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M8 trans fluid leaking in primary

Started by grnrock, February 17, 2017, 02:31:46 PM

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0 Members and 5 Guests are viewing this topic.

rbabos

Quote from: 1FSTRK on May 31, 2017, 05:38:23 AM
The thing to remember is HD has used this vent system on all these bikes starting from the mid 1980's when they went to the wet clutch, so they just need to Identify what they changed on the M-8 that is driving oil from the trans into the primary at higher rpm.

It would be a step backward and I am not sure if there is room inside the M-8 clutch to do it but on the old dry clutch Harley's up through the early EVO's or when a primary belt drive is installed the clutch hub nut gets bored and a seal is installed in it. If this was done you would just need to vent the primary. It will be interesting to see if they figure it out or patch it by going backward.
In this case it would be going forward. :wink: The one and only shovel I worked on, I believe the pushrod had some form of sealing and the primary had it's own venting. Not a bad idea and in many ways the correct way to do things. Slinger also an option but might not be an option due to room. Clearly not worth a damn the way it is in the M8. Like you say, let's see what's coming up for the fix. It would need to be retrofit to the 17s if the 18s come standard with the update.
Ron

Sunny Jim

For what it's worth, my oils were changed at dealer at 1000 miles. I checked te levels myself to ensure every
Thing wa as it should be.
Bike has now done 3000 mile and the gearbox oil needed 4.2 US ounces to bring it up to the right level as per the book.
Just saying.

1FSTRK

The thing that gets me is just like the old comp sprocket, this has worked for over 30 years and they found a way to screw it up. This is not rocket science, I would like to see them actually figure out what change caused it and undo what they actually did to cause it. That would mean they understand how it works.
"Never hang on to a mistake just because you spent time or money making it."

Sunny Jim

My interest is in finding a solution! I have no investment in rubbing their nose in it even though I am not impressed.

1FSTRK

Quote from: Sunny Jim on May 31, 2017, 06:22:39 AM
My interest is in finding a solution! I have no investment in rubbing their nose in it even though I am not impressed.

It has nothing to do with nose rubbing, often patching or fixing a problem without finding and fixing the cause will only lead to the next problem. The 07 comp sprocket is a good example of this, you could have spent hard earned money on every version they came up with until the finally sold something that worked.
"Never hang on to a mistake just because you spent time or money making it."

rbabos

Quote from: 1FSTRK on May 31, 2017, 06:36:29 AM
Quote from: Sunny Jim on May 31, 2017, 06:22:39 AM
My interest is in finding a solution! I have no investment in rubbing their nose in it even though I am not impressed.

It has nothing to do with nose rubbing, often patching or fixing a problem without finding and fixing the cause will only lead to the next problem. The 07 comp sprocket is a good example of this, you could have spent hard earned money on every version they came up with until the finally sold something that worked.
With ideas from somewhere else for a solution, I might add. That only took 7 or so years.
Ron

rbabos

Quote from: 1FSTRK on May 31, 2017, 06:36:29 AM
Quote from: Sunny Jim on May 31, 2017, 06:22:39 AM
My interest is in finding a solution! I have no investment in rubbing their nose in it even though I am not impressed.

It has nothing to do with nose rubbing, often patching or fixing a problem without finding and fixing the cause will only lead to the next problem. The 07 comp sprocket is a good example of this, you could have spent hard earned money on every version they came up with until the finally sold something that worked.
With ideas from somewhere else for a solution, I might add. That only took 7 or so years.
Ron

PoorUB

I get a kick out of it. They take parts that they have been using for years with no issue, change something slightly and something gets screwed up with the change.
Makes you wonder!
I am an adult?? When did that happen, and how do I make it stop?!

rbabos

Quote from: PoorUB on May 31, 2017, 09:14:08 AM
I get a kick out of it. They take parts that they have been using for years with no issue, change something slightly and something gets screwed up with the change.
Makes you wonder!
What makes me wonder is how it was not noticed in all the development and miles of testing? Surely they did fluid changes somewhere along the time frame.
Ron

Bike31

Once serviced few check trans and primary lubes. Why bother unless there's a visible leak? When time for change most drop the used and refill with new.

Who measures drained oil unless you have a special need to do it? Like now for M8 owners.

Any clutch incompatible lube in the trans will be a problem for some if it migrates to the primary.
2017 Sportster 1200 C #79 since 1960

rbabos

Quote from: Bike31 on May 31, 2017, 09:46:38 AM
Once serviced few check trans and primary lubes. Why bother unless there's a visible leak? When time for change most drop the used and refill with new.

Who measures drained oil unless you have a special need to do it? Like now for M8 owners.

Any clutch incompatible lube in the trans will be a problem for some if it migrates to the primary.
So, you giving MoCo a pass on that issue? I sure don't. No way in hell with claimed miles of testing that someone would have noticed it. The smell alone would give it away.
Ron

Bike31

"So, you giving MoCo a pass on that issue? I sure don't. No way in hell with claimed miles of testing that someone would have noticed it. The smell alone would give it away.
Ron"

I don't get your questions. What's with this: "No way in hell with claimed miles of testing that someone would have noticed it."

Maybe you need to back up and think for a change.

