Greetings,
I have a 103 2013 Switchback with an Andrews 57H cam and a V&H ProPipe w/ quiet baffle.
I run this with an FP3 tuner, and while I'm sure I'm not getting every ounce of performance, prior to putting in the quiet baffle (newest version) I was happy with the performance given. However, slogging on the highway for hours at 80mph+, the ProPipe felt like hammers on my scull and needed to quiet it. Put in the quiet baffle and the DB's are now acceptable, however there was a notable power loss, especially noticed at low rpm.
I want some zing back and am somewhere between a different cam, or a different exhaust that is also relatively quiet. I've toyed with something like a Woods 222/CR 570-2, etc to beef up the low end, but not sure whether to do the exhaust instead. Having said that, are there exhaust options out there that optimize performance but are relatively quiet? By keeping the quiet baffle in the Pro Pipe, not sure how much of a power gain I would be getting by a doing cam swap.
Thoughts on how to optimize the cam/exhaust combo with exhaust that is not loud?
Edited to add, I can do either the cam or exhaust, but the cost of both is prohibitive for me.
Andrews 48 cams will give you more low end, still pull pretty good as well. Check the dyno section for sheets for stock bikes, Andrews 48 and exhaust changes.
Following, buddy has a 13 switchback, slim pickings for exhaust and it seems to affect the ride more than other models.
I like the F/M eseries. It's quieter than my propipe and feels better in the lower R's.
I have run the 57s in a 103". They were no slouch, even at low RPM. Perhaps your tune is off?
Also with the 57s I would bump the compression to 10.3-10.5 to 1. You could pull the heads, get them ported and bump the compression, then the 57s will make you smile.
I have run the 48s in a stock 103" and was not impressed, but then I favor higher RPM running. They were better than stock, but I wanted more. I have the CR570-2 in my 2016 Limited and they do well.
Quote from: thirdjld on November 07, 2019, 01:13:23 PM
Following, buddy has a 13 switchback, slim pickings for exhaust and it seems to affect the ride more than other models.
Agree. Exhaust selection is limited by the floorboards and the bags. Fuel Moto's E series won't fit the Dyna. Although I think I remember reading the E Series slip on will work with the Pro Pipe?
Thanks for everyone's comments, but I'm not into adding compression and headwork and what not. Just looking for a way to get back the power that was robbed by using the quiet baffle in the Pro Pipe. I was quite happy with the performance of the bike prior to putting in the quiet baffle. However, the sound/noise level of the standard baffle of the Pro Pipe has become not acceptable.
Is there an exhaust that fits the Switchback, that is quieter than the Pro Pipe (standard baffle), but still gives good performance?
Or
Is there a different cam I can use in conjunction with a Pro Pipe with quiet baffle, that will get back power levels of an Andrews 57H with a Pro Pipe with standard baffle?
How was the tune modified for the new baffle?
SuperTrapp SuperMeg for FLD, part number 828-71692
The Pro-pipe in stock format is not a loud pipe (like most 2-1).
I would go back to original baffle and get some fibreglass matting and start with a thin layer around entire baffle.
Quote from: rauchman on November 07, 2019, 11:41:58 AM
I run this with an FP3 tuner,
I would start here to "optimize" what you already have...
Get a real tuner and have it tuned. Bob
:agree: It's hard to say that to someone that has spent the money on an FP3 tuner after drinking the koolaid :koolaid1: It does need to be said though. The stories on here from some that had that tuner and upgraded to a quality unit are proof.
Quote from: kd on November 08, 2019, 05:25:55 PM
:agree: It's hard to say that to someone that has spent the money on an FP3 tuner after drinking the koolaid :koolaid1: It does need to be said though. The stories on here from some that had that tuner and upgraded to a quality unit are proof.
Well I never have a problem with stating the truth. Lots of people drink Kool-Aid in the Harley world. This forum has never had a problem of being honest. Use to be way more guys calling BS on the Kool-Aid . :nix: Hope the OP gets its sorted out without dropping a pile on more band-aids. Bob
Quote from: rauchman on November 08, 2019, 05:48:22 AM
Quote from: thirdjld on November 07, 2019, 01:13:23 PM
Following, buddy has a 13 switchback, slim pickings for exhaust and it seems to affect the ride more than other models.
Agree. Exhaust selection is limited by the floorboards and the bags. Fuel Moto's E series won't fit the Dyna. Although I think I remember reading the E Series slip on will work with the Pro Pipe?
Thanks for everyone's comments, but I'm not into adding compression and headwork and what not. Just looking for a way to get back the power that was robbed by using the quiet baffle in the Pro Pipe. I was quite happy with the performance of the bike prior to putting in the quiet baffle. However, the sound/noise level of the standard baffle of the Pro Pipe has become not acceptable.
Is there an exhaust that fits the Switchback, that is quieter than the Pro Pipe (standard baffle), but still gives good performance?
