HarleyTechTalk

long ago and far away many old bikes were stolen and stamped.
i think the acid showed the disturbance in the molucules of the metal.  even guys that XXXXed all the old numbers away the XXXX's showed.   
and anything brought up would be stolen in their minds.
(rightfully so)
but yeah, massive welding should do it.

your tin tag is the way to go.
dont think anybody gonaa mess with a old guy on old bike.
especially if he not poor and a known theif.

still you a photo whore.
document everything.  maybe bring in a friendly leo to sign a few.
cant be too careful with that jewel.  you have had too much history with it to lose it.

or just ride the pink vespa.  we wont laugh, honest!  (LOLOLOLO)

The Vespas are black and silver... But I still won't be riding the Hello Kitty scooter. I'll leave that for Debbie. She looks a lot better on it than I do.

-Craig

i know.  i just threw in the pink deal to yank your chain.
would not laugh anyway if debbie on hers with the tutu and the hello kitty AR-15, with that combo you could be riding anything and i would not laugh.

i like a little bike for messsing around neighborhood also.
have a buell for such.  was really thinking of setting up the rickman 500 triumph for same.
but its nice as is and to license it would be a major deal.
no papers.  so bonded title and all it entails.
plus no lighting so would have to set up some sort of lucas (prince of darkness) system.

other option for me would be to build a mustang scooter.
shop had one when i was in early teens.  was a blast to scoot around the shop areas/errands when not wanting to kickover the 55kh
course it would have to have skulls and such...lol.

but back (sorta) on topic.  old bikes and numbers can be a problem.
most of it is your attitude and the cop involved.
a friend who is sgt in Az highway patrol also races AHRMA.
(arizona historical racing motorcycle association)
he stopped by a couple years ago for me to work on his old CZ.
looking over the dead pile of bikes on outside he said it would be a numbers nightmare.  but who steals 60's euro race bikes?
(not even the restored ones)
most of our restored ones have some sort of bill of sale and thats it.
hell in the 60's thats all you got from a dealer anyway.
and after 40 years or so of riding and racing through many hands most engine #'s dont match frame.
not to mention the swaps we do in house.
it is evident we not a vintage euro stolden bike ring.  so it just happens..and we not building race bikes for a living..
i old and retired with a leo past and my partner is old retired leo...

back to pan.  i would leave it smooth.  just weld and clean up.
as long as frame #is good...
if restamp all sorta stuff might surface.
when i licensed my buell here, bought in calif, the inspector just checked frame number.  i showed him where the eng number was.
was not interested, said engines get blown up and changed all the time.  they in car mode.  a good engine is worth way more than a bare frame.
that is my experence with it..

Ok... I got some photos back from Perry after getting the case cleaned up.  He heated the case up to 200F and the extent of the crack becomes more evident.  You can see how the oil migrated out of the crack as the case was heated leaving a trail of oil.

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The crack ran all the way around the front of the case and stopped at the point where the right and left cases meet.
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This part of the crack is on the front of the case behind the generator.
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Here the crack crosses under the hole where the front case bolt holds the right and left cases together.
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Here you can see the crack pass right through the strengthening rib to the left of of the motor number boss.
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You can see the trail of oil right along the base of the number boss.  The crack terminates maybe 1/2" to the right of the number boss.
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WOW. Well at least it was found before the motor grenaded. I went by and saw my heads at the machine shop today, they did a great job on the dual plugging, and cut my rear pulley down for me to change over to belt on the Shovel. Since the wreck, that is about as much as I could do though. I just don't have the strength right now to attempt installing the tranny or swapping out my front end.
EASY

Has Perry issued a verdict? Does he think they will hold up after welding?, or start to crack in another place?

EASY,

It's funny how we get to know our motors. The last day I rode it to work, a Monday morning after I had ridden it hard on Sunday, when I left the house I felt and odd "knock" in the motor.  Immediately thought something was wrong but figured it was a loose motor mount from the thrashing the day before.  The knock went away after the motor warmed up.  Noticed the same thing on the ride home from work.  When I pulled the generator there was oil coming from the crack behind the generator.  No oil up along the side of the motor so I didn't realize the crack extended nearly as far as it does.  But it's a good lesson.  When something doesn't feel right, listen to your gut and investigate further.  I don't think this was far from being a real disaster and totally wrecking the motor.

Deye76,

Perry is confident the case is repairable and can be fixed with high confidence.

-Craig

"Perry is confident the case is repairable and can be fixed with high confidence."

Good news

Those are awesome pics.  One can only imagine the carnage had it gone to busting open.  Will this require everything being reset as if you were using an unmatched left case?  Seems with all the welding they'll be movement of all major surfaces and races.

Can't wait to see the finished results.

ricochet

ricochet,

Yes!  After all the welding everything will need to be straightened out, flattened, line bored, etc.  It's not worth doing it twice to save a little time/money the first time.

-Craig

Wow Craig, that is a serious fix you've got going on.

Good Luck!
- Mark

Mark, I try to do everything with excellence... including cracking my case.   

LMAO well you couldn't have done that much better for sure. By the sound of it, you couldn't have sent it to someone better to fix it either!
EASY

Wow. Not an easy thing to look at first thing in the morning...kinda like my ex wife. lol. Glad to hear that the cases can be saved ! 

EASY, Perry is a guy I really trust.  His prices aren't bargain basement but neither is his work.  He's the guy who built this motor for me back in 2003.  I figure since I put 100K miles on it, he did something right.  I'll let him do it again.

I'm sure there are a good number of shops that could make this repair.  I kind of believe in customer loyalty.  When a shop does good by me, I try to return my business there whenever possible.

Quote from: twincamzz on September 26, 2012, 04:56:42 AM
Wow. Not an easy thing to look at first thing in the morning...kinda like my ex wife. lol. ...

-Craig

Craig, didn't your build thread last year start because you heard a rattle you thought was a cracked frame?  I did not go back & re-read it yet, I remember you just completed it & started riding again.  Best of luck on the weld job.
drinner

Yes back in July 2011 I tore into the bike because of a oscillation that felt like the wheels not staying in line. The knock in the motor this time was completely different. I knew this was coming from the motor or perhaps a loose motor mount.

EDIT:  Oh ... and yeah... I had only ridden it about 7 months before this thing happened with the motor case.  Would have been more convenient if it had happened at the same time.  That's just the way it goes I guess.


-Craig

Ok... now the photos are going to get really ugly for a while.  Lots of grinding in this first set of photos.  The repair of the timing plug hole is started.  The crack has been tack welded in 4 places to keep the case from warping when he starts welding on the inside.

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WOW! Well, here goes nothing..... Good luck Craig!
EASY

Beautiful welds!  I'm sure it will work.  You may have to machine the parting line on both cases.  An align bore of the cases would be wise.

I gotta ask Craig, How do you get all the oil out of those old porous cases for welding?  I was going to have a guy weld up my busted factory inner but he wasn't as good as he thought he was. I ended up with a Cal Products inner that I am pretty happy with.

- Mark

The welds you see so far are just tack welds to keep the case from warping while the crack is welded on the inside.   The weld work around the timing plug will be machined and re-textured to look as close to original as possible.  It's a long teadeous process.

Mark, the cases were hot tanked for 10 days after disassembly.  Even with that it looks like there might be a bit of oil coming out of that crack.  Grinding out the crack should help eliminate that problem.

Ajayrk, the seam surface between the cases will definitely have to be machined flat again.  Line boring is a given too.

There is definitely no turning back at this point!  LOL

-Craig

Craig, I've been welding for quite a few years. I've seen good welders and bad, this man, who is doing your cases, shows a hell of alot of talent! I see in the pics, that he welded up the timing hole then cut it down and textured it. Simply fantastic display of metalwork there. Once it's all said and done, and you're back out eatin bugs in style again, we'd appreciate his name, number and a round about price for this miracle he is providing. Even with the equipment I have, and have access to, I still don't have that talent, to make the repair disappear!
EASY

More photos.  This is hard to watch!  But I have confidence that the final product will look good.

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Looking REALLY good Craig. I'm not seeing much sand/oil/trash in those welds at all. He did a fantastic job of cleaning it all up and welding. You got nothing to sweat at all!
EASY