HarleyTechTalk

For those interested we are going to be doing back to back testing with an assortment of bolt in cams on a 107" Milwaukee Eight motor. The testing will be done on a stock 107 M8 air cooled bike equipped with what we are considering average, good performing, readily available components. We will be using Screamin Eagle Stage 1 air cleaner with stock cover, S&S MK45 mufflers, Jackpot M8 2/1/2 head pipe, and each combination will get a comprehensive dyno tune with Dynojet Power Vision. Each evaluation will be done in the same gear at the same engine temp. We are going to try to do this over 2 days, we are scheduling this for the last week of January. 

The cams we are testing are as follows:

Cycle-Rama 460
Redshift 468
Wood WM8-22X
S&S 475C
Andrews M460

That should be interesting. I look forward to see the differences.   

Very cool that you are doing this. Out of curiosity, is there a reason you have chosen the S&S MK45 mufflers? Do you consider them to be the best mufflers for the M8?

Quote from: Nastytls on January 18, 2018, 04:27:33 PM
Very cool that you are doing this. Out of curiosity, is there a reason you have chosen the S&S MK45 mufflers? Do you consider them to be the best mufflers for the M8?

"we are considering average, good performing, readily available components"

That's great news Jamie    Really looking forward to the results.  Never heard those S&S mufflers in person, but they sure do sound nice on video clips... Keep up the good work...

Thanks in advance for sharing these tests, looking forward to the results as well.

Definitely looking forward to the results, as the next upgrade to my '17 RGS is a cam choice...

K.

You guys have your work cut out for you. Good luck, looking forward to the results.
And as mentioned, thank you for the effort and sharing the results.

This should be a good test and yield some usable data. 5 cam changes and 5 complete tunes in two days is a very aggressive schedule, so get some rest before you start. Looking forward to you posting the results. 

Looking forward to the findings, awesome effort.

thank you Jamie / Fuel Moto 

We are starting our Milwaukee Eight 107 cam test and I wanted to provide some specific info on how the test will be conducted. Test bike is a 2017 Road Glide 107 with 3460 miles, the engine is completely stock with the exception of the 5 different bolt in cam's we are testing. The bike will be equipped with a Screamin Eagle Stage 1 air cleaner, Jackpot M8 2/1/2 head pipe, S&S MK45 slip on mufflers, and each cam will be fully tuned with Dynojet Power Vision. Bike will be tested in our dyno cell which has optimum makeup air, exhaust extraction, it is monitored for CO, and the temp will be controlled @ (+/- 5) 72 degrees. We will use our standardized procedure; 6th gear runs 1:1 ratio, bike strapped down on the dyno from each side, cooling fans on each side of the bike at a 45 degree angle 24" from the engine, all runs will be done within a specific engine temperature range and logged/monitored from the bikes CANbus, all runs will be displayed/posted in SAE format with correction multiplier & specific conditions clearly shown. Dyno runs posted will be the average of each cam combination, not the highest or lowest chart of each test. We will be testing in no particular order. We are going to check cam lift & event timing in the engine with a fixture & degree wheel (we will not be posting this info publicly). Due to the amount of work required to install, document, and fully tune each cam and the data that needs to be sorted we are going to post final results once the test is fully completed. We will however be posting relative information thru out the week as we go, full results for each cam will be posted on our website and social media channels Monday February 5th. Thank you for following along.

A big thumbs up, and good luck!

Just an observation, have you thought about doing a run without the air cleaner to see if it is restricting flow?

Quote from: Hossamania on January 29, 2018, 08:33:17 AM
Just an observation, have you thought about doing a run without the air cleaner to see if it is restricting flow?

We have very specific objectives for this test, we cannot add variables such as different air cleaners, mufflers, etc.. as it dilutes the premise of the test itself which is; how each cam performs with the exact same set of components. I do however know what you are saying.

As far as air cleaners we have tested many of them on the market for the M8, that is an entirely topic in an of itself. We posted some really interesting air cleaner test info early on in a different social media site and some members of our "fan club" only wanted to hear/believe what they wanted to, twisted the testing around, and for the next year posted statement like we were running bikes with air cleaners removed, the VSS unplugged, and other bs. This is the reason we keep most of our testing and info to ourselves.

That sounds like as consistent of a test as you could ask for. I wouldn't expect to see huge differences in the cams, but then again, consistent tests tell the truth.

Quote from: Jamie Long on January 29, 2018, 08:49:20 AM

Quote from: Hossamania on January 29, 2018, 08:33:17 AM
Just an observation, have you thought about doing a run without the air cleaner to see if it is restricting flow?

We have very specific objectives for this test, we cannot add variables such as different air cleaners, mufflers, etc.. as it dilutes the premise of the test itself which is; how each cam performs with the exact same set of components. I do however know what you are saying.

As far as air cleaners we have tested many of them on the market for the M8, that is an entirely topic in an of itself. We posted some really interesting air cleaner test info early on in a different social media site and some members of our "fan club" only wanted to hear/believe what they wanted to, twisted the testing around, and for the next year posted statement like we were running bikes with air cleaners removed, the VSS unplugged, and other bs. This is the reason we keep most of our testing and info to ourselves.

Is it based on the other air cleaner tests you refer to above are you using the SE stage 1 because you are confident it will not cause any restriction that would contaminate the cam test results.

Quote from: Jamie Long on January 29, 2018, 08:23:12 AM
We are starting our Milwaukee Eight 107 cam test and I wanted to provide some specific info on how the test will be conducted. Test bike is a 2017 Road Glide 107 with 3460 miles, the engine is completely stock with the exception of the 5 different bolt in cam's we are testing. The bike will be equipped with a Screamin Eagle Stage 1 air cleaner, Jackpot M8 2/1/2 head pipe, S&S MK45 slip on mufflers, and each cam will be fully tuned with Dynojet Power Vision. Bike will be tested in our dyno cell which has optimum makeup air, exhaust extraction, it is monitored for CO, and the temp will be controlled @ (+/- 5) 72 degrees. We will use our standardized procedure; 6th gear runs 1:1 ratio, bike strapped down on the dyno from each side, cooling fans on each side of the bike at a 45 degree angle 24" from the engine, all runs will be done within a specific engine temperature range and logged/monitored from the bikes CANbus, all runs will be displayed/posted in SAE format with correction multiplier & specific conditions clearly shown. Dyno runs posted will be the average of each cam combination, not the highest or lowest chart of each test. We will be testing in no particular order. We are going to check cam lift & event timing in the engine with a fixture & degree wheel (we will not be posting this info publicly). Due to the amount of work required to install, document, and fully tune each cam and the data that needs to be sorted we are going to post final results once the test is fully completed. We will however be posting relative information thru out the week as we go, full results for each cam will be posted on our website and social media channels Monday February 5th. Thank you for following along.

On nice addition would be to include CCP tests for each cam. I know this is standard procedure when making back to back dyno tests but it was not mentioned so I thought i would ask if we could see them posted as well.
Thanks for sharing here at HTT.

Quote from: Jamie Long on January 29, 2018, 08:49:20 AM

Quote from: Hossamania on January 29, 2018, 08:33:17 AM
Just an observation, have you thought about doing a run without the air cleaner to see if it is restricting flow?

We have very specific objectives for this test, we cannot add variables such as different air cleaners, mufflers, etc.. as it dilutes the premise of the test itself which is; how each cam performs with the exact same set of components. I do however know what you are saying.

As far as air cleaners we have tested many of them on the market for the M8, that is an entirely topic in an of itself. We posted some really interesting air cleaner test info early on in a different social media site and some members of our "fan club" only wanted to hear/believe what they wanted to, twisted the testing around, and for the next year posted statement like we were running bikes with air cleaners removed, the VSS unplugged, and other bs. This is the reason we keep most of our testing and info to ourselves.

Haters gonna hate. I don't see anyone else performing this type of testing on their dime, or otherwise. I think most people can see through the garbage associated with jealousy of Fuel Moto's success. What's sad is that the rest of us are missing out if you don't share your findings in other testing you do because of those jealous people.

We have tested each of the cam's listed for our test, we had a bunch of people ask about the Wood WM8-222 so we squeezed it into the test as well. The Dynojet Power Vision, Jackpot 2/1/2, S&S MK45 mufflers, & Screamin Eagle air cleaner we used for the test worked very well and proved to be a very consistent, strong performing combination.

