Hi all- You guys who have installed the rocker lockers what is your input? Do they seem to work? Do you notice a quieter top end than before?
Go to the vendor section and read the posts. You can also use the search feature and enter in Rocker Lockers. :wink:
I installed them April 2017. can't say the engine sounds any different.
on the other hand what could be bad about stopping the shaft from going back n forth against the bolt.
cheap money, can't hurt, maybe it will quiet things down if you have that issue..
As KD said, there is a lot of info there and on you tube..
Tried them no difference hear, they don't hurt nothing maybe one day I will get a surprise, but so far nothing.
They worked well on my '02. :up:
Quote from: motorhogman on February 24, 2020, 07:16:46 AM
I installed them April 2017. can't say the engine sounds any different.
on the other hand what could be bad about stopping the shaft from going back n forth against the bolt.
cheap money, can't hurt, maybe it will quiet things down if you have that issue..
As KD said, there is a lot of info there and on you tube..
this ^^^
for the money, why not put them in anything you have apart?
I at first thought the lockers made a difference. Then I found it was my new helmet. :nix:
Karl
Have a look at the rocker shafts and the rocker bolts.
Can you see the witness marks from them rattling to and fro?
If you can, you need them.
My Sportster top-end made a nasty loud terminal and expensive sounding noise.
Fit Rocker Lockers and the noise is gone.
Yes you could see the marks on the rocker shaft and the bolt where the rocker shaft had been moving to and fro.
Are they in my TC too?
No.
The top-end is quiet, but the next time I have any reason to go in there the set I bought as insurance get fitted!
They work good for me, and I highly recommend them. I prefer the Rockout Rocker Products version. :chop:
They never did anything on either of my twincams.
I cut slots in the end of my rocker shafts with a dremel, so I could try moving them with a slot screwdriver.
One of the rocker shafts fit tight and there wasn't enough room for a rocker locker.
One more fit well with the rocker locker installed.
The others were so loose, that even with the rocker lockers I could still move the shafts back and forth with a screwdriver (with rocker bolts installed).
My solution, was to rotate the shafts 180 degrees and cut a new much smaller relief in the shaft.
Start small and work your way up until the rocker shaft bolt will just fit through with the shaft installed.
I suspect that some folks have bikes that the shafts are so loose that the rockers don't do anything.
If you don't cut slots on the ends of the shaft to try moving them how would you know they are tight?
My bike still makes the same annoying ticking noise, but at least I know the shafts are tight.
I can also take it apart anytime I want without destroying a set of lockers.
Before the rocker devices were available some of us drilled our rocker stands and used grub screws to lock the shafts in place. That ensured they didn't move and it's how I did mine. It was as we were all discussing this on HTT that the first set of brass inserts were made with .30 cal cases. The rockouts were born and very few people use the screws now.
FWIW I bought a batch of them from John and gave them to others that needed them. One dealer couldn't believe how it solved one problem they were dealing with.
Have a look around my website.... lots of answers there :up:
Quote from: kd on February 24, 2020, 04:31:49 PM
Before the rocker devices were available some of us drilled our rocker stands and used grub screws to lock the shafts in place. That ensured they didn't move and it's how I did mine. It was as we were all discussing this on HTT that the first set of brass inserts were made with .30 cal cases. The rockouts were born and very few people use the screws now.
FWIW I bought a batch of them from John and gave them to others that needed them. One dealer couldn't believe how it solved one problem they were dealing with.
still use the set screws here & have for many years.valve train noise can come from many different causes.if the noise is caused by the shafts,this will help,but is not the "cure all" some seem to think it is
Quote from: prodrag1320 on February 25, 2020, 04:34:38 AM
still use the set screws here & have for many years.valve train noise can come from many different causes.if the noise is caused by the shafts,this will help,but is not the "cure all" some seem to think it is
Rockout rocker shaft kits target a specific noise from a specific source, and are 100% effective at doing that. They never claim to be a "cure all". If the noise is from another source it will need other measures.
