HarleyTechTalk

I haven't heard much on these units for late model twin cams, I just did one internet search and all I found was noise complaints... Has Darkhorse got this thing dialed in? Does anybody have some miles on one of these with some info that they'd like to share?

Thought it might be a good option for a bike with a stock bottom end.

Thanks

Quote from: 838 on November 12, 2023, 05:11:09 PMI haven't heard much on these units for late model twin cams, I just did one internet search and all I found was noise complaints... Has Darkhorse got this thing dialed in? Does anybody have some miles on one of these with some info that they'd like to share?

Thought it might be a good option for a bike with a stock bottom end.

Thanks

I have a friend that installed one on his 2020 M8 and he really likes it. I don't know anyone that has put it on a Twin Cam.
I was hoping they would make one for my 2005 but last time I checked they had no plans of making one.

Quote from: 838 on November 12, 2023, 05:11:09 PMI haven't heard much on these units for late model twin cams, I just did one internet search and all I found was noise complaints... Has Darkhorse got this thing dialed in? Does anybody have some miles on one of these with some info that they'd like to share?

Thought it might be a good option for a bike with a stock bottom end.

Thanks

Is there a reason you would want to change from the stock setup?

I have a 2000 with 95" kit and a stock 2003 with totally stock primary drives with no issues.

 

Quote from: HogMike on November 13, 2023, 05:01:10 AM

Quote from: 838 on November 12, 2023, 05:11:09 PMI haven't heard much on these units for late model twin cams, I just did one internet search and all I found was noise complaints... Has Darkhorse got this thing dialed in? Does anybody have some miles on one of these with some info that they'd like to share?

Thought it might be a good option for a bike with a stock bottom end.

Thanks

Is there a reason you would want to change from the stock setup?

I have a 2000 with 95" kit and a stock 2003 with totally stock primary drives with no issues.

 

Yes, the late model options were not as robust as the 06 and earlier... Darkhorse option is rebuildable.

The modern SE style compensators that end oil are very reliable if setup properly. And springs can be replaced down the road if needed.

Quote from: 838 on November 13, 2023, 10:12:35 AM

Quote from: HogMike on November 13, 2023, 05:01:10 AM

Quote from: 838 on November 12, 2023, 05:11:09 PMI haven't heard much on these units for late model twin cams, I just did one internet search and all I found was noise complaints... Has Darkhorse got this thing dialed in? Does anybody have some miles on one of these with some info that they'd like to share?

Thought it might be a good option for a bike with a stock bottom end.

Thanks

Is there a reason you would want to change from the stock setup?

I have a 2000 with 95" kit and a stock 2003 with totally stock primary drives with no issues.

 

Yes, the late model options were not as robust as the 06 and earlier... Darkhorse option is rebuildable.

As said by Ohio, the 2014 edition is in  fact a decent option and mine is surviving it's daily beating quite well.  Here's some info.

https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,82010.msg917659/sslRedirect.html#msg917659

Quote from: Ohio HD on November 13, 2023, 11:08:31 AMThe modern SE style compensators that end oil are very reliable if setup properly. An springs can be replaced down the road if needed.

I don't understand this. Can you explain.

Aside from the sticky attached there have been many conversations around this on here.  After reading it, if you need more info, try a search for 2014 compensator, +14 compensator or similar.  You will find the part numbers for shims and details on the springs.

https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,82010.msg917659/sslRedirect.html#msg917659

Quote from: 838 on November 13, 2023, 01:56:08 PM

Quote from: Ohio HD on November 13, 2023, 11:08:31 AMThe modern SE style compensators that end oil are very reliable if setup properly. An springs can be replaced down the road if needed.

I don't understand this. Can you explain.

The tapered retaining bolt wicks oil from a built in scoop inside the outer primary cover. It catches oil that is slung around the primary from the chain and clutch basket. When using this compensator on an earlier than 2014 bike, they give you a plastics scoop to epoxy to the inner primary. Or you can always buy a later model outer primary cover. 

Best thing since sliced bread. Steve at GMR made a retrofit kit before HD came out with this, and eliminated the older SE compensators. Max also had a prototype.


https://www.harley-davidson.com/us/en/shop/screamin-eagle-big-twin-compensator/p/40100061

And most prefer this over Hobian's aftermarket piece?

Quote from: 838 on November 12, 2023, 05:11:09 PMI haven't heard much on these units for late model twin cams, I just did one internet search and all I found was noise complaints... Has Darkhorse got this thing dialed in? Does anybody have some miles on one of these with some info that they'd like to share?

Thought it might be a good option for a bike with a stock bottom end.

Thanks

I have roughly 7k on the MOW (TC124) so not high mileage but can say I prefer the direct power delivery of it. There is a slight neutral noise (common) and I would recommend using the stock tensioner with it. Is it hard on parts? Probably. I wanted to try it, the stock 14+ SE comp was within stack spec so like others I trust DH and like a solid type feel motor sprocket. On couple other 124's I run solids and no issue as of now and also TC131" running the original 14+ SE comp with 22k on it (10k with 131") and no shims/spring needed yet. I will add that I personally feel the L side is probably better off as close to stock set up as possible for over all reliability. One bike is enough with this MOW for now only bc like you I'm curious of what's down the road as miles accumulate.

Quote from: Ohio HD on November 13, 2023, 02:20:56 PMThe tapered retaining bolt wicks oil from a built in scoop inside the outer primary cover. It catches oil that is slung around the primary from the chain and clutch basket.

I put a MOW comp in my 124 powered 2013 Street Glide.
The direct drive feel is great , no noises or vibrations in the 10,000 km i put on the MOW.
Bike starts better too.
Next time i am in the primary i will post pictures of any wear and condition of the cushions.

So i took the primary cover off to check on Vulcan primary chain adjuster and look at the Man-o-War compensator.
After bending a Baker Attitude Adjuster and bending an Armored Attitude Adjuster I thought I would try the Vulcan. Vulcan is all good!
The Man -o-War is good too, no signs of wear and the cushions are still in great condition. The outer plate is held in place by 4 - 1/4 x 20 nc screws that are red loctited in place, careful on taking them out! I had to go back and forth on the loosen- tighten to get them out without breaking them off.

The bike is a 2013 street glide, 124 ci , grudge box , chain drive, burn outs , clutch drops, you get the idea , driven reasonably hard. If it can be broken i seem to be able to find a way to break it.
Ok this is supposed to be about the MOW, can't say enough good things about my experience with it.

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How many miles on the MOW? That's a robust chain tensioner I like the looks of that. Thanks for the feed back!  Bob

Quote from: boatdoc on February 08, 2024, 10:07:14 PMThe outer plate is held in place by 4 - 1/4 x 20 nc screws that are red loctited in place, careful on taking them out!

I read that and thought Hhmmmmm  RED  .....   I'd not be using that

so I looked up the destructions AND they call for BLUE to be used .....

I see in your third pic the BLUE stain from the previous/initial install so what Loctite have you used?

Quote from: FXDBI on February 08, 2024, 10:24:15 PMHow many miles on the MOW? That's a robust chain tensioner I like the looks of that. Thanks for the feed back!  Bob

About 10,000 km.

Quote from: FSG on February 09, 2024, 12:24:58 AMI see in your third pic the BLUE stain from the previous/initial install so what Loctite have you used?

I assumed by how hard the screws were to remove that it was red loctite on them. Being colour blind means I can't see the stain being blue unfortunately.
They turned a 1/2 turn and squeaked to a stop, i had to go back and forth most of the way out, don't usually have that problem with blue loctite often.
Bit of a tough audience here eh!

QuoteI assumed by how hard the screws were to remove that it was red loctite on them. Being colour blind means I can't see the stain being blue unfortunately.
They turned a 1/2 turn and squeaked to a stop, i had to go back and forth most of the way out, don't usually have that problem with blue loctite often.
Bit of a tough audience here eh!

It would be harder to remove the bolts even with blue with that excessive amount of loctite on it. A little goes a long way a little drop will do ya. Not a tough crowd just very factual. Thanks again for the update on the MOW and Vulcan chain tensioner.  I want one of those tensioners.    Bob

Quote from: FXDBI on February 09, 2024, 05:31:59 PM

QuoteI assumed by how hard the screws were to remove that it was red loctite on them. Being colour blind means I can't see the stain being blue unfortunately.
They turned a 1/2 turn and squeaked to a stop, i had to go back and forth most of the way out, don't usually have that problem with blue loctite often.
Bit of a tough audience here eh!

It would be harder to remove the bolts even with blue with that excessive amount of loctite on it. A little goes a long way a little drop will do ya. Not a tough crowd just very factual. Thanks again for the update on the MOW and Vulcan chain tensioner.  I want one of those tensioners.    Bob

You will never get anything past FSG.  He pays attention and knows what he's doing. 

an interesting mark pattern from the Green Compression Cushions .......

while it's not needed I'd bet that if you indexed the comp to the crank then it'd always be the same mark pattern ......

I wonder if Darkhorse have noticed it ....

I wonder how much "compensation" this design actually provides ?
It doesn't appear to offer a lot of movement looking at the wear pattern.
I'd suggest not a huge difference from a solid sprocket, and you can see why some
may complain about vibration/noise.

Quote from: speedzter on February 10, 2024, 04:22:43 PMI wonder how much "compensation" this design actually provides ?
It doesn't appear to offer a lot of movement looking at the wear pattern.
I'd suggest not a huge difference from a solid sprocket, and you can see why some
may complain about vibration/noise.

Quote from: speedzter on February 10, 2024, 04:22:43 PMI wonder how much "compensation" this design actually provides ?
It doesn't appear to offer a lot of movement looking at the wear pattern.
I'd suggest not a huge difference from a solid sprocket, and you can see why some
may complain about vibration/noise.

Good observation, no expert but unlike other compensators that move back and forth on a ramp with springs to dampen, it appears the MOW moves enough to just absorb pulses. In a sense it's a solid with a buffer? 

This is from the FWIW dept. I tried MOW comp on my 103 TC softail last year. It transferred a lot of high frequency vibrations to everything. I returned it. I mistakenly assumed it was because of crank runout. John Sachs did a complete rebuild of the motor at 98k miles including an S&S crank. Turns out the original crank runout was only .004. About a month ago I found a used MOW comp that the seller was willing to part with at a good price so I figured what the heck. Seller said it had less than 500 miles on it. I installed it and the vibration issue I had with the first one wasn't there. I'm wondering if the first one would have smoothed out with some miles on it or if the S&S crank just plays better with it. I know some people complain they are noisy but I can't really notice any difference. The drive train on this bike has always been noisy to my ear. One thing I have noticed is that the bike seems to shift better/easier. Or maybe I'm just imagining that.  Since I'm bike OCD I'll probably pop the primary cover off at the next oil change and have a look see.