M being a 10w I'd expect both to be pretty close at 40c, and the L-M to be even lower than the M1, not what's been shown. I wonder if there's a transcription error here?
Thinking from the Blackstone Numbers on Pages 11 and 23 on this Thread, It is just a Plain Good Synthetic to use... Go Look...
As you point out....Lots of Difference in comparing all the M1 numbers...
signed....BUBBIE
Quote from: FLTRI on July 02, 2015, 09:12:37 AM
So another vote for RedLine? JASO MA2 certified and good for all motorcycles!
Why tempt fate? 100% race tested and works with everything.
:potstir:
Bob
Thats right BOB! at over DOUBLE the price! AND Half the availability!
I do love Redline 60wt in my buddy's shovel! My stree bob loved it in the summer too!
Brice,
Not sure about the increased availability of LM, besides being distributed by Tucker Rocky, Red Line is in most of the Cycle Gear retail outlets in the country and is available direct any time you like.
As far as cost Redline is not double the price not even 1.5 times but filling all the oil coolers you have decorating your bike may make the savings worthwhile for you. -Rick
Quote from: 04 SE DEUCE on August 01, 2015, 03:00:34 PM
Brice,
Not sure about the increased availability of LM, besides being distributed by Tucker Rocky, Red Line is in most of the Cycle Gear retail outlets in the country and is available direct any time you like.
As far as cost Redline is not double the price not even 1.5 times but filling all the oil coolers you have decorating your bike may make the savings worthwhile for you. -Rick
Availability? I can get LM at ANY Napa in the country within 24 hours IF it is not in stock... Try that with Redline. LOL
LM happens to be in TONS of Napa's on the shelf... (from any of the 5 napa's within 8 miles)
As far as cost, Including tax LM costs me $7.94 a quart for the last 5 liter jugs. ($84.00 for 10 liters/10.57 quarts) Yes I used the online coupon...
How close is your nearest Cycle Gear? The one in Memphis doesn't stock Redline. The last time I ordered there it took 4 days to get it.
Redline delivered to my door or bought at the Honda shop (13 miles away) is $15/quart PLUS tax or shipping...
So actually LM is LESS than half the cost of redline whether I am in Memphis or Birmingham... Or Idaho Falls, Id or Gresham, Or or Denver,Co... LOL
The cost and lack of availability of Redline in Memphis is why I was looking for a new oil when I found Liquid Moly.
Only 2 or 3 dealers in Memphis regularly carried Redline and it was costing over $15 a quart PLUS Tax after I drove 45 minutes to get it, AND find out they were a quart short for an oil change!
Don't get me wrong, Redline 20w/60 has it's place, I just don't see any benefit to it for me where I am located.
Redline is just More $, More time, More hassle...
AND
The oil reports I have say it lasts to 5k miles of commuting with ZERO problems.... AND lots of life left.
Better Mousetrap for me.
A man has to have supplies. I HATE running out to get oil or what ever. Plus I got friends, I need a lotta beer, and oil. :hyst:
[attach=0]
[attach=1]
I have dreams where my garage is this well stocked!
:up: :SM:
Quote from: Mountainman streetbob on August 01, 2015, 03:24:45 PM
Quote from: 04 SE DEUCE on August 01, 2015, 03:00:34 PM
Brice,
Not sure about the increased availability of LM, besides being distributed by Tucker Rocky, Red Line is in most of the Cycle Gear retail outlets in the country and is available direct any time you like.
As far as cost Redline is not double the price not even 1.5 times but filling all the oil coolers you have decorating your bike may make the savings worthwhile for you. -Rick
Availability? I can get LM at ANY Napa in the country within 24 hours IF it is not in stock... Try that with Redline. LOL
LM happens to be in TONS of Napa's on the shelf... (from any of the 5 napa's within 8 miles)
A day or two from Amazon too, plus free shipping.
Quote from: Mountainman streetbob on August 01, 2015, 06:09:38 PM
I have dreams where my garage is this well stocked!
:up: :SM:
You'll have more friends if you do... :SM:
Today is the hottest day I have riddin this year and also the first time in a couple years my wife has gone with me now yesterday after I was done with all my customer bikes I had a chance to work on mine, I installed my new works shocks(love them way better than the progressive 944) and I also installed a MSP filter relocation. Today was already over 100 and with my liquimoly still in all I did was install the MSP with the same filter that has been of for the past 2k my oil temps never broke 216 according to my Dakota digital oil temp guage. So that's down 10-16 degrees we rode for 142 miles with only two less than 10 minute stops. I like the liquimoly oil
Quote from: Ohio HD on August 02, 2015, 09:21:30 AM
Quote from: Mountainman streetbob on August 01, 2015, 06:09:38 PM
I have dreams where my garage is this well stocked!
:up: :SM:
You'll have more friends if you do... :SM:
Don't forget the orings for the drain plugs.
Yeah, o-rings, I guess we got some o-rings. :smiled:
[attach=0]
You do have o-rings! My buds are always s impressed when I pull them out. "You have extra o-rings?"
"Well, yeah!"
Quote from: Ohio HD on August 01, 2015, 06:04:20 PM
A man has to have supplies. I HATE running out to get oil or what ever. Plus I got friends, I need a lotta beer, and oil. :hyst:
[attach=0]
[attach=1]
That's a little spooky. I have a very similar shelf, stocked about the same, even down to the Kendall, with an old Crosman pump AND an old buzz box welder beside it... only difference is mine's a Montgomery Wards. (I said it was old)
Parallel universe?
"Better Mousetrap for me."
Well maybe cheaper and more readily available. Not sure it's better. :idunno:
Bob
Quote from: Ancient on August 02, 2015, 11:58:04 AM
Quote from: Ohio HD on August 01, 2015, 06:04:20 PM
A man has to have supplies. I HATE running out to get oil or what ever. Plus I got friends, I need a lotta beer, and oil. :hyst:
[attach=0]
[attach=1]
That's a little spooky. I have a very similar shelf, stocked about the same, even down to the Kendall, with an old Crosman pump AND an old buzz box welder beside it... only difference is mine's a Montgomery Wards. (I said it was old)
Parallel universe?
:hyst: I don't know which one of us should be more afraid! :dgust:
Maybe this has been covered in the previous pages, but is there a part number for the motorcycle version of this oil?
Which Amazon vendor is recommended?
Thanks, I'm doing a 10k and want to give it a try.
Quote from: Paniolo on August 16, 2015, 02:27:43 PM
Maybe this has been covered in the previous pages, but is there a part number for the motorcycle version of this oil?
Which Amazon vendor is recommended?
Thanks, I'm doing a 10k and want to give it a try.
No motorcycle version, but this is it,
http://www.amazon.com/Liqui-Moly-2024-Synthoil-10W-60/dp/B00CPL918E (http://www.amazon.com/Liqui-Moly-2024-Synthoil-10W-60/dp/B00CPL918E)
Changed the oil in the CVO yesterday to the LiquiMoly.
Oil temps are usually about 215-220*
Checked it a few times today and it was 210 each time.
Top end noise at that 2200-2800 RPM range is down significantly.
I'm hearing what I think is the rocker shafts rotating. I can fix that!
So far I like this oil.
When Gonenorth and I were out in Yellowstone a few weeks ago we got stuck in traffic a few times. Once I was doing some tuning and recorded engine temps of 380F. When we got back Gonenorth said engine sounded noisy and his Syn3 felt gooey like it was cooked so he changed it. I did the same highly scientific method of wiping oil off the dipstick and rubbing it between my fingers and the Liqui-moly felt normal to me, so I am still running it.
Quote from: PoorUB on August 16, 2015, 03:45:04 PM
Quote from: Paniolo on August 16, 2015, 02:27:43 PM
Maybe this has been covered in the previous pages, but is there a part number for the motorcycle version of this oil?
Which Amazon vendor is recommended?
Thanks, I'm doing a 10k and want to give it a try.
No motorcycle version, but this is it,
http://www.amazon.com/Liqui-Moly-2024-Synthoil-10W-60/dp/B00CPL918E (http://www.amazon.com/Liqui-Moly-2024-Synthoil-10W-60/dp/B00CPL918E)
They do make a Bike version. Have not had luck finding though
http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/produktdb.nsf/id/en_1525.html?OpenDocument&land=GB&voilalang=e&voiladb=web.nsf (http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/produktdb.nsf/id/en_1525.html?OpenDocument&land=GB&voilalang=e&voiladb=web.nsf)
I stand corrected.
http://www.bonusstore.us/p/Liqui-Moly-1525-10w-60-High-Performance-Racing-Synth-4t-Motor-Oil-1-Liter-Bottle-95009530.html (http://www.bonusstore.us/p/Liqui-Moly-1525-10w-60-High-Performance-Racing-Synth-4t-Motor-Oil-1-Liter-Bottle-95009530.html)
$$$$$$$
$24 a liter?? :wtf: I think I will run the regular automotive stuff for $8.50 a liter.
I just calculated and that is expensive. I guess the non motorcycle Lquidmoly is it.
Quote from: PoorUB on August 16, 2015, 08:05:05 PM
$24 a liter?? :wtf: I think I will run the regular automotive stuff for $8.50 a liter.
:agree: 100% but they do make it if and idiot wants it.
Such GREAT Reports on my Blackstone Reports... pages 11 and 23 :up:
This 10w60 Meets and Exceeds ALL requirements for our TC Motors... (gas/Diesel)
Mention the word Harley/Motorcycle in the same sentence, and you always seem to add $$$$$$$$$ to the cost of any oil.
10w60 LiquiMoly is Plenty good and Under $8.40 a Ltr... So Far So Good... :SM:
signed....BUBBIE
I jumped on the bandwagon and have about 3K miles on LM 10/60, ran all over the Black Hills, Wyoming and Montana in 85-100 degree temps with my 120R street glide with the wife on back. Ran hour after hour in 90+ temps at 80-85 MPH and it ran great.
Quieter than my previous Mobil 1 15/50
Checked oil level and it is almost just where it was at when first installed.
So far I like it!
Been a hot summer and this last week has been 100 plus most of the week. 126" high compression motor, high lift, no oil cooler, no fan-stop and go city traffic, and although I have been cooking (especially at intersections waiting for a light to change), my motor has not. Still also quieter, as with other oils when it got super hot, I could hear my Valvetrain racket when the oil broke down...Not with this stuff-motor just hums along. :up:
Quote from: pwmorris on August 17, 2015, 11:52:05 AM
Been a hot summer and this last week has been 100 plus most of the week. 126" high compression motor, high lift, no oil cooler, no fan-stop and go city traffic, and although I have been cooking (especially at intersections waiting for a light to change), my motor has not. Still also quieter, as with other oils when it got super hot, I could hear my Valvetrain racket when the oil broke down...Not with this stuff-motor just hums along. :up:
Hey Paul, thanks for the post.
How does this oil compare in noise to the RedLine 20-60wt?
Bob
I love this stuff, I have run a couple thousand miles on it.
My S&S HC 124" runs dead quiet in really really hot weather & with a oil bud OC my oil has never gone over 210*
~John
Quote from: FLTRI on August 17, 2015, 12:12:30 PM
Quote from: pwmorris on August 17, 2015, 11:52:05 AM
Been a hot summer and this last week has been 100 plus most of the week. 126" high compression motor, high lift, no oil cooler, no fan-stop and go city traffic, and although I have been cooking (especially at intersections waiting for a light to change), my motor has not. Still also quieter, as with other oils when it got super hot, I could hear my Valvetrain racket when the oil broke down...Not with this stuff-motor just hums along. :up:
Hey Paul, thanks for the post.
How does this oil compare in noise to the RedLine 20-60wt?
Bob
Hey Bob,
Can't say, as I have run Red Line Shockproof for the trans, and Red Line 10 wt in race bike, never ran their 20-60 in street bike.
The thermal viscosity breakdown, or lack of now, as heat temps ambient and in the motor rose over time riding is the most noticeable. In other synthetics and Dino that I used in the past, this was when you started to hear the Valvetrain really singing, motor temps up, and pressure down. Hot rodding and high rpm bursts only made it worse. Forget about track abuse...I live in the city so traffic lights and stop and go traffic is something I deal with daily. Not talking about EZ cruzin along a country road.
This oil sucks!,,, sucks for the other brands of oils that is,
been running it in the 111 since July last year when this thread started, a good oil for a good price.
Just placed my 3rd order for 10 liters. $76.10 USD, free shipping.
Mark
Edit: that's $76.20... Oops
Who from 76 ?
We have used this oil for a few years now in our race cars, i also use it in in my 88 Lowrider, my new 110 CVO Street Glide and use it in my track day bike Buell 1125R. Never had a problem i use the bikes all year round winter and summer.
Temps range from 6deg C winter to 45deg C summer. As a service center we can use any oil on the market but for my own bikes and race car i use LM 10-60 race tech GT1
it is the best..
Quote from: krwson on August 17, 2015, 05:14:50 PM
Who from 76 ?
I know some guys hate eBay but that's where I get it.
Mark
I've been running the moly 1060 for about 3K miles now. Seems to be good oil , but did nothing to quiet my motor down.
Quote from: 76shuvlinoff on August 18, 2015, 01:36:14 PM
Quote from: krwson on August 17, 2015, 05:14:50 PM
Who from 76 ?
I know some guys hate eBay but that's where I get it.
Mark
whats the sellers name? all i find is bwm kits with oil filters
Amazon has it and good deals there...
I'm a prime Amazon member and get free shipping to my door step Usually two days out.
I see it went UP 4 bucks or so...
Here on Amazon is a seller selling LESS than Amazon Prime with free shipping @ $40.95.
I'm ordering two right now before IT goes up... Noting a Lot of usage and 5 stars on reports...
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00CPL918E (http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00CPL918E)
signed....BUBBIE
Ordered at 40.95 and Delivered between August 21-26
Ships from CA, United States.
Not as fast shipping as amazon Prime BUT less $$ and I don't need it right now... Just increasing my Stock.
I'll report IF any problems with this New to Me Outfit. :up:
Quote from: slothy on August 19, 2015, 10:30:25 AM
Quote from: 76shuvlinoff on August 18, 2015, 01:36:14 PM
Quote from: krwson on August 17, 2015, 05:14:50 PM
Who from 76 ?
I know some guys hate eBay but that's where I get it.
Mark
whats the sellers name? all i find is bwm kits with oil filters
try looking under bmaautoparts on ebay
thats where i got mine last time.
$79.90US free shipping
add thats for 10 liters
ray m
Ordered mine on Monday from the Amazon site BUBBIE posted. Got it today, going to have it done with a 10K on Monday. Been running Mobile 1 V-Twin for the last few oil changes. Have also run Syn3 and another synthetic brand called Manhattan.
Quote from: slothy on August 19, 2015, 10:30:25 AM
Quote from: 76shuvlinoff on August 18, 2015, 01:36:14 PM
Quote from: krwson on August 17, 2015, 05:14:50 PM
Who from 76 ?
I know some guys hate eBay but that's where I get it.
Mark
whats the sellers name? all i find is bwm kits with oil filters
here,
http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-Liters-Liqui-Moly-10W-60-Fully-Synthetic-RaceTech-Motor-Oil-/361217861273?hash=item541a432699&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-Liters-Liqui-Moly-10W-60-Fully-Synthetic-RaceTech-Motor-Oil-/361217861273?hash=item541a432699&vxp=mtr)
Quote from: BUBBIE on August 19, 2015, 10:43:54 AM
Amazon has it and good deals there...
I'm a prime Amazon member and get free shipping to my door step Usually two days out.
I see it went UP 4 bucks or so...
Here on Amazon is a seller selling LESS than Amazon Prime with free shipping @ $40.95.
I'm ordering two right now before IT goes up... Noting a Lot of usage and 5 stars on reports...
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00CPL918E (http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00CPL918E)
signed....BUBBIE
Ordered at 40.95 and Delivered between August 21-26
Ships from CA, United States.
Not as fast shipping as amazon Prime BUT less $$ and I don't need it right now... Just increasing my Stock.
I'll report IF any problems with this New to Me Outfit. :up:
Just for Information.... and a Update like I promised... Another Good company to do business with... :up:
I Got the Two 5 ltrs today 8/21/15.... The correct oil and the price was good like said above. (40.95 each)
Seems Amazon Prime got a little Greedy and went up a bit.
The seller I got it from out of Calif. did GOOD.. Boxed Properly and early arrival... :SM:
Mark Cost on Ebay is a little better :up: enough to buy a couple sodas or a few Beers... :SM:
signed....BUBBIE
Have had LQ in for roughly 1000 miles now,so far so good. I picked mine up at a local NAPA store for less than 50.00 for 5L
Changed to this oil last night. I've already noticed a improvement in the heat level in the bike.
I wonder if this stuff would work in the Primary and Tranny...
Ok,I changed to Liqui-Moly right before my one month trip starting a week before Sturgis. New Roadglide with Andrews 57H cam and D&D Fatcats. I put just under 8000 miles on the bike in a month and a day. In southeast California between Lee Vining and Barstow I rode thru all the smoke from the fires and the outside temps for almost 200 miles was 107 degree and up. It got to 112 about 100 miles from Barstow and stayed between 110 and 112. Stopped for gas and rehydration in Barstow. Checked the oil and it still looked clear with just a little color after over 6000 miles on the change and was still at the 1/2 low mark where I filled it to. After leaving Barstow there was a cold front and the temps dropped to 101 for about 50 miles then suddenly shot back up to 112 and stayed between that and 110 until I got to Needles and had had enough. Motor and lifters never changed their sound and just seemed quite as can be. To make a long story short, I got home last Sunday with a total of just under 8000 miles on the trip and the oil still looks like I almost just put it in and it's still at the 1/2 qt. low mark. I was so impressed with how it looked in Needles, I got online and ordered more for the change when I got home. It was here waiting on me from Amazon prime. I'm sold on this oil Bubbie and so are several of my friends that have seen what it did for me. Thanks Bubbie for doing all the research on this oil and saving me a lot of money on oil changes with a great oil alternative! Plus 1
Smarty, did you save some for a Blackstone test at that mileage?
Quote from: kd on August 26, 2015, 06:54:10 AM
Smarty, did you save some for a Blackstone test at that mileage?
Changing the oil tomorrow. I'll be doing that. I need the address from Bubbie so I can send it in though.
............ BLACKSTONE.........
laboratories
260-744-2380 ..... I talked with Luke to ask questions...