Lots of people like to rewrite history. I made my discovery, and the cure public in a post on 7-11-15. The news traveled very quickly all over the world, as it WAS news.
I have yet to see anyone point to a post they made before that date
saying the noise came from the rocker shafts rocking against the bolts, and/or that they had a cure for it, whether by pinning, set screwing, welding, praying or any other means. If you have one please post a link. How long you may or may not have been doing something for other reasons is irrelevant.
Quote from: Rockout Rocker Products on February 25, 2020, 08:16:39 PM
Quote from: prodrag1320 on February 25, 2020, 04:34:38 AM
still use the set screws here & have for many years.valve train noise can come from many different causes.if the noise is caused by the shafts,this will help,but is not the "cure all" some seem to think it is
Rockout rocker shaft kits target a specific noise from a specific source, and are 100% effective at doing that. They never claim to be a "cure all". If the noise is from another source it will need other measures.
Lots of people like to rewrite history. I made my discovery, and the cure public in a post on 7-11-15. The news traveled very quickly all over the world, as it WAS news.
I have yet to see anyone point to a post they made before that date saying the noise came from the rocker shafts rocking against the bolts, and/or that they had a cure for it, whether by pinning, set screwing, welding, praying or any other means. If you have one please post a link. How long you may or may not have been doing something for other reasons is irrelevant.
I've used them, they kill the bolt clinking against the shafts. If you setup the valve train with proper clearances from the lifters to the rocker arms, then these will add to the results quite well.
Quote from: Rockout Rocker Products on February 25, 2020, 08:16:39 PM
Quote from: prodrag1320 on February 25, 2020, 04:34:38 AM
still use the set screws here & have for many years.valve train noise can come from many different causes.if the noise is caused by the shafts,this will help,but is not the "cure all" some seem to think it is
Rockout rocker shaft kits target a specific noise from a specific source, and are 100% effective at doing that. They never claim to be a "cure all". If the noise is from another source it will need other measures.
Lots of people like to rewrite history. I made my discovery, and the cure public in a post on 7-11-15. The news traveled very quickly all over the world, as it WAS news.
I have yet to see anyone point to a post they made before that date saying the noise came from the rocker shafts rocking against the bolts, and/or that they had a cure for it, whether by pinning, set screwing, welding, praying or any other means. If you have one please post a link. How long you may or may not have been doing something for other reasons is irrelevant.
They are somewhat less than 100% effective, kind of a hit and miss.
If you install a Rockout, how do you know the shaft can't rock anymore?
On my 2006 RK, I installed a set and just left it at that. ( no reduction in noise, but who knows what was causing the noise if the first place)
On my 2016 RK, I cut slots in the end of the rocker shafts so I could try moving them with a screwdriver after installation of the rockouts.
The results were, 1 was too tight for a Rockout and I left it out, 1 fit perfectly and there was no movement.
2 were still so loose that the shaft moved almost as much with the rockout as it did without it.
Quote from: Rockout Rocker Products on February 25, 2020, 08:16:39 PM
Quote from: prodrag1320 on February 25, 2020, 04:34:38 AM
still use the set screws here & have for many years.valve train noise can come from many different causes.if the noise is caused by the shafts,this will help,but is not the "cure all" some seem to think it is
Rockout rocker shaft kits target a specific noise from a specific source, and are 100% effective at doing that. They never claim to be a "cure all". If the noise is from another source it will need other measures.
Lots of people like to rewrite history. I made my discovery, and the cure public in a post on 7-11-15. The news traveled very quickly all over the world, as it WAS news.
I have yet to see anyone point to a post they made before that date saying the noise came from the rocker shafts rocking against the bolts, and/or that they had a cure for it, whether by pinning, set screwing, welding, praying or any other means. If you have one please post a link. How long you may or may not have been doing something for other reasons is irrelevant.