And how about supporting this site?
2017 Sportster 1200 C #79 since 1960

Schex3x

May 31, 2017, 11:32:59 AM #62 Last Edit: May 31, 2017, 11:43:39 AM by Schex3x
Quote from: 1FSTRK on May 31, 2017, 06:17:25 AM
this has worked for over 30 years and they found a way to screw it up.

Sounds like me in the early 90's at Mercury Outboard recertification classes, change the design and bring in a whole new set of problems, sad part was that 90% of the changes were to lower production cost only, not improve anything.

Well great, taking the M8 RG on a 5k trip in a few days, already slightly concerned about possible oil pump problems, now this, guess I need to dump the Spectro platinum 6 speed lube out of the trans and use formula+, unless the Spectro is clutch friendly, anyone knows off hand?

edit, just checked, no, but they have platinum STL(sportster trans lube), which is.http://spectro-oils.com/heavy-duty-platinum-stl/

probably just go with the formula+ for now

rbabos

Quote from: Bike31 on May 31, 2017, 11:00:29 AM
"So, you giving MoCo a pass on that issue? I sure don't. No way in hell with claimed miles of testing that someone would have noticed it. The smell alone would give it away.
Ron"

I don't get your questions. What's with this: "No way in hell with claimed miles of testing that someone would have noticed it."

Maybe you need to back up and think for a change.

And how about supporting this site?
You are joking right? :wtf:
Ron

Bike31

No joking and no pass for the MOCO. Let's try to stay on topic as this is important.

Gary
2017 Sportster 1200 C #79 since 1960

Schex3x

Nothing off topic here, evidently Moco's testing was not sufficient, you think they should have overlooked possible transfer issues?

I would think fluids drained should have been measured, and analysis should be routine during testing.

No way this  :turd: should of passed.


Bike31

All I can assume is that HD expected the same results they experienced in prior years. We'll never know if they saw a different result will we? Especially as the new engine developed miles and reached production stage when return revenue $$$$ were anticipated.

Now maybe they'll alert dealers to check fluid levels prior to service to develop feedback on the problem.

I was planning to move to an M8 but will hold back until this is resolved. I've had 57 motorcycles and 14 HD's since 1960 and this is a new one for me.

Gary
2017 Sportster 1200 C #79 since 1960

Rockout Rocker Products

Quote from: Bike31 on May 31, 2017, 09:46:38 AM
Once serviced few check trans and primary lubes. Why bother unless there's a visible leak? When time for change most drop the used and refill with new.

Who measures drained oil unless you have a special need to do it? Like now for M8 owners.

Any clutch incompatible lube in the trans will be a problem for some if it migrates to the primary.

This rings true to me. I have the same A&S clutch in my '15 Limited Low. Have I had any problems? How would I know.... as said it never leaks so I never check it. My bike is out getting dyno tuned along with other things, I'll take a look when I get it back.  :idunno:
www.rockout.biz Stop the top end TAPPING!!

Bike31

I admit to being more than lazy when it comes to checking motorcycle fluids unless the dealer does a service. Now I'm more motivated to.

With aircraft it's a different deal as they consume or leak oil in some cases enough to require monitoring.

I wonder if some volume vendor of HD's messed up a post-test mule build spec and now there's a problem similar to the oil pumps and coolers that were having problems? But maybe it's an OEM design problem just now being noted.

We may never know and as some suggest it will be incorporated as a new and improved feature for 2018.
2017 Sportster 1200 C #79 since 1960

RXBOB

maybe 2019 models,,,,,,,,,,2018 models probably already made ready to ship out

Durwood

Quote from: Rockout Rocker Products on May 31, 2017, 08:06:46 PM
Quote from: Bike31 on May 31, 2017, 09:46:38 AM
Once serviced few check trans and primary lubes. Why bother unless there's a visible leak? When time for change most drop the used and refill with new.

Who measures drained oil unless you have a special need to do it? Like now for M8 owners.

Any clutch incompatible lube in the trans will be a problem for some if it migrates to the primary.

This rings true to me. I have the same A&S clutch in my '15 Limited Low. Have I had any problems? How would I know.... as said it never leaks so I never check it. My bike is out getting dyno tuned along with other things, I'll take a look when I get it back.  :idunno:
I had the same thought as you when Bike31 posted his reply. I am adding a trans fluid check to both pre and post dyno check lists.

rbabos

Quote from: RXBOB on June 01, 2017, 12:13:23 AM
maybe 2019 models,,,,,,,,,,2018 models probably already made ready to ship out
Depends. They could very well been aware of it in the 17s and modified the 18s already. Production deadlines to market and all that stuff. A few more months we will know .
Ron

hattitude


Does anyone know if the MoCo is even aware of this issue.....?

As mentioned, I don't think dealers have been giving the MoCo any feedback on this... who measures the fluid before dumping it when doing a change...?

Unless it's led to a failure of some type, they may be totally unaware of this.... This thread is the first I've heard of this issue...

RXBOB

Quote from: hattitude on June 01, 2017, 06:21:17 PM

Does anyone know if the MoCo is even aware of this issue.....?

As mentioned, I don't think dealers have been giving the MoCo any feedback on this... who measures the fluid before dumping it when doing a change...?

Unless it's led to a failure of some type, they may be totally unaware of this.... This thread is the first I've heard of this issue...

I know my Dealer has informed the MoCo and he's waiting on a reply

FSG

QuoteDoes anyone know if the MoCo is even aware of this issue.....?

oh yes they know about it    :chop: