HarleyTechTalk

Technical Forums => General => Topic started by: carolinayarddog on January 02, 2020, 07:30:08 AM

Title: bike wont start
Post by: carolinayarddog on January 02, 2020, 07:30:08 AM
12 Street Glide, new battery 1 month old. Charged overnight, switched on, normal lights and sequence, hit starter, few clicks, bike goes totally black, no lights no clicks. Took battery to Advance Auto, checked out okay. Trying to determine if it is something I can fix or if it's shop time

TIA
Title: Re: bike wont start
Post by: Coyote on January 02, 2020, 07:44:11 AM
If the battery is good and everything loses power when you hit start then you've got a bad cable. Use a DVM. Neg dvm lead on the battery neg post. Pos dvm lead on the starter power post and see what it does when you hit the starter button. If it drops way down, replace your main positive cable. If not, check your battery ground cable. (I'd be checking them both either way)
Title: Re: bike wont start
Post by: calif phil on January 02, 2020, 07:57:36 AM
I bet the cables are just loose at the battery. 
Title: Re: bike wont start
Post by: carolinayarddog on January 02, 2020, 08:09:23 AM
Phil thanks. Checked cables before removing battery; snug. Coyote looking at the cables i could not immediately see the other ends; is replacement going to require a tear down that is beyond a non techie?
Title: Re: bike wont start
Post by: Hossamania on January 02, 2020, 08:09:42 AM
.
Title: Re: bike wont start
Post by: Coyote on January 02, 2020, 08:16:18 AM
Quote from: carolinayarddog on January 02, 2020, 08:09:23 AM
Phil thanks. Checked cables before removing battery; snug. Coyote looking at the cables i could not immediately see the other ends; is replacement going to require a tear down that is beyond a non techie?

Well it's a matter of perspective I guess but I would rate that work as pretty easy on a touring bike.

The post on the starter with the large battery cable attached is hot all the time so take care not to short it to ground. If you decide to change the cables, make sure to disconnect the battery neg first, then the pos cable. Change cables and install in reverse order.

If you did not have this issue before  swapping batteries, I'd check that connection at the starter (since you say the other end is tight).  Make sure to disconnect the neg battery cable while you check/tighten it.
Title: Re: bike wont start
Post by: carolinayarddog on January 02, 2020, 08:32:48 AM
Hoss your profile showed on this thread but no reply text
Title: Re: bike wont start
Post by: fleetmechanic on January 02, 2020, 08:57:50 AM
The nut on the ground cable on the post on the frame in front of the battery can get loose too.
Title: Re: bike wont start
Post by: Hossamania on January 02, 2020, 09:55:28 AM
Quote from: carolinayarddog on January 02, 2020, 08:32:48 AM
Hoss your profile showed on this thread but no reply text

I had posted a response, but deleted it as Phil beat me to it. I agree with the answers that followed, I lean toward it being a loose connection somewhere.
You could try jumping it too. Even though the battery tested good, sometimes they aren't. It's rare, but not as rare as you'd think.
Title: Re: bike wont start
Post by: Pete_Vit on January 02, 2020, 10:48:25 AM
Quote from: calif phil on January 02, 2020, 07:57:36 AM
I bet the cables are just loose at the battery.
:agree: been there  :embarrassed:
Title: Re: bike wont start
Post by: Pirsch Fire Wagon on January 02, 2020, 10:49:35 AM
You can use the DVOM on the (+) Battery Connection on the STARTER while cranking to determine voltage drop. Anything less than 10vdc  you cave a Cable / Connection Problem - Could be either (+) or (-). Recheck Torque on Battery Lugs. No Voltage Measured, Switch or System relay as well. Just for S&G - Check the Battery Voltage as well to ensure it is, in fact, charged - 12.6 or greater.
Title: Re: bike wont start
Post by: kd on January 02, 2020, 10:57:52 AM
Tightening cables can mean nothing if they aren't clean.  A loose connection will burn the clean contact so it may feel snug but not pass the required current.  If you can see the connections when it clicks you will likely see or smell a puff of smoke or see the arc.
Title: Re: bike wont start
Post by: Sycho01 on January 02, 2020, 12:04:55 PM
I have seen cables that were tight and clean on both sides of the connection points but were sulfated on the inside. Use an ohm meter on the cables as a last resort.
Title: Re: bike wont start
Post by: Hossamania on January 02, 2020, 02:55:23 PM
Is this the first time this battery has been used to start the bike? Your op mentioned it was charged, and then tried to start.
Title: Re: bike wont start
Post by: smoserx1 on January 02, 2020, 04:05:36 PM
Hook your test instrument up (DVOM, analog meter or whatever) so its leads are touching JUST the terminal posts of the battery but NOT any parts of either cable.  Hit your starter and see how much voltage drop you get.  Now repeat this test but this time you want your test instrument leads touching only an uninsulated part of the cables (like cable the terminals) and NOT any part of the battery terminals.  See what the voltage drop is when you attempt to start.  A large voltage drop in the first test would seem to me to indicate a bad battery.  A large voltage drop in the second test would seem to me bad cables, bad battery/cable connections or bad terminal crimps on the cables.  You can also do the second test at other places, like the positive connection to the starter or the ground to the frame, as mentioned previously.
Title: Re: bike wont start
Post by: Panzer on January 02, 2020, 06:18:52 PM
Corrosion is not your friend.
Keep us posted.
Title: Re: bike wont start
Post by: carolinayarddog on January 02, 2020, 08:05:21 PM
Guys thanks so much for the suggestions; stopped by my indie and found I would have to pull the starter to get to the ground cable; way over my head, so i will be taking it to the shop tomorrow; let you know what he finds

Yarddog

I'm not as young as I used to be, and I was pretty old then
Title: Re: bike wont start
Post by: 92flhtcu on January 03, 2020, 05:26:53 AM
a one month old battery is not new ......
Title: Re: bike wont start
Post by: roadkingdresser on January 04, 2020, 04:01:50 AM
In my experience, the ground wire is held on by the rear bolt holding the starter. Can't see why you would have to take the starter off?
Title: Re: bike wont start
Post by: a_disalvo on January 04, 2020, 07:01:30 AM
Reading original post, slowly, the bike clicks and than goes black!!! sounds like the main breaker is kicking. Pull the battery out and check for frayed wires. Frank
Title: Re: bike wont start
Post by: Coyote on January 04, 2020, 07:16:34 AM
There is no breaker on his bike.
Title: Re: bike wont start
Post by: fbn ent on January 04, 2020, 07:37:21 AM
Quote from: carolinayarddog on January 02, 2020, 08:05:21 PM
Guys thanks so much for the suggestions; stopped by my indie and found I would have to pull the starter to get to the ground cable; way over my head, so i will be taking it to the shop tomorrow; let you know what he finds

Yarddog

I'm not as young as I used to be, and I was pretty old then

You shouldn't need to pull the starter to check the ground cable connection. That being said, if the ground cable is loose and he tightens it he really should do this for good will IMHO.
Title: Re: bike wont start
Post by: Coyote on January 04, 2020, 07:53:31 AM
I'm not sure but you may be able to access the ground lug by just removing the chrome cover on the starter. If not, removing the starter is only two bolts and the battery cable which needs to be checked anyways.

   [attach=0,msg1328835]
Title: Re: bike wont start
Post by: fbn ent on January 04, 2020, 08:49:45 AM
Coyote...When did they move the ground to that location? That grounding has been pretty problematic on Sportsters.  :doh:
Title: Re: bike wont start
Post by: Finn on January 04, 2020, 10:13:26 AM
Was the battery load tested or just voltage measured?
Title: Re: bike wont start
Post by: crock on January 05, 2020, 06:19:13 AM
If you have to replace the cables go big or go home. It's amazing the difference in cranking with good stock cables and big aftermarket ones in my experience
Title: Re: bike wont start
Post by: PoorUB on January 05, 2020, 08:24:42 AM
I think you guys trying to help are  :horse: . I think Carolina tossed in the towel from his last post. It maybe is not a big deal to most of us, and my bet is his indy will have it running in no time, but sometimes a person has to admit their limitations!
Title: Re: bike wont start
Post by: Dan89flstc on January 05, 2020, 10:22:39 AM
If you can see the ground cable bolt, you can test the ground.

Put one voltmeter probe on the negative battery post (not cable terminal), the other probe to the ground cable bolt head, engage the starter and read the voltage.

If it reads more than about .3 volts then the ground is not good.
Title: Re: bike wont start
Post by: Hossamania on January 05, 2020, 11:19:53 AM
Good for future info, but the op has shipped the bike off to the shop.
Title: Re: bike wont start
Post by: Dan89flstc on January 05, 2020, 01:10:37 PM
Quote from: Hossamania on January 05, 2020, 11:19:53 AM
Good for future info, but the op has shipped the bike off to the shop.

He can show this thread to his mechanic, then his mechanic will know what to do... :pop:
Title: Re: bike wont start
Post by: Hossamania on January 05, 2020, 01:13:07 PM
Quote from: Dan89flstc on January 05, 2020, 01:10:37 PM
Quote from: Hossamania on January 05, 2020, 11:19:53 AM
Good for future info, but the op has shipped the bike off to the shop.