As I previously stated, I was one that followed the procedure back in 2015 (along with Max and some others) and drilled the rocker stands from underneath for grub screws. You (and another member?) at that time appeared to be working on the bushings back then. I never said I figured it out or was part of it. The bushings are a great alternative for the less skilled at doing it the way some of us did it. In fact, You sold me a lot of 10 kits that I "gave away" at my expense to some Canadian indies , a dealer friend and a couple of others to use on problematic "tappers" and told them where to get more (to your benefit) .
As to you're statement that you and you alone figured this out, I suggest that just because someone didn't post on line about the problem, it doesn't mean they didn't know about it before you. I can tell you that in July or August of 2015, I personally had a conversation with a highly respected head porter with a lifetime of experience (that was doing my heads and also known to be highly credible) that when I mentioned it, he chuckled and said that when he found it years ago (because of the marks on the bolts) he was calling them the "Oregon O's". You should be able to guess who that was from that statement. :wink:
I don't doubt that you may have discovered this problem on your own but I feel you should be prepared to consider that someone just may have come before you and chose not to talk about it. You can see that because you have been open about your manufactured fix that others have rushed in to copy it and cash in.
Other shops were doing fixes prior to 2015 that didnt include grub screws or brass inserts. Back when Ron Dickey of Axtell was active here, he posted about cutting the support and inserting a washer that was slightly thinner than the cut. This was done to provide a couple thousandths of squeeze on the shaft. As expected, this was not a popular mod on this forum as it required a mill and not just a simple drill and tap. Bottom line is the rotation of the rocker shafts attributing to valve train noise was outed on this forum way before 2015.
Quote from: turboprop on February 26, 2020, 09:33:29 AM
Other shops were doing fixes prior to 2015 that didnt include grub screws or brass inserts. Back when Ron Dickey of Axtell was active here, he posted about cutting the support and inserting a washer that was slightly thinner than the cut. This was done to provide a couple thousandths of squeeze on the shaft. As expected, this was not a popular mod on this forum as it required a mill and not just a simple drill and tap. Bottom line is the rotation of the rocker shafts attributing to valve train noise was outed on this forum way before 2015.
:up: Ron Dickey and Dan Baisley (the porter I referred to) have been working together through racing and engine building for ages.
Just one link to a post that says the rocking shaft causes the tapping noise?
Anyone?
Quote from: Roadflyer on February 26, 2020, 08:42:52 AM
They are somewhat less than 100% effective, kind of a hit and miss.
If you install a Rockout, how do you know the shaft can't rock anymore?
On my 2006 RK, I installed a set and just left it at that. ( no reduction in noise, but who knows what was causing the noise if the first place)
On my 2016 RK, I cut slots in the end of the rocker shafts so I could try moving them with a screwdriver after installation of the rockouts.
The results were, 1 was too tight for a Rockout and I left it out, 1 fit perfectly and there was no movement.
2 were still so loose that the shaft moved almost as much with the rockout as it did without it.
I can only say that there is something unique going on in your support plates. The inserts are typically within +/-.002 in diameter or better. The support plates are cast (or forged SE) so the hole sizes shouldn't vary either. The shafts are ground to exact size. If you tried to put standard TC inserts into SE forged support plates they will be loose & ineffective. Can't think of anything else that would cause what you experienced.
Quote from: Rockout Rocker Products on February 26, 2020, 06:35:41 PM
Just one link to a post that says the rocking shaft causes the tapping noise?
Anyone?
Post #20 from Aug 2012.
There are others, but you can look for them. Rocker shaft rotation was identified as a source of noise prior to you coming here. You just happen to have the easiest fix, but you are not the first to identify this as a source of noise.
https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,54210.msg571641.html#msg571641 (https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,54210.msg571641.html#msg571641)
That discussion seems to be about shafts being loose in the supports, making noise due to being sloppy. The marks on the bolts are referenced, but not directly to causing the noise.
Obviously I have no idea what people may or may not have been doing/thinking in private. For all I know someone out there invented a perpetual motion device in his garage in 1962. All I have to go on is what was made public. And again, my public revelation sure seemed to generate a LOT of interest.... including here. Odd if it was already common knowledge/posted before.
