The starting routine that seems to working is about 5 full on twists of throttle and no enricher partial or fully up on the lever.
S and S E shorty. .295, 70, 1 & 3/4 mixture, 2 on acc. Pump.
Cleaned enricher circuit.
One it starts idles great. Starts ez when warm, runs good. Lifting enrichment lever only makes things worse
Don't know if the mild .440 cam or solid lifter inserts are variables when starting. Readjusted pushrods to no play light finger roll.
Any suggestions or accept it for what it is individual AMF motor? :fish:
Have tried running a compression check when cold?
You say that it Starts, Idles Great, and Runs Good with Your method.
Just My opinion...but I'd leave it alone and enjoy it.
The only suggestion that I will offer is to try only 2-3 or less twists on the Throttle before starting.
I have never liked using a Choke/Enrichener to start a Bike or a Street Rod if I didn't have to.
My Snowblower and Chain Saws are a different story.
Quote from: Fugawee on January 24, 2023, 09:18:23 AMYou say that it Starts, Idles Great, and Runs Good with Your method.
Just My opinion...but I'd leave it alone and enjoy it.
The only suggestion that I will offer is to try only 2-3 or less twists on the Throttle before starting.
I have never liked using a Choke/Enrichener to start a Bike or a Street Rod if I didn't have to.
My Snowblower and Chain Saws are a different story.
Sounds like it has a cold start issue.
Quote from: Hossamania on January 24, 2023, 08:52:04 AMHave tried running a compression check when cold?
Thanks Hoss will read manual and give it a go.
Quote from: Hossamania on January 24, 2023, 09:34:22 AMQuote from: Fugawee on January 24, 2023, 09:18:23 AMYou say that it Starts, Idles Great, and Runs Good with Your method.
Just My opinion...but I'd leave it alone and enjoy it.
The only suggestion that I will offer is to try only 2-3 or less twists on the Throttle before starting.
I have never liked using a Choke/Enrichener to start a Bike or a Street Rod if I didn't have to.
My Snowblower and Chain Saws are a different story.
Sounds like it has a cold start issue.
Fugawee, Thanks, For now tempted to follow Murphey's law, it is still winter here, A couple of suggestions are a cold compression test and spraying around the intake. This bike took a long nap or two since 1980,
Runs great once started.
Does it have the original electronic ignition, or has someone added points and condenser over the years? If points, check the gap, try a new condenser, etc. Check the condition of the spark plugs. Also see if they're wet from fuel when it won't start right up. Did you try a shot of gas or starting fluid into the carburetor when cold?
Just performed CCR test results are 150 front 140 rear throttle wide open.
How does that sound?
With the throttle wide open?
Quote from: Ohio HD on January 24, 2023, 11:39:19 AMWith the throttle wide open?
Thanks Ohio wide open throttle.
Yep.
Quote from: Ohio HD on January 24, 2023, 10:41:05 AMDoes it have the original electronic ignition, or has someone added points and condenser over the years? If points, check the gap, try a new condenser, etc. Check the condition of the spark plugs. Also see if they're wet from fuel when it won't start right up. Did you try a shot of gas or starting fluid into the carburetor when cold?
Brand new Dyna 2000i. Just installed, rotated until red led light just turns off. Static timed. The 42 year old
V Fire II was actually fine. It fires right off on starting fluid when I was first getting it running.
Quote from: flhs90 on January 24, 2023, 12:28:53 PMQuote from: Ohio HD on January 24, 2023, 11:39:19 AMWith the throttle wide open?
Thanks Ohio wide open throttle.
Yep.
The compression sounds right for a Shovel.
Quote from: flhs90 on January 24, 2023, 12:32:06 PMBrand new Dyna 2000i. Just installed, rotated until red led light just turns off. Static timed. The 42 year old
V Fire II was actually fine. It fires right off on starting fluid when I was first getting it running.
If it fires right off with starting fluid, I would maybe look at the float height setting. Also the needle and seat to make sure it does shut off the fuel flow when the carburetor bowl is full of fuel. It should start right up when it's cold with the enrichener on. I suspect that with the enrichener on, and possibly the float setting is allowing too much fuel into the bowl. In that situation it could be flooding the motor.
Food for thought. The shovels in their oem form did not have accelerator pumps. Twisting the throttle a few times prior to kicking it over had no effect. Most shovels with their points and their non accelerator pump carbs would kick over on the first or second kick.
Your shovel with a Super E carb and a modern ignition should easily fire wit the need to twist the throttle to give prime the cylinders.
Has been a long time since I tuned a shovel. Just going by my hazy memory, the low speed jet you are currently using seems little small to me.
Your ignition module being static timed, might not be right. I forget exactly where the timing marks are at on shovel and evo wheels. I think both wheels have markings that indicate top dead center and 40 degree for the front cylinder and evo wheels have the same markings except 35 degrees for front timing.
You may have set the timing using the wrong timing mark. Maybe not, but worth verifying. I recommend using a dial back timing light to set the initial timing and then after dialing it by how well it runs and then use that light determine where the initial timing is set to.
Also, if the bike is setup to use a VOES, it needs to be reconfigured for use with a timing light and reconfigured back to use the VOES. Using a VOES is subject of great debate, often times approaching 'Taste Great vs Less Filling' status all based on very incorrect information.
End state, that bike a Super E, modern electronic ignition w/VOES and dialed correctly should be very easy to start and run very smooth. Something is not set right. The carb will initially be blamed but the real culprit is often times the ignition system.
Best of luck with your project.
Ohio and Turboprop those ideas are what I hoped to generate from this topic.
All my work so far has resulted in a lot of appreciation for this piece of HD history, The trouble shooting help appreciated. Thanks.
Quote from: flhs90 on January 24, 2023, 08:26:05 AMThe starting routine that seems to working is about 5 full on twists of throttle and no enricher partial or fully up on the lever.
S and S E shorty. .295, 70, 1 & 3/4 mixture, 2 on acc. Pump.
Cleaned enricher circuit.
One it starts idles great. Starts ez when warm, runs good. Lifting enrichment lever only makes things worse
Don't know if the mild .440 cam or solid lifter inserts are variables when starting. Readjusted pushrods to no play light finger roll.
Any suggestions or accept it for what it is individual AMF motor? :fish:
When I put an S&S E on my shovel the instructions for starting stated 2 twist of throttle, pull enrichener up, throttle closed. No more than 2 squirts at cold start. Mine starts better than it ever did and I have had it since 78. Stock carb did have an acellertaor pump. I ran a S&S B carb for 30 years it didn't have accel pump.
Quote from: flhs90 on January 24, 2023, 08:26:05 AMThe starting routine that seems to working is about 5 full on twists of throttle and no enricher partial or fully up on the lever.
S and S E shorty. .295, 70, 1 & 3/4 mixture, 2 on acc. Pump.
On enrichment pump. Is that 2 turns back from screw touching? Have you visually watched this spray. I would assume each twist doesn't give it that much fuel. What is the temp of engine when you say it is idling great without any enrichment? If it is cold. I would get bike to operating temps and readjust idle mixture. If end result is turning screw in half turn. Enrichment might be needed for cold start. How I always did mine. As soon as I got to my bike. I wicked throttle twice. Then power, CR's , fuel, enrichment, start.
FWIW....my 1980 FXE...last of 74" when new... upped to 84" S&S kit...and points ign....always started well whichever carb it had....the original Keihen? had accel pump modified as per Easyriders Tech Tips back in the day if I recall correctly....but never took more than 1 primer pump on the throttle and then full(when cold) choke/enrichener....but as soon as it starts the enrichener has to be opened full to stay running.....just have to hold idle up briefly....I do carry a small longish screwdriver to adjust idle as needed.....if it gets good and hot I can set the idle down a bit....
i would have ignition on off kick it once then turn ignition on and kick it always started with my b carb
Quote from: brent on January 25, 2023, 11:07:37 AMi would have ignition on off kick it once then turn ignition on and kick it always started with my b carb
ign on or off ? enricher on ?
off then on
Thanks, I am going to turn accelerator pump off, check float level, pull air cleaner give one twist and observe spray. Grandkids here now will report back. Have full list of suggestions to try.
Quote from: flhs90 on January 26, 2023, 07:41:34 AMThanks, I am going to turn accelerator pump off, check float level, pull air cleaner give one twist and observe spray. Grandkids here now will report back. Have full list of suggestions to try.
Take the breather off and observe it as is first. One twist and the number of twists you use to start it. This will give you a base point so any changes you make will have relevance.
