I have ext. warranty and don't want to screw that up by using a different tuner. I was told by a HD Service Dept. that they would have to put on a dyno to set it up.
What mods have you done & have you used all HD parts?
Street Cannons, SE 55 cc manifold, K&N filter.
SE Street Tuner does not affect warranty, as it keeps the bike within the guidelines in the tested area designated by EPA/CARB , as long as it's used IAW the directions.
Thanks
For customers that have or want to keep warranty in effect SE street tuner is the only way to get around it . PV tuner will not get you there any more than a TTS as there is a box that needs to be checked that the SE street tuner has been installed . I deal directly with several Sm from the dealers and they have been snagged on the myth that a PV tuner will get you around that , ( MOCO stepping up their game as well there is one more new trick that they have implemented ) ( flash it back with the Street tuner before needed service work ) So one SE street tuner plus what ever you want to add will get you around that deal. But with Moco reps showing up for a large% of warranty claims now finding NON SE parts in the cam chest is a instant power train void going into effect . Its not the dealers this is just the MOCO flexing its rules .
Not trying to turn this into a Pv vs what ever battle. Install high flow and mufflers and have an issue no street tuner HA HA another void its getting down right crazy
I don't want to run this off the rails, but I never quite understood the concept of removing the PV or other tune and install the SE tune to keep the warranty. I mean, I understand, but it is not always practical. It means you must travel with it, hope it works when you need it, and do a quick download on the side of the road while waiting for the tow truck to show up. I've heard this discussion with aftermarket pipes and such as well, just change them before you take it in. First, a pain in the ass, and second, if you're out of state traveling, good luck with that.
Either keep the warranty with proper accepted parts, or just own the fact that the warranty is void for a better running bike.
Just my two cents worth, now back to the issue at hand.
I get it for sure but its the MOCO they are putting in road blocks so to speak to stop tampering this is nothing new its been this way for 10 years on the auto side . I think guys need to really step back get off their high horse and understand what the warranty is and why it is in place.
you have an engine that was built to last X miles at X power . this was the entire deal to start with . So said guy bolts a super charger on it or NOS BB kit cams etc etc and damages the engine . Now he takes it off and back to the dealer for his FREE engine repair what ever . then upset that the dealer is not willing or MOCO is not willing to do the repair that the end customer believes should be free
Not taking a side here but really ?? I see more whining in the HD world than any where else . Guys want to vastly increase power on an engine that was never tested to those level and then whine about a manufacture telling them to go pound sand and voiding the power train warranty . The complete ridiculous idea that it should be covered just blows my mind that people think that way .
I cannot take my disel truck that makes 700 tq throw a tuner on it that now makes 1150 tq and whine that it burnt the trans up .. Broad brush strokes on that as most of the new trans/ engine programming are now so complex that no one has gotten completely around the coding yet.
I'll say it. It's dishonest as well.
Some expect the MOCO or dealers to eat the cost of fixing their mistakes, then at the same time cry about the high prices they charge. It's like retail stores building in a percentage to cover the cost of shoplifting. On my 2019 I bought HD parts and the SE tuner as a way to keep the warranty in place while getting a better-than-stock running bike. The bike runs good with just the downloaded stage 1 tune. Could it run better with a PV and some aftermarket parts? Absolutely. Down the road I will go that route, but for now with the sumping and transfer issues still plaguing the M8 I'll stick with the warranty.
I have never understood how a customer could modify the engine, be it just exhaust, AC or cams and get warranty. Harley built this monster themselves. Warranty should be voided with any modification.
Quote from: PoorUB on February 22, 2019, 11:04:58 AM
I have never understood how a customer could modify the engine, be it just exhaust, AC or cams and get warranty. Harley built this monster themselves. Warranty should be voided with any modification.
I agree, the fact that the Moco allows modifications within their parameters is at least something that is good for the consumer. Better than nothing.
I have a friend with a '17, waited until warranty was done, and just put cams, pipes, ac, and PV tuner on it. He had the parts on hand a month beforehand, and the day warranty went off, parts came off. With any luck he'll be able to ride sometime before May, with the way winter is going around here.
Quote from: PoorUB on February 22, 2019, 11:04:58 AM
I have never understood how a customer could modify the engine, be it just exhaust, AC or cams and get warranty. Harley built this monster themselves. Warranty should be voided with any modification.
:agree:
My dealer uses and recommends the PV they also told me I can put whatever I like in my bike, as long as it is not the causal part on a failure, they will honor my warranty
That is a MOCO decision, unless the dealer is providing the warranty $.
How does the MOCO know, I'm a Ford Tech and we do warranty work all the time we shouldn't be doing. Ford doesn't know any better?
Harley is watching pretty close on warranty after the EPA went after them a couple years ago. A minor warranty issue will probably be ignored but anything major gets the evil from the MoCo rep, more so with M8 issues.
Quote from: Malazan on February 22, 2019, 12:42:30 PM
How does the MOCO know, I'm a Ford Tech and we do warranty work all the time we shouldn't be doing. Ford doesn't know any better?
someone will let the cat out of the bag one day and the dealer you work for will be taken to the cleaners
It's not just this dealer it's every dealer I've ever worked for over 20 years. This industry is crazy :idunno:
In the Past the MOCO was not as diligent as they are now in checking for after market Tunes....add ons ...parts...
Around 2 years ago we had a Extended warranty rejected and the Bike black listed when they found a SE Tuner on it ( found by them requesting a screen shot of the Calibration ID etc ) It said RACE Tuned ..Poof no more warranty ....then this past year we had the MOCO them selfs requesting screen shots of Cal Id etc....Street tuned OK...Race Tuned or non HD Cal...Poof no more warranty .... Also if the Bike has a Stage 3...4 etc and does not say Street Tuned .....and show a HD CalID....Poof again ....warranty GONE ..........this effects guys buying extended warranty's as well....the Extended Guys are looking for the same correct Factory approved INFO.........times are changing guys....a Dealer thats recommending and using a PV or any non HD Tuner is asking for big issues ......what INDY Shops do is another story...but HD Dealers are being watched VERY Close as to what they sell or recommend now....
Man that's worse and more intense than any car dealer. Diesel guys are always getting "Potty mouth" warrantied and they all have tuners, aftermarket turbos, exhaust etc.
Nobody even bats an eye on the auto side, who would have guessed a motorcycle would garner such attention
Something to do with the millions HD had to pay to the EPA...
Quote from: rigidthumper on February 22, 2019, 07:18:08 PM
Something to do with the millions HD had to pay to the EPA...
Bingo Brother
What about pipes? Say you had Vance and Hines slip on's but used the Street Tuner, would you still have warranty?
Quote from: sandrooney on February 23, 2019, 06:03:50 AM
What about pipes? Say you had Vance and Hines slip on's but used the Street Tuner, would you still have warranty?
In some cases ( Sumping continuously ) The MOCO wanted Pics of the whole Bike in particular what pipes its running ...only reason I can see why is to find a reason to Ditch the warranty :nix:
My dealer say's the MoCo could care less what pipes you are running,as long as you have the Street Tuner.
I find that hard to believe . I am sure they would do their best to get it covered but what if I was out of town?
I am trying real hard to leave mine stock. It is getting harder by the day. It's a Softail so not too worried about sumping as I haven't seen or heard of any credible reports of Softails sumping. I guess it is still in the back of my mind or I would not be so concerned about warranty.
I wouldnt want to send them a Pic of a bike with a set of Duncan Hines Long Shots thats having engine issues .... :SM:
As long as the pipes are 50 state EPA certified HD will accept them, correct? At least that is what I was lead to believe.
The whole warranty thing is ridiculous. Harley uses it as scare tactics to try to keep work at their dealerships and why wouldn't they. I feel that when you start to modify your bike then you need to take on some responsibility for issues that could pop up because of this. Should you install an aftermarket pipe, cams etc and the Radio gives you trouble then I would expect the moco to step up but do this and the drivetrain doesn't hold up then it's on you.
Let's face it, these bikes are not ideal in stock configuration. I remember a conversation with a long time customer last year that bought a new CVO and had nothing but issues, hot running etc. and wanted to bring it to my shop for upgrades/tune but was concerned about warranty. I asked him if he wanted to ride a bike that runs like it should or a warrantied POS. He replied "call me when you are ready for it"
Does the SE Smart Tuner have to be installed be a Harley dealer to keep your warranty.
Quote from: hd06 on February 23, 2019, 01:46:44 PM
Does the SE Smart Tuner have to be installed be a Harley dealer to keep your warranty.
No any one can install it
Thanks
Thanks :up:
Quote from: hd06 on February 23, 2019, 08:43:16 PM
Thanks
Thanks :up:
Has 18mm wb, so dealer has to mod the stock 12mm header ports ?
I was told that putting a SE Smart Tuner Pro would be a waste of money with a stage 1 kit. If it's a gain to go to a wide band on a stage 1, I will do it.
most of my Wi and Illinois dealers are using aftermarket slip-ons on stock head pipes(M8) and have not had any issues with the warranty boys yet, they are using the HD Street tuner of course, for these
Quote from: hd06 on February 24, 2019, 08:51:10 AM
I was told that putting a SE Smart Tuner Pro would be a waste of money with a stage 1 kit. If it's a gain to go to a wide band on a stage 1, I will do it.
Dunno if I agree with that, stage 1 kits really benefit from custom mapping the ignition maps as well as the fuelling. With a 107 it's the difference between 88/108 and 92/115 (on shitty Oz fuel)
Quote from: PoorUB on February 22, 2019, 01:15:20 PM
Harley is watching pretty close on warranty after the EPA went after them a couple years ago. A minor warranty issue will probably be ignored but anything major gets the evil from the MoCo rep, more so with M8 issues.
don't forget the 15 million dollar fine, that is a bit of a game changer.
Tomcat, they were more than happy to pay that $15M, look at all the tuners and SE Exhaust it has sold for them.....and all the warranty they denied.
Let's face it, $15M to mother Harley is nothing, they spend that every quarter advertising to Millenials and they don't have any product they can afford
Just my take on the whole $15M fine deal
Race tuners always had warranty implications, but we hid them from the MOCO, and they never looked real hard. For what it's worth, this is what I have seen in the last 2 years. #1, I have not seen a warranty "voided" (on a non totaled bike) but I have seen may "flagged" that means if there is a warranty event we have to call for authorization, and depending on the reason for the flagging of the warranty, they (MOCO) may deny the claim. #2 ESP is much different than warranty, they have always been much more strict and it is very common for an inspector to come to the store and look at a claim bike before they authorize the claim. TTS tuned bikes ALL got flagged. I have not seen any effect on warranty for slip-ons as long as the stock head pipes is used.
Dealers can state that they will stand behind modifications, but that is good only at that dealer, and you are on your own when on a trip. BTW, I believe that "warranty" can only be offered by the manufacturer, and that is why the "add on warranty" is called ESP.
I can tell you that in the last 13 years things have changed a lot, and expect the changes to continue!
Tomcat, exactly, "Flagged" is not denied, but in the event of a possible claim, it will be scrutinized a lot more than a non "flagged" vin
I've seen the zone rep flag bikes for aftermarket heated grips
Ok, off the rails, back to our regular scheduled program
Quote from: tomcat64 on February 25, 2019, 06:49:14 AM
TTS tuned bikes ALL got flagged.
Do you know if the calibration id's had been changed to match the HD ones?
Quote from: 92flhtcu on February 25, 2019, 06:33:37 AM
Tomcat, they were more than happy to pay that $15M, look at all the tuners and SE Exhaust it has sold for them.....and all the warranty they denied.
Let's face it, $15M to mother Harley is nothing, they spend that every quarter advertising to Millenials and they don't have any product they can afford
Just my take on the whole $15M fine deal
I don't know that they were "more than happy" to pay a $15M fine. That's still a lot of money and bad press. If you don't think it's a lot of money and make $50k a year, try just pulling $1500 out of your pocket. It's a lot of money. Especially if you have to explain it to your wife, or shareholders.
Then why is it that people that make less then 50K a year have no problem pulling $1500.00 out of they pocket and people making twice that can't. Sorry about getting of track.
Quote from: lonewolf on February 25, 2019, 07:43:27 AM
Quote from: tomcat64 on February 25, 2019, 06:49:14 AM
TTS tuned bikes ALL got flagged.
Do you know if the calibration id's had been changed to match the HD ones?
I got nuthin,, but I can ask.. our Dyno guy is out this week,,,
One thing I need to test is taking a street tuner, loading a map which will show up as "street tuned "on the digital tech. From what I have seen is pulling that map with the PV modifying it and reloading it will still show as "street tuned" What I don't know is if using that PV cal in the future on a different bike will show "street tuned" or not on the digital tech
Quote from: BVHOG on February 25, 2019, 12:35:04 PM
One thing I need to test is taking a street tuner, loading a map which will show up as "street tuned "on the digital tech. From what I have seen is pulling that map with the PV modifying it and reloading it will still show as "street tuned" What I don't know is if using that PV cal in the future on a different bike will show "street tuned" or not on the digital tech
Good question, I think it is switched in the ecm itself and not the map, (from what i have experienced anyway). In the past with the race tuner I have put a bike back to stock configuration for resale and flashed a oem calibration with the digital tech and it still shows that it is still race tuned. Thats the opposite way of what you were wondering.
From what Ive seen too the "Street Tuned" notice goes in when the Street tuner is married to the ECM....in a perfect world there would be an Option in the PV Software to add Street tuned to the Cal ID ...... One Bike we had Flagged by the Moco had claims OKed on anything NON engine related ....and as others say..the ESP Warranty's are far tougher now ...Slip Ons alone are no issue..... Changed Head pipes and Full systems are another matter ....
What about slip on's on a softail where the cats are in the mufflers. Thanks
I put SE mufflers on 18 Delux and dealer said no problem with Warranty-anything else will require street tuner.
I believe the SE slip on's do require the street tuner to keep warranty. I would check it out if I were you.
I was wanting to install aftermarket slip on's with no cats. I would install the street tuner as well.
Quote from: sandrooney on February 28, 2019, 05:10:58 AM
I believe the SE slip on's do require the street tuner to keep warranty. I would check it out if I were you.
I was wanting to install aftermarket slip on's with no cats. I would install the street tuner as well.
That alone is enough to flag the power train warranty, since the bike no longer meets EPA/DOT/CARB requirements. Fed laws cover non tampering, and the settlement (https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/pages/attachments/2017/07/20/env_enforcement-2673483-v1-lodged_revised_cd.pdf) forces HD to void warranty and report those to the feds.
Thanks. That was my understanding.