It appears that the hydraulic clutches need much more attention than before. I now personally know three people that lost their clutch at high elevations (6,000 ft and above). For two of them, they had the bikes towed to Tucson or Phoenix where the dealership simply changed the hydraulic fluid. After that and traveling at even higher elevations for the rest of the trip, no clutch problems!
Mine exhibits the issue overnight when in high elevations. Next morning, no clutch. Pumping vigorously for 10 minutes restores it to where I start the engine and put it into gear.
I don't want to remove the right muffler, loosen the cross-over, remove the bolt that affixes the header to the transmission, and loosen the four header nuts just to remove the decorative cover every time I check/change my clutch hydraulic fluid. I need to do it again now, I think, 3rd time since new on this 2019 FLHTK. (I don't know for sure because I only experience the issues at high elevations and I live at 500 ft. (I have a hydraulic fluid moisture tester coming today from Amazon, I'll know for sure this afternoon)
The cover is plastic and appears to be simply decorative. I'd like to whittle on it so it can be removed without all the exhaust work.
Has anyone done this? How'd it work out?
Hi, when it happens try undoing the clutch master cylinder screws to equalise the pressure in the reservoir and slowly pump up the clutch then re-seal the cover. try that good luck Max
QuoteHas anyone done this? How'd it work out?
I've seen pix/post elsewhere of it being done and working well, it's the sort of thing I'd do if the situation arose :teeth:
Quote from: FSG on August 21, 2021, 06:08:53 PM
QuoteHas anyone done this? How'd it work out?
I've seen pix/post elsewhere of it being done and working well, it's the sort of thing I'd do if the situation arose :teeth:
I will absolutely do that! It hadn't occurred to me that pressure in the reservoir could put pressure into the hydraulic line and slave cylinder.
a pic from elsewhere
(https://i.imgur.com/a56oiPe.png)
thanks. I'll be doing that this week.
It's appearing that hydraulic clutch maintenance will be needed more often than they say.
Funny how the clutch on my 2106 Limited worked flawlessly, even at 10,000 feet. The the M8 rolls out and they have a mess again.
How much of the cover must be modified ?
Quote from: markymark on August 24, 2021, 03:02:22 PM
How much of the cover must be modified ?
On my 2019 limited I removed the rubber trim piece at the bottom edge, trimmed about 1/4 " off the bottom and re-glued the trim piece back on.
Just fits behind the my header: Fullsac. Easy peasy
It may need more trimming with the stock header or other aftermarket headers.
I can't seem to get my photos from my phone to this iPad, when I do I'll try to get some pics posted.
:missed:
Pics
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Leaving for Estes Park on Monday to see if simply replacing the slave cylinder O-rings and total replacement of hydraulic fluid fixes my high elevation problem.
But first . . . .
I proved that you can remove the decorative side cover without removing the exhaust. Only removed the heat shield. Then, using a Dremel, cut away the bottom of the cover and bludgeoned it with a hammer and chisel to separate the bottom of the cover from the rest. It did no damage at all to the innards behind the cover.
Now, I can maintain my hydraulic clutch quickly and easily.
I bought a pneumatic sucker-outer to suck the hydraulic fluid from the clutch system. It sucked the master reservoir easily by simply putting the sucking end of the tube into it; but would not suck fluid from the nipple on the slave. (Yes, I cracked it open).
In order to suck out the fluid, I had to pump the clutch lever, each pump pushed a little more fluid into the slave where the sucker-outer removed it.
I was thinking that the sucker-outer should pull the juice out as I added new fluid to the reservoir.
Not happy with how that was going, I used the old tried and true method of squeezing and holding the lever, cracking the nipple, tightening the nipple, and squeezing and holding the lever again . . . over and over and over. Sitting on the motor, I could do all without help, 10 mm wrench in my right hand and clutch lever in my left.
After finishing, it required more pumping of the clutch lever to build up pressure so that the clutch operated normally. That doesn't seem right.
It does seem like the sucker-outer should have pulled the fluid out without having to pump the lever. And for this reason, I don't think I fixed anything. I'm fully expecting to experience the same issues after the first night of camping in Estes Park; just like last year and just like in Yellowstone a few weeks ago. Every morning while the others waited, I had to pump and pump and pump to get the clutch to disengage.
New master cylinder that I ordered hasn't arrived yet and it seems unlikely to do so before Monday when we roll. But if it does arrive, it should be less than an hour to install.
I really think that they could have made the cover a 2-piece affair with a couple of screws that hold it together.
(//)
Empty the system, pull the master cylinder, remove the lever and plunger, and verify both ports in the master cylinder are open & free of debris. The return port is very small, but if it's clogged, it will create issues. Feel/look inside the channel for burrs or scratches. Inspect the seals, replace if you find any tears/rips/holes. Inspect the bleeder screw for blockage. Reassemble, fill the master cylinder, and try using the vacuum assist again with the bleeder screw out 1.5 turns. It should flow freely from top to bottom with the lever in the relaxed position.
That sounds like good advice. If I can't get a new master cylinder, I will do that today and report back. I've never rebuilt a master cylinder of any kind; On cars, it's always been so inexpensive and fool proof to just replace. That's the reason I'm hesitant. Quote from: rigidthumper on September 07, 2021, 03:50:54 AM
Empty the system, pull the master cylinder, remove the lever and plunger, and verify both ports in the master cylinder are open & free of debris. The return port is very small, but if it's clogged, it will create issues. Feel/look inside the channel for burrs or scratches. Inspect the seals, replace if you find any tears/rips/holes. Inspect the bleeder screw for blockage. Reassemble, fill the master cylinder, and try using the vacuum assist again with the bleeder screw out 1.5 turns. It should flow freely from top to bottom with the lever in the relaxed position.
If it was built by a human, it can be fixed by another human :)
AND THIS IS WHY I GLADLY SUPPORT THIS FORUM WITH MY $$$ ! ! ! !
Any other Internet source, people make snap sight-unseen diagnosis and/or their advice is "this is what works for me."
Not here! For over 18 years, I've been depending on HTT to help me when needed for working on my own or others' motorcycles.
Taking the recommendation by rigidthumper, I disassembled to clean the master cylinder. I also purchased a 2019 Harley clutch master cylinder rebuild kit.
The Shop Manual does describe rebuilding, but only with simple instructions: "take it apart and put it back together". DUH.
Nonetheless, I did.
Getting the retainer clip out was somewhat difficult. Getting it back installed after assembly was even harder. My circlip pliers just barely fit down into the hole to reach the clip to squeeze it together.
I cleaned and blew, wiped with soft fabric, cleaned and blew some more. If it was before, the tiny"return port" is definitely not clogged. At least not now!
But the big news is: It's behaving differently now!
Now, when I jiggle the clutch lever, it squirts fluid out the little Return port hole. It never did that before. Big clue that I've done some good.
And when I hooked my sucker-outer to the slave, there was no doubt about it . . . it was sucking fluid from the master cylinder reservoir. LOVE IT!
Finally, when I shut off the spigot and squeezed the clutch lever, it instantly had normal feel and clutch disengagement. No pumping up required as before.
I'm a happy camper (literally) and have full confidence that the first cold morning at 8,000 ft elevation when we crawl out of our tents and prepare to ride to breakfast in Estes Park next Tuesday; no on will have to wait for me to pump up my clutch!
Ken
Quote from: PoorUB on August 22, 2021, 05:02:59 PM
Funny how the clutch on my 2106 Limited worked flawlessly, even at 10,000 feet. The the M8 rolls out and they have a mess again.
And NOW, they've gone back to cable clutch . . . the new ones harder to squeeze than ever. The women hate 'em all over again.
Remember back in 2007 or so when Harley made the easy pull clutch to make them easier for women? Where are those engineers now?