Quote from: Rockout Rocker Products on February 25, 2020, 08:16:39 PM
Quote from: prodrag1320 on February 25, 2020, 04:34:38 AM
still use the set screws here & have for many years.valve train noise can come from many different causes.if the noise is caused by the shafts,this will help,but is not the "cure all" some seem to think it is
Rockout rocker shaft kits target a specific noise from a specific source, and are 100% effective at doing that. They never claim to be a "cure all". If the noise is from another source it will need other measures.
Lots of people like to rewrite history. I made my discovery, and the cure public in a post on 7-11-15. The news traveled very quickly all over the world, as it WAS news.
I have yet to see anyone point to a post they made before that date saying the noise came from the rocker shafts rocking against the bolts, and/or that they had a cure for it, whether by pinning, set screwing, welding, praying or any other means. If you have one please post a link. How long you may or may not have been doing something for other reasons is irrelevant.
you may not have considered them a "cure all',but others have,and was just explaining they may fix a noise problem they are specifically designed for,but not all top end noise.i have no problem with them,they seem like decent enough product & im glad their world renowned.taking the bolts out & seeing the contact & correcting the problem years ago with set screws wasnt rocket science,glad for you for coming out with a product you can sell
Left Ontario, California on Tuesday and arrived yesterday afternoon over here. Pretty quick in my opinion. :up:
Quote from: Rockout Rocker Products on February 26, 2020, 06:53:05 PM
Quote from: Roadflyer on February 26, 2020, 08:42:52 AM
They are somewhat less than 100% effective, kind of a hit and miss.
If you install a Rockout, how do you know the shaft can't rock anymore?
On my 2006 RK, I installed a set and just left it at that. ( no reduction in noise, but who knows what was causing the noise if the first place)
On my 2016 RK, I cut slots in the end of the rocker shafts so I could try moving them with a screwdriver after installation of the rockouts.
The results were, 1 was too tight for a Rockout and I left it out, 1 fit perfectly and there was no movement.
2 were still so loose that the shaft moved almost as much with the rockout as it did without it.
I can only say that there is something unique going on in your support plates. The inserts are typically within +/-.002 in diameter or better. The support plates are cast (or forged SE) so the hole sizes shouldn't vary either. The shafts are ground to exact size. If you tried to put standard TC inserts into SE forged support plates they will be loose & ineffective. Can't think of anything else that would cause what you experienced.
I just saw this post....
I switched to forged support plates, went to put a set of Rockouts in that I had, noticed they were loose, so I removed them...
Do you make the inserts for SE forged support plates...?
Don't really need them right now, but just curious....
I do have inserts for SE plates, just PM me when you're ready :up:
Quote from: Rockout Rocker Products on April 19, 2020, 02:15:08 PM
I do have inserts for SE plates, just PM me when you're ready :up:
I've got them in my SE support plate now. If I recall, they are the same as when using the stock support plate.
The SE support plates have slightly larger holes... thus the different inserts :up:
Quote from: les on April 19, 2020, 04:34:01 PM
Quote from: Rockout Rocker Products on April 19, 2020, 02:15:08 PM
I do have inserts for SE plates, just PM me when you're ready :up:
I've got them in my SE support plate now. If I recall, they are the same as when using the stock support plate.
I observed the same here, perfect fit into the SE forged support. In addition I use a thin coating of Loctite 648 on the rocker shaft ends and the outside of the rockout inserts, locks everything.
Armin.
After I installed the rockers on the rear jug, the tapping seemed louder,and goes away when the big is warm! Any thoughts on that ? When I use 60w oil I notice less noise so I know it works somewhat to quiet it down
Quote from: Rockout Rocker Products on April 19, 2020, 07:31:28 PM
The SE support plates have slightly larger holes... thus the different inserts :up:
Thanks for the clarification.
Quote from: Rockout Rocker Products on April 19, 2020, 02:15:08 PM
I do have inserts for SE plates, just PM me when you're ready :up:
:up: