Why is Harley going back to cable?
No matter what the answer is, you can be sure it will be $$ driven. to begin with, I expect the hydraulic system is more costly to produce. The cost of failures during warranty period included. The M* transition raised other issues that seem to be spreading like an infection from the hydraulic system.
I was thinking $$$ also, I've not had any problems with my hydraulic clutch.
There was a recall due to some failures. That must have cost them a bit and that may have figured into it.
Quote from: kd on February 24, 2021, 10:51:55 AM
There was a recall due to some failures. That must have cost them a bit and that may have figured into it.
Bingo $$$$
The hydraulic clutch caused the oil transfer problem. Could have been still an issue...
Karl
Quote from: Karl H. on February 24, 2021, 09:54:17 PM
The hydraulic clutch caused the oil transfer problem. Could have been still an issue...
Karl
So they say. Why didn't the hydraulic clutch cause transfer issues on my 09, 12, 13 of 15? They all had hydraulic clutches. Still have the 13. I also never had transfer issues on my 17, 18 or my current 19.
I also never had hydraulic clutch issues.
The slave cylinder area on the transmission case is a different design between the twin cam and the M8.
LOL, Harley Davidson has to mess with things until they don't function. The hydraulic clutch that came on 2004 CVO's worked flawlessly. I had one installed on my 2004 RG when purchased new, when I sold the bike with nearly 100,000 miles on it, still worked perfectly. One fluid (DOT5) change only in that time frame. A good friend has a 2004 CVO bagger, 125,000 miles on it, no problems, and hasn't changed the fluid. So far my 2014 CVO RK, and 2015 RG work fine, but changing the fluid every 2 seasons is kind of a PIA.
Ditto what John said. It's almost embarrassing that for some reason I forgot to service the clutch fluid on my 04 SE Deuce. 143K never serviced and not the slightest issue. Very consistent and released just before halfway. I like a clutch that releases early/clean, makes smooth shifts easier IMO. About half of the miles was with a SE clutch spring. IMO a bike with a clutch that starts to drag near the grip feels like junk...I know cone racers like it that way...my fun is running off a backroad not sub 25mph parking lot clutch burning obstacles.
Here's a link that gives some possible perspective on the change. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1JqJRQ-N34&feature=emb_logo
#1 reason $$, not to mention 3 recalls and 2 different vendors for the system, #2 customer complaints, we have heard them for year, people hate the Mesh point and bitched a lot. My 14 has been flawless and I personally am disappointed..
I had an '05 Ultra, a '10 Ultra and now a '16 Limited. I would hate to go back to a cable!
Quote from: PoorUB on February 25, 2021, 10:18:02 AM
I had an '05 Ultra, a '10 Ultra and now a '16 Limited. I would hate to go back to a cable!
My first hydro clutch was on an '06 CVO Ultra then on four more CVOs until I got my 2018 Tri-Glide which of course also has a hydro clutch. Would not want to go back to cable. Getting used to the longer engagement point on a hydro takes a little time but the engagement is always consistend and does not vary like cables which can stretch and get out of adjustment.
Changed my clutch cable at 103,000 miles. Nothing wrong with it just a prudent thing to do. Had my exhaust off for a different reason, no time like the present! Glad they went back to the cable, and you can change it without tearing half the motorcycle apart.
04 SE Deuce, thanks for the link. He explained it pretty well. Everyone has their preferences. Myself, I have 3 bikes, the RG has hyd. and it's factory clutch, the CVO RK hyd. and the SDR clutch, FXR is cable operated Barnett (twin cam plates & spring) extra plate kevlar with a heavier spring in a 2004 basket. So 3 different clutches, 3 different friction zones, and I have no trouble adapting to each. Adapt is what humans are good at. If I could find the 2004 hyd. parts, the FXR would get changed in a heart beat. I never understood the complaints about high RPM shifting with a VPC, now I do, I had a hyd. in my 2004 RG with a VPC, lever was easy even at 6200 RPM.
My love for hydraulic clutch is it is consistent, smooth and I never have to adjust it. Just flush the fluid every couple years.
Cable clutch it would always take a couple attempts to get it adjusted the way I like.
Hydraulic clutch is my preference, after a AIM, Mueller or Rekluse slave cylinder is installed. Otherwise I like a Mueller power clutch arm and Barnett teflon cable.
Quote from: calif phil on February 27, 2021, 10:18:34 AM
Hydraulic clutch is my preference, after a AIM, Mueller or Rekluse slave cylinder is installed. Otherwise I like a Mueller power clutch arm and Barnett teflon cable.
X2 :agree:
:hug:
My '15 Limited Low has the hydro clutch, assist & slip, and the narrow primary that came later across the board. Never a problem with it. I remember when I bought it the difference in clutch pull compared to the (cable/diaphragm spring) regular Limited was night & day.
I hated the clutch on my 17 RK until you guys talked about the AIM. I installed it and never looked back. Great upgrade for the lousy Harley slave.
Bigs
Quote from: conmag on February 24, 2021, 06:52:21 AM
Why is Harley going back to cable?
Because they work better & are more dependable lol.
~John
Quote from: jmorton10 on March 07, 2021, 03:09:02 PM
Quote from: conmag on February 24, 2021, 06:52:21 AM
Why is Harley going back to cable?
Because they work better & are more dependable lol.
~John
Yeah... hardly.
More like it's cheaper than fixing the migration problem. I think they have figured it out and if they fix one, they'll have to go back to 2017 and do em all.