He can show this thread to his mechanic, then his mechanic will know what to do... :pop:

Let's hope his mechanic doesn't need our help!
Title: Re: bike wont start
Post by: carolinayarddog on January 13, 2020, 10:27:27 AM
UPDATE; towed bike to shop, left it for a week; told them not to rush, because I did not want this to recur in the Everglades or on an interstate; he could not duplicate the problem; checked all relays, cleaned the contacts where necessary, pulled fairing to check wiring, found no issue with the ignition knob; perhaps i had corrosion on the cables (forgot to clean when i installed the new battery). As we used to say at AT&T, NTF (no trouble found) or CCWT (came clear while testing). Will hopefully NOT have any more updates.  Thanks so much for all the suggestions, especially the ones that included pics

Yarddog

Title: Re: bike wont start
Post by: fbn ent on January 13, 2020, 10:39:04 AM
Well, glad it's running now. :up: An answer as to what fixed it would have been a nice thing. Hope it didn't cost you too much!
Title: Re: bike wont start
Post by: carolinayarddog on January 13, 2020, 12:03:30 PM
fb, I have known my indy for over 10 years. he only charged me an hour labor
Title: Re: bike wont start
Post by: fbn ent on January 13, 2020, 12:37:24 PM
 :up:
Title: Re: bike wont start
Post by: Pete_Vit on January 13, 2020, 01:01:07 PM
that's great, but as you eluded to...I'd hate the fact they cannot re create or find the problem with it not starting, gives me an uneasy feeling - but that's me - best of luck  :up:
Title: Re: bike wont start
Post by: kd on January 13, 2020, 02:07:00 PM
Recheck the ground wire under the rear of the fuel tank on the frame backbone.  When it comes loose it can be intermittent but causes the symptoms you describe. It's easy to access by popping the seat off.
Title: Re: bike wont start
Post by: carolinayarddog on January 14, 2020, 07:47:41 AM
KD dont see anything that looks like a ground wire behind the tank; I did remove the cables and file cleaned the ends and made sure they were snug when I reattached them
Title: Re: bike wont start
Post by: kd on January 14, 2020, 11:52:57 AM
There's a wire secured to the backbone of the frame on the touring models I have looked at that is under the tank but visible with the seat off.  It comes loose and causes all kinds of problems.  It may be your year doesn't have it if you can't see it. I don't remember the newest model I've seen it on but after having problems my eye always goes to it now.
Title: Re: bike wont start
Post by: fleetmechanic on January 14, 2020, 04:19:15 PM
 :agree:
See our note in Post #7.  We've seen this on a couple of 2010 and  1- 2011 police models.  It's a flange nut and may not have a lockwasher.
Title: Re: bike wont start
Post by: 1workinman on January 14, 2020, 04:28:55 PM
Quote from: Coyote on January 04, 2020, 07:53:31 AM
I'm not sure but you may be able to access the ground lug by just removing the chrome cover on the starter. If not, removing the starter is only two bolts and the battery cable which needs to be checked anyways.

   [attach=0,msg1328835]
This starter is similar to the one that is on my Dodge truck 5.9 cummins as far as the way it made . I have in the past pulled off the solenoid cover and cleaned the plunger and the contacts before when I was having starter problems . In the past I have slivered soldered the contacts and refaced them back when now days I just replace them . Checking the voltage of a circuit  under load is what way I prefer to do it . The bigger cables is not a bad idea on a big high compression motor also
Title: Re: bike wont start
Post by: carolinayarddog on January 14, 2020, 04:57:31 PM
If someone can direct me to a tutorial on how to post pictures, i will pull the seat so that someone can point out that ground wire there; tried doing a search on here but no luck
Title: Re: bike wont start
Post by: kd on January 14, 2020, 05:13:57 PM
Take the picture and put in a file in your documents.  Click on the Add Attachment and browse. that'll allow you to chose that file and click on the pic and it will load.  From your phone you browse your photo file and click on it and it will load it. 

If you have the seat off you will see the flange nut that fleetmechanic describes just up under the tank from the rear where the seat clips under. If you see the wires going up there follow with your finger and it will end at the nut.   
Title: Re: bike wont start
Post by: carolinayarddog on January 15, 2020, 06:00:53 AM
Finn he said he checked it; not sure to answer your question; he does have over ten years experience and I have seen him do complete frame swaps on several occasions, so...
The black ground battery cable on my bike is under the starter; I just pulled the starter cover off and tried to get to it with my socket knuckle; nope. I will likely schedule an appointment to have the starter pulled and the ground cable connection checked. I was able to determine with a long screwdriver it was not loose