Just checking my timing. I think my VOSE may be playing up a bit, sometimes working, sometimes not.
Question is, when using a dial back strobe, do I keep the VOSE in the circuit, or take it out?... I have read somewheer that you disconnect the VOSE when timing but trying it both ways, im getting 18.5 deg with it out and 27 deg with it in.. so they don't read the same?
Anyway, on full advance (in or out) should I be more like 35 deg?
Thanks
:crook:
Quote from: 1340evo on August 30, 2020, 07:39:27 AM
Just checking my timing. I think my VOSE may be playing up a bit, sometimes working, sometimes not.
Question is, when using a dial back strobe, do I keep the VOSE in the circuit, or take it out?... I have read somewheer that you disconnect the VOSE when timing but trying it both ways, im getting 18.5 deg with it out and 27 deg with it in.. so they don't read the same?
Anyway, on full advance (in or out) should I be more like 35 deg?
Thanks
When using a dial back light to set timing on an engine equipped with a VOES the lead that comes from the ignition module must be grounded. Set the timing to the full advance of your choosing using the TDC mark on the wheels and the dial back capability of the light.
A less messy alternative is to index the rotor (charging system) and use it the same way that the TDC mark on the wheels would be used.
A dial back light will not work well with a dual fire ignition.
The uneven firing will confuse the light.
Quote from: turboprop on August 30, 2020, 08:58:00 AM
Quote from: 1340evo on August 30, 2020, 07:39:27 AM
Just checking my timing. I think my VOSE may be playing up a bit, sometimes working, sometimes not.
Question is, when using a dial back strobe, do I keep the VOSE in the circuit, or take it out?... I have read somewheer that you disconnect the VOSE when timing but trying it both ways, im getting 18.5 deg with it out and 27 deg with it in.. so they don't read the same?
Anyway, on full advance (in or out) should I be more like 35 deg?
Thanks
When using a dial back light to set timing on an engine equipped with a VOES the lead that comes from the ignition module must be grounded. Set the timing to the full advance of your choosing using the TDC mark on the wheels and the dial back capability of the light.
A less messy alternative is to index the rotor (charging system) and use it the same way that the TDC mark on the wheels would be used.
Have linked past the VOES by joining both wires together... So is it 35 deg?
I have already marked it inside the primary and drained it of oil ;)
I does not appear to confuse it, but it is a bit out to static timing??
Quote from: 1340evo on August 30, 2020, 10:32:20 AM
Quote from: turboprop on August 30, 2020, 08:58:00 AM
Quote from: 1340evo on August 30, 2020, 07:39:27 AM
Just checking my timing. I think my VOSE may be playing up a bit, sometimes working, sometimes not.
Question is, when using a dial back strobe, do I keep the VOSE in the circuit, or take it out?... I have read somewheer that you disconnect the VOSE when timing but trying it both ways, im getting 18.5 deg with it out and 27 deg with it in.. so they don't read the same?
Anyway, on full advance (in or out) should I be more like 35 deg?
Thanks
When using a dial back light to set timing on an engine equipped with a VOES the lead that comes from the ignition module must be grounded. Set the timing to the full advance of your choosing using the TDC mark on the wheels and the dial back capability of the light.
A less messy alternative is to index the rotor (charging system) and use it the same way that the TDC mark on the wheels would be used.
Have linked past the VOES by joining both wires together... So is it 35 deg?
I have already marked it inside the primary and drained it of oil ;)
I does not appear to confuse it, but it is a bit out to static timing??
Factory spec for all evo engines is 35 degrees. A modified engine will probably be happier with less timing.
Not sure what you are asking about static timing.
Just saying its quite away off from my static setting.
Actualy, just thinking about what I've just done, (set to 34).. but it didn't appear to be far off this just abouve tickover with everything linked out
Is that right or should you see the mark climb into position as the reves go up??..
"A modified engine will probably be happier with less timing.'
What S&S advised when I ran their Hot Setup in a FXR back in the 90's. 30°, suggested by them worked very good.
Quote from: 1340evo on August 30, 2020, 11:46:43 AM
Just saying its quite away off from my static setting.
Actually, just thinking about what I've just done, (set to 34).. but it didn't appear to be far off this just above tickover with everything linked out
Is that right or should you see the mark climb into position as the reves go up??..
The timing will steady increase from idle until whatever rpm the full advance curve peaks at. This can vary with the ignition module and what it is set to. A good procedure is to simply hold the light on the marks and increase the rpm until it stops advancing. Whatever rpm that occurs at, go a little higher just to be sure. This is the rpm at which the timing is set with the VOES lead to ground. Be sure to reconnect the VOES once the timing is set.
I will have to re-check at some point, I understand what you are saying, have the light on 35 deg and bring up the revs. Thats what I did but it appeared on 34 deg more or less straight away.
Its the std HD box im running....
Will have another look.. that said, I went for a ride and it all worked well?...
as its set on 34 it does not back fire as much on overun, but does vibe a bit more
27 as I had it before back fired on overun a bit more, less vibes, and maybe just not a keen to get to the red line.
I'm assuming its a very soft red line, like its run out of gas type feeling. I know with my R1 it's like you could go over the bars it stops that quick.
I've never quite understood the reason to ground the Voes. My understanding of the switch is that it controls the timing through vacuum. It may advance the ignition earlier but if you have the dial back set to 35* and the revs are up to what normally is full advance at 35* the full advance mark will be in the window. I do mine this way and it jives with the static timing.I have a 2000P ignition.
So, having set my carb, I've started messing about with the spark timing. I've had it set a static TDC and confirmed this was 35 deg with the strobe.
So last night I marked where it was with two lines, and moved the module anti-clockwise a few deg and took it for a run.
What I found was it's strong at the bottom end but got a bit fluffy mid and top end.
So stoped and adjusted it clockwise, past the 35 deg marks to where its set in the picture now.
I guess its about 38 deg BTDC and it did lose a bit on the bottom end, but runs lovely at mid and top end.
The question is, going clockwise Im going into 'pinking' area so how far dare I go? the fuel in the UK is very good and its running okay now without detonition.
But for a modified engine, most people say I should be going the other way, to 32 deg or so...
so why would my engine feel better going clockwise from 35 deg??
If the way you ride doesn't set off detonation IMO all's good. I set my timing to the delicate top edge and ride it like I stole it. I just don't get on it at low RPM and make it ping. The higher the gear I use the more RPM I need before I will hit it hard. That means downshifting to get the sweet spot and more power when I call for it. In other words, I don't ride it like a tractor unless it's a real soft throttle use trying to be quiet in town. :teeth:
Quote from: kd on September 01, 2022, 08:01:50 PMIf the way you ride doesn't set off detonation IMO all's good. I set my timing to the delicate top edge and ride it like I stole it. I just don't get on it at low RPM and make it ping. The higher the gear I use the more RPM I need before I will hit it hard. That means downshifting to get the sweet spot and more power when I call for it. In other words, I don't ride it like a tractor unless it's a real soft throttle use trying to be quiet in town. :teeth:
Do you know what deg BTDC you have?
just builders of big units tend to go the other way, curious as to why mine would be 37 / 39 area?
Quote from: 1340evo on September 02, 2022, 03:57:54 AMQuote from: kd on September 01, 2022, 08:01:50 PMIf the way you ride doesn't set off detonation IMO all's good. I set my timing to the delicate top edge and ride it like I stole it. I just don't get on it at low RPM and make it ping. The higher the gear I use the more RPM I need before I will hit it hard. That means downshifting to get the sweet spot and more power when I call for it. In other words, I don't ride it like a tractor unless it's a real soft throttle use trying to be quiet in town. :teeth:
Do you know what deg BTDC you have?
just builders of big units tend to go the other way, curious as to why mine would be 37 / 39 area?
Screamin Eagle SE 3 (http://www.bigboyzheadporting.com/EVOcams.htm)
Quote from: kd on September 02, 2022, 06:14:35 AMQuote from: 1340evo on September 02, 2022, 03:57:54 AMQuote from: kd on September 01, 2022, 08:01:50 PMIf the way you ride doesn't set off detonation IMO all's good. I set my timing to the delicate top edge and ride it like I stole it. I just don't get on it at low RPM and make it ping. The higher the gear I use the more RPM I need before I will hit it hard. That means downshifting to get the sweet spot and more power when I call for it. In other words, I don't ride it like a tractor unless it's a real soft throttle use trying to be quiet in town. :teeth:
Do you know what deg BTDC you have?
just builders of big units tend to go the other way, curious as to why mine would be 37 / 39 area?
Screamin Eagle SE 3 (http://www.bigboyzheadporting.com/EVOcams.htm)
Thats an interesting page.. my ev27 has 36 overlap where my L grind had zero, so guess that accounts for the rough tickover, but good mid and top...
but can't see anything on spark timing?
Quote from: 1340evo on September 02, 2022, 11:48:54 AMQuote from: kd on September 02, 2022, 06:14:35 AMQuote from: 1340evo on September 02, 2022, 03:57:54 AMQuote from: kd on September 01, 2022, 08:01:50 PMIf the way you ride doesn't set off detonation IMO all's good. I set my timing to the delicate top edge and ride it like I stole it. I just don't get on it at low RPM and make it ping. The higher the gear I use the more RPM I need before I will hit it hard. That means downshifting to get the sweet spot and more power when I call for it. In other words, I don't ride it like a tractor unless it's a real soft throttle use trying to be quiet in town. :teeth:
Do you know what deg BTDC you have?
just builders of big units tend to go the other way, curious as to why mine would be 37 / 39 area?
Screamin Eagle SE 3 (http://www.bigboyzheadporting.com/EVOcams.htm)
Thats an interesting page.. my ev27 has 36 overlap where my L grind had zero, so guess that accounts for the rough tickover, but good mid and top...
but can't see anything on spark timing?
Your spark timing is going to be what the engine likes depending on the load (weight and gearing), compression, available fuel grade used, and how on the whole the build components work together.
As I said, I am tolerant of sensitive ignition timing because I don't lug my engine and prefer the power advanced timing delivers. It's kind of a touchy feely thing you have to settle on for how you ride and how the engine performs as the package works.