Ken I freaking love your post. I was in a head on that totalled my truck, right leg both wrists and damaged my torso muscles. When I left the Dr after surgery to fuse my ankle, my fantastic wife turned the car around and bought a "personal mobility device" a half hour later, a 2017 Triglide with the same paint as my )08 Ultra and sold the Ultra to a very happy BIL the next day...cheap. If you think working on a regular Harley slave is a bitch you should try it on your back with no suitable lift for a 3 wheeler. Thank the lord for Kevin and Duane's DK custom trike videos. Getting all those exhaust bolts loose to loosen the header is a BIOTCH. I immediately read all I could find from the great folks at HTT and also bought the Muller as my bike had sat since 2017 when the original owner passed before putting a thousand mile on it , I could barely hold the clutch in at light with my banged up nerve damaged hands. I will pull that cover and trim it next time I bleed it. I spent a whole week a couple minutes at a time a second time decatting the head pipe. The damn thing was heating up the steel in my ankle as we had two months of 90 degree weather. The damn surgeon used a different kind of metal as the plate in my head and the dissimilar metals caused corrosion that triggered the gout in my ...well ...dork. Next time I will tell him to cut the bastard off, give me a peg leg, and by a Parrot for my shoulder so I look even more like an old Coastie! Semper Paratus and to all the "Woke pussies" out there F off and thanks fer nuthin'!
Well that post had just about a little of everything. Good luck Coastie!
Thanks Mr Blocker. Tell Clint and John I said Howdy! :missed: I got yer pitchers on the wall of my deer blind BTW, Next to Roy's!
I want to follow-up on my clutch problem at high elevations.
The new master cylinder kit and probably more importantly, clearing the "return port" in the master appears to have totally solved my clutch problem. It now acts totally normally! To make sure, my friend and I took a week-long motorcycle camping trip to Estes Park where we camped at over 8,000 ft elevation. First morning, I'd forgotten all about testing until I squeezed the clutch and started the motor. HEY! I forgot . . . It totally works!
I'm a happy camper.
Cutting away the bottom of the metal protective cover doesn't seem to have any detrimental effects at all. I was a bit concerned that exposing the AIM clutch actuator slave cylinder to the hot exhaust only an inch or so away might cause an issue. But it didn't. Droning along US 287 for hours in 95+ degree heat had no effect on it whatsoever. And at high elevations in the low 40's in the mornings, clutch actuation is no longer a concern.
It was possible to cut away enough of the bottom of the decorative cover to remove it without touching the headers, flanges, mufflers, etc. Did it with a Dremel and the small grinder wheel. It was an ugly process. But once the cover was removed, I prettied it up and installed the rubber trim back onto it. Looks perfectly normal to the casual observer.
Thank you, HTT.
For those that have cut the cover...
Doesn't that damage the chrome plating and lead to rust and/or chrome peeling?
Quote from: hattitude on February 13, 2022, 06:20:34 PMFor those that have cut the cover...
Doesn't that damage the chrome plating and lead to rust and/or chrome peeling?
Maybe
You could always spray paint the cut area and replace the rubber trim piece 25800109
:missed:
Quote from: hattitude on February 13, 2022, 06:20:34 PMFor those that have cut the cover...
Doesn't that damage the chrome plating and lead to rust and/or chrome peeling?
as well as allow rain water rolling down the road to get on the slave cylinder and just up under the cover possibly leading to other issues? its not just for decoration. :missed:
Quote from: hattitude on February 13, 2022, 06:20:34 PMFor those that have cut the cover...
Doesn't that damage the chrome plating and lead to rust and/or chrome peeling?
I`ll let you know in a year or so...
Quote from: Oclaf on May 09, 2022, 08:48:17 PMQuote from: hattitude on February 13, 2022, 06:20:34 PMFor those that have cut the cover...
Doesn't that damage the chrome plating and lead to rust and/or chrome peeling?
as well as allow rain water rolling down the road to get on the slave cylinder and just up under the cover possibly leading to other issues? its not just for decoration. :missed:
Its no different than a brake caliper that are exposed to the elements. It is just for aesthetics.