We are running one last set of tests today; we are switching exhaust to a 2/1 system and using the new K&N air charger (heavy breather) type air cleaner. We are looking to determine & demonstrate the effects of how a different style exhaust & AC affects the curve and overall numbers. As noted earlier we will be compiling, sorting, & formatting all of the data and we will be posting results on Monday Feb 5th. Stay tuned! 

Might be the first test of it's kind that we've seen here, all back to back and within very close time frame for weather conditions, etc.   

   

With proper testing the weather conditions will have little to no effect. I am sure the data from the first of the week will be comparable to the tests run 5 days later even with the weather changes this time of year.

Thanks Jamie for sharing here, with two real test threads in the M-8 section of HTT we are clearly the internet forum leader in data for this new engine platform.

We tested all 6 cams over 2 days, we had everything staged and ready for Tuesday & Wednesday testing, it was truly a team effort; Travis pulled the parts & had them ready, Keith changed the cam's, I did the dyno tuning, the rest of the staff kept the business running as usual. We wrapped up the test with the exhaust & air cleaner swap today. We did everything in our power to keep the test consistent. The most difficult part was keeping the dyno cell at 72 degrees consistently, fortunately we have a really good makeup air system with variable dampers. We used fuel from the same jugs of Mobil 91 we filled from the pump on Monday. 

Sounds like quite the process!
Looking forward to the results.

Only one and a half hours until Monday.   

Fuel Moto H-D Milwaukee-Eight® 107" Camshaft Shootout



Fuel Moto tested SIX different bolt in camshafts back-to-back to provide an accurate comparison of results. Our test bike was a 2017 Harley-Davidson Road Glide 107" Milwaukee Eight and was equipped with a Screamin' Eagle Stage 1 air cleaner, Jackpot M8 2/1/2 head pipe, S&S MK45 slip on mufflers, and each cam was fully tuned with the Dynojet Power Vision. The following cams were part of this test:

Andrews M460
Cycle-Rama 460
S&S Cycle 475C
Wood Performance-WM8-22X
Zipper's Red Shift 468
Wood Performance WM8-222

The first dyno chart below has all six of the camshafts overlaid to show their respective torque and horsepower relative to this particular set of components. All of the camshafts in our test offered significant performance increases over that of the stock camshaft.


____________________________________________________________________

Andrews M460 Camshaft
Valve Train Noise: Very Quiet
Cam Lope at Idle: Moderate
Description: This cam makes nice broad power. It comes on relatively early and pulls well to the right side of the curve. This cam placed in the middle of the test.


_____________________________________________________________________
Cycle Rama CR-460 Camshaft
Valve Train Noise: Very Quiet
Cam Lope at Idle: Moderate
Description: The Cycle Rama 460 made very good low RPM power (the second best in this test), it also provides a very broad power curve with good upper RPM power.



____________________________________________________________________

S&S Cycle 475C Camshaft
Valve Train Noise: Very Quiet
Cam Lope at Idle: Very Aggressive
Description: The S&S 475C made the second best peak HP in our test, it accelerates hard. It is very responsive and has the most aggressive lope of all the cams we tested by a significant margin.


____________________________________________________________________

Wood WM8-22X Camshaft
Valve Train Noise: Very Quiet
Cam Lope at Idle: Aggressive
Description: The WM8-22X camshaft offers the best early torque in this test, and it faired well horsepower wise. This cam is easy to tune and has an aggressive lope.


____________________________________________________________________

Zipper's Red Shift 468 Camshaft
Valve Train Noise: Very Quiet
Cam Lope at Idle: Semi-Aggressive
Description: The Red Shift 468 placed in the middle of our test for both peak torque and horsepower. It has really broad power, nice and strong through the mid RPM's. It has a semi aggressive lope.



___________________________________________________________________

Wood WM8-222 Camshaft
Valve Train Noise: Very Quiet
Cam Lope at Idle: Moderate
Description: The WM8-222 made the best overall peak horsepower. It made slightly less early torque than the other cams. It has the smoothest curve.