416 E. Pettit Ave.
Fort Wayne, IN 46806
Tell them:
Harley TC, size motor, Modified or stock. Year of build and Miles on the build
then 8,000 miles on the 10w60 LiquiMoly full synthetic oil.
I always mention HTT as Many WILL read the report. (butters them up) :SM:
Ask for the report to ALSO to be Emailed to you...Quicker to post it here on the forum.
Coyote has been really good in helping me post it. Cleaning out my address and name... I usually send him the Jpeg or copy, Then he post it. :SM:
Thanks for your Kind Words...
I'm sure you won't be surprised if they say You could have used oil a little longer... it should be a good report.
Signed....BUBBIE
added : phone number and name...
Quote from: BUBBIE on August 26, 2015, 04:39:52 PM
............ BLACKSTONE.........
laboratories
260-744-2380 ..... I talked with Luke to ask questions...
416 E. Pettit Ave.
Fort Wayne, IN 46806
Tell them:
Harley TC, size motor, Modified or stock. Year of build and Miles on the build
then 8,000 miles on the 10w60 LiquiMoly full synthetic oil.
I always mention HTT as Many WILL read the report. (butters them up) :SM:
Ask for the report to ALSO to be Emailed to you...Quicker to post it here on the forum.
Coyote has been really good in helping me post it. Cleaning out my address and name... I usually send him the Jpeg or copy, Then he post it. :SM:
Thanks for your Kind Words...
I'm sure you won't be surprised if they say You could have used oil a little longer... it should be a good report.
Signed....BUBBIE
added : phone number and name...
Thanks Bubbie, I'll change it today and get it out. What did you send it in and how much?
You might want to Phone that number to ask questions?...
IF you can Clean Drain into A pint jar about 1/4 to 1/2 full (more than needed ) then wait for them to send you a kit...
No cost for the Kit Bottle they send out;
contains : the plastic outer square plastic Container you add postage to and send it in, paperwork and a small plastic bottle that fits into special flannel type wrap and a little plastic zip-lock bag. all goes into their pre addressed Black square container to send.
It would be best to call an get their Kit sent out.
The Idea I have about the oil drain on your bike. (save uncontaminated oil) While it is draining into the pan. Catching about 1/4 to 1/2 pint into your CLEAN pint jar until you get the kit. (saving the sample)
Then transfer into their ? (about 4 oz bottle) follow instructions and mail it to them. Just postage and 25$ but do the 35$ one to get All the needed information WE'd like to see. :SM: WHY 10$ more ?... from their information:
Would you like a TBN (additional cost of $10.00)? (A TBN measures the amount of active additive present in the oil.)
I do mine One at a Time either a credit card or I usually just make out a personal check. wrapping it into the outer bottle with their form I have filled out.
The questionnaire is simple to do (second link)
Information here:
http://www.blackstone-labs.com/free-test-kits.php (http://www.blackstone-labs.com/free-test-kits.php)
ALSO the paperwork you send with the oil sample... YES, IT Will all fit into their black square shipping bottle. :hyst:
http://www.blackstone-labs.com/Data/OilSlips/Motorcycle%20slip.pdf (http://www.blackstone-labs.com/Data/OilSlips/Motorcycle%20slip.pdf)
signed....BUBBIE
added: Link ...
Ok thanks Bubbie, just talked to Blackstone and they are sending me a test kit.
Quote from: Smarty on August 27, 2015, 11:43:23 AM
Ok thanks Bubbie, just talked to Blackstone and they are sending me a test kit.
wow good stuff. looking forward to the results.
I have had this in my Heritage 107 for the last few thousand miles. I like it...
Hope this stuff sits on the shelf ok without changing composition. Can't see that happening with synthoil so what the heck. Ordered 3 jugs off Amazon and still haven't finished reading this forum thread. Saw various articles where Ray was using it and then this thread came up. I've been using 20-50w Amsoil for awhile, this will be next. Will use the heavier oil that Baker recommends for the primary since I'm not remembering the name of it. Time to get ready for the summer of 2016!!!! :wtf:
Well, I sent off the sample of the Liquid-Moly 10w60 yesterday. They promptly sent me the test kits which was nice. Should be at their lab on Tuesday. Crossing my fingers that the 8000 mile oil comes back awesome!
8000 miles! WOW I thought I was pushing it at 5800 and 6400 miles.
Brice, :nix:
Remember the 6,111 miles on my :oil: and Blackstone told me to try 1500 miles more... Plenty of anti wear protection in there yet and clean enough... :SM:
So 8,000 not that much more "IF" a good report come back, it would not Shock me...
signed....BUBBIE
I am running a batch thru right now. I don't know what to make of it yet. My results are completely opposite of what others are saying.
I am sure it is good oil. That said, my engine temps measured using the sensor reading during data logging ( I log almost constantly!) shows a increase of temps and my oil temp gauge also shows a increase as well. Perplexing to say the least. I wonder if it is too "tacky". It does seem to have an assembly lube quality to it. As for noise reduction, nope. Sounds about the same. New oil always make it sound better till you get some miles on it.
Quote from: Tsani on September 07, 2015, 09:09:53 PM
I am running a batch thru right now. I don't know what to make of it yet. My results are completely opposite of what others are saying.
I am sure it is good oil. That said, my engine temps measured using the sensor reading during data logging ( I log almost constantly!) shows a increase of temps and my oil temp gauge also shows a increase as well. Perplexing to say the least. I wonder if it is too "tacky". It does seem to have an assembly lube quality to it. As for noise reduction, nope. Sounds about the same. New oil always make it sound better till you get some miles on it.
What oil are you comparing to? Prolly missed it in the few preceding posts! :crook:
Bob
Bob, 20w-60 Redline. Completely flushed the system too. One nice thing about the weather we have been having here is same temps, day after day after day after....
A bit unusual for us. But has allowed for relative comparative testing.
Quote from: Tsani on September 08, 2015, 01:13:34 PM
Bob, 20w-60 Redline. Completely flushed the system too. One nice thing about the weather we have been having here is same temps, day after day after day after....
How did you flush the system? Or did you simply drain the oil from the tank, case and lines?
Quote from: Tsani on September 07, 2015, 09:09:53 PM
I am running a batch thru right now. I don't know what to make of it yet. My results are completely opposite of what others are saying.
I am sure it is good oil. That said, my engine temps measured using the sensor reading during data logging ( I log almost constantly!) shows a increase of temps and my oil temp gauge also shows a increase as well. Perplexing to say the least. I wonder if it is too "tacky". It does seem to have an assembly lube quality to it. As for noise reduction, nope. Sounds about the same. New oil always make it sound better till you get some miles on it.
This^^^
Put the LM in over the holiday weekend, first ride today. This morning, 75 ambient, stop & go traffic, my temps were about 20 degrees above normal... cooling fans on constantly. That has never happened before. Heat was noticeable on the right side, again.... never before. Oil pressure was maybe a pound higher at idle and at speed. Engine more noisy if anything. That swill is coming out first chance I get. Anyone in the SF Bay area want my leftovers from a 5l jug let me know.
Best oil so far.... straight 40w Valvoline dino oil. I never should have strayed.
Quote from: pwmorris on September 09, 2015, 08:34:22 AM
How did you flush the system? Or did you simply drain the oil from the tank, case and lines?
Emptied the oil bag. Poured two liters in. Disconnected the return line from the tank and connected it to a drain hose. Ran it till clean fresh oil was seen and then a bit more for good measure. Between the flush and topping off, total of 4.5 liters used.
Edit: For the record, this is in a softail model that is well broken in.
Waiting to see what the outcome of the guys who had problems using this oil. I had to backtrack a comment I made for oil recommendations plus I have 3 jugs of this waiting for me. So many pages of good reviews and then these two incidents happens.
Keep us advised.
Quote from: Bikerscum on September 09, 2015, 05:51:33 PM
Quote from: Tsani on September 07, 2015, 09:09:53 PM
I am running a batch thru right now. I don't know what to make of it yet. My results are completely opposite of what others are saying.
I am sure it is good oil. That said, my engine temps measured using the sensor reading during data logging ( I log almost constantly!) shows a increase of temps and my oil temp gauge also shows a increase as well. Perplexing to say the least. I wonder if it is too "tacky". It does seem to have an assembly lube quality to it. As for noise reduction, nope. Sounds about the same. New oil always make it sound better till you get some miles on it.
This^^^
Put the LM in over the holiday weekend, first ride today. This morning, 75 ambient, stop & go traffic, my temps were about 20 degrees above normal... cooling fans on constantly. That has never happened before. Heat was noticeable on the right side, again.... never before. Oil pressure was maybe a pound higher at idle and at speed. Engine more noisy if anything. That swill is coming out first chance I get. Anyone in the SF Bay area want my leftovers from a 5l jug let me know.
Best oil so far.... straight 40w Valvoline dino oil. I never should have strayed.
Just a thought, do you think you might have gotten a bad filter? That just doesn't seem even possible for any oil to go up that much in temp in that mild of weather unless there was another problem. This oil has been run by BMW in a multitude of vehicles. I would think something would have showed up before now if the oil was the problem. I'm not disputing the outcome, I'm just saying there would seem to be another contributing problem.
Quote from: Smarty on September 10, 2015, 08:35:52 AM
Quote from: Bikerscum on September 09, 2015, 05:51:33 PM
Quote from: Tsani on September 07, 2015, 09:09:53 PM
I am running a batch thru right now. I don't know what to make of it yet. My results are completely opposite of what others are saying.
I am sure it is good oil. That said, my engine temps measured using the sensor reading during data logging ( I log almost constantly!) shows a increase of temps and my oil temp gauge also shows a increase as well. Perplexing to say the least. I wonder if it is too "tacky". It does seem to have an assembly lube quality to it. As for noise reduction, nope. Sounds about the same. New oil always make it sound better till you get some miles on it.
This^^^
Put the LM in over the holiday weekend, first ride today. This morning, 75 ambient, stop & go traffic, my temps were about 20 degrees above normal... cooling fans on constantly. That has never happened before. Heat was noticeable on the right side, again.... never before. Oil pressure was maybe a pound higher at idle and at speed. Engine more noisy if anything. That swill is coming out first chance I get. Anyone in the SF Bay area want my leftovers from a 5l jug let me know.
Best oil so far.... straight 40w Valvoline dino oil. I never should have strayed.
Just a thought, do you think you might have gotten a bad filter? That just doesn't seem even possible for any oil to go up that much in temp in that mild of weather unless there was another problem. This oil has been run by BMW in a multitude of vehicles. I would think something would have showed up before now if the oil was the problem. I'm not disputing the outcome, I'm just saying there would seem to be another contributing problem.
All I can say is I just turned over 9,000 miles so I have a pretty good baseline to go by. Also, the difference was instant, with the oil change. I noticed today my cold idle oil pressure shoots right to 36 psi, then comes down to 14 or so hot idle. Not so sure 36 psi at idle cold is a good thing.
At running speeds, hot, it's no higher psi than the straight 40w dino oil I was using.
I drank the Kool-Aid, time to throw it back up.
My high compression, big motor has never run cooler and had less Valvetrain noise, since I switched to this oil. I like straight 40 and other high number straight-till the heat over time gets to it in summer stop and go city traffic and it breaks down-then the Valvetrain noise goes up with the temps-not with Liquimoly...
My motor keeps telling me it loves the Koolaid, and to keep feeding it to me...
Quote from: Smarty on September 10, 2015, 08:35:52 AM
Quote from: Bikerscum on September 09, 2015, 05:51:33 PM
Quote from: Tsani on September 07, 2015, 09:09:53 PM
I am running a batch thru right now. I don't know what to make of it yet. My results are completely opposite of what others are saying.
I am sure it is good oil. That said, my engine temps measured using the sensor reading during data logging ( I log almost constantly!) shows a increase of temps and my oil temp gauge also shows a increase as well. Perplexing to say the least. I wonder if it is too "tacky". It does seem to have an assembly lube quality to it. As for noise reduction, nope. Sounds about the same. New oil always make it sound better till you get some miles on it.
This^^^
Put the LM in over the holiday weekend, first ride today. This morning, 75 ambient, stop & go traffic, my temps were about 20 degrees above normal... cooling fans on constantly. That has never happened before. Heat was noticeable on the right side, again.... never before. Oil pressure was maybe a pound higher at idle and at speed. Engine more noisy if anything. That swill is coming out first chance I get. Anyone in the SF Bay area want my leftovers from a 5l jug let me know.
Best oil so far.... straight 40w Valvoline dino oil. I never should have strayed.
Just a thought, do you think you might have gotten a bad filter? That just doesn't seem even possible for any oil to go up that much in temp in that mild of weather unless there was another problem. This oil has been run by BMW in a multitude of vehicles. I would think something would have showed up before now if the oil was the problem. I'm not disputing the outcome, I'm just saying there would seem to be another contributing problem.
I can guarantee its not the filter. :teeth:
Personally, I think my bike just doesn't like this oil. It's not bad oil even tho it has a slightly lower temp tolerant compared to Redline. That will not cause what I am seeing tho. Just goes to show how different engines can be. I would like to dump it out and reload redline just to double verify but not I am running out comparative ambient temps. Looks like we may be heading for an early start to fall temps son.
Now yesterday, another day in the nineties, I did take notice that the oil temps were back to 200 after a long run while the head temps were still a bit higher than normal. Maybe this oil just needs a little break in time. :nix:
Quote from: Bikerscum on September 10, 2015, 09:08:36 AM
Quote from: Smarty on September 10, 2015, 08:35:52 AM
Quote from: Bikerscum on September 09, 2015, 05:51:33 PM
Quote from: Tsani on September 07, 2015, 09:09:53 PM
I am running a batch thru right now. I don't know what to make of it yet. My results are completely opposite of what others are saying.
I am sure it is good oil. That said, my engine temps measured using the sensor reading during data logging ( I log almost constantly!) shows a increase of temps and my oil temp gauge also shows a increase as well. Perplexing to say the least. I wonder if it is too "tacky". It does seem to have an assembly lube quality to it. As for noise reduction, nope. Sounds about the same. New oil always make it sound better till you get some miles on it.
This^^^
Put the LM in over the holiday weekend, first ride today. This morning, 75 ambient, stop & go traffic, my temps were about 20 degrees above normal... cooling fans on constantly. That has never happened before. Heat was noticeable on the right side, again.... never before. Oil pressure was maybe a pound higher at idle and at speed. Engine more noisy if anything. That swill is coming out first chance I get. Anyone in the SF Bay area want my leftovers from a 5l jug let me know.
Best oil so far.... straight 40w Valvoline dino oil. I never should have strayed.
Just a thought, do you think you might have gotten a bad filter? That just doesn't seem even possible for any oil to go up that much in temp in that mild of weather unless there was another problem. This oil has been run by BMW in a multitude of vehicles. I would think something would have showed up before now if the oil was the problem. I'm not disputing the outcome, I'm just saying there would seem to be another contributing problem.
All I can say is I just turned over 9,000 miles so I have a pretty good baseline to go by. Also, the difference was instant, with the oil change. I noticed today my cold idle oil pressure shoots right to 36 psi, then comes down to 14 or so hot idle. Not so sure 36 psi at idle cold is a good thing.
At running speeds, hot, it's no higher psi than the straight 40w dino oil I was using.
I drank the Kool-Aid, time to throw it back up.
My bike will go to about 36 lbs. at idle when cold, Dan Thayer pump, regardless of the oil type or weight. It won't hurt anything. I've never tried LiquiMoly don't intend to.
Went to my small town napa saturday and tried to get this stuff. He wanted me to get a case of 5l jugs and pay the freight on it from the KC warehouse. Kindly sad thanks and left. Amazon still the best place to get this stuff from?
Ebay, 2 5L jugs for $76.17 with free shipping, seller is partscontainer, sorry no link. I just got 2 jugs last week, put about 6K on first change & have 3700 on this change, works great for me.
I just ordered another jug from amazon. Never had much motor noise in my 124 and I dont monitor temps but the oil isnt foaming so im going off all of your guys diligent testing that shows this to be a good oil.
Going to order some tonight, didn't think about I have to get it changed before Bikes Blues and BBQ next weekend. Time is running out on getting it here before then. Are the pictures of different colored bottles just different points of time or are they different oils? The 2024 is what I need to make sure it is right?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-Liters-Liqui-Moly-10W-60-Fully-Synthetic-RaceTech-Motor-Oil-/361217861273?hash=item541a432699&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-Liters-Liqui-Moly-10W-60-Fully-Synthetic-RaceTech-Motor-Oil-/361217861273?hash=item541a432699&vxp=mtr)
Yep that's the stuff. Same place I get mine.
Ray m
Quote from: Soft 02 on September 15, 2015, 08:30:12 AM
I just ordered another jug from amazon. Never had much motor noise in my 124 and I dont monitor temps but the oil isnt foaming so im going off all of your guys diligent testing that shows this to be a good oil.
I wanted to try the Brad Penn dino oil...so I bought a case of the 50wt and 60wt to try. I have changed the oil 3 different times over the summer months running the Brad Penn oils. I always watched my temperature gauges. The Brad Penn dino oils had my oil temps up around the 220- 225* range on a well heat soaked engine.
So a week ago Saturday I drained the Brad Penn oil out of my bike and this time I put some L/Moly 10w60 back in it again. The hottest I have seen my oil temperature to date has been 205* with the synthetic back in it.
Ray
Quote from: No Cents on September 15, 2015, 07:34:07 PM
Quote from: Soft 02 on September 15, 2015, 08:30:12 AM
I just ordered another jug from amazon. Never had much motor noise in my 124 and I dont monitor temps but the oil isnt foaming so im going off all of your guys diligent testing that shows this to be a good oil.
I wanted to try the Brad Penn dino oil...so I bought a case of the 50wt and 60wt to try. I have changed the oil 3 different times over the summer months running the Brad Penn oils. I always watched my temperature gauges. The Brad Penn dino oils had my oil temps up around the 220- 225* range on a well heat soaked engine.
So a week ago Saturday I drained the Brad Penn oil out of my bike and this time I put some L/Moly 10w60 back in it again. The hottest I have seen my oil temperature to date has been 205* with the synthetic back in it.
Ray
And for results like that I will keep blindly using this stuff. Thanks to all you guys who have way too much time and ambition on your hands!
:hyst:
it's called being semi-retired.