Or
Is there a different cam I can use in conjunction with a Pro Pipe with quiet baffle, that will get back power levels of an Andrews 57H with a Pro Pipe with standard baffle?
Lower your gearing and get a good tuner and tune. It'll be worth it.
I understand a tune will make a bike perform to it's max but I was not aware it change the sound of the exhaust so much, or does lower gearing change exhaust sound?
https://www.fuelmotousa.com/i-22164513-fuel-moto-e-series-2-5-universal-megaphone-muffler.html
.
Quote from: thirdjld on November 09, 2019, 06:19:56 AM
I understand a tune will make a bike perform to it's max but I was not aware it change the sound of the exhaust so much, or does lower gearing change exhaust sound?
Wasn't aware of that either
Quote from: thirdjld on November 09, 2019, 06:19:56 AM
I understand a tune will make a bike perform to it's max but I was not aware it change the sound of the exhaust so much, or does lower gearing change exhaust sound?
Only mention about exhaust sound change was with baffle change. Bike will need a tune with the quieter baffles. Bob
head gasket swap with +4 gear, TTS/PV/Direct Link and a proper dyno tune. you have been putting off the inevitable for 2 years. FP3 is a fair stage 1 tuner at best.
Quote from: TREV T on November 09, 2019, 04:59:53 PM
head gasket swap with +4 gear, TTS/PV/Direct Link and a proper dyno tune. you have been putting off the inevitable for 2 years. FP3 is a fair stage 1 tuner at best.
:agree:
tts o pv and a dyno tuner.
Appreciate everyone's info. Hadn't considered the tuner. This might be the route to take. The FP3 has settings to compensate for the quiet baffle, but I was never totally happy with the tuner when I had added the cams. Had a heavy exhaust smell. Is it correct to assume that even with the quiet baffle, a better tuner could compensate for this and bring back some power?
Also....
Yup, I realize the ProPipe is one of the less loud 2-1's, but for me, the stock Pro Pipe is still too loud
Thanks for the suggestion of the Super Trap. That specific model # though, I haven't been able to find. Having said that, if I go new tuner, I won't need the exhaust...I think.
Also thanks for the suggestion of the Fuel Moto slip on muffler
I've considered futzing with the gearing, but don't want MPG loss when touring. Aside from fixing the issue with power loss from the quiet baffle, I think I'm done with "stuff" for this bike. Aside from getting aux lights and fixing the power issue, I'm not planning on dropping more $ into this bike.
Yes, I would definitely start with a new tuner and a proper tune.
https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,96348.0.html
A bike set up originally with an FP3, and then tuned with the Power Vision.
Quote from: rauchman on November 11, 2019, 06:59:12 AM
Appreciate everyone's info. Hadn't considered the tuner. This might be the route to take. The FP3 has settings to compensate for the quiet baffle, but I was never totally happy with the tuner when I had added the cams. Had a heavy exhaust smell. Is it correct to assume that even with the quiet baffle, a better tuner could compensate for this and bring back some power?
Also....
Yup, I realize the ProPipe is one of the less loud 2-1's, but for me, the stock Pro Pipe is still too loud
Thanks for the suggestion of the Super Trap. That specific model # though, I haven't been able to find. Having said that, if I go new tuner, I won't need the exhaust...I think.
Also thanks for the suggestion of the Fuel Moto slip on muffler
I've considered futzing with the gearing, but don't want MPG loss when touring. Aside from fixing the issue with power loss from the quiet baffle, I think I'm done with "stuff" for this bike. Aside from getting aux lights and fixing the power issue, I'm not planning on dropping more $ into this bike.
Just the opposite in my experience (and others). Running at 3,000 RPM at cruise instead of 2,500 to 2,700 will put you into the peak torque zone and WILL give you better mileage as well as instant roll on power.
Just another example of potential with tuners.
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Also proof of what a hop up along with a crappy tune gets you. Do all the engine work and make it worse than stock!
I'm running a stock 2014 Limited 103HO with the Pro Pipe and FP3. After a good break in (of the pipe) and a bunch of auto-tuning runs I found I just could not stand all that noise. Very loud.
So I put in the 'quiet baffle" and at first it was quieter, now I'm not so sure. Perhaps it is but it is still loud. When I put it in I also selected the quiet baffle ProPipe calibration in the FP3 and rode it for a while before I started the auto tune. I tuned it a lot of times, running around the Hill Country, the three sisters, and Interstate.
I have not noticed any loss of power, in fact I feel it pulls harder below 4000 rpm than it did with the standard baffle. By the way, did you leave the plastic wrap on the baffle packing while you installed it? Supposed to leave it on, it will melt and allow the packing to fill the space.
As usual, a proper dyno tune will always perform better, but that's another $500 to $1000 depending on your specific situation (tuner, or license, and dyno time).