There truly isn't any book setting and no 2 engines are identical even with the same components. I think you just experienced that with your carb settings. I would approach your ignition timing the same way. You seem to have already noticed some trends. Settle into the range that makes you happy without excessive detonation and you should be happy.
Quote from: kd on September 02, 2022, 01:11:52 PMQuote from: 1340evo on September 02, 2022, 11:48:54 AMQuote from: kd on September 02, 2022, 06:14:35 AMQuote from: 1340evo on September 02, 2022, 03:57:54 AMQuote from: kd on September 01, 2022, 08:01:50 PMIf the way you ride doesn't set off detonation IMO all's good. I set my timing to the delicate top edge and ride it like I stole it. I just don't get on it at low RPM and make it ping. The higher the gear I use the more RPM I need before I will hit it hard. That means downshifting to get the sweet spot and more power when I call for it. In other words, I don't ride it like a tractor unless it's a real soft throttle use trying to be quiet in town. :teeth:
Do you know what deg BTDC you have?
just builders of big units tend to go the other way, curious as to why mine would be 37 / 39 area?
Screamin Eagle SE 3 (http://www.bigboyzheadporting.com/EVOcams.htm)
Thats an interesting page.. my ev27 has 36 overlap where my L grind had zero, so guess that accounts for the rough tickover, but good mid and top...
but can't see anything on spark timing?
Your spark timing is going to be what the engine likes depending on the load (weight and gearing), compression, available fuel grade used, and how on the whole the build components work together.
As I said, I am tolerant of sensitive ignition timing because I don't lug my engine and prefer the power advanced timing delivers. It's kind of a touchy feely thing you have to settle on for how you ride and how the engine performs as the package works.
There truly isn't any book setting and no 2 engines are identical even with the same components. I think you just experienced that with your carb settings. I would approach your ignition timing the same way. You seem to have already noticed some trends. Settle into the range that makes you happy without excessive detonation and you should be happy.
It is good where it is now so will mark it and go a bit more see what that does.
I guess when I've done this I need to go back and check my jetting as this will change the burn so I may be getting a differant result there... its taken me all summer to do two simple things :teeth:
for the timing it would be good to get on some rollers so you could see straight away whats going on and adjust.... One thing I guess you must watch is the 2:1 crank to cam as moveing it 2 deg at the plate will be 4 deg for the timing :up:
Quote from: 1340evo on September 03, 2022, 12:22:12 AMQuote from: kd on September 02, 2022, 01:11:52 PMQuote from: 1340evo on September 02, 2022, 11:48:54 AMQuote from: kd on September 02, 2022, 06:14:35 AMQuote from: 1340evo on September 02, 2022, 03:57:54 AMQuote from: kd on September 01, 2022, 08:01:50 PMIf the way you ride doesn't set off detonation IMO all's good. I set my timing to the delicate top edge and ride it like I stole it. I just don't get on it at low RPM and make it ping. The higher the gear I use the more RPM I need before I will hit it hard. That means downshifting to get the sweet spot and more power when I call for it. In other words, I don't ride it like a tractor unless it's a real soft throttle use trying to be quiet in town. :teeth:
Do you know what deg BTDC you have?
just builders of big units tend to go the other way, curious as to why mine would be 37 / 39 area?
Screamin Eagle SE 3 (http://www.bigboyzheadporting.com/EVOcams.htm)
Thats an interesting page.. my ev27 has 36 overlap where my L grind had zero, so guess that accounts for the rough tickover, but good mid and top...
but can't see anything on spark timing?
Your spark timing is going to be what the engine likes depending on the load (weight and gearing), compression, available fuel grade used, and how on the whole the build components work together.
As I said, I am tolerant of sensitive ignition timing because I don't lug my engine and prefer the power advanced timing delivers. It's kind of a touchy feely thing you have to settle on for how you ride and how the engine performs as the package works.
There truly isn't any book setting and no 2 engines are identical even with the same components. I think you just experienced that with your carb settings. I would approach your ignition timing the same way. You seem to have already noticed some trends. Settle into the range that makes you happy without excessive detonation and you should be happy.
It is good where it is now so will mark it and go a bit more see what that does.
I guess when I've done this I need to go back and check my jetting as this will change the burn so I may be getting a differant result there... its taken me all summer to do two simple things :teeth:
for the timing it would be good to get on some rollers so you could see straight away whats going on and adjust.... One thing I guess you must watch is the 2:1 crank to cam as moveing it 2 deg at the plate will be 4 deg for the timing :up:
I would be inclined to set it to where it pings the way I ride and then back it off a titch for protection. No point in getting all wrapped up in the numbers. Where it works is what counts.
Because you also have the AFR gauge. rechecking the fuel is a great idea. Any changes to dial in the fuel closer after doing the timing means the timing may need a tck too. It's called dialing it in and is worth doing it to some of us OCD individuals.
It can be a lot of back and forth, hence the phrase "I'm done, it's good enough."
:agree:
What he said.
-JW
Next weekend now.. .Or I call it a day :teeth:
Don't worry, be happy!
-JW