Ray
Ray, have you started to wonder how you had time to go to work yet? :hyst:
Well crap, USPS lost my oil I sent in for testing. I have a tracking number so I went to the Post Office and it shows to have never left the Post Office. They looked it up and said it left there but they don't know where it is. Supposed to call me and let me know what they find out. Just my luck. Just in case, I did save some oil for something just like this to happen.
Quote from: 76shuvlinoff on August 21, 2015, 11:41:38 AM
Quote from: slothy on August 19, 2015, 10:30:25 AM
Quote from: 76shuvlinoff on August 18, 2015, 01:36:14 PM
Quote from: krwson on August 17, 2015, 05:14:50 PM
Who from 76 ?
I know some guys hate eBay but that's where I get it.
Mark
whats the sellers name? all i find is bwm kits with oil filters
here,
http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-Liters-Liqui-Moly-10W-60-Fully-Synthetic-RaceTech-Motor-Oil-/361217861273?hash=item541a432699&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-Liters-Liqui-Moly-10W-60-Fully-Synthetic-RaceTech-Motor-Oil-/361217861273?hash=item541a432699&vxp=mtr)
I've had Questions about the best least money place to BUY LiquiMoly...
I think it is Here @ Ebay... Thanks Mark....... signed....BUBBIE
Have been buying from the eBay seller Oemparthaus. Says they're in Azle TX but evidently they have a warehouse here on the West Coast. They're a bit more expensive @ $41.24 shipped for a 5L jug but it arrives overnight. Ordered another jug yesterday at 9am and it's already marked "out for delivery" with UPS in Pacific WA.
Between the eBay Bucks and the coupons they send me there's usually a significant savings. Used a $25 coupon yesterday and scored both the 5L of 10w60 and a HiFloFiltro HF-171 for $25.23 shipped. The filter (@$8.99) from BikesnPawn ships out of Florida so it won't be here till next week but that's cool as it's just replacing the new one that's already here on the shelf. Should have just over 5k miles on this last oil change Sunday when I get back from the Oyster Run in Anacortes.
Have a Blackstone kit on-hand and will be sending in a sample.
Ride on,
KEM
KEM,
Have a good Oyster Run... Maybe give a report on the Oysters... Should be a lot of Bikers...
I didn't make it up this time, Still running the HOT COUNTRY * NOW COOLING... :SM:
NM TODAY, Top of Az Tomorrow...
10w60 does it ALL...
signed....BUBBIE
Ok, I finally got back my report from Blackstone on the oil tested with 8000 miles on it. It had a little more than normal aluminum and copper than normal. They explained that was due to the engine having so few miles on it when I changed to Luigi-Moly. On viscosity at 210 degrees it actually had properties that showed higher viscosity than other similar weight oils at that temperature (96.2 compared to 80-95. On viscosity at 100C it was at 19.47 others on average were 15.5-19.4. I like the report and goes to prove what Bubbie has been posting. Two big thumbs up Bubbie for the Liqui-Moly. Looks like I'm sticking around with it. Side note, I went thru about 200 miles and 3.5 hours with outside temps averaging from 210-212 outside of Barstow on this 8000 mile trip. It would have been nice to know what the oil temp was during this part of the trip.
On another brand of oil, many posters said the reason they wouldn't buy that brand was because it was "hard to find". I see here that this oil is way harder to find and a bit more expensive. How to you explain why you buy this oil if it is so hard to find.
Also how do you debate the people that say you are not suppose to mix different oils = In case you were on a long trip and needed to add oil - do you carry an extra quart with you?
I'm a motorcycle specific oil guy and if possible, will never run automotive oil in my bike even though thousands of riders do with no problems.
"outside temps averaging from 210-212"
:missed: Now that's HOT!
Id say without the internet or a local Napa store it would be very hard to find. Plan ahead.
Quote from: GARYD on September 29, 2015, 06:53:56 AM
On another brand of oil, many posters said the reason they wouldn't buy that brand was because it was "hard to find". I see here that this oil is way harder to find and a bit more expensive. How to you explain why you buy this oil if it is so hard to find.
Also how do you debate the people that say you are not suppose to mix different oils = In case you were on a long trip and needed to add oil - do you carry an extra quart with you?
I'm a motorcycle specific oil guy and if possible, will never run automotive oil in my bike even though thousands of riders do with no problems.
I have no problem finding Liqui-moly. I know when I'm going to change and buy ahead of time and it is cheaper but that was not my determining factor. The reports from Bubbie swung my vote. As far as on the road and finding it. Not concerned, it would not bother me to drop in some Mobil 1 or others on the road as I would change it when I got home. For that matter, I think most recommend putting in oil for diesel engines as an alternative to add to if it needs it.
The local NAPA has it as well as EBay and Amazon. I can order it and not even leave the house. Tons of riders run oil they need to order. I had been running the Wallyword 15w-50 Mobil one but I might run Liqui Moly for awhile.
I have added non-syn oil to synthetic in a pinch when on the road. Worked fine. Changed it about 1000 miles later, no problems. 99,500 abusive miles so far on this motor, seems to be working fine. I have had many types and brands of oil thru it over the years. Running syn for the last 75,000 miles, mostly Amsoil because it's easily found, but last 6 or 7 changes were Valvoline, cause it was $3.28 a quart, bought 27 quarts.
As far as adding non-synthetic oil or other brand oils to a specific synthetic oil....
Ask the oil companies...they will affirm you can mix synthetics and dinos without issue.
All adding dino oil to syn oil does is slightly reduce the oil's ability to withstand elevated temps.
Other than that, the quality of virtually any dino or syn oil will be fine in 99% of all Harleys out there.
Bob
Not sure how far the company delivers but:
For UK riders it can be had from here http://www.mytyres.co.uk/oil/product/engine-oil/liqui-moly/307 (http://www.mytyres.co.uk/oil/product/engine-oil/liqui-moly/307)
http://image.delti.com/oil-pictures/Liqui_Moly/307/SYNTHOIL_RACE_TECH_GT1_10W-60_1.jpg (http://image.delti.com/oil-pictures/Liqui_Moly/307/SYNTHOIL_RACE_TECH_GT1_10W-60_1.jpg)
Liqui Moly SYNTHOIL RACE TECH GT1 10W-60
Stock Level:In StockCategory: Engine oil Viscosity:10W-60Applications: Car Properties: All-season oil, Fully synthetic, Low-viscosity oil
Free shipping
All prices incl. VAT
1 Litre Can 10.90 £ per Litre 10,90 £
Add to Cart
5 Litre Can 7.80 £ per Litre 39,00 £
Add to Cart
20 Litre Canister 6.15 £ per Litre 122,90 £
Regards
JohnT
Quote from: electrajohnt on September 29, 2015, 02:21:31 PM
Not sure how far the company delivers but:
For UK riders it can be had from here http://www.mytyres.co.uk/oil/product/engine-oil/liqui-moly/307 (http://www.mytyres.co.uk/oil/product/engine-oil/liqui-moly/307)
http://image.delti.com/oil-pictures/Liqui_Moly/307/SYNTHOIL_RACE_TECH_GT1_10W-60_1.jpg (http://image.delti.com/oil-pictures/Liqui_Moly/307/SYNTHOIL_RACE_TECH_GT1_10W-60_1.jpg)
Liqui Moly SYNTHOIL RACE TECH GT1 10W-60
Stock Level:In StockCategory: Engine oil Viscosity:10W-60Applications: Car Properties: All-season oil, Fully synthetic, Low-viscosity oil
Free shipping
All prices incl. VAT
1 Litre Can 10.90 £ per Litre 10,90 £
Add to Cart
5 Litre Can 7.80 £ per Litre 39,00 £
Add to Cart
20 Litre Canister 6.15 £ per Litre 122,90 £
Regards
JohnT
:SM: After 34 pages, someone changes the name of the thread.... :hyst:
? To Ohio HD
What did I do wrong.
JohnT
:pop:
Well, I see Nothing wrong JohnT...
Same stuff I (WE) use...
Maybe it is the ........ "Liqui Moly SYNTHOIL RACE TECH GT1 10W-60"...... Same in MY book... :oil:
Don't worry about it/I can't see anything changed, but the wording? :idunno:
We'll see What : Ohio HD says... EH?
By the Way, JohnT,
Good information you posted here... :SM:
signed....BUBBIE
Amazon also has many Distributors that sell and Free ship for about 41/42$ for 5 ltr Jugs :SM:
Quote from: electrajohnt on September 30, 2015, 03:30:51 PM
? To Ohio HD
What did I do wrong.
JohnT
I think he's just yanking your chain (having a little fun)
Ray m
He changed the name of the post on his reply, to something about UK prices. Admins fixed it. Just struck a funny bone is all.
In one post, auto-correct changed it to Luigi Moly. I liked that. Just like changing to Bubblie.
HOSS,
That Luigi is where you get that STICKY stuff in the Moly... No wonder it sticks to the parts... AND I did use Nose Tissue to wipe it off the pushrods... :SM:
signed....BUBBIE
Hi all,
I too tried the Luqui Moly 10w-60 and have a quieter top end on my 95". I don't use much oil but fill one of my old Amsoil bottles with a new label I made for it and carry that in my bags. Thanks to bubbie its my new oil..........goldie
Yep gotta love liquid moly :SM:
Does anyone have anything negative to say about this stuff?
Quote from: NHBAGGER on November 02, 2015, 04:06:42 AM
Does anyone have anything negative to say about this stuff?
On Softails it tends to foam up. My catch can was frothing. Had to stop using it.
I wonder how many softail? Mine likes it so far. 2 oil changes with this stuff.
Quote from: Soft 02 on November 02, 2015, 04:56:55 AM
I wonder how many softail? Mine likes it so far. 2 oil changes with this stuff.
Do you run a catch can? My 124" froths A LOT with Molly. Went back to Torqo and no foam.
I popped the rocker cover off of my ride to see if it was just the catch can but my breathers and a good amount of the rocker box was quite foamed.
Yes im running a can. Maybe because I have the hose routed up the frame and down behind the oil bag it negated the foaming. I do mostly get just water though.
I hear ya gotta run 3-4 oil coolers to deal with the foam. :potstir: -Rick
Quote from: 04 SE DEUCE on November 02, 2015, 09:15:09 AM
I hear ya gotta run 3-4 oil coolers to deal with the foam. :potstir: -Rick
In Series... :hyst:
Quote from: Jaycee1964 on November 02, 2015, 09:39:08 AM
Quote from: 04 SE DEUCE on November 02, 2015, 09:15:09 AM
I hear ya gotta run 3-4 oil coolers to deal with the foam. :potstir: -Rick
In Series... :hyst:
LOL Down to 2 coolers BTW, no appreciable change in cooling, that bottom cooler concept has diminishing returns.
2000 WG with 43k miles on motor.
Report wasn't as decent as Bubbies but I don't feel there's anything alarming. Not sure I'll go 5k miles again before changing. Plan on sending in another sample around 3k miles.
Copper is high and viscosity is on the low side. New cam plate (25284-11) hi vol oil pump, bearings and S&S adj pushrods installed 7k miles back. Wondering if copper was from camplate bushing still wearing in at time of changing to LM? Ran Royal Purple 20w50 for the first 2k miles then I read this thread and switched to LM.
After around 4K miles on LM oil I did notice the oil pressure start to drop a few lbs. Had been running 44lbs @ 3k rpm and dropped to 40 lbs. Pressure at idle was around 18lbs.
Going to tear into cam chest soon for new cams and S&S lifters. Will change bearings again. Still running original cams/lifters. I couldn't decide on which cams to install at the time of the cam plate upgrade. Bike was fairly new to me and tensioners needed attention before summer trips. Got a steal of a deal on new cam plate/adj pushrods so I just went ahead and did that part for reliability. Original cams/lifters at the time looked really good.
Over 54K views. :scratch:
I guess I'll never be that oil research type of guy. Makes me feel almost ignorant just dumping in the cheapest syn 20W50 I can find and throwing on a new WIX filter. I just ride and don't worry about it. :smile:
Quote from: Ancient on November 03, 2015, 01:22:25 PM
Over 54K views. :scratch:
I guess I'll never be that oil research type of guy. Makes me feel almost ignorant just dumping in the cheapest syn 20W50 I can find and throwing on a new WIX filter. I just ride and don't worry about it. :smile:
Man, you're just asking for trouble! Your motor will never last with that kind of attitude.
Quote from: Hossamania on November 03, 2015, 07:41:11 PM
Quote from: Ancient on November 03, 2015, 01:22:25 PM
Over 54K views. :scratch:
I guess I'll never be that oil research type of guy. Makes me feel almost ignorant just dumping in the cheapest syn 20W50 I can find and throwing on a new WIX filter. I just ride and don't worry about it. :smile:
Man, you're just asking for trouble! Your motor will never last with that kind of attitude.
I know! I've been wrapping the oil bottles in a towel so it can't see the brand. I think it may be on to me though. :emsad:
Quote from: Ancient on November 03, 2015, 01:22:25 PM
Over 54K views. :scratch:
I guess I'll never be that oil research type of guy. Makes me feel almost ignorant just dumping in the cheapest syn 20W50 I can find and throwing on a new WIX filter. I just ride and don't worry about it. :smile:
You're on the right track there. I've been saying the same thing forever.
Anybody running this 10w60 LiquiMoly in the COOL weather yet? I Am......
My SE Az. area has not been too cold yet, Picking days @ 40* most at start out on rides and a Tad under 70* best by Noon...
No oil cooler is needed on these last rides out... Burrrrrrrr :potstir:
signed....BUBBIE
Yes I am. it was down in the low 30's on Dec. 6th here in Denver. Cranked easy and pressure came right up with no abnormal issue.
Quote from: BUBBIE on December 14, 2015, 11:42:30 AM
Anybody running this 10w60 LiquiMoly in the COOL weather yet? I Am......
My SE Az. area has not been too cold yet, Picking days @ 40* most at start out on rides and a Tad under 70* best by Noon...
No oil cooler is needed on these last rides out... Burrrrrrrr :potstir:
signed....BUBBIE
:cry:... :emoGroan:.
:gob:
Hey; IT Is Winter and that means Oil Threads... At least this one is a GOOD ONE.....
signed....BUBBIE
:pop:
So, here is a related (oil question)............Wifes Equinox has about 2600 miles on it since the last oil change. When it was changed, I had them put in Mobil 1.........5W30 as I recall. I like to go about 5000 on an oil change when using syn oil.
Here is the "catch", her (black box) car computer has recognized that the last oil change was done last December........so even though the milage is not that great, it keeps flashing a "needed oil change". Recent readout via OnStar indicates it has been one year since the change.
I'm gonna run it by the Dealership, but I have no intentions of changing it till quite a bit of additional milage occurs and no, I don't believe that there is any significant contamination of that oil via condensation, etc. It is garaged at all times.
Just a pain in the azz with the readout she sees everytime she gets in and starts it up. :banghead:
A good piece of black tape will take care of that pesky reminder.
:koolaid:
That is for sure an option. In fact, I've already done that in the past with the "check engine" light on my Avalanche. Knowing that the code was emissions related............no big deal, I used the tape solution for quite a while.
Problem comes up when you go in for the State inspection, they won't pass the vehicle till you can clear that code. :potstir:
Quote from: moscooter on December 14, 2015, 03:26:49 PM
:pop:
So, here is a related (oil question)............Wifes Equinox has about 2600 miles on it since the last oil change. When it was changed, I had them put in Mobil 1.........5W30 as I recall. I like to go about 5000 on an oil change when using syn oil.
Here is the "catch", her (black box) car computer has recognized that the last oil change was done last December........so even though the milage is not that great, it keeps flashing a "needed oil change". Recent readout via OnStar indicates it has been one year since the change.
I'm gonna run it by the Dealership, but I have no intentions of changing it till quite a bit of additional milage occurs and no, I don't believe that there is any significant contamination of that oil via condensation, etc. It is garaged at all times.
Just a pain in the azz with the readout she sees everytime she gets in and starts it up. :banghead:
Just reset the "engine oil life" Here's how
http://seventrumpet.com/resetting-the-oil-life-light-on-2005-to-2015-chevy-equinox/ (http://seventrumpet.com/resetting-the-oil-life-light-on-2005-to-2015-chevy-equinox/)
I'll never use amszoil in anything again, put in there syn hypoid in truck( per oem specs ) , axle bearing shot in 6 months.. Mobile 1 & Shell Rotela does the job..
Quote from: dynablack07 on December 14, 2015, 07:29:13 PM
I'll never use amszoil in anything again, put in there syn hypoid in truck( per oem specs ) , axle bearing shot in 6 months.. Mobile 1 & Shell Rotela does the job..
Really,you believe your use of Amsoil caused your axle bearing to fail,,,I'd be thinking the bearing was on the way out anyway.JMO
That doesn't sound right.... :oil:
Amsoil will take Out you MUFFLER Bearings before axle bearing problems... :scoot:
10w60 LiquiMoly will put them Back...Good stuff... :SM:
signed....BUBBIE
On these freezing cold morning like today (63* here near Austin) the bike cranks and starts really easy with this oil.
lol :emoGroan:
Quote from: HD95 on December 14, 2015, 07:57:09 PM
Quote from: dynablack07 on December 14, 2015, 07:29:13 PM
I'll never use amszoil in anything again, put in there syn hypoid in truck( per oem specs ) , axle bearing shot in 6 months.. Mobile 1 & Shell Rotela does the job..
Really,you believe your use of Amsoil caused your axle bearing to fail,,,I'd be thinking the bearing was on the way out anyway.JMO
I agree. It wasn't the Amsoil. Otherwise cars and trucks all over the world would be down.
Right, the Mobil and Shell works great - AFTER he replaces the worn out axle bearings. :) :)
I love it when someone uses some product, be it oil or anything else, and all of a sudden has a problem, it automatically is that products fault. Even though no one else has the same problem. :emoGroan:
DAMN---I really need to study this oil thread
:bf: haven't found my oil life light on the 55 chevy yet
Many years of Trucker use, Chevrons RPM DELO seems to be a good Favorite along with Shell Rotella... Two of the best here IMO and many Truckers opinions also.
I see they have Shell Rotella t6 for motorcycles... Link below:
http://www.Bing.com/search?q=shell+rotella+t6+in+motorcycles&qs=AS&pq=shell+rotella&sk=AS4&sc=8-13&sp=5&cvid=225928BFA2CE481B88217096884F9715&FORM=QBLH&ghc=1 (http://www.Bing.com/search?q=shell+rotella+t6+in+motorcycles&qs=AS&pq=shell+rotella&sk=AS4&sc=8-13&sp=5&cvid=225928BFA2CE481B88217096884F9715&FORM=QBLH&ghc=1)
signed....BUBBIE
A friend of mine once asked if there was a cheaper oil available rather than the Harley oil, which was $5 a quart at the time. He changed oil once a year and he was sick of paying the high prices. Um, OK, $20 is too much once a year? I told him about the Rotella, which was about $4 to $4.50 a quart. That made him happy.
Yeah, I didn't understand either.
This is the same guy that had a Shovel rebuilt, did not give the builder enough time to do a proper break-in or tune, got stuck in traffic and overheated the bike on the way home from the shop, then absolutely bitched about the crappy job the guy did on the motor because it never quite ran right.
I don't see him that often, for a few reasons.
Quote from: BUBBIE on December 14, 2015, 08:28:13 PM
That doesn't sound right.... :oil:
Amsoil will take Out you MUFFLER Bearings before axle bearing problems... :scoot:
signed....BUBBIE
also rumored to weaken the piston return springs... :nix:
Let's not stop there, don't forget it will make your windshield wiper motor quit after 3000 miles. :emoGroan:
Nope, it takes out Henway first!
Quote from: Bsmith153 on December 16, 2015, 07:40:53 AM
Nope, it takes out Henway first!
OK I'll bite, what's a henway? :potstir:
:emoGroan:
Not hard to tell when Winter is coming around here LOL
~John
Quote from: jmorton10 on December 16, 2015, 02:49:00 PM
Not hard to tell when Winter is coming around here LOL
~John
Tomorrow
No it's here 8" of white sh.t in my driveway.
Ray m
I was gonna say a pound and a half, you have fat hens man! Lol
Quote from: Bsmith153 on December 16, 2015, 07:40:53 AM
Nope, it takes out Henway first!
Man you must be old. That joke is really ancient. About as old as this joke. "How do Frenchmen hold their liquor"? :emoGroan:
ON Topic: :gob:
All Motors work Better, Last Longer, using 10w60 LiquidMoly...
signed....BUBBIE
:wink:
:baby:
Off Topic...
Removed by Me...
signed....BUBBIE
:sheep:
And what's up with you and the IS (Islamic States)?
Oh wait! That's just you yelling. :slap: :SM:
Removed by Me...
signed....BUBBIE
This thread has gone far enough off track that one of Max's first actions as a new administrator was to move it out of General and into Earl's. Hmmm.....
Any new info on Liquimoly? Seems to be acceptable as a lubricant for our air cooled motors. Much like Redline, Mobile1, Rotella, etc.
Signed.....HOSS
Well I brought it back up into General a short while ago: to get information on how the 10w60 LiquiMoly oil was doing in the cooler weather... IT got off track and sadly I Helped it Get Off Track... :sad:
Sorry to Mislead the direction it went... Mostly a good thread with a lot of following and good reports...
Maybe it can be revived to be put back into General...
Only time and Proper posting HERE as calling it General not Earls will get it there... Sorry Brice.... It got away BY me...
signed....BUBBIE
I just had to give a little grief...
Well, I went into my Non Compliant Posts on this 10w60 LiquidMoly page and Edit'ed them out... Only to find out that ALL Oil Threads will go into Earls ...
Oh Well, all is well that ends well :scratch: :nix:
signed....BUBBIE
Why not show a before and after dyno chart? That way Max will move it to General again! :pop:
Here is the Latest Blackstone report by PoorUB.... :SM:
http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,88104.0.html (http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,88104.0.html)
Maybe UB will consent to Merging it together on the BIG original Oil Thread.?... :nix: If not? no Big-E :SM:
signed....BUBBIE
Here you go Bubbie, as promised.
This is one of several bikes I own. Due to work issues, I have been traveling to different job sites and this bike sat while traveling because I brought another bike with me But my last job was in South Carolina and I when I got home, I changed the oil out to the moly and used this bike till I was ready to tear in to it. I decided to try this oil out because I knew I was going to do this motor and I was seeing a rise in heat in the motor (higher than normal). The fact that I am rebuilding the motor has nothing to do with this oil. This oil did not cool the engine any better than the Redline IMHO, nor could it have, but the oil bag temperature stayed the same as before I started having a heat issue. The only change made to this motor between these two samples is type oil filter, filter relocation and two changes of lifters. The two lifter sets were changed because after 1500 miles, I did not care for the way the first set was running and changed to a different maker which now have a tad over 20,ooo miles on them.The filter location was changed from the front of the motor to behind the primary. The oil filter was changed to a cleanable SS mesh filter. Oil in the comparison sample was Mobil 1 VTwin 20wt/60. The only other difference is that this last oil change was a five quart change so there was no mixing of the Redline 20wt/60 that was in prior. This engine is being redone because the rods are out spec on side play and runout has increased to a point where I am not happy with it. This engine has seen nothing but synthetic oil since it's first oil change at 500 miles. and the air filter has been a K&N since about that time as well. Can't account for the high silicon in the older sample as the previous samples and the ones after did not have it. So, IMHO, this is not a miracle oil but it is a good oil. It was ran on a engine with issues and did well. If I get it on sale, I would run it again, but I will know more later this year. After rebuilding and breaking this engine in, I will run a change of this oil and then have it tested. I still have 5 qts of the stuff and may be I will pick up another change or two. The real test will be after the engine is done. But as I said, it did real good on a engine I knew had a problem.
And here is a PDF version
Liqui Moly 2024 Synthoil Race Tech GT1 10W-60 Motor Oil
Compare to the Blackstone on Page 23...
Link:
http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?topic=75005.550 (http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?topic=75005.550)
Post #554
Shows the Two I did at 4300 and 6111 miles... Good reports... :SM:
signed.... BUBBIE
Quote from: BUBBIE on June 15, 2016, 09:34:07 PM
Liqui Moly 2024 Synthoil Race Tech GT1 10W-60 Motor Oil
Compare to the Blackstone on Page 23...
Link:
http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?topic=75005.550 (http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?topic=75005.550)
Post #554
Shows the Two I did at 4300 and 6111 miles... Good reports... :SM:
signed.... BUBBIE
Still running it Bubbie, that report I did with 8000 miles on the change last year on my big trip sold me.
Still running it year round in a S&S111 and TC103, and see no reason to change, just ordered another 10 liters yesterday.
Quote from: moscooter on December 14, 2015, 03:26:49 PM
:pop:
So, here is a related (oil question)............Wifes Equinox has about 2600 miles on it since the last oil change. When it was changed, I had them put in Mobil 1.........5W30 as I recall. I like to go about 5000 on an oil change when using syn oil.
Here is the "catch", her (black box) car computer has recognized that the last oil change was done last December........so even though the milage is not that great, it keeps flashing a "needed oil change". Recent readout via OnStar indicates it has been one year since the change.
I'm gonna run it by the Dealership, but I have no intentions of changing it till quite a bit of additional milage occurs and no, I don't believe that there is any significant contamination of that oil via condensation, etc. It is garaged at all times.
Just a pain in the azz with the readout she sees everytime she gets in and starts it up. :banghead:
In your owners manual or on google you can reset the oil change paramaters.
Nice to see the thread is still going!
I changed my oil at 6500 miles but somehow lost the sample :emoGroan:
I have ran the oil from 25* ambient to 105* ambient, Parking lot cone contests to sustained 115mph trips...
With my cooler improvements The hottest the oil has ever seen heat soaked in a traffic jam is now 240*
190*-210* running temps on a 95* day with non epa area 89 octane fuel and 210*-230* with EPA fuel...
I am averaging $8.50/quart from my local Napa including tax.
I like the oil... It works for me... I believe it is one of the best LOW COST 100% synthetic options out there for our bikes that has been proven in EXTREME heat...
You all know how I hate heat in an air cooled motor!
Next topic will be my spark plug tests for low rpm response, torque, and engine smoothness!
I have been gone awhile (divorce-etc) I am now back and have a great fiance that Loves to ride... I missed y'all!
Brice[attachimg=1]
BTW Bubbie, Thanks for keeping the thread alive! :SM:
So it sounds like 8000 miles is a good starting place to consider an oil change. I've been pleased so far. Nothing bad to say, motor is quieter.
:wink:
"Next topic will be my spark plug tests for low rpm response, torque, and engine smoothness!"
:emoGroan: This could launch a whole new multi page post of its own...................with way too many variables to make any of it worth while. :argue:
Has anyone tried this stuff in the primary?
I run it in the primary with no problem.
Smarty,
So you have run it in Your primary? !
What power n size is your motor and what is in the primary? Clutch? Stock?
Never thought to use it there... Glad someone Did Though...
Liking my MTL for the Primary...Been using it forever with GREAT Results... No change for me but might be OK for others... :SM:
But Now I wonder How many Others use 10w60 2024 LiquiMoly it in the Primary Too... ?
I have always Suggested the ones that say "Wet Clutch Approved" for my scooters and Others who ask me what to use on theirs... :scoot: ...
signed....BUBBIE
Yes Bubbie, been running it in my primary for almost a year. I use Redline Shockproof in the tranny. I run the D&D Fatcats and an Andrews 57h cam. Tuned out 96hp and about 107 tq. Never a slipping clutch at all. Oil looks really good when it comes out. I was running the Amsoil in it before you found this. Maybe not for everyone but works well for me.
I would not mind trying it on my next Primary Change but I have several quarts of MTL's to go through yet... :SM:
10w60 2024 LiquiMoly; Good Oil Too, NOW for the Primary... Better Yet...
I was concerned on Slipping but your not having a problem... :up:
Thanks for your Feed Back...
Maybe others who use it in the Primary will report back in... Cost Wise it IS a BIG Bonus...
signed....BUBBIE
Quote from: Mountainman streetbob on June 16, 2016, 11:01:12 AM
BTW Bubbie, Thanks for keeping the thread alive! :SM:
Thats what he gets paid for :bike:
signed, kris
Just wondering, doesn't anyone use oil coolers? I've been running Mobil 1 15-50 sense I took the first 5,000 mile dealer check up oil out. I've got 95, 400 miles in all three box's with it. Yesterday I road 240 miles in 87 degree temps with no wind and my tank temp never saw over 180. Speeds were between 53-75.
Off subject but I'm surprised with no wind all flat roads at the 65-75 ride I got 48.8 mpg. At the 53-55 I got 55.5. My bike has always got good milage for the build and yesterdays roads and lack of wind was on my side for the best I've seen.
So in a long about way I'm asking why spend so much on oil, just get an oil cooler run a jaggs manual thermostat on it to turn the cooler off in the winter. I had the auto thermostat and it stuck open and cooled all the time. I replaced it with the manual. I'm not trying to sell anyone on Mobil 1 just asking why so much for oil. My valve train is quiet. And my battery is happy being surrounded by a cooler oil tank This was a long thread to catch up if the subject was brought up oops :smiled:
I use an oil cooler, it came on the bike. I also use the Wards fans. Been using the Liqui-Moly too. In fact, I'm going to try their 20-50 oil this time. I think there's even one for motorcycle engines too.
ON Any Twin Cam, I would always use and Suggest to use an Oil Cooler... :up:
Notice some even run Cooling FANS. Big motors BIGGER Heat... Good TUNE n knowledgeable Tuners have a Lot to do with how cool Modified Builds run...
Lot of money tied up in some of the Hot Builds... CHEAP insurance is installing a cooler (s)
Most oils will do a good job IF Not over heated... We find our Favorites (oil) and usually think they are the Best (DON'T WE) :hyst: ME, mememememeeme...
Hardest change for me was from 20/50 n 60 V-Twin Redline engine oil to 10w60 LiquiMoly... Now I say IT is ONE of the best I have ever used in any TC slightly HOT motor...
My Blackstone Oil Reports Proved it working Excellent in my Higher compression 103" Motor... Page 23 in the thread shows Both reports. :SM: :SM:
SOME buy a Harley :idea: Then put in bigger builds that cost Thousands of Xtra dollars and CHEAP Out *NOT* using Proper cooling/tune and a Good OIL.... :hyst: :kick:
signed....BUBBIE
Corrected Type-O's...
I knew a guy who was looking for a cheaper oil because he thought the price of HD oil was too high at like $5 a quart. He changed oil once a year.
I told him about Rotella, and he was happy because it only cost $4.25 a quart.
OK . Totally worth the effort. I guess.
Someone I met at a rally had 150 thou on his 87 custom softail. He took it the dealer for every check up and oil change, 360 oil. I still live in the EVO world. I forget some TC's came with coolers and run hotter. I too found my comfort zone and keep in that groove. I'm becoming that old dog that don't have to learn new tricks :scoot:
Still using the 10w60 LiquiMoly 2024...?.............. :fish: I AM... :SM:
I'm to about 59,500 miles on my 103" build... I did add about 3 ounces of oil to the tank to fill to the low line...
I Know that is the HOT oil line on the side-stand but I Keep it There AND it keeps there for a long while...
First time over the last 4000 miles I added a Little oil...
Thinking about sending out my Original 96" (88" bore) cylinders and get them bored to 103" (95") using new SE flat top pistons n rings... :idea: (just being Ready)
I'll have to have a reason besides "mileage" on this build to do another right now...
Last check, my Compression is up and no metal on the drain plug YET... :SM:
But a fresh top-end is always a Nice feeling too... Usually go at it Below 50,000 miles Just for the change...
The Bottom End? :nix:
I'll gamble on it if it looks and feels good when part... Use it TOO...
I have used Only TWO good oils in this motor... Redline and LiquiMoly...
10w60 LiquiMoly has been the one for MOST of the 103" build miles... :SM:
signed....BUBBIE
Put in the right sized cylinder diminution... in Red
Quote from: BUBBIE on August 04, 2016, 10:44:10 AM
Still using the 10w60 LiquiMoly 2024...?.............. :fish: I AM... :SM:
Yep, started using LM right when this thread started, just looked back at the op date, it's been over two years already.
Quote from: Jaycee1964 on July 16, 2014, 09:02:44 AM
Quote from: DOM on July 16, 2014, 06:06:43 AM
I have a question. What is it that makes an oil "for air cooled V-Twin engines"? Are there additives? Is it really different than regular syn oil? I wonder because Amsoil and Redline both have 20-60 "regular" and "air cooled" versions available. Well, at least in the 20-50 versions.
For a Harley the Anti-foam is the biggest IMO. Nothing like pulling the cap off and seeing a sea of foam in the tank.
Always wondered that myself. So why would a low rpm Harley bumping along at 2500 whip up any more foam that a water cooled Japanese 4 cylinder reving at 14,000? Also, HD is dry sump, so the likelyhood of the oil pump sucking up bubbles is almost nil compared to a wet sump engine. Personally, I always felt that the whole "made for air cooled V twin" thing is nothing but marketing hype. Marketeers are like politicians.... can you really trust anything they say?
As for me, it's straight 50wt. Never bought into the line that "need low viscosity at start up" story. Is an oil like 20w-60 a 60wt oil that has chemicals in it to make it 20wt when it's cold? Not even, in fact the other way around. As multi-vis oils age, those "viscosity improvers" lose their effect with heat and aeration. In essence, "evaporate" out of the base oil. So your high number viscosity slowly goes down with time, and eventually you have nothing but the base oil left, i.e. 20wt. Straight weights stay the same from cradle to grave.
YMMV,
-JW
Might want to check with the lifter manufacturers as to proper viscosity
What's recommended Mid-Atlantic Area:
Liqui Moly 10W-60 Motorbike Street Race 4T Synth
or
Liqui Moly 10W-60 Synthoil Race tech GT1
Thanks
Larry
I started running the 10w60 Moly 2 days after it was posted here (Amazon free 2 day shipping). I have used in two bikes/my truck & my Wifes Jag ever since.
I used it to break-in my 124 S&S motor because it was all I had at the time.
I think it is a great oil for the price.
~John
I've been using the 10w60 L/Moly Race Tech GT-1...with excellent results.
Ray
Quote from: viguy76 on August 11, 2016, 11:56:32 AM
What's recommended Mid-Atlantic Area:
Liqui Moly 10W-60 Motorbike Street Race 4T Synth
or
Liqui Moly 10W-60 Synthoil Race tech GT1
Thanks
Larry
Larry,
Either should do the Job...
The only one I know about is the one I Use... (same as
Mr. No Cents) :SM:
I like the "Liqui Moly 2024 Synthoil Race Tech GT1 10W-60 Motor Oil - 5 Liter Jug" .... $40.15 Prime membership from Amazon with Free Shipping...
signed....BUBBIE
Looking on Amazon: I think I found the other oil you mentioned BUT look at the PRICE... No For Me... :hyst:
Liqui Moly (1525) 10W-60 High Performance Racing Synth 4T Motor Oil -
1 Liter BottleApr 6, 2013
by Liqui Moly
$21.47 $21.50PrimeBIG Difference in Price but would it be worth it in a Daily Rider?
over 100$ for 5 quarts compared to 40$ for 5 liters...
Racing :nix: :chop: For Me: :scoot: good enough...
Quote from: No Cents on August 11, 2016, 02:03:07 PM
I've been using the 10w60 L/Moly Race Tech GT-1...with excellent results.
Ray
:up:
I ran the stuff for 4400 miles last summer and the oil analysis was my best ever.
Seemed quiet and ran cool. Very impressive to me.
Bob
Thanks for the replies. Checked Local NAPA store and they stock the GT1.
Larry
I guess I'm the odd man out. I didn't notice any significant difference temp or noise wise as compared to Valvoline VR1. My motor is pretty quiet and if anything it might be tad noisier, but it might just be in my head.
Rick
Ever since it showed up here on HTT I have ran it in both the 12 TC and the S&S "shovel". I have seen not tested it but I trust the results I read here and since I still have about 15L left I am going to stick with it for a while.
Quote from: Eglider05 on August 13, 2016, 04:24:01 AM
I guess I'm the odd man out. I didn't notice any significant difference temp or noise wise as compared to Valvoline VR1. My motor is pretty quiet and if anything it might be tad noisier, but it might just be in my head.
Rick
You're not alone. Definitely made my engine noisier too. :nix: There have been other similar reports.
Best I've used so far as far as noise is Spectro 25-60 dino oil. In fact dino oil in general runs quieter.
Ducking for cover....
My suggestion for members IS "use what you Want and Know what WORKS Best for you and your Motor"... Simple Eh...
ROCKER and others,
What you might not know or Not be Seeing I think is: 25/60 Dino IS already a MODIFIED Oil...
****************************************************************************
My Take on How it "IS" to compare Synthetic to straight Dino...
DINO oil is like Having a Mixed Bunch of Thin people and Fat People of Different Sizes, all mixed together, running throughout your motor. This "IS" your oil makeup.
YES, that is a Good easy way to explain ONE of the BIG differences between the Two (syn/dino)....
Fully Synthetic made oil:
(using Redline as example here because I know more about it to say it this way...)
Is a Makeup of a Controlled Crowd of people... All the same size, None Larger than the other... They are "Made People" to be EXACTLY the same and running through your motor as your oil makeup...
The Dino having More Cushion to it "IS" BOUND to be less Noisy.... Thin and Thick Molecules should be Quieter...
Synthetic being ALL the same sized Thickness will usually be Noisier..
SIMPLE and THIS is the way MOST work....
added to the mix: NOT Fully knowing about a Product; Kinda Like When People Bash Rocker Lockers ie They Simply Don't Know the Product NOR how it works... :SM:
SAME with the Comparison of OILS described above.... :SM:
as always; JMO
signed....BUBBIE
I have never - ever - had an oil related problem with ANY of my vehicles by using the correct viscosity brand name dino or syn oil and changed at the recommended intervals.
I've used Mobil/Penzoil/Amsoil/Shell/Sears/Valvoline/etc - and once I even tried Syn3 - but never tried "miracle" type fluids. Never needed to or wanted to. If that floats your boat, go for it.
bump. fell to page 3
:hyst:
not even winter yet is it did I miss something be careful earl is out there ready to rear his ugly head
maybe we should use deno the sinclare dino instead of earl
Well guys,
I liked the original version, now I'm gonna try this version. It's motorcycle specific, for whatever that's worth. Gonna do a rear tire change, rear pads and oil and filter sometime in the next few weeks. The current batch of LiquiMoly has been in there at least 12K.
Mark
When, if, a lube oil company ever makes an oil that is as superior to every other brand as they'd like you to think it is they will have put all the other lube oil companies out of business.[
PC/size]
REAL SMPLE!
100% synthetic is good!
100% synthetic for $8.75 or less a quart is Excellent!
100% Synthetic that can use from 20*f to 120*f Is Excellent!
Extended oil changes due to a well proven and well tested oil is a bonus!
Quieter and lower temps in some bikes is also a bonus!
Just another option!
:smiled:
If you live in one of these HOT southern states and would like something a little more expensive, with even more protection from heat, better pump up for lifters and a great additive package... TRY Redline 70wt synthetic!
Quote from: Paniolo on September 19, 2016, 03:49:42 PM
Well guys,
I liked the original version, now I'm gonna try this version. It's motorcycle specific, for whatever that's worth. Gonna do a rear tire change, rear pads and oil and filter sometime in the next few weeks. The current batch of LiquiMoly has been in there at least 12K.
Mark
Are you planning on getting a Blackstone report on this oil change? At 12,000, it is considerably more miles than any previous test on this oil in this thread. It would be interesting to see how well it performs at this new higher mark.
14 SGS - Just hit 6000 miles on my first LiquiMoly oil change. I won't be sending an sample for testing. Ive read enough over the year to see that everyone got an excellent report. I can't tell if its quieter, my motor was quieter than most when I got it. No Oil Temp gauge so no idea what it is. The bottom line for me is that, based on many reports, a majority of other users replies are happy, it is as good of an oil that the others out there & it's less expensive than many other oils.
I forgot to ad... I got a 5 ltr bottle off Ebay for $40.18 shipped... $8.00 a ltr.
got my 5 qt jug from napa for 47 + change,engine seems noisier on start up but after up to temp all is well :idunno:
I've been getting it off ebay, 2) 5 liter jugs, for $75.45 ttd, = 10.56 qts @ $7.14 qt.
Going to order some today somewhere to change the oil in the 124 , 38 pages wow just trying to get a good deal on some oil Jim
Got my oil ordered for the new ss 124 . I hear it all of the time don't believe that crap on the internet about this and that , dropped by the Harley shop to show my friends my dyno sheet on the 124 lc . Well I guess a little is true lol . That's how I picked the parts for the street glide this forum and it members helping me . Look forward to using the oil . A fellow on this forum recommended the oil a while back . The trick is knowing who to trust. Jim
Quote from: Schex3x on September 21, 2016, 02:39:47 PM
I've been getting it off ebay, 2) 5 liter jugs, for $75.45 ttd, = 10.56 qts @ $7.14 qt.
:up: and free shipping too. I ordered more than 2 (12 or 3 cases) for 3 bikes. A real fine deal for a decent oil.
Quote from: kd on September 21, 2016, 07:41:10 PM
Quote from: Schex3x on September 21, 2016, 02:39:47 PM
I've been getting it off ebay, 2) 5 liter jugs, for $75.45 ttd, = 10.56 qts @ $7.14 qt.
:up: and free shipping too. I ordered more than 2 (12 or 3 cases) for 3 bikes. A real fine deal for a decent oil.
Thanks that the deal I used never would have know about it other wise . Jim
Quote from: Mountainman streetbob on September 19, 2016, 07:55:12 PM
REAL SMPLE!
100% synthetic is good!
100% synthetic for $8.75 or less a quart is Excellent!
100% Synthetic that can use from 20*f to 120*f Is Excellent!
Extended oil changes due to a well proven and well tested oil is a bonus!
Quieter and lower temps in some bikes is also a bonus!
Just another option!
:smiled:
If you live in one of these HOT southern states and would like something a little more expensive, with even more protection from heat, better pump up for lifters and a great additive package... TRY Redline 70wt synthetic!
this is classic bubbiebob, hilarious! .003 out of round to start with...."100% synthetic is good!" internet writers...gotta love them!
With LM 10w60 , the reports Blackstone said the viscosity at 100° C is 15.8 . With w60 , It should be 24 .
15.8 is the average of a w40 or w50 .
Quote from: louloupa on September 25, 2016, 11:28:41 AM
With LM 10w60 , the reports Blackstone said the viscosity at 100° C is 15.8 . With w60 , It should be 24 .
15.8 is the average of a w40 or w50 .
Is the spec you mention for fresh oil or used oil? If used, how many miles? Thanks.
[attach=0]
As we see, the SAE standard for the 60 @ 100° C is 21.9 min and 26.1 max ( for new oil )
I saw that LM claims in their sheet : 23.8 .
Blackstone says 15.8 . It is low , as a 40 .
bump. threads gettin lost and earls not happy!! :turd:
:chop:
Kendall GT-1 20w50 conventional motor oil, about 45 bucks for 12 quarts, delivered to my door, that comes to $3.75 a quart. ...
http://petroleumservicecompany.com/kendall-gt-1-high-performance-20w50-12-1-quart-case/?utm_medium=googleshopping&utm_source=bc&gclid=CjwKEAiAj7TCBRCp2Z22ue-zrj4SJACG7SBEoQaUeTU6Q9zTRvJTiQHLoAeBYb8kuPXGMfRJyGoQ-BoCbkHw_wcB (http://petroleumservicecompany.com/kendall-gt-1-high-performance-20w50-12-1-quart-case/?utm_medium=googleshopping&utm_source=bc&gclid=CjwKEAiAj7TCBRCp2Z22ue-zrj4SJACG7SBEoQaUeTU6Q9zTRvJTiQHLoAeBYb8kuPXGMfRJyGoQ-BoCbkHw_wcB)
Quote from: Dan89flstc on December 11, 2016, 06:31:16 AM
Kendall GT-1 20w50 conventional motor oil, about 45 bucks for 12 quarts, delivered to my door, that comes to $3.75 a quart. ...
http://petroleumservicecompany.com/kendall-gt-1-high-performance-20w50-12-1-quart-case/?utm_medium=googleshopping&utm_source=bc&gclid=CjwKEAiAj7TCBRCp2Z22ue-zrj4SJACG7SBEoQaUeTU6Q9zTRvJTiQHLoAeBYb8kuPXGMfRJyGoQ-BoCbkHw_wcB (http://petroleumservicecompany.com/kendall-gt-1-high-performance-20w50-12-1-quart-case/?utm_medium=googleshopping&utm_source=bc&gclid=CjwKEAiAj7TCBRCp2Z22ue-zrj4SJACG7SBEoQaUeTU6Q9zTRvJTiQHLoAeBYb8kuPXGMfRJyGoQ-BoCbkHw_wcB)
Yep. Been using it for a long time. Have no reason to change.
Quote from: Ancient on December 11, 2016, 06:58:57 AM
Quote from: Dan89flstc on December 11, 2016, 06:31:16 AM
Kendall GT-1 20w50 conventional motor oil, about 45 bucks for 12 quarts, delivered to my door, that comes to $3.75 a quart. ...
http://petroleumservicecompany.com/kendall-gt-1-high-performance-20w50-12-1-quart-case/?utm_medium=googleshopping&utm_source=bc&gclid=CjwKEAiAj7TCBRCp2Z22ue-zrj4SJACG7SBEoQaUeTU6Q9zTRvJTiQHLoAeBYb8kuPXGMfRJyGoQ-BoCbkHw_wcB (http://petroleumservicecompany.com/kendall-gt-1-high-performance-20w50-12-1-quart-case/?utm_medium=googleshopping&utm_source=bc&gclid=CjwKEAiAj7TCBRCp2Z22ue-zrj4SJACG7SBEoQaUeTU6Q9zTRvJTiQHLoAeBYb8kuPXGMfRJyGoQ-BoCbkHw_wcB)
Yep. Been using it for a long time. Have no reason to change.
Well, you're just going to wreck your engine, you have to run much more expensive synthetic oil!
Quote from: Ancient on December 11, 2016, 06:58:57 AM
Quote from: Dan89flstc on December 11, 2016, 06:31:16 AM
Kendall GT-1 20w50 conventional motor oil, about 45 bucks for 12 quarts, delivered to my door, that comes to $3.75 a quart. ...
http://petroleumservicecompany.com/kendall-gt-1-high-performance-20w50-12-1-quart-case/?utm_medium=googleshopping&utm_source=bc&gclid=CjwKEAiAj7TCBRCp2Z22ue-zrj4SJACG7SBEoQaUeTU6Q9zTRvJTiQHLoAeBYb8kuPXGMfRJyGoQ-BoCbkHw_wcB (http://petroleumservicecompany.com/kendall-gt-1-high-performance-20w50-12-1-quart-case/?utm_medium=googleshopping&utm_source=bc&gclid=CjwKEAiAj7TCBRCp2Z22ue-zrj4SJACG7SBEoQaUeTU6Q9zTRvJTiQHLoAeBYb8kuPXGMfRJyGoQ-BoCbkHw_wcB)
Yep. Been using it for a long time. Have no reason to change.
Just FYI, that's not the old Kendall formula.
http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,82396.msg922188.html#msg922188 (http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,82396.msg922188.html#msg922188)
Brad Penn is the old Kendall oil
Quote from: Ohio HD on December 11, 2016, 07:04:59 AM
Quote from: Ancient on December 11, 2016, 06:58:57 AM
Quote from: Dan89flstc on December 11, 2016, 06:31:16 AM
Kendall GT-1 20w50 conventional motor oil, about 45 bucks for 12 quarts, delivered to my door, that comes to $3.75 a quart. ...
http://petroleumservicecompany.com/kendall-gt-1-high-performance-20w50-12-1-quart-case/?utm_medium=googleshopping&utm_source=bc&gclid=CjwKEAiAj7TCBRCp2Z22ue-zrj4SJACG7SBEoQaUeTU6Q9zTRvJTiQHLoAeBYb8kuPXGMfRJyGoQ-BoCbkHw_wcB (http://petroleumservicecompany.com/kendall-gt-1-high-performance-20w50-12-1-quart-case/?utm_medium=googleshopping&utm_source=bc&gclid=CjwKEAiAj7TCBRCp2Z22ue-zrj4SJACG7SBEoQaUeTU6Q9zTRvJTiQHLoAeBYb8kuPXGMfRJyGoQ-BoCbkHw_wcB)
Yep. Been using it for a long time. Have no reason to change.
Just FYI, that's not the old Kendall formula.
http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,82396.msg922188.html#msg922188 (http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,82396.msg922188.html#msg922188)
Didn't think it was. Kendall brand has been owned by Conoco/Philips for some time.
Quote from: Hossamania on December 11, 2016, 07:03:26 AM
Quote from: Ancient on December 11, 2016, 06:58:57 AM
Quote from: Dan89flstc on December 11, 2016, 06:31:16 AM
Kendall GT-1 20w50 conventional motor oil, about 45 bucks for 12 quarts, delivered to my door, that comes to $3.75 a quart. ...
http://petroleumservicecompany.com/kendall-gt-1-high-performance-20w50-12-1-quart-case/?utm_medium=googleshopping&utm_source=bc&gclid=CjwKEAiAj7TCBRCp2Z22ue-zrj4SJACG7SBEoQaUeTU6Q9zTRvJTiQHLoAeBYb8kuPXGMfRJyGoQ-BoCbkHw_wcB (http://petroleumservicecompany.com/kendall-gt-1-high-performance-20w50-12-1-quart-case/?utm_medium=googleshopping&utm_source=bc&gclid=CjwKEAiAj7TCBRCp2Z22ue-zrj4SJACG7SBEoQaUeTU6Q9zTRvJTiQHLoAeBYb8kuPXGMfRJyGoQ-BoCbkHw_wcB)
Yep. Been using it for a long time. Have no reason to change.
Well, you're just going to wreck your engine, you have to run much more expensive synthetic oil!
Been thinking about getting an empty Amsoil bottle to put it in before I pour it in the bike. Engine will feel better then right?
Quote from: Ancient on December 11, 2016, 07:27:14 AM
Quote from: Hossamania on December 11, 2016, 07:03:26 AM
Quote from: Ancient on December 11, 2016, 06:58:57 AM
Quote from: Dan89flstc on December 11, 2016, 06:31:16 AM
Kendall GT-1 20w50 conventional motor oil, about 45 bucks for 12 quarts, delivered to my door, that comes to $3.75 a quart. ...
http://petroleumservicecompany.com/kendall-gt-1-high-performance-20w50-12-1-quart-case/?utm_medium=googleshopping&utm_source=bc&gclid=CjwKEAiAj7TCBRCp2Z22ue-zrj4SJACG7SBEoQaUeTU6Q9zTRvJTiQHLoAeBYb8kuPXGMfRJyGoQ-BoCbkHw_wcB (http://petroleumservicecompany.com/kendall-gt-1-high-performance-20w50-12-1-quart-case/?utm_medium=googleshopping&utm_source=bc&gclid=CjwKEAiAj7TCBRCp2Z22ue-zrj4SJACG7SBEoQaUeTU6Q9zTRvJTiQHLoAeBYb8kuPXGMfRJyGoQ-BoCbkHw_wcB)
Yep. Been using it for a long time. Have no reason to change.
Well, you're just going to wreck your engine, you have to run much more expensive synthetic oil!
Been thinking about getting an empty Amsoil bottle to put it in before I pour it in the bike. Engine will feel better then right?
Exactly!
Phillips still sells Kendall but it's not the old green oil
Quote from: Ohio HD on December 11, 2016, 07:04:59 AM
Quote from: Ancient on December 11, 2016, 06:58:57 AM
Quote from: Dan89flstc on December 11, 2016, 06:31:16 AM
Kendall GT-1 20w50 conventional motor oil, about 45 bucks for 12 quarts, delivered to my door, that comes to $3.75 a quart. ...
http://petroleumservicecompany.com/kendall-gt-1-high-performance-20w50-12-1-quart-case/?utm_medium=googleshopping&utm_source=bc&gclid=CjwKEAiAj7TCBRCp2Z22ue-zrj4SJACG7SBEoQaUeTU6Q9zTRvJTiQHLoAeBYb8kuPXGMfRJyGoQ-BoCbkHw_wcB (http://petroleumservicecompany.com/kendall-gt-1-high-performance-20w50-12-1-quart-case/?utm_medium=googleshopping&utm_source=bc&gclid=CjwKEAiAj7TCBRCp2Z22ue-zrj4SJACG7SBEoQaUeTU6Q9zTRvJTiQHLoAeBYb8kuPXGMfRJyGoQ-BoCbkHw_wcB)
Yep. Been using it for a long time. Have no reason to change.
Just FYI, that's not the old Kendall formula.
http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,82396.msg922188.html#msg922188 (http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,82396.msg922188.html#msg922188)
delete. im losing my mind!!
Quote from: Ohio HD on December 11, 2016, 07:04:59 AM
Just FYI, that's not the old Kendall formula.
Been in the mechanic game for 46 years, I remember the green stuff...
But I`m satisfied with the newer stuff made by Conoco Phillips. Good lube at a (relatively) good price.
A quart of conventional motor oil shouldn`t cost more than 2.50 in my opinion.
The price of crude went down, but the price of lube oil never did...
I can get Resolute brand oil at the local Fleet Farm for about $2.00 or so, but I'll pay just a bit more for a name brand. Will it work fine? Maybe, but I see that as oil for my lawnmower (not my John Deere) or a car I'm selling.
Quote from: Hossamania on December 11, 2016, 02:25:14 PM
I can get Resolute brand oil at the local Fleet Farm for about $2.00 or so, but I'll pay just a bit more for a name brand. Will it work fine? Maybe, but I see that as oil for my lawnmower (not my John Deere) or a car I'm selling.
Same here. I am not tied to any specific brand but do want a good quality conventional, blended, or full syn in expensive motors.
:speaker:
I put some LONG miles on LiquiMoly 10w60 oil so I would NOT be miss-leading any of the HTT readers... HOT n HOT miles were involved...
I did it for ME mostly as leaving Redline 20/50 n 20/60 was Tough to do...
I have NO problem standing behind this Oil as MY testing was good from Blackstone... (2 reports) one at 4500 miles and one at 6111 miles...
First report on page 11 and Both Combined on Page 23.....
Use what-ever oil you want but at 8 bucks US$ a Liter iF bought @ 5 liter jug... That is 40$ for 5 Liters for a TESTED German Oil for speciality High Dollar Cars n using both Gas n Diesel engines... FULLY Synthetic :nix: THEN finding it off Amazon with free shipping too... :SM:
signed....BUBBIE
Thanks Smarty for your GOOD Report Below......
Quote from: BUBBIE on December 11, 2016, 04:57:24 PM
:speaker:
I put some LONG miles on LiquiMoly 10w60 oil so I would NOT be miss-leading any of the HTT readers... HOT n HOT miles were involved...
I did it for ME mostly as leaving Redline 20/50 n 20/60 was Tough to do...
I have NO problem standing behind this Oil as MY testing was good from Blackstone... (2 reports) one at 4500 miles and one at 6111 miles...
First report on page 11 and Both Combined on Page 23.....
Use what-ever oil you want but at 8 bucks US$ a Liter iF bought @ 5 liter jug... That is 40$ for 5 Liters for a TESTED German Oil for speciality High Dollar Cars n using both Gas n Diesel engines... FULLY Synthetic :nix: THEN finding it off Amazon with free shipping too... :SM:
signed....BUBBIE
I'll have to say, I drank the cool aide ,too Bubbie. The first summer using LQ I went on a 8000 mile trip without changing per your reports. When I got back, I sent mine to Blackstone and they sent back, oil was good to go another 2000 miles. I didn't, but I did do another 7500 mile trip this last summer and got the same report back. I'm good with LQ.
BUBBIE...I don't have any Black Stone reports to offer...but what I do have is an engine that I just pulled the top end apart on that I've only ran 10w60 Liqui Moly in it since it was last apart.
Everything looked brand new still...I mean everything. I'm talking the cam plate, oil pump, rocker arms, rocker supports, etc...nothing showed any signs of wear. I was pretty amazed.
I'm sticking with the 10w60 Liqui Moly! :up:
Ray
Ray,
The parts you put together and your use of LiquiMoly oil then Run them and Check them Often IS MUCH better than any Blackstone report.
Just YOU saying Good Results with No Wear showing on your High Performance Parts, Means a LOT... Members Will and Do respect your opinion... :up:
You Ray, have seen the INSIDE RESULTS where I have mostly only seen the outside LONGEVITY and good results on 2 Blackstone reports... Yes, Mine comes apart Once and a While but with your Bike, You are able to see first hand NO WEAR on parts when you change your build so often... tks...
I am really happy Just Like You, with the LiquiMoly Oils that Brice got US interested in Long Ago... :SM:
signed....BUBBIE
Quote from: No Cents on December 13, 2016, 05:42:43 PM
BUBBIE...I don't have any Black Stone reports to offer...but what I do have is an engine that I just pulled the top end apart on that I've only ran 10w60 Liqui Moly in it since it was last apart.
Everything looked brand new still...I mean everything. I'm talking the cam plate, oil pump, rocker arms, rocker supports, etc...nothing showed any signs of wear. I was pretty amazed.
I'm sticking with the 10w60 Liqui Moly! :up:
Ray
Will you use it to break in your new build?
yes...it's in there now.
Ray
Quote from: Smarty on December 11, 2016, 05:23:14 PM
Quote from: BUBBIE on December 11, 2016, 04:57:24 PM
:speaker:
I put some LONG miles on LiquiMoly 10w60 oil so I would NOT be miss-leading any of the HTT readers... HOT n HOT miles were involved...
I did it for ME mostly as leaving Redline 20/50 n 20/60 was Tough to do...
I have NO problem standing behind this Oil as MY testing was good from Blackstone... (2 reports) one at 4500 miles and one at 6111 miles...
First report on page 11 and Both Combined on Page 23.....
Use what-ever oil you want but at 8 bucks US$ a Liter iF bought @ 5 liter jug... That is 40$ for 5 Liters for a TESTED German Oil for speciality High Dollar Cars n using both Gas n Diesel engines... FULLY Synthetic :nix: THEN finding it off Amazon with free shipping too... :SM:
signed....BUBBIE
I'll have to say, I drank the cool aide ,too Bubbie. The first summer using LQ I went on a 8000 mile trip without changing per your reports. When I got back, I sent mine to Blackstone and they sent back, oil was good to go another 2000 miles. I didn't, but I did do another 7500 mile trip this last summer and got the same report back. I'm good with LQ.
:SM: :up: :up: :SM: :baby: :agree:
Quote from: No Cents on December 13, 2016, 05:42:43 PM
BUBBIE...I don't have any Black Stone reports to offer...but what I do have is an engine that I just pulled the top end apart on that I've only ran 10w60 Liqui Moly in it since it was last apart.
Everything looked brand new still...I mean everything. I'm talking the cam plate, oil pump, rocker arms, rocker supports, etc...nothing showed any signs of wear. I was pretty amazed.
I'm sticking with the 10w60 Liqui Moly! :up:
Ray
NOW this is a true test! LOL :SM:
:SM: :up: :up: :SM: :agree: :baby:
Quote from: BUBBIE on December 13, 2016, 09:01:37 PM
Ray,
The parts you put together and your use of LiquiMoly oil then Run them and Check them Often IS MUCH better than any Blackstone report.
Just YOU saying Good Results with No Wear showing on your High Performance Parts, Means a LOT... Members Will and Do respect your opinion... :up:
You Ray, have seen the INSIDE RESULTS where I have mostly only seen the outside LONGEVITY and good results on 2 Blackstone reports... Yes, Mine comes apart Once and a While but with your Bike, You are able to see first hand NO WEAR on parts when you change your build so often... tks...
I am really happy Just Like You, with the LiquiMoly Oils that Brice got US interested in Long Ago... :SM:
signed....BUBBIE
Thanks Bubbie!
I am just glad that we have found a suitable affordable option for long mileage oil changes...
AND
We get to test it in multiple environments!
With 40 pages i don't want to read them all right now but but how does it perform in the primary?i ride a 94 electra glide ultra if that matters. From what i did read i am ordering it no matter what for the engine but it would be nice to use the extra quart in the primary
Quote from: fatboysh on March 16, 2017, 01:25:11 AM
With 40 pages i don't want to read them all right now but but how does it perform in the primary?i ride a 94 electra glide ultra if that matters. From what i did read i am ordering it no matter what for the engine but it would be nice to use the extra quart in the primary
This thread has been around for a hella long time but I don't remember anyone bringing that up before. Course I'm lucky to remember where I put my glasses down.
Quote from: Smarty on June 19, 2016, 06:23:43 AM
I run it in the primary with no problem.
Page 37 it's discussed
I wouldn't.
Engine oil belongs in the "engine".
Transmission oil belongs in the "transmission"
and
Primary oil belongs in the "primary".
Never the twain shall meet. :gob: :up:
Ok.i here so much about people running mobil 1 in all three so i thought i would ask. I did buy redline for the tranny though. Any suggestions on what primary oil to use
Personally, with the abuse the compensator takes I would run some sort of gear lube, never engine oil. I run HD Formula +, but about any gear lube will do.
Stay tuned to get 47 more opinions! :hyst:
I figured i opened a can of worms
My Pro Clutch likes type F tranny fluid, old style compensator. The new one gets Formula+ for now.
only 47 :scratch:
Mobil 1 syn ATF with 4 oz. of Lubeguard highly friction modified ATF supplement.
:soda:
Quote from: No Cents on December 13, 2016, 05:42:43 PM
BUBBIE...I don't have any Black Stone reports to offer...but what I do have is an engine that I just pulled the top end apart on that I've only ran 10w60 Liqui Moly in it since it was last apart.
Everything looked brand new still...I mean everything. I'm talking the cam plate, oil pump, rocker arms, rocker supports, etc...nothing showed any signs of wear. I was pretty amazed.
I'm sticking with the 10w60 Liqui Moly! :up:
Ray
How many miles Ray? :scratch:
Does anybody know the zinc and phosphorus levels of the LiquiMoly 10w-60 ? I've been running it since the early days of this thread but I add a little zddp. :scratch:
Quote from: FSG on March 17, 2017, 12:26:28 PM
only 47 :scratch:
It's spring, real bikers are getting ready to ride. They don't have time to hang out here!
Quote from: PoorUB on March 18, 2017, 12:35:30 PM
Quote from: FSG on March 17, 2017, 12:26:28 PM
only 47 :scratch:
It's spring, real bikers are getting ready to ride. They don't have time to hang out here!
Just getting ready!!?? WTF!
I've been riding all winter - always have every year. Definitely not spending $32K+ and then storing it for 5 months every year. Although it's not as bad as buying a boat in Chicago. :)
Quote from: GARYD on March 20, 2017, 06:27:11 AM
It's spring, real bikers are getting ready to ride. They don't have time to hang out here!
Just getting ready!!?? WTF!
I've been riding all winter - always have every year. Definitely not spending $32K+ and then storing it for 5 months every year. Although it's not as bad as buying a boat in Chicago. :)
[/quote]
Some of us deal with snow, ice and road salt. If we get a winter with no snow I will ride all winter. I am not in love with ice and snow on the road and avoid it when I can. Once I road about 10 miles in 3-4 inches of snow with more coming down. Also rode up Beartooth Pass with a couple inches of snow on the road so I am not afraid of it.
I don't ride if there's snow/ice on the roads. I wait till the roads are dry. Having a TG is not a problem, but for the 2 wheelers that ride with me, I won't put them in harms way, so dry roads for us.
As for the salt, I use S100 Corrosion Protectant on the whole bike(excluding the rotors). Come April I hose it off and ride away with a sparkling clean, corrosion free bike. Have for over 10 years and still no rust/corrosion.
S100 is a miracle product. :up:
I don't understand the concept of buying a vehicle, car/boat/snowmobile/motorcycle and then store it away for 5 to 6 months every year. It boggles the mind. :)
Hard to use a boat when the lakes are frozen. Hard to ride a snowmobile in the summer. Most don't ride motorcycles in the winter. And I know a lot of people that don't ride in the Spring until we get two or three good rainstorms to wash the salt off the road. I've got one friend that barely gets 800 miles a year on his bike. I don't approve.
Quote from: PoorUB on March 17, 2017, 12:01:10 PM
Personally, with the abuse the compensator takes I would run some sort of gear lube, never engine oil. I run HD Formula +, but about any gear lube will do.
Stay tuned to get 47 more opinions! :hyst:
One in agreement with the gear lube. :up: Only 46 left now. Cracks me up. 90% don't even understand the metal to metal action in the comp , yet have the perfect lube for it. It sure as hell isn't engine oil, ATF even worse. :potstir:
Ron
Quote from: rbabos on March 23, 2017, 07:09:42 AM
Quote from: PoorUB on March 17, 2017, 12:01:10 PM
Personally, with the abuse the compensator takes I would run some sort of gear lube, never engine oil. I run HD Formula +, but about any gear lube will do.
Stay tuned to get 47 more opinions! :hyst:
One in agreement with the gear lube. :up: Only 46 left now. Cracks me up. 90% don't even understand the metal to metal action in the comp , yet have the perfect lube for it. It sure as hell isn't engine oil, ATF even worse. :potstir:
Ron
I agree 100%. The primary needs two different types of fluid. One to oil the compensator properly, the other to make the clutch plates friction zone do what they do best without grabbing. Lube made for this works tons better than engine oil. I know the nay sayers that have used 20w50 with no problems, except with wearing out a compensator or two. Before Harley started a "Potty mouth" storm with the SE SYN 3, there wasn't this big debate about what to use.
Quote from: Hossamania on March 22, 2017, 08:52:41 PM
Hard to use a boat when the lakes are frozen. Hard to ride a snowmobile in the summer. Most don't ride motorcycles in the winter. And I know a lot of people that don't ride in the Spring until we get two or three good rainstorms to wash the salt off the road. I've got one friend that barely gets 800 miles a year on his bike. I don't approve.
Exactly my point. And to some extent - Corvettes (I had 2) and other performance cars - the owners don't drive them in the winter either - or if it rains. :) I did have to drive mine because it was my only car. Wasn't fun though.
S100 CP takes care of the salt problem = that's not an excuse anymore.
I probably should have started using that S100CP about 17 years ago. Oh well.
Quote from: GARYD on March 20, 2017, 06:27:11 AM
Just getting ready!!?? WTF!
I've been riding all winter - always have every year. Definitely not spending $32K+ and then storing it for 5 months every year.
I try to ride as much as I can although I have never actually ridden on a snowy road.
I had a business partner that was a little more hard core than me however, he once road a 1948 Indian Chief all year round (working full time) in an upstate NY Winter because he didn't own a car at the time.
~John
Well I cant believe I never saw this post before this morn since its been going on for 3 years LOL. I have to keep things simple so I just run 20w-50w in all three holes as HD said too. I have switched it up on other bikes(gear oil,trans fluid,etc) and never seen any difference or extra wear so I decided on these to just run 20w-50w across the board changing at required service times. That way i can keep 1 jug in bag on bike and if I need can usually always find along the road. I have been stuck needing some gear oil along the road and ended up having to dump the gear and go to 20/50 anyway on road cuz i couldnt find gear oil.
I have came to the conclusion that whether using conventional or syn oil the most important things are clean, free flowing and an "abundance of" oil to motor is most important. I think the oils of today are all equally advanced and if changing them as necessary the few minor differences in designs will make little to no impact on the motor, trans, or primary inners. Since whatever blood is flowing if it will be clean and functioning properly as long as I don't get lazy and not change as I should....just my 02 cents worth...Jer
I am not a fan of motor oil in the transmission. It has gears, and should have gear lube. I know oil is probably ok in the tranny, just not for me.
While traveling, I have never needed to add transmission fluid or primary fluid. Actually, I have never added transmission or primary fluid between changes.. If it is leaking that bad, it should be repaired.
I am using the Valvoline 20/50 syn also, I like it because it was cheap!
Quote from: rbabos on March 23, 2017, 07:09:42 AM
Quote from: PoorUB on March 17, 2017, 12:01:10 PM
Personally, with the abuse the compensator takes I would run some sort of gear lube, never engine oil. I run HD Formula +, but about any gear lube will do.
Stay tuned to get 47 more opinions! :hyst:
One in agreement with the gear lube. :up: Only 46 left now. Cracks me up. 90% don't even understand the metal to metal action in the comp , yet have the perfect lube for it. It sure as hell isn't engine oil, ATF even worse. :potstir:
Ron
Be gentle with me guys. :embarrassed:
If I am reading you two right your saying formula + is a gear lube?
Any gear lube such as Mobil 75-90 or personal choice would work in the primary?
Makes sense in the transmission since gear oil is tackier or clings better.
School me. :hug:
Gear lube is for higher pressure, high friction sliding parts like gear teeth, and in the case of a HD, compensator ramps.
Yes, Formula + is gear lube.
It says it right on the jug. "Formula + - Transmission and Primary case Lubricant"
Is ATF a high pressure gear lube????
My F-150 calls for ATF in the manual transmission.
:wtf: :scratch:
QuoteEngine oil belongs in the "engine".
Transmission oil belongs in the "transmission"
and
Primary oil belongs in the "primary".
QuoteIs ATF a high pressure gear lube????
My F-150 calls for ATF in the manual transmission.
What about all the bikes on the road that for years had/have a common oil source for engine, transmission and primary? I had a ford car with a manual transmission that specified ATF. I also had a car with a manual transmission that specified 10W40 in the transmission. And I have run ATF in my FLHT primary before...it works fine and some aftermarket clutch manufacturers recommend it. I have settled on formula 1 for the transmission and primary cause I believe it is good, mobil1 15W50 because I believe it is good and is cheap and K&N filters because I believe they are good, even if they are made in Thailand and have no micron rating. This seems to be the MOTHER of all oil threads
Quote from: smoserx1 on March 26, 2017, 05:42:45 AM
QuoteEngine oil belongs in the "engine".
Transmission oil belongs in the "transmission"
and
Primary oil belongs in the "primary".
QuoteIs ATF a high pressure gear lube? ???
My F-150 calls for ATF in the manual transmission.
What about all the bikes on the road that for years had/have a common oil source for engine, transmission and primary? I had a ford car with a manual transmission that specified ATF. I also had a car with a manual transmission that specified 10W40 in the transmission. And I have run ATF in my FLHT primary before...it works fine and some aftermarket clutch manufacturers recommend it. I have settled on formula 1 for the transmission and primary cause I believe it is good, mobil1 15W50 because I believe it is good and is cheap and K&N filters because I believe they are good, even if they are made in Thailand and have no micron rating. This seems to be the MOTHER of all oil threads
True enough, I owned a Kaw 125 inch V-Twin once, it used 20w50, or 10w40 to lube everything, motor, clutch, primary, and transmission.
How long would a 6 speed HD trans last with ATF? Anyone care to test this, that claim ATF as being the almighty do all lube? :hyst: In most cases claims to be able to use ATF in a manual gear box is for fuel economy reasons because the gear box is stout enough to hold up in normal use. It still isn't the best lube for the task.
Ron
GM/Allison Transynd would work but nobody in the HD community would try it or endorse it. Plus would have to pull in the clutch and wait 30 seconds for the trans to stop spinning to get into gear
Quote from: rbabos on March 26, 2017, 07:05:10 AM
How long would a 6 speed HD trans last with ATF?
Ron
It would probably last just fine, but the noise complaints would go through the roof. :potstir:
Truth is about 90% of riders never put on enough miles to matter, any oil would be fine in any of the three holes if all you ride is a a couple thousand miles a year, or if you never get on the throttle. For the guys that ride, put on miles and want the motorcycle to hold together for some years and/or miles, run gear lube in the appropriate holes.
:speaker:
Just three things to Remember in our Big Twins... You'll Not Go Wrong.....
You already Know MY Choices...
Diesel or Air-cooled Engine Oil proper weight for Temps...
75W80 GL-4 Primary Gear oil
Transmission SAE 75W250, GEAR OIL...
signed....BUBBIE
http://www.ebay.com/itm/10W60-Liqui-Moly-Race-Tech-GT1-Synthetic-Motor-Oil-for-BMW-M3-M5-M6-Z3-M-Z4-M-Z8-/361316689704?hash=item5420272728:g:g2AAAOSwu4BVwfp5&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/10W60-Liqui-Moly-Race-Tech-GT1-Synthetic-Motor-Oil-for-BMW-M3-M5-M6-Z3-M-Z4-M-Z8-/361316689704?hash=item5420272728:g:g2AAAOSwu4BVwfp5&vxp=mtr)
This the right Oil ? Been using Redline 20-60 for years never had a problem, Price keeps going up, Looking at this oil for a cheaper good oil.
Quote from: HDDOC on March 27, 2017, 08:43:00 AM
http://www.ebay.com/itm/10W60-Liqui-Moly-Race-Tech-GT1-Synthetic-Motor-Oil-for-BMW-M3-M5-M6-Z3-M-Z4-M-Z8-/361316689704?hash=item5420272728:g:g2AAAOSwu4BVwfp5&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/10W60-Liqui-Moly-Race-Tech-GT1-Synthetic-Motor-Oil-for-BMW-M3-M5-M6-Z3-M-Z4-M-Z8-/361316689704?hash=item5420272728:g:g2AAAOSwu4BVwfp5&vxp=mtr)
This the right Oil ? Been using Redline 20-60 for years never had a problem, Price keeps going up, Looking at this oil for a cheaper good oil.
Yes manufacturers #2024 also available at Amazon or NAPA. That's the places I know.
I used it one season, didn't see any difference from Amsoil, HD 360, Redline, Mystik jt8, Supertech, all in X-50 weight.
My go to this year will be Valvoline conventional 20w50.
My tranny on flurry. And dyna are both quieter, shift smoother with red line 85w or higher or bel ray 85w or higher, the 20/50 and straight 50 weight oils I tried were especially loud in summer heat.
Why would you use conventional oil?
These TC's get hot, Not criticizing, just curious.
Quote from: K4FXD on March 27, 2017, 11:00:51 AM
Why would you use conventional oil?
These TC's get hot, Not criticizing, just curious.
Because the Motor Company said Syn3 was fine for the transmission. I'm not sure if they still recommend that, but they sure did a few years ago.
I thought he said he was going to put conventional Valvoline 20-50 in the engine.
I'm too stupid to figure out how to quote.
With the heat we get here I'd have to change the oil once every month if I used conventional
I live in Cincinnati, gets hot here too.... :missed:
I ran conventional oils in HD's starting in 1979, till about 2005, never saw the need to change the oil every month. Unless you sit for long periods in hot traffic, conventional oil will be fine for most motors. Riding style, higher compression (meaning hotter running) etc. may dictate that synthetic is better for the motor. For most, not an issue.
Quote from: K4FXD on March 27, 2017, 11:59:31 AM
I thought he said he was going to put conventional Valvoline 20-50 in the engine.
I'm too stupid to figure out how to quote.
With the heat we get here I'd have to change the oil once every month if I used conventional
Many reasons really. I don't mind changing oil and for the price of the synthetic I could change it four times with conventional Valvoline motorcycle 20w50 from Walmart at $4 per quart, two times compared to liqui-moly. Secondly the Valvoline motorcycle 20w50 held up better than most synthetics in the Amsoil testing. Third the virgin oil analysis and used oil analysis show that the Valvoline conventional motorcycle 20w50 is better than Harley Davidsons 360 oil. Fourth the Valvoline conventional motorcycle 20w50 is a motorcycle oil not a car oil, and yes I know all the debate about we don't need a motorcycle oil in a Harley Davidson non-shared. 5 I tried the liquid Molly 10w60 last year for a full season and didn't see any difference in that than any other oil I tried. 6 I like to experiment. More so just to stick with a motorcycle rated oil that doesn't cost an arm and a leg to use. My only big concern with heat is when I go to Sturgis every year for two weeks. If it wasn't for that I would never have considered the synthetics to begin with. Most of my riding is open highway riding hardly any parade riding and the only parade riding would be Sturgis.
Quote from: BUBBIE on March 26, 2017, 04:07:03 PM
:speaker:
Just three things to Remember in our Big Twins... You'll Not Go Wrong.....
You already Know MY Choices...
Diesel or Air-cooled Engine Oil proper weight for Temps...
75W80 GL-4 Primary Gear oil
Transmission SAE 75W250, GEAR OIL...
signed....BUBBIE
This, this is my thinking also and the reason I question the any gear oil in the primary. I question the any gear oil in the primary statement from others due to the friction modifiers in most gl5 gear oil. I totally agree with the compensator needs a gear oil type fluid. I know a lot about oils and lubricating fluid just not enough about the friction modifiers in a gear lube to recommend it in a wet clutch operation.
I wish my riding was mostly open highway. I get stuck in traffic just about everytime I ride.
The road to my house is posted 45 but rarely get over 30 due to traffic.
Quote from: K4FXD on March 27, 2017, 03:46:26 PM
I wish my riding was mostly open highway. I get stuck in traffic just about everytime I ride.
The road to my house is posted 45 but rarely get over 30 due to traffic.
Fargo is our largest city in North Dakota and I live 110 miles from there. :up:
65 miles to a big city (for ND) is Grand Forks.
There are advantages to living in BFE. LOL.
for the price of the synthetic I could change it four times with conventional Valvoline motorcycle 20w50 from Walmart at $4 per quart,
[/quote]
Why do double the work? I'd rather be out riding instead of constantly changing oil. If I used dino oil, I'd have to change my oil at least 5 times a year.
In the long run the price is the same if not a little cheaper using syn. Less oil, less time and labor, less filters, less land fill.
You're right about syn being better protection against high temps in the engine.
If the 10-60 liquimoly oil is cheaper and easy to get I will give it a chance. Redline is up in price and takes a week to get. Thanks just wanted to make sure I got the right oil.
Quote from: GARYD on March 28, 2017, 06:47:40 AM
for the price of the synthetic I could change it four times with conventional Valvoline motorcycle 20w50 from Walmart at $4 per quart,
Why do double the work? I'd rather be out riding instead of constantly changing oil. If I used dino oil, I'd have to change my oil at least 5 times a year.
In the long run the price is the same if not a little cheaper using syn. Less oil, less time and labor, less filters, less land fill.
You're right about syn being better protection against high temps in the engine.
[/quote]
I totally understand what you are saying and for some people that is a very valid point. My situation is a little different I am Force retired so labor time has no influence on me. I don't believe in going past 3000 miles on an air-cooled engine no matter what oil you're using. If the oil filter can go five to six thousand miles according to the owner's manual I don't bother changing the filter but every other time. I love to crank wrenches and Tinker and changing the oil is actually an enjoyment for me. Got to have something to do on rainy days. I have free lifetime oil changes on my new pickup but I do the oil changes myself I go to the dealership get their oil filter and oil and change it. :teeth: Everybody situation is different and this just gives me an old maintenance guy something to do.
Quote from: pwr2tow on March 29, 2017, 09:14:13 AM
Quote from: GARYD on March 28, 2017, 06:47:40 AM
for the price of the synthetic I could change it four times with conventional Valvoline motorcycle 20w50 from Walmart at $4 per quart,
Why do double the work? I'd rather be out riding instead of constantly changing oil. If I used dino oil, I'd have to change my oil at least 5 times a year.
In the long run the price is the same if not a little cheaper using syn. Less oil, less time and labor, less filters, less land fill.
You're right about syn being better protection against high temps in the engine.
I totally understand what you are saying and for some people that is a very valid point. My situation is a little different I am Force retired so labor time has no influence on me. I don't believe in going past 3000 miles on an air-cooled engine no matter what oil you're using. If the oil filter can go five to six thousand miles according to the owner's manual I don't bother changing the filter but every other time. I love to crank wrenches and Tinker and changing the oil is actually an enjoyment for me. Got to have something to do on rainy days. I have free lifetime oil changes on my new pickup but I do the oil changes myself I go to the dealership get their oil filter and oil and change it. :teeth: Everybody situation is different and this just gives me an old maintenance guy something to do.
[/quote]
I understand that completely. I say the same thing on why I do my own changes = because I have the time(sometimes) not always. If you are retired, I know you have the time, but do you have enough money to (in my opinion) waste on needless oil changes? I have no pension or IRA and only SS so I have to save as much money as I can and syn oil does that for me. Allows me to double or even triple my change intervals. So far I have had no oil related engine problems with the extended changes.
I understand the peace of mind changing oil (syn or dino) every 3K miles gives you. That is what I say about my extended warrantee and prepaid service plan = peace of mind.
Good luck.
3,000 mile oil change? I have run up to 7,500 a few times and it didn't bother me one bit. For me it is time and disposal. Less oil to dispose and one or two less oil filters in the land fill. Plus Blackstone says my oil is still good at 7,500 miles.
Quote from: No Cents on August 06, 2014, 05:44:53 PM
from what I've been told by my friend that works at Valvoline in their testing lab is that conventional oil breaks down by 240*...while a full synthetic oil wont begin to break down until it reaches temperatures over 400*.
They test oil everyday in this lab.
I told him this spring I was going to try their VR1 60wt conventional racing oil in my bike this summer...he said don't...use their VR1 20w50 because is was from synthetic base stock and the VR1 60wt was not. He said he wouldn't run a conventional oil in these T/C engines because if you get stuck in traffic one time on a hot day...the oil more than likely needs to be drained because it doesn't take but only a few minutes at 240* for conventional oil to lose almost all it's viscosity. He said if the oil temp reaches 240*...it will drain out like water. He said stick with synthetic.
I showed him the Liqui Moly 10w60 I was using. He took a little sample with him to work at his lab and came back with...I like that oil a lot and it should be more that satisfactory in your bike...even in the hottest summer months.
Ray
This post is from 2014. :doh:
Damn you guys, now I'm going to have to return the Valvoline Motorcycle 20w50. :gob:
Looks like Amazon is getting another order for Liqui Moly 10w60. :chop:
Now what am I going to do on rainy days? :emoGroan:
Simple. :beer: :soda:
Amazon has it the cheapest 38$ 5 liters
Quote from: No Cents on December 13, 2016, 05:42:43 PM
BUBBIE...I don't have any Black Stone reports to offer...but what I do have is an engine that I just pulled the top end apart on that I've only ran 10w60 Liqui Moly in it since it was last apart.
Everything looked brand new still...I mean everything. I'm talking the cam plate, oil pump, rocker arms, rocker supports, etc...nothing showed any signs of wear. I was pretty amazed.
I'm sticking with the 10w60 Liqui Moly! :up:
Ray
Not trying to start anything just would like more information.
Was it new parts you installed before this tear down?
How many miles on that top end when you tore it down this time?
Have you put it back together and did you reuse all the parts or install new ones?
Thanks,
Ron
Quote from: pwr2tow on March 31, 2017, 12:24:03 PM
Quote from: No Cents on December 13, 2016, 05:42:43 PM
BUBBIE...I don't have any Black Stone reports to offer...but what I do have is an engine that I just pulled the top end apart on that I've only ran 10w60 Liqui Moly in it since it was last apart.
Everything looked brand new still...I mean everything. I'm talking the cam plate, oil pump, rocker arms, rocker supports, etc...nothing showed any signs of wear. I was pretty amazed.
I'm sticking with the 10w60 Liqui Moly! :up:
Ray
Not trying to start anything just would like more information.
Was it new parts you installed before this tear down?
How many miles on that top end when you tore it down this time?
Have you put it back together and did you reuse all the parts or install new ones?
Thanks,
Ron
Not trying to be a smart ass but I'm guessing by your post count you may have missed the "let the cat out of the bag" thread. Take a day off work and search the thread on this site. :hyst: You will learn lots and answer your own question.
Quote from: kd on March 31, 2017, 01:31:21 PM
Quote from: pwr2tow on March 31, 2017, 12:24:03 PM
Quote from: No Cents on December 13, 2016, 05:42:43 PM
BUBBIE...I don't have any Black Stone reports to offer...but what I do have is an engine that I just pulled the top end apart on that I've only ran 10w60 Liqui Moly in it since it was last apart.
Everything looked brand new still...I mean everything. I'm talking the cam plate, oil pump, rocker arms, rocker supports, etc...nothing showed any signs of wear. I was pretty amazed.
I'm sticking with the 10w60 Liqui Moly! :up:
Ray
Not trying to start anything just would like more information.
Was it new parts you installed before this tear down?
How many miles on that top end when you tore it down this time?
Have you put it back together and did you reuse all the parts or install new ones?
Thanks,
Ron
Not trying to be a smart ass but I'm guessing by your post count you may have missed the "let the cat out of the bag" thread. Take a day off work and search the thread on this site. :hyst: You will learn lots and answer your own question.
4891 posts!!! NO THANK YOU.
I read too f'n slow, I'll be dead before I even learned the meaning, if I even knew what I'm looking for. :emoGroan:
:hyst: :hyst: :hyst: Ya, but it is a fantastic read. Do it in short spurts when you have time. :up:
Since I can't get answers to my questions and more so I'm not done experimenting I'm going to stick with my original plan. $4.00 Valvoline conventional motorcycle 20w50 even beats some synthetics, good enough for me for the next 3,000-5,000 miles.
Quote from: pwr2tow on March 31, 2017, 12:24:03 PM
Quote from: No Cents on December 13, 2016, 05:42:43 PM
BUBBIE...I don't have any Black Stone reports to offer...but what I do have is an engine that I just pulled the top end apart on that I've only ran 10w60 Liqui Moly in it since it was last apart.
Everything looked brand new still...I mean everything. I'm talking the cam plate, oil pump, rocker arms, rocker supports, etc...nothing showed any signs of wear. I was pretty amazed.
I'm sticking with the 10w60 Liqui Moly! :up:
Ray
Not trying to start anything just would like more information.
Was it new parts you installed before this tear down?
How many miles on that top end when you tore it down this time?
Have you put it back together and did you reuse all the parts or install new ones?
Thanks,
Ron
sorry...I will answer your questions.
yes...I put in new roller rocker arms, along with new rocker arm shafts, and new SE rocker arm supports before I pulled it down this last time.
I put like 5K miles on that combo last summer...and all the above mentioned parts went right back in to it this last time except I changed the rocker arm ratio on my intakes back to 1.625 and I actually put in a set of slightly used rollers on the intakes. All the parts looked like new when I pulled it down to change the heads out this time...and yes...the bike is up and running.
Ray
Quote from: No Cents on April 01, 2017, 09:47:27 AM
Quote from: pwr2tow on March 31, 2017, 12:24:03 PM
Quote from: No Cents on December 13, 2016, 05:42:43 PM
BUBBIE...I don't have any Black Stone reports to offer...but what I do have is an engine that I just pulled the top end apart on that I've only ran 10w60 Liqui Moly in it since it was last apart.
Everything looked brand new still...I mean everything. I'm talking the cam plate, oil pump, rocker arms, rocker supports, etc...nothing showed any signs of wear. I was pretty amazed.
I'm sticking with the 10w60 Liqui Moly! :up:
Ray
Not trying to start anything just would like more information.
Was it new parts you installed before this tear down?
How many miles on that top end when you tore it down this time?
Have you put it back together and did you reuse all the parts or install new ones?
Thanks,
Ron
sorry...I will answer your questions.
yes...I put in new roller rocker arms, along with new rocker arm shafts, and new SE rocker arm supports before I pulled it down this last time.
I put like 5K miles on that combo last summer...and all the above mentioned parts went right back in to it this last time except I changed the rocker arm ratio on my intakes back to 1.625 and I actually put in a set of slightly used rollers on the intakes. All the parts looked like new when I pulled it down to change the heads out this time...and yes...the bike is up and running.
Ray
Thanks Ray for getting back.
Love this stuff, I just ordered 4 more 5 liter bottles from Amazon.
I have used nothing but redline for years & will continue to use HD Shockproof in my 6 speed tranny & MTL in my primary, but this is my go to engine oil now for 2 bikes/3 cars/1 small motorhome & a ZT lawnmower LOL
~John
It would be my go to oil if Valvoline full syn 20/50 wasn't $6 per quart at the local Fleet Farm this week... Picked up 12 qts.
:agree:....Ditto.
Jer
Just ordered a jug.
I put rock outs in my TC and now I hear a lifter coming and going. Hope the oil will solve it. I want to ride, not wrench.
:chop:
If you're looking for oil that quiets things down, syn is not your friend. Try Spectro 25-60 dino oil, it's the best in that regard that I have found.
I tried LM and dumped it in short order, I'm not the only one here with that experience..... YMMV.
Quote from: Rockout Rocker Products on April 02, 2017, 10:38:16 PM
If you're looking for oil that quiets things down, syn is not your friend. Try Spectro 25-60 dino oil, it's the best in that regard that I have found.
I tried LM and dumped it in short order, I'm not the only one here with that experience..... YMMV.
I have noticed that Amsoil makes a little more noise than the Valvoline, same with Royal Purple, which I haven't used in years. The noise doesn't bother me too much, I know it is quality oil.
Amsoil was $12 per quart. Valvoline was $6.
I've been running the Liqui-Moly for over 2 years now with about 25,000 miles and love it. Don't really see any difference in noise from Amsoil, Redline, or any other synthetic.
Quote from: Hossamania on April 03, 2017, 05:04:59 AM
Quote from: Rockout Rocker Products on April 02, 2017, 10:38:16 PM
If you're looking for oil that quiets things down, syn is not your friend. Try Spectro 25-60 dino oil, it's the best in that regard that I have found.
I tried LM and dumped it in short order, I'm not the only one here with that experience..... YMMV.
I have noticed that Amsoil makes a little more noise than the Valvoline, same with Royal Purple, which I haven't used in years. The noise doesn't bother me too much, I know it is quality oil.
Amsoil was $12 per quart. Valvoline was $6.
Is that Valvoline $6/qt. oil motorcycle specific oil or automotive oil?????
Having been an Amsoil dealer, I paid $6/qt for auto oil and $9.56/qt for V-Twin oil. Plus I got a percentage back on the sale.
FYI. Amsoil's 25K/1 year syn oil would have cost me $8.50/qt. if I would have taken a chance on it. Which I wouldn't.
Quote from: GARYD on April 04, 2017, 06:19:26 AM
Quote from: Hossamania on April 03, 2017, 05:04:59 AM
Quote from: Rockout Rocker Products on April 02, 2017, 10:38:16 PM
If you're looking for oil that quiets things down, syn is not your friend. Try Spectro 25-60 dino oil, it's the best in that regard that I have found.
I tried LM and dumped it in short order, I'm not the only one here with that experience..... YMMV.
I have noticed that Amsoil makes a little more noise than the Valvoline, same with Royal Purple, which I haven't used in years. The noise doesn't bother me too much, I know it is quality oil.
Amsoil was $12 per quart. Valvoline was $6.
Is that Valvoline $6/qt. oil motorcycle specific oil or automotive oil?????
Having been an Amsoil dealer, I paid $6/qt for auto oil and $9.56/qt for V-Twin oil. Plus I got a percentage back on the sale.
FYI. Amsoil's 25K/1 year syn oil would have cost me $8.50/qt. if I would have taken a chance on it. Which I wouldn't.
The Valvoline is 20w/50 full syn Racing Oil. Technically made for auto engines, but like the Mobile One 15/50 that many use here, meets the needs of Moto motors.
And it's blue so I can see it on the stick, and can tell which spot on the floor is motor oil as opposed to the tranny or primary oil spots...
The Valvoline I got was 20w/50 full syn motorcycle oil.
Jer
I have a feeling the motorcycle oil and the racing oil are the same blend. Now I have to look to see what mine says on the bottle.
Quote from: Hossamania on April 04, 2017, 09:45:14 AM
I have a feeling the motorcycle oil and the racing oil are the same blend. Now I have to look to see what mine says on the bottle.
Look closely at the fine print, I did. It says, for you cheap asses, this is the perfect blend of oil and price. :hyst: :hyst: :hyst:
Quote from: Smarty on April 05, 2017, 04:25:09 AM
Quote from: Hossamania on April 04, 2017, 09:45:14 AM
I have a feeling the motorcycle oil and the racing oil are the same blend. Now I have to look to see what mine says on the bottle.
Look closely at the fine print, I did. It says, for you cheap asses, this is the perfect blend of oil and price. :hyst: :hyst: :hyst:
Right where I fit in.
Quote from: Hossamania on April 04, 2017, 09:45:14 AM
I have a feeling the motorcycle oil and the racing oil are the same blend.
LOL I agree.
It may be labeled differently, but I bet the contents are the same. This is retail 101.
It's kinda like buying a hot water heater with a 5 year or 10 year warranty. They are the exact same product, with different labeling.
~John
Quote from: Smarty on April 05, 2017, 04:25:09 AM
Quote from: Hossamania on April 04, 2017, 09:45:14 AM
I have a feeling the motorcycle oil and the racing oil are the same blend. Now I have to look to see what mine says on the bottle.
Look closely at the fine print, I did. It says, for you cheap asses, this is the perfect blend of oil and price. :hyst: :hyst: :hyst:
So, it is a BLEND! LOL
Also, "it's a perfect blend of oil and price"???? In other words they don't use the best ingredients?? Amsoil says they "Use the best ingredients regardless of the cost. Hmmmmmmmm.
No matter what all the propaganda says, I'll use any brand name motorcycle specific syn oil I can buy when it's on sale.
Correct. All decisions are economic. The very reason this thread was started.
Quote from: Hossamania on April 05, 2017, 06:19:10 AM
Correct. All decisions are economic. The very reason this thread was started.
Sure, but the only reason the thread progresses is because the previous poster didn't have a clue what he is talking about! :fish: :hyst:
Quote from: PoorUB on April 05, 2017, 08:02:27 AM
Quote from: Hossamania on April 05, 2017, 06:19:10 AM
Correct. All decisions are economic. The very reason this thread was started.
Sure, but the only reason the thread progresses is because the previous poster didn't have a clue what he is talking about! :fish: :hyst:
That's usually me!
It is now....
This is what I bought....Jer
Quote from: jerite on April 05, 2017, 10:31:13 AM
This is what I bought....Jer
For $6 a quart, I hope you bought extra for a few oil changes. What color is the oil? The racing stuff I've got is blue.
Quote from: jerite on April 05, 2017, 10:31:13 AM
This is what I bought....Jer
Good oil. Long live your engine
Just saw a commercial on TV last night - ready for this?? Mobil1 1year/25K mile syn oil. Once again Mobil copies Amsoil with a new product. Amsoil has had a 1yr/25K oil for many years.
Still not going to try it. I'm sticking with 6K changes - bike and cars.
So I change my oil and refill with a jug of this liquimoly and now my temps are up over my norm . I have use a lot of brands of oils over the years dino and synt temps will range from 210-215 but this Moly stuff is 225-230. So how am I suppose to view this ? is it pulling more heat out of the motor? or is the motor running hotter with this stuff? suppose to run cooler with synthetics right?
Quote from: GARYD on April 07, 2017, 06:09:49 AM
Just saw a commercial on TV last night - ready for this?? Mobil1 1year/25K mile syn oil. Once again Mobil copies Amsoil with a new product. Amsoil has had a 1yr/25K oil for many years.
Still not going to try it. I'm sticking with 6K changes - bike and cars.
I'll stick with 5,000 mi changes regardless unless I am doing regular oil analysis like I did when I was running class 8 diesel trucks.
Quote from: tmwmoose on April 13, 2017, 02:12:18 PM
So I change my oil and refill with a jug of this liquimoly and now my temps are up over my norm . I have use a lot of brands of oils over the years dino and synt temps will range from 210-215 but this Moly stuff is 225-230. So how am I suppose to view this ? is it pulling more heat out of the motor? or is the motor running hotter with this stuff? suppose to run cooler with synthetics right?
If it is an efi bike you could do data logs on the engine temp and see if that is the same or lower.
Quote from: 1FSTRK on April 13, 2017, 06:10:23 PM
Quote from: tmwmoose on April 13, 2017, 02:12:18 PM
So I change my oil and refill with a jug of this liquimoly and now my temps are up over my norm . I have use a lot of brands of oils over the years dino and synt temps will range from 210-215 but this Moly stuff is 225-230. So how am I suppose to view this ? is it pulling more heat out of the motor? or is the motor running hotter with this stuff? suppose to run cooler with synthetics right?
If it is an efi bike you could do data logs on the engine temp and see if that is the same or lower.
Its a 02 FLHT carbed
This bump is for BUBBIE. Thanks for this. :beer: :sad:
:chop:
:up:
Yeah, thanks Bubbie, Only oil I will use in my Roadglide now. New build, first trip, 3500 miles or so, not a drop off where I put it on the dipstick. Very pleased and it still looks clear.
Where can a deal be had on this oil, preferably online?
Quote from: HD Street Performance on May 10, 2017, 08:27:13 AM
Where can a deal be had on this oil, preferably online?
Don, search ebay for it. Park one in your watch list and then search similar items from there. You will be surprised at the difference in prices but will be able to chose the least expensive seller. Most are free shipping and quick. I bought a couple of 4 / 5 L jug cases at a time. I was actually paying a lot less than the folks that were using Amazon and some ebayers.
Finally changed to this magic oil.
First impression is it is very good, engine is quieter. At least my lifter tapping went away. The gear sound is a bit louder. I'd rather hear it whirrrr than tap.
If anything changes Ill repost
Any thoughts on this oil would work in the primary?
Quote from: topcat3815 on June 01, 2017, 02:08:38 AM
Any thoughts on this oil would work in the primary?
http://www.harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?topic=75005.msg1057422#msg1057422 (http://www.harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?topic=75005.msg1057422#msg1057422)
FWIW, I was reading German forum today and they were discussing Meguin Megol Racer 10W60 oil. Company Meguin was established in 1847 and bought by Liqui Moly in 2006.
Wondering if this Megol Racer 10W60 is same product as Synthoil 10W60.
(http://pim.meguin.de/media/documents/2273/thumbnail_detail_1393927026740_ctx-1.jpg)
It's price in Europe is half of Synthoil.
I've been using this oil for a couple of years now, I wonder if it is what broke my AV&V valve spring.
No
Quote from: r0de_runr on September 26, 2017, 09:15:30 AM
I've been using this oil for a couple of years now, I wonder if it is what broke my AV&V valve spring.
Valve springs could care less about oil unless left out in the rain.
Ron
Quote from: rbabos on September 27, 2017, 02:07:02 PM
Quote from: r0de_runr on September 26, 2017, 09:15:30 AM
I've been using this oil for a couple of years now, I wonder if it is what broke my AV&V valve spring.
Valve springs could care less about oil unless left out in the rain.
Ron
I know, it just pisses me off. I pay a good respected shop to give me a valve job and put in AV&V springs to head off potential problems with my 110. It was over $1100 in preventative work.
I swap out my lifters at each rear tire change.
And what happens. Going on 50 days now no bike.
I am seriously considering switching to this stuff for my HD. I have an '18 Scout that calls for 15W60.Hard to get and expensive. I was checking out Liqui=moly for this also but am wondering about the clutch. I see they claim "saves energy".I wonder if that means I cant use it? Any suggestions?
I doubt it would hurt the clutch on your Scout.
Does the Scout share the primary with the engine, unit construction style?
Quote from: Hossamania on September 30, 2017, 05:04:40 PM
Does the Scout share the primary with the engine, unit construction style?
Yes it does. This is all new to me,I havnt had anything but HD's since '71.
Quote from: rideflhr on September 30, 2017, 10:00:40 AM
I am seriously considering switching to this stuff for my HD. I have an '18 Scout that calls for 15W60.Hard to get and expensive. I was checking out Liqui=moly for this also but am wondering about the clutch. I see they claim "saves energy".I wonder if that means I cant use it? Any suggestions?
Check to see if it has a JASO rating on the label, otherwise don't use it for the clutch.
Ron
Meanwhile, along with Mobil 1 syn ATF in the primary, I add 4 onces of Lubeguard highly friction modified ATF supplement. No issues @ 109/119
Is the friction modifier thing really an issue :idunno:
Quote from: Rockout Rocker Products on October 01, 2017, 07:36:09 AM
Meanwhile, along with Mobil 1 syn ATF in the primary, I add 4 onces of Lubeguard highly friction modified ATF supplement. No issues @ 109/119
Is the friction modifier thing really an issue :idunno:
I used Valvoline VR1 Synthetic 20W50 (the blue stuff) in my 09 Ultra Primary and it caused the clutch to slip.
This may have been addressed in the previous 44 pages, but has anyone determined a difference between the 20-50 for cars and 20-50 for motorcycles?
A royal purple rep quoted to me the only difference in there 20w50 oil is the bike formula has more zinc. Im just quoting what I was told.
Quote from: topcat3815 on October 19, 2017, 02:07:24 PM
A royal purple rep quoted to me the only difference in there 20w50 oil is the bike formula has more zinc. Im just quoting what I was told.
Interesting,....I wonder what extra zinc does? Is it better for air cooled engines than water cooled engines? Or is it so they can raise the price $5.00?
Quote from: Paniolo on October 19, 2017, 03:40:30 PM
Quote from: topcat3815 on October 19, 2017, 02:07:24 PM
A royal purple rep quoted to me the only difference in there 20w50 oil is the bike formula has more zinc. Im just quoting what I was told.
Interesting,....I wonder what extra zinc does? Is it better for air cooled engines than water cooled engines? Or is it so they can raise the price $5.00?
Zinc is considered to be an effective anti-wear additive... they recommended/used high levels of zinc in the old days with solid lifter engines...
It is also supposed to mess up the CAT on emissions vehicles, so today's vehicle manufacturers will spec a low zinc oil for warranty/emissions purposes...
I'm not a chemist, so I don't have tests to quote from to support any of this, just what I have read...
I wouldn't be concerned to use the automotive version of the LiquiMoly or any other quality oil. There are only piston rings to cylinders, valves to guides, a few bushings, and roller bearings in an HD motor. Just needs good oil of the proper viscosity.
Quote from: hattitude on October 19, 2017, 04:01:13 PM
Quote from: Paniolo on October 19, 2017, 03:40:30 PM
Quote from: topcat3815 on October 19, 2017, 02:07:24 PM
A royal purple rep quoted to me the only difference in there 20w50 oil is the bike formula has more zinc. Im just quoting what I was told.
Interesting,....I wonder what extra zinc does? Is it better for air cooled engines than water cooled engines? Or is it so they can raise the price $5.00?
Zinc is considered to be an effective anti-wear additive... they recommended/used high levels of zinc in the old days with solid lifter engines...
It is also supposed to mess up the CAT on emissions vehicles, so today's vehicle manufacturers will spec a low zinc oil for warranty/emissions purposes...
I'm not a chemist, so I don't have tests to quote from to support any of this, just what I have read...
You guys shouldn't use oil with extra zinc. Right? You all have cats in your exhaust system just like it came from the factory? :potstir:
I can't believe I have finally finished reading this whole thread. I have put Shock Proof in the trans. HD says Syn 3 in all three holes but I don't agree. I will probably use Liquid Moly in the engine next change. $8 at NAPA. Formula + or equivalent in the primary. All from what I have read here. Thanks for all the info. :emoGroan:
kk
How many of the original adopters and proponents of Liqui-Moly 10W60 are still using it?
QuoteI will probably use Liquid Moly in the engine next change.
that'll put a smile on Lonnies dial :up: :SM:
I use it still awesome oil. Bob
:agree: and reasonably priced for a full syn that has been proven for use in Harley V Twin engines with Blackstone oil testing.
Long time user of Mobil 1 20w-50 syn. Was always skeptical of the Liqui Moly rage. I decided to try the Liqui Moly 10w-60 this year just to see. Bike has run quieter & also cooler surprisingly. I won't be going back to Mobil 1.
Quote from: Bagger on July 11, 2020, 07:10:29 PM
How many of the original adopters and proponents of Liqui-Moly 10W60 are still using it?
I'm still using it in the engine. Never had any issues. Using that HD branded BelRey tranny fluid in the tranny, and good old Formula + in the primary (usually).
Quote from: klammer76 on July 11, 2020, 08:26:28 PM
Long time user of Mobil 1 20w-50 syn. Was always skeptical of the Liqui Moly rage. I decided to try the Liqui Moly 10w-60 this year just to see. Bike has run quieter & also cooler surprisingly. I won't be going back to Mobil 1.
Are you running the 10W60 during the fall, winter and spring in your area of the colder northeast?
RodeRunr-HD Branded Bel-Ray?????? Pretty sure it's not BelRay, I'm real good friends with the Nat'l Sales Mgr of Bel-Ray
Last I checked(albeit 3-4 yrs ago) Citgo still has the HD contract
Quote from: FSG on July 11, 2020, 07:15:41 PM
QuoteI will probably use Liquid Moly in the engine next change.
that'll put a smile on Lonnies dial :up: :SM:
Two of three gone now. :emsad:
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Quote from: Bagger on July 12, 2020, 04:48:11 AM
Quote from: klammer76 on July 11, 2020, 08:26:28 PM
Long time user of Mobil 1 20w-50 syn. Was always skeptical of the Liqui Moly rage. I decided to try the Liqui Moly 10w-60 this year just to see. Bike has run quieter & also cooler surprisingly. I won't be going back to Mobil 1.
Are you running the 10W60 during the fall, winter and spring in your area of the colder northeast?
I just put it in this spring and will run it into the fall. Don't ride in the snow.
Still using Liquimoly in my Harley.
I put the 10w60 Liqui Moly in my engine at every oil change. I'm sold on it. It works excellent for me. :up:
I have it in my '13 FLTRU motor that has cams, lifters, intake, & pipe. Very happy with it.
09 Dyna has had a lot of work on the mill so I have been running 20W-50 Drag but I'm a couple thousand miles and 2 oil changes so I'll be going to the LiquiMoly in it also.
So where's the current good deal source for the Liqui-Moly?
Quote from: cheech on July 13, 2020, 07:25:47 PM
So where's the current good deal source for the Liqui-Moly?
I search ebay and watch the prices. I found it at $38 for a 5 liter jug (free shipping and bought a couple of cases of 4 jugs(maybe 3) at a time for my 3 bikes. It looks like it may be a bit more now unless you keep watching for a better deal like I did.
Here's one listed now ...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Liqui-Moly-10W-60-Fully-Synthetic-RaceTech-Motor-Oil-2024-LM2024/123927258955?hash=item1cdaa3e74b:g:A6QAAOSwQp5dlfYQ
Thread 6 years old, Wow. I planned on trying it but never got around to it. Had bought a whole lot of Redline 20-60 several years ago at a real good price, and now need oil. So while seeing this thread again, just realized Bubbie is no longer with us. Enjoyed his enthusiasm, and good attitude despite some knocks he took. In his memory, going to give it a go. Just ordered a couple jugs, thanks for the link, kd. RIP Bubbie.
Amazon has it for $47.
I have bought it at NAPA, but the local store looked at me blankly when I told them what I wanted, then the looked it up on their computer and they had it stock, but nobody remembered seeing it. They dug through their stock on found a couple dusty jugs of it. Apparently not a hot seller for them!
I have been using the 10-60 for a few yrs now. Bike seems to run cooler and a slight improved gas millage. I use it all yr long here in Va.
I've been using this for a few years now for my and all my friends bikes. Seems good to me. $165 plux tax for 20 litres.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00G4UI52U/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
This last Dec, at the International Motorcycle Show in Mpls (I know it is overpriced but winter is long up here) there was a display and rep manning it for LiquiMoly. He asked if I had ever heard of it. I told him I have been using it for 4 or 5 years. He then started pitching me all the " special types" they offer for different types of bikes.
I have not seen these special products anywhere else. I buy mine online and in 4 jug cases. Big outlay at the time but it doesn't spoil
They are big at SEMA too. I got lots of merch from them too. :hyst:
Still using it in my two softails....
Just put a 124" S&S crate engine in my bagger, that calls for 20W50... Since it's still under warranty, I was thinking of trying 20W50 Motul 7100 in that engine to conform with warranty guidlines...
I have no issues with the Liqui-moly 10W60, especially here in the hot S/W... but I've read all good, and nothing bad, about Motul oils.. A bud of mine drives a big rig for a racing team, Motul is all they use...
Quote from: Bagger on July 12, 2020, 04:48:11 AM
Quote from: klammer76 on July 11, 2020, 08:26:28 PM
Long time user of Mobil 1 20w-50 syn. Was always skeptical of the Liqui Moly rage. I decided to try the Liqui Moly 10w-60 this year just to see. Bike has run quieter & also cooler surprisingly. I won't be going back to Mobil 1.
Are you running the 10W60 during the fall, winter and spring in your area of the colder northeast?
Riding season is done here now. Running the Liqui Moly in colder fall temps was a non issue. I was skeptical for years but tried this stuff last spring. I'm sold on it.
I get mine on ebay for $47 delivered. I run the 10-60 in all my bikes
I did not realize I was out so I also ordered from Amazon a couple 5 qt jugs. I like to keep the oil changed out in my Bikes . Its a decent investment on the motors and want to make give them every chance to last . Its pretty nice to remove the drain plug and find nothing on the magnet or any thing on the bottom of the drain pan . I appreciate any good deal posted