I have often used the full on choke / enrichener before cranking with my finger on the lever so to speak. As soon as the engine makes a revolution I snap the choke / enrichener off while holding the throttle just cracked a titch and I get a fire. The engine is now pulling a rich mix at the start but doesn't need it to run because the intake is fully flowing and pulling fuel. This depends on correct float level so the fuel is at the nozzle ready to go and low speed circuit settings to enable the pick up of the fuel mix at cranking speed and early idle speeds.
Quote from: brent on January 25, 2023, 03:49:19 PMoff then on
with the b carb mine has to have the choke on with no throttle
Quote from: david lee on January 26, 2023, 12:53:23 PMwith the b carb mine has to have the choke on with no throttle
Exactly, otherwise you lean out the fuel charge immediately.
Ohio, I gained some ground today.
Turned accelerator pump screw off or closed position.
Got out the starting fluid. Bike started immediately. With air cleaner off and throttle twist no spray of fuel. Petcock open. Will pull carb and clean again, ran good for 400 miles, go figure.
why not just press the button
Quote from: flhs90 on January 26, 2023, 05:50:34 PMOhio, I gained some ground today.
Turned accelerator pump screw off or closed position.
Got out the starting fluid. Bike started immediately. With air cleaner off and throttle twist no spray of fuel. Petcock open. Will pull carb and clean again, ran good for 400 miles, go figure.
There won't be any spray if you have the accelerator pump turned off.
Hoss, yes just confirmed that., no fuel when acc. pump screw turned all the way in. Opened it one turn. Fuel on twist lots of it. Sprays a strong squirt. Lifted enrichener still no start.. Thing to learn from is that it starts first hit on starting fluid. Leaning on pulling carb off and checking float level.
Quote from: flhs90 on January 27, 2023, 05:38:39 PMHoss, yes just confirmed that., no fuel when acc. pump screw turned all the way in. Opened it one turn. Fuel on twist lots of it. Sprays a strong squirt. Lifted enrichener still no start.. Thing to learn from is that it starts first hit on starting fluid. Leaning on pulling carb off and checking float level.
have you checked the pilot jet is clear
As Hoss said. My is ig iff inricher on twist twice (this cold weather) kick through both cylinders once. Bring to comp stroke turn ign on very slight throttle just enough to crack butterfly. Fires straight up. If this fails shut enricher turn off ign and kick through to clean chambers. You say you have idle mixture at 1 3/4 out you may try a 31 intermediate if the 29.5 is clean. But thats nit picking. My tunes sometimes will start if on comp stroke by just touching kicker with Boot
Quote from: JSD on January 27, 2023, 10:02:20 PMAs Hoss said. My is ig iff inricher on twist twice (this cold weather) kick through both cylinders once. Bring to comp stroke turn ign on very slight throttle just enough to crack butterfly. Fires straight up. If this fails shut enricher turn off ign and kick through to clean chambers. You say you have idle mixture at 1 3/4 out you may try a 31 intermediate if the 29.5 is clean. But thats nit picking. My tunes sometimes will start if on comp stroke by just touching kicker with Boot
i had that happen to me started with next to no pressure on the kicker
OK this starting issue is getting sorted. Rechecked timing with the new electronic ignition. Returned carb to allow motor to idle at 950 RPMS warm.
Wanted to try more turns out on the pump went to 3 out from seated, wow, bike fires right off. Have a new basic rebuild kit from S & S to replace my pump diaphram, Check balls, o rings and springs. Some great clues along the way and I tried them all, one at time, provided in this topic are teaching me what to look for. Everyone helped believe me. Thanks all. Shovel wants a good dose of fuel to bark off and the pump short on delivery. It fires first hit of Starting fluid, float level ht. within spec 1/8-3/16 below lip of bowl, Timing on. Cross your fingers.
Happy to report motor starts easily now. Went completely back through the Super E carb and installed new needle, pump diaphragm, o rings, check balls, and all is good in shovel land.
When we get a sunny day and conditions allow I can give the bike a good road test. It may have been overkill but put some fresh oil in the bag just in case any condensation or fuel dilution from my efforts. Enrichener circuit works as is supposed to although I prefer the thumb screw for warm-ups. Very happy as you might guess. Thanks all who helped.
My tune without AFR is 1 & 3/4 mixture, 2 turns out on the pump, .295 and 70 main.
:gob: Will use that fuel diluted oil for bar oil in the Saws if you haven't noticed with the war on oil bar oil is off the $ charts. Anybody got some extra red dye? :oil: