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aim-tamachi SLAVE CYLINDER

Started by FSG, September 27, 2018, 11:51:58 AM

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HDDOC

I will have to order one, My hands are not good even with the lighter pull of the 2019.   Thanks
2019 Tri Glide

HDDOC

Quote from: MakoHD on March 07, 2019, 08:30:23 PM
Yes I have, on my personal bike that's the example I posted.

Did you have to remove the exhaust for install   ?   Thanks I am on a Tri Glide
2019 Tri Glide

MakoHD

Well on mine I did it while I was replacing the transmission, but on my fathers bike I have a D&D pipe and I had to loosen in up and pull it back to be able to do it.

calif phil

Quote from: HDDOC on March 08, 2019, 05:17:06 AM
I will have to order one, My hands are not good even with the lighter pull of the 2019.   Thanks

I have been selling quite a few of the PSR levers. you can adjust them so the lever reach is not as far.  It's a great option for people with hand issues. 

Maddo Snr

Quote from: HDDOC on March 09, 2019, 03:41:38 AM
Quote from: MakoHD on March 07, 2019, 08:30:23 PM
Yes I have, on my personal bike that's the example I posted.

Did you have to remove the exhaust for install   ?   Thanks I am on a Tri Glide

Mufflers need to come off. Header just needs loosening.
2018 FLHX 107
Rinehart 45s, SE cleaner, TTS MasterTune. 92/108

Maddo Snr

Quote from: FSG on September 27, 2018, 11:51:58 AM
for the M8 but ........

what will it do for the Trannie to Primary Oil Transfer ??????????????????

https://aim-tamachi.com/collections/light-force-slave-cylinder



Funny, no-one replied to FSGs original post.  :hyst:

Gaz, I had a AIM cylinder turn up this week and did a few tests. The design of the AIM S/C is completely different to the OEM job. Where the OEM job tries to seal around the area where the venting occurs, the AIM piston has no sealing whatsoever around the spigot which pushes the clutch actuator rod.

As the OEM piston pushes the rod it forces the seal tightly around the mating surfaces, as the AIM spigot pushes the rod it does the exact opposite and opens up the oil/air bleed paths in that area.

I fitted the AIM kit to a bike (known transferrer) this week (plus the milled oil path and an extra bleed hole between S/C casting faces). Owner does a lot of miles, we'll see how it goes.
.
2018 FLHX 107
Rinehart 45s, SE cleaner, TTS MasterTune. 92/108

PoorUB

I am an adult?? When did that happen, and how do I make it stop?!

Maddo Snr

Quote from: PoorUB on March 09, 2019, 01:54:48 PM
Quote from: Maddo Snr on March 09, 2019, 01:45:07 PM
Funny, no-one replied to FSGs original post.  :hyst:

Read post 8

FSG: "what will it do for gearbox-primary transfer?"
AIM: "we are unaware of the issue"

Hardly addresses FSGs question...

AIMs reply is straight out of the MoCos playbook. AIMs would've done their testing you'd think, they're hardly going to spruik a cure and then get their butts sued off when it doesn't cure a rogue bike.  :nix:
2018 FLHX 107
Rinehart 45s, SE cleaner, TTS MasterTune. 92/108

HDDOC

Quote from: calif phil on March 09, 2019, 10:09:50 AM
Quote from: HDDOC on March 08, 2019, 05:17:06 AM
I will have to order one, My hands are not good even with the lighter pull of the 2019.   Thanks

I have been selling quite a few of the PSR levers. you can adjust them so the lever reach is not as far.  It's a great option for people with hand issues.


I had the Oberion Lever on my 2017 Tri Glide and it worked well , I want a lighter pull when I get caught in traffic , the hog lever did little for that.  Thanks
2019 Tri Glide

Bigs

The AIM is a lot easier to pull in the clutch than stock but what I like most about it is the friction zone - a lot greater than stock. I have it on a 17' RK.
   Bigs

oldbag

this thing is great! it makes a huge difference...I am starting to like this bike...
2019 FLHXS
there is nothing like a good tune...

