compairson between a stock lead acid and a twin power lethium ion battery

[1workinman]

 I have a lithium ion battery on my 12 street glide that has a 124 inch motor and the replacement battery in my 13 road glide with the 145 inch motor .  The 145 inch motor starts great cold but when it get warmed up to say 240 or 250 heat soak it does not want start as good .  I put up with it and I have the front head light out of my 12 waiting on some new led lights to show up from JP so I decided to just ride the road glide . So it started good as usual for the first time and I backed it out and I managed to kill the motor so I tried to start it and it was dead . Bike had not been started in a while and no tender was on it . Any way I jumped it off and no more problems .  I the next morning I swapped battery and installed a tender on both . The Road glide with the 145 inch motor now seems to start better hot . For what ever reason I got it up to 240  or 250 today pulled it in and killed the engine . Let the motor heat soak and  hit starter and it just started .  I not sure if this is a good test but so far it seems to help quiet a bit .   One thing that I had a du moment is the engine seems to run cooler with one person compared to a 2 up ridding lol just a measurement of load I guess and heat rejection I guess . I always like to have a back up plan on things . One thing that may help is the fact that I changed the primary ratio on the 12 street glide to 49 tooth on basket so it my be just fine with a stock battery , I suspect that a game changer might also do that

[kd]

What size of battery cables are you using? OEM ?

I use these.  They are a direct fit.  Here is a link to the company and one to a pic of the 2 gauge cables.

http://www.sumax.com/battery_cables.html

https://sumax.com/product/extreme-duty-battery-cable-kits/

[1workinman]

What size of battery cables are you using? OEM ?

I use these.  They are a direct fit.  Here is a link to the company and one to a pic of the 2 gauge cables.

http://www.sumax.com/battery_cables.html

https://sumax.com/product/extreme-duty-battery-cable-kits/

My cables are stock what ever they are . I doubt they are any where big enough to carry all of the current that the twin power battery is capable of . So you used these cable and could you see any change in the way your bike starts .  The twin power battery has made a difference as I went to town this evening to wash up the bike by my self and see how it runs with just me and damn it will scoot lol That and see if I can tell any difference in the temp . A tad cooler but that is subjective . Killed the motor at gate it was 235 I guess and opened and hit the starter , busted off no problem . Still not 100 percent sure but it seems to be a lot better . I buy the cables if you think they will help . And copy them and build another set at work lol . Thanks for the reply KD

[No Cents]

    Jim...keep that lithium battery in your 145. Put it on a lithium maintainer when your not riding the bike and it should crank that 145 engine over with ease...even heat soaked. I'd get another lithium battery for your 124 when you decide to replace the other battery you have in there now. The key to the lithium battery is to keep the maintainer on it when your not riding the bike. My lithium battery is three years old now and it still spins my 124 over like the plugs are out of it...even heat soaked.

[1workinman]

    Jim...keep that lithium battery in your 145. Put it on a lithium maintainer when your not riding the bike and it should crank that 145 engine over with ease...even heat soaked. I'd get another lithium battery for your 124 when you decide to replace the other battery you have in there now. The key to the lithium battery is to keep the maintainer on it when your not riding the bike. My lithium battery is three years old now and it still spins my 124 over like the plugs are out of it...even heat soaked.

Ray I had this idea I install one of those manual push the plunger in a start the engine as I thought that was a good idea . On the 124 that I just go through installing the new basket , hub compensator ect ect lol . So after making sure it was   not in gear no brain farts lol I pushed it in . That pos stuck in and it just kept turning over of course and I was WTF moment . it was craning over and not letting up , I ran over got a pair of pliers and pulled the damn thing out crap lol . Took that damn things off both bikes and installed the original covers on till farther notice crap . I will say the battery never gave a hint of giving up . Well that was a hell of a test not that intended on doing that . So after that hair raising event I should have had seat off to be sure but that's too late now.  So after the starter cooled off I had a beer and it started right up thank goodness no damage to the new evolution's basket ring gear or starter nice and quiet . But I say I was impressed with the battery.  Also when I pulled and swapped I still can not believe the difference in weight. Yes for sure Ray I install another Twin Power or the Anti Gravity not sure about it .  I know its sound dumb but there is a significant  difference now in hot starting . I went ahead and ordered the cables kd recommended and I build another set for the street glide at work .  Thanks for the advice Ray

[1workinman]

What size of battery cables are you using? OEM ?

I use these.  They are a direct fit.  Here is a link to the company and one to a pic of the 2 gauge cables.

http://www.sumax.com/battery_cables.html

https://sumax.com/product/extreme-duty-battery-cable-kits/

KD I was wanting to know if it would make a difference so I went ahead and built a couple of cables while I waited on the cables to get here . Interesting that after I installed the larger cables and started the bike the battery voltage was lower on the gauge for a bit than before . I was guessing that the larger cables was able to pull down the twin power battery a bit more. It came back up after running a bit . at any rate it starts pretty good now . Need to test it a bit more going to ride it in a couple of weeks in Colorado so I get a change to see how it goes ,. unless some thing comes up damn lol

[Phu Cat]

Regardless of where you buy your battery cables, whatever size cable you buy, you want a cable with the smallest diameter wires you can find for that size cable as the smaller individual wires will carry more current for that size wire.  Welding wire is a good example.  The individual wires in welding wire are very small but there are a ton of them in that cable size.  Fewer, but fatter wires, are guaranteed to carry less current with more resistance.

PC

[Coyote]

Regardless of where you buy your battery cables, whatever size cable you buy, you want a cable with the smallest diameter wires you can find for that size cable as the smaller individual wires will carry more current for that size wire.  Welding wire is a good example.  The individual wires in welding wire are very small but there are a ton of them in that cable size.  Fewer, but fatter wires, are guaranteed to carry less current with more resistance.

PC

This is not true (at all) on a DC current carrying cable.

[Phu Cat]

Coyote, I respect your opinions, but I've yet to see many smaller diameter wire for the same size cable carry the current as fewer large diameter wires for that size cable.  Can you give us an explanation as I think welding is DC.

PC

[Coyote]

Current carrying capacity of stranded vs solid wire only increases when you are dealing with AC current. The higher the frequency of the AC, the more skin effect comes into play. Since stranded wire has more surface area (skin) it will carry more current.

For DC, the only thing that matters is the cross sectional area of the wire. Solid or stranded, it doesn't matter. The primary purpose of using stranded wire in DC applications is for flexibility.

[kd]

   It has been discussed here before.   The thinner strand wire is in fact more flexible and will be easier to work with around most jobs but I will add that welding can be AC, DC or DC reverse, so the thinner strand will have some value on the AC setting.

[akjeff]

I'm with Coyote and KD. The only difference between "welding"/"locomotive" cable, and standard stranded cable is flexibility. The current carrying capacity for equal AWG(American Wire Gauge) cable is the same. For DC current......it makes no difference other than the flex cable is easier to work with, and resistant to vibration, which makes it perfect for motorcycles. As far as "skin effect" goes, it only applies in real life to frequencies far higher than the 60 Hz you would encounter in normal AC service, or the 400 Hz you have in aircraft/missiles, etc..... When it comes to the main cables between the battery and starter, use the largest conductor practical to keep voltage drop to a minimum. Basically, the energy that can't be efficiently transferred from the battery to the starter, is dissipated as heat. Current squared, times the resistance of the conductor, equals the watts wasted as heat. The current required to spin the starter remains constant. The larger the conductor, the less the resistance. It's the one constant you can control. This of course needs to be tempered with a little common sense. You can't practically use a cable the diameter of your arm, or your short arm, for that matter! There has to be point that you need to say " f?%k it, that's big enough". Also, don't cheap out on the lugs on the ends of the cable, or how you attach them. Some folks swear by soldered on lugs, but a properly prepped and crimped lug is a tried and trued method. But by crimped, I mean crimped via a purpose built, properly sized die, ratcheting crimper. Not a pair of channel locks, or giving it a smack with a cold chisel.