Ken R

For those of us that actually use our clutches for  more than gear changing, I'm looking forward to receiving my AIM slave cylinder.  Mine is on order from California Phil. 
I do a lot of parking lot practice and skills competition.  Wide friction zone and easier pull are almost mandatory.  IMO, HD took a step backwards to about 2004 with their hard-to-pull-and-hold hydraulic clutches.  Women hate them!  Remember when the "Easy Clutch" came out?  Harley recognized that women actually ride their own bikes.  So the came out with new ramps and springs to make the clutches manageable by women.  They traded reduced clutch effort for reduced plate separation.  And no one complained that I know of. 


Thermodyne

The light force cylinder does as advertised, it makes the clutch pull light.  But it leaves the friction zone a little far out and narrow.

This is your fix for that



Best $10 you'll ever spend on an M8 clutch.  Moves the friction zone in towards the grip and makes it two or three times as wide.   Its just a few thousands thicker than what's in there from the factory, but it makes a world of difference.

Its oem on the 19's so only the 17 and 18's can make use of it.  But its well worth the $10 bucks and hours worth of your time it takes to install. 

stro1965

I installed another new spring seat last night, this time for my buddy on his '18 Street Glide. Took less than 45 minutes and he's super happy with the change.

To The Max

Just put one on my mates 17 sg cvo and he loves it silky smooth better control and no difference when dropping it into gear hot or cold  :SM:  :up:

Nastytls

Quote from: Thermodyne on April 26, 2019, 06:24:00 PM
The light force cylinder does as advertised, it makes the clutch pull light.  But it leaves the friction zone a little far out and narrow.

This is your fix for that



Best $10 you'll ever spend on an M8 clutch.  Moves the friction zone in towards the grip and makes it two or three times as wide.   Its just a few thousands thicker than what's in there from the factory, but it makes a world of difference.

Its oem on the 19's so only the 17 and 18's can make use of it.  But its well worth the $10 bucks and hours worth of your time it takes to install.

What is that and how does it change the friction location of the clutch?

Thermodyne

Quote from: Nastytls on April 28, 2019, 03:06:23 AM
Quote from: Thermodyne on April 26, 2019, 06:24:00 PM
The light force cylinder does as advertised, it makes the clutch pull light.  But it leaves the friction zone a little far out and narrow.

This is your fix for that



Best $10 you'll ever spend on an M8 clutch.  Moves the friction zone in towards the grip and makes it two or three times as wide.   Its just a few thousands thicker than what's in there from the factory, but it makes a world of difference.

Its oem on the 19's so only the 17 and 18's can make use of it.  But its well worth the $10 bucks and hours worth of your time it takes to install.

What is that and how does it change the friction location of the clutch?

Its the shim/spacer/seat that sits under the damper spring.  And it moves the damper spring a little higher in the stack to create more preload  (to the left sitting on the scooter)  I would speculate that the spring was not fully compressed with the original spacer.  What we call friction zone, is that little spring creating some load on the plates.  So a wider zone would indicate that there was a greater amount of load being applied.

The MoCo added these to the clutch on the 19's.  But didn't make it widely known.

FSG

this pic will give you an idea as to where it sits


Thermodyne

Its the first piece that slides in over the hub


Ken R

April 30, 2019, 03:54:21 PM #69 Last Edit: April 30, 2019, 04:44:13 PM by Ken R
OK.  As a motorcycle skills competitor, I hated to give up my tried and true cable clutch with VPC and Mueller when I purchased the 2019 FLHTK.  But I wanted a new motorcycle, not so for competition but for the long distance camping trip touring I do every year.  So I now have a 2019.  I must admit that I've owned it for 5 weeks and have only ridden it from my front driveway to my rear driveway (around the block).  That's because I stripped it down for painting and it's taking time to get it dressed again.  It's still naked in my workshop on the table lift.

In tight coned patterns, clutch control is quite important.  Every pattern and every competition course is ridden mostly in the friction zone.   The stock hydraulic clutch friction zone is extremely narrow in addition to requiring over 14 pounds of pull at the lever ball tip to squeeze.  And unlike a cable clutch, a hydraulic clutch pushes back at 100% effort all the time.  The inherent friction of a cable clutch helps one's hand to hold a steady clutch and also to keep to squeezed while stopped.  Girls hate hydraulic clutches because of the effort to keep them squeezed at traffic lights.  Some must use 2 hands!     I was concerned that my motorcop/Civilian skills competition days might be over.  Would I ever master the hydraulic clutch?  Most competitors hated them and cursed the change.

But maybe not!  Maybe an AIM Slave assembly would help.
I bought an AIM Slave Cylinder from California Phil's.  (I buy almost all my aftermarket stuff from Phil and recommend him and his business highly.). 
Yesterday, I installed it.  (even though I am still waiting for the painted parts) 

The hardest part is getting the exhaust out of the way.  But it doesn't have to be completely removed.  Right side floorboard out of the way, heat shields off, removed the rear exhaust flange nuts from the studs and loosened the front ones.  Removed the transmission mounting nut and right-side muffler.  Loosened the crossover exhaust clamp and the exhaust moved just far enough to get the decorative cover off the transmission to expose the slave cylinder.

Only 3 bolts hold the slave cylinder onto the transmission side plate.  Remove those and the entire slave cylinder assembly with hydraulic hose still attached can be removed between the engine and frame rails.  This is good because I didn't want to drip any DOT4 on the frame or other parts if disconnection of the hydraulic line was required first.   With the hydraulic slave separate from the motorcycle, I could detach the hydraulic line and quickly attach it to the AIM assembly.  Hardly a drop dripped and none touched the motorcycle. 

Reinstallation of the AIM slave cylinder is easy and quick with the three mounting screws.  No adjustment necessary.

Then, I began to bleed the hydraulics by pulling a vacuum with a horse syringe while keeping the master cylinder full.   It seemed to be the most reliable way to bleed. 
HOWEVER, I think I sucked a little too much fluid once causing air to enter at the master. DOH!   :oops:
Had to start all over, but first gently squeezing the clutch lever to see if I could get the suspected air expelled without vacuuming.    I wasn't satisfied, so I vacuumed again, paying more attention to keeping the reservoir full  this time. 

RESULTS:
OK.  Even though I didn't measure the clutch plate movement before changing the slave cylinder, I wanted to see what the movement was like afterwards.  Mounted my dial indicator and began testing. 
At first it was only .035".  The "squeeze" effort was only 7-8 pounds measured at the ball tip of the lever.   I squeezed and released about 50 times.  The friction zone moved farther away from the grip as I progressed At the same time, of course, the pressure plate movement increased to .045".  This is good.  I must have still had a tiny bit of air in the system.   It seemed to park at .045" after that. 

Another test was to see how long it would hold .045".  I clamped the lever to the grip overnight.  It held .045" for about 12  hours without any relaxation.   I removed the clamp.

Eight hours later, out of curiosity, I squeezed to the grip again.  Pressure plate only went to .035".   HMMMMM. 

I squeezed and relaxed about a hundred times at the rate of about one per second.  (My wrist is getting tired).  But by the time I finished, the pressure plate movement had increased to .062" !

Left it alone for an hour and squeezed again.  Still .062"!     I dunno, maybe there are still some tiny bubbles of air left in the line and they're rising/working their way to the master cylinder reservoir.   I'll let it rest a few more hours and test again. 

Since the slave is so much lower than the master, maybe the bubbles are rising in the hydraulic line quicker than I can suck the fluid out of the bleed spigot on the slave.  If that's the case, any remaining air should eventually rise to the master; effectively bleeding itself.  Won't it? :SM:

So that's where I am now.  Painter called and said I could pick up the motorcycles clothes (fenders, tank, tourpac, saddlebags, side covers, etc.) tomorrow.  I'm pretty excited about that. 
In the meantime, I'll keep playing with the clutch. 

Dmerch

I replaced the clutch cushion spring seat in my '19 RGS with the version for the '17/18 clutch. It's .015 thinner than the '19 spring seat. Moved the clutch lever away from the grip about double the amount it was before, feels much better.

Ken R

I hope you can report back on that.

Quote from: Maddo Snr on March 09, 2019, 01:45:07 PM
Quote from: FSG on September 27, 2018, 11:51:58 AM
for the M8 but ........

what will it do for the Trannie to Primary Oil Transfer ??????????????????

https://aim-tamachi.com/collections/light-force-slave-cylinder


Funny, no-one replied to FSGs original post.  :hyst:

Gaz, I had a AIM cylinder turn up this week and did a few tests. The design of the AIM S/C is completely different to the OEM job. Where the OEM job tries to seal around the area where the venting occurs, the AIM piston has no sealing whatsoever around the spigot which pushes the clutch actuator rod.

As the OEM piston pushes the rod it forces the seal tightly around the mating surfaces, as the AIM spigot pushes the rod it does the exact opposite and opens up the oil/air bleed paths in that area.

I fitted the AIM kit to a bike (known transferrer) this week (plus the milled oil path and an extra bleed hole between S/C casting faces). Owner does a lot of miles, we'll see how it goes.
.

ziggy24

I have a 2019 FLHXS and found that the clutch engagement was almost to the end of  the lever stroke. In other words, while sitting in traffic, my fingers where always almost extended trying to feather the clutch. Not sure about the 10$ spacer being installed at the factory, as mine was terrible. Short distance between engaged and dis-engaged and all the way out to engage the clutch.

I installed the AIM lite force and it made a world of difference! Engagement is closer to the bars and a whole lot lighter, to the point of, I thought I hadn't bled it enough! Neutral is not a problem and no clutch drag either.

And  FYI, it uses the stock cover, and yes on the stock head pipe, it needs to be moved out of the way to get the cover off.

stro1965

Quote from: Ken R on April 30, 2019, 03:54:21 PM
OK.  As a motorcycle skills competitor, I hated to give up my tried and true cable clutch with VPC and Mueller when I purchased the 2019 FLHTK.  But I wanted a new motorcycle, not so for competition but for the long distance camping trip touring I do every year.  So I now have a 2019.  I must admit that I've owned it for 5 weeks and have only ridden it from my front driveway to my rear driveway (around the block).  That's because I stripped it down for painting and it's taking time to get it dressed again.  It's still naked in my workshop on the table lift.

In tight coned patterns, clutch control is quite important.  Every pattern and every competition course is ridden mostly in the friction zone.   The stock hydraulic clutch friction zone is extremely narrow in addition to requiring over 14 pounds of pull at the lever ball tip to squeeze.  And unlike a cable clutch, a hydraulic clutch pushes back at 100% effort all the time.  The inherent friction of a cable clutch helps one's hand to hold a steady clutch and also to keep to squeezed while stopped.  Girls hate hydraulic clutches because of the effort to keep them squeezed at traffic lights.  Some must use 2 hands!     I was concerned that my motorcop/Civilian skills competition days might be over.  Would I ever master the hydraulic clutch?  Most competitors hated them and cursed the change.

But maybe not!  Maybe an AIM Slave assembly would help.
I bought an AIM Slave Cylinder from California Phil's.  (I buy almost all my aftermarket stuff from Phil and recommend him and his business highly.). 
Yesterday, I installed it.  (even though I am still waiting for the painted parts) 

The hardest part is getting the exhaust out of the way.  But it doesn't have to be completely removed.  Right side floorboard out of the way, heat shields off, removed the rear exhaust flange nuts from the studs and loosened the front ones.  Removed the transmission mounting nut and right-side muffler.  Loosened the crossover exhaust clamp and the exhaust moved just far enough to get the decorative cover off the transmission to expose the slave cylinder.

Only 3 bolts hold the slave cylinder onto the transmission side plate.  Remove those and the entire slave cylinder assembly with hydraulic hose still attached can be removed between the engine and frame rails.  This is good because I didn't want to drip any DOT4 on the frame or other parts if disconnection of the hydraulic line was required first.   With the hydraulic slave separate from the motorcycle, I could detach the hydraulic line and quickly attach it to the AIM assembly.  Hardly a drop dripped and none touched the motorcycle. 

Reinstallation of the AIM slave cylinder is easy and quick with the three mounting screws.  No adjustment necessary.

Then, I began to bleed the hydraulics by pulling a vacuum with a horse syringe while keeping the master cylinder full.   It seemed to be the most reliable way to bleed. 
HOWEVER, I think I sucked a little too much fluid once causing air to enter at the master. DOH!   :oops:
Had to start all over, but first gently squeezing the clutch lever to see if I could get the suspected air expelled without vacuuming.    I wasn't satisfied, so I vacuumed again, paying more attention to keeping the reservoir full  this time. 

RESULTS:
OK.  Even though I didn't measure the clutch plate movement before changing the slave cylinder, I wanted to see what the movement was like afterwards.  Mounted my dial indicator and began testing. 
At first it was only .035".  The "squeeze" effort was only 7-8 pounds measured at the ball tip of the lever.   I squeezed and released about 50 times.  The friction zone moved farther away from the grip as I progressed At the same time, of course, the pressure plate movement increased to .045".  This is good.  I must have still had a tiny bit of air in the system.   It seemed to park at .045" after that. 

Another test was to see how long it would hold .045".  I clamped the lever to the grip overnight.  It held .045" for about 12  hours without any relaxation.   I removed the clamp.

Eight hours later, out of curiosity, I squeezed to the grip again.  Pressure plate only went to .035".   HMMMMM. 

I squeezed and relaxed about a hundred times at the rate of about one per second.  (My wrist is getting tired).  But by the time I finished, the pressure plate movement had increased to .062" !

Left it alone for an hour and squeezed again.  Still .062"!     I dunno, maybe there are still some tiny bubbles of air left in the line and they're rising/working their way to the master cylinder reservoir.   I'll let it rest a few more hours and test again. 

Since the slave is so much lower than the master, maybe the bubbles are rising in the hydraulic line quicker than I can suck the fluid out of the bleed spigot on the slave.  If that's the case, any remaining air should eventually rise to the master; effectively bleeding itself.  Won't it? :SM:

So that's where I am now.  Painter called and said I could pick up the motorcycles clothes (fenders, tank, tourpac, saddlebags, side covers, etc.) tomorrow.  I'm pretty excited about that. 
In the meantime, I'll keep playing with the clutch.

Hey Ken, I forget which one of our mutual friends described the hydraulic clutch friction zone as a "moving target", but I agree with him completely. I know on mine, the hotter the clutch gets, the further off the grip until it engages. That said, I'm a convert and a believer and I don't miss my cable. 

Maddo Snr

May 09, 2019, 04:01:48 PM #74 Last Edit: May 09, 2019, 05:13:52 PM by FSG
Quote from: Ken R on May 01, 2019, 06:04:26 AM
I hope you can report back on that.

Quote from: Maddo Snr on March 09, 2019, 01:45:07 PM
Quote from: FSG on September 27, 2018, 11:51:58 AM
for the M8 but ........

what will it do for the Trannie to Primary Oil Transfer ??????????????????

https://aim-tamachi.com/collections/light-force-slave-cylinder


Funny, no-one replied to FSGs original post.  :hyst:

Gaz, I had a AIM cylinder turn up this week and did a few tests. The design of the AIM S/C is completely different to the OEM job. Where the OEM job tries to seal around the area where the venting occurs, the AIM piston has no sealing whatsoever around the spigot which pushes the clutch actuator rod.

As the OEM piston pushes the rod it forces the seal tightly around the mating surfaces, as the AIM spigot pushes the rod it does the exact opposite and opens up the oil/air bleed paths in that area.

I fitted the AIM kit to a bike (known transferrer) this week (plus the milled oil path and an extra bleed hole between S/C casting faces). Owner does a lot of miles, we'll see how it goes.
.

Ken, that bike came in for its 8000km service today.
The owner has been keeping an eye on primary oil height, it hasn't budged.

We have a package now that hasn't failed us yet:
80W140 in the box (just over bottom of dipstick range)
15W50 full-syn in the primary (1/2" under the square notch)
AIM-Tamachi slave
Milled cover
Primary vent.

Rather than do piecemeal fixes we just do the one package for a set price.

p.s. We're currently trialling a sweet looking catch-can/vent system that accepts the gearbox, motor and primary vent hoses and manages the sumping and transferring vent mods in one package.

2018 FLHX 107
Rinehart 45s, SE cleaner, TTS MasterTune. 92/108