HarleyTechTalk

Swingarm frame has shocks. The picture posted by JSD with the hot chic standing behind it is a hardtail frame.
Take a look under the bags, that will tell the story.

It's a wishbone rigid frame.

Hardtail, rigid wish one, tomato, tomato

 

Quote from: Hossamania on January 29, 2023, 09:25:28 AMHardtail, rigid wish one, tomato, tomato

 

    You may be misunderstanding my post Hoss.  Even without any other pics (which would end the rear suspension  part of the conversation) I am sayin Stafford's motorcycle is in fact a wishbone front leg early rigid frame.  Go to the video of Stafford starting the bike. Pause the video at the right time and you will see the tool kit mounted under the bags. The seat pan area doesn't appear to have a swingarm support leg.   Later on in the video a slice of the front of the frame is in view and paused you can see the wishbone curve at the top of the front frame tubes.  All swingarm frames are straight leg.

For interest sake, the rigid frame rear axle castings (not in view) are similar to the early panhead round swingarm axle castings and that lends itself to the easy use of a hydraulic rear drum brake.  The square swingarm appeared in the alternator shovelhead years.  The rear master cylinder is a bolt on item with the right parts.

BTW, it's a panhead and they go Potato Potato 

I was confused, like normal. Confessed under my avatar.

Quote from: Hossamania on January 29, 2023, 11:53:11 AMI was confused, like normal. Confessed under my avatar.

After church I hope 

Quote from: kd on January 29, 2023, 11:54:39 AM

Quote from: Hossamania on January 29, 2023, 11:53:11 AMI was confused, like normal. Confessed under my avatar.

After church I hope 

Church! Good one!

Quote from: Hossamania on January 29, 2023, 11:53:11 AMI was confused, like normal. Confessed under my avatar.

I should have said confessed in my signature in my avatar.

Stafford, in your first photo we could see it wasn't a swingarm frame. But when you first mentioned a 65 frame I figured the guy had access to a 65 frame as I indicated above. That's why I said it may explain the master cylinder because all 65 Pans had a master cylinder, and a hydraulic drum rear brake.

In another thread you mentioned that laying on the floor under where the bike was sitting was a 3/8" bolt probably 3 inches long that vibrated out and you had a feeling it might be for the transmission. I wonder if it was the adjusting screw which threads into the back of the trans case? And there should be a support strap for it that is bolted to the trans mounting plate. 
Eric

Nossir it's not like that, It doesn't have that nut on it. and it's fine thread nearly all the whole length. I have a feeling somebody somewhere down the line maybe used it for a punch and it got away from them and ended up laying somewhere getting oil leaked on it for who knows how long. When  I can get it on  my table lift it'll be easier to scope some of this stuff out a lot better. I just don't know what got in to me saying i didin't even know what a swingarm frame meant. I've been having bikes since i was 17 or 18. that would be 50 years. And who would know how accurate the ol boys memory was when he was writing his memoirs. Just in case anybody here could have met him his name was Wesley Lane from Greenback Tennessee. He seems to be well thought of at Smokey Mountain HD in Maryville Tennessee. I need to make it up there and maybe get to ask about him a little. If anybody there still remembers him. brake light isn't working and the bulb is good I don't know where to find the switch on the thing and it's pretty tough for me to get down in the floor to look for it. guess I'll have to wait to get it on the lift. Appreciate the heck out of all yall joining in on this. You've been a lot of help and encouragement to me. And it means a lot. BTW what oil should  I use in it. The oil that's in it is leaking out  and it seems to be pretty good oil, kinda green in color and pretty heavy. Sooner  or later i'll have to add some to it.
Thanks, Stafford

Quote from: Hossamania on January 29, 2023, 08:29:52 AMSwingarm frame has shocks. The picture posted by JSD with the hot chic standing behind it is a hardtail frame.
Take a look under the bags, that will tell the story.

Thats Mum Hoss 90 in June

Nice bike Phil!

Yeah it's a rigid frame, beautiful bike you have. Unless your going to work on the motor and trans internals, most tools on hand will suffice. For instance a steering wheel puller will get the clutch hub off the keyed shaft easily when needed. I live near Greenback, Wesley is well known. He had a 52' Panhead, car pulled out in front of him, broke both arms, bike pretty well totaled. His friend Ron Devine(RIP) and Wesley built a couple of Pans, so yours could be Wesley's or the one Ron had that they built before they went to Sturgis years ago. My friends Dad and Wesley worked on Harley's together many years ago. Rebuilt a lot 45 cu in engines.

Dye 76 I'm pretty sure this was Wesleys Bike and he got rid of it in 89 I think. He wrote some info on the bottom of the battery cover. The fellow I got  it from is a trader, he'll trade on anything. I think he mostly got it to flip. He said he got it out of a shed where it had been sitting for years. he had to clean the carb and dump the gas and put  some fresh gas in it, The battery cover said that he built the engine and maybe Devine painted the bike. He said he thought it was the  prettiest bike he ever had in his little book. Ive googled him and apparentlyl he still lives  in greenback.  He was born in 1929 so he's getting up there. I'd like to ride it to his house if he still lives at home and show it to him. I'm sure he thought he'd never see it again. thanks Dye, appreciat it.
Stafford.

stafford, if you live in the area I'm at the Shed (SMHD) for lunch on Fridays.

Dye I live down 411 south.  According to google it's 97.3 miles from here. Although I've been there several times. But it's been a while since i've been there. What time do you usually have your lunch? I need to get up there and buy you lunch. Is Wesley still active at all? I've thought if he was I'd like to get more comfortable on the panhead and take it to his house. If he's like most of us I think He'd like that. Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner, the thread had kinda slowed down and I thought it had played out. Thanks Dye.
Stafford

I'm usually there between noon and 1:00. I'll find out if Wes get's around. If not maybe my friend can arrange for him and me to pick him up and bring him to Smokey Mountain HD.

Sounds good to  me.
Stafford

No one has answered the tools question yet so I'll give it a shot. You can go along way with a 3/8-7/16-1/2-9/16 and a 5/8 open and box end wrench and the same sockets. I like 12 point sockets but can be bolt head strippers if the are worn. Craftsman tools have served me well through the years, great warrantee and descent quality. Some are better and some are worse. The front engine shaft nut requires a 1 3/8 - 1 1/2 wrench depending on whats there. If you have a belt drive it may be different than a stock drive.

Inside the inner primary holds the front engine sprocket and the transmission/clutch parts. To take the clutch plates out, you should fab a simple tool to hold the clutch plate pack together and to make life much easier. The tool to do this has many versions, I simply get a large washer just a bit larger than the hole in the center of the spring plate and a smaller washer that is just a bit larger than the inside diameter of the larger washer and a 3/8" or a bit larger inside to fit over the center clutch adjust nut. I tack weld the two washers together, makes it much easier.
In order to remove the clutch hub you need an 1 1/8" deep socket which you would be better off making because it is deeper than anything that you can by. I'm a welder so some of this stuff is easy for me and to make this tool I went to a discount tool store and bought a cheap 1 1/8" deep socket along with a piece of pipe. Cut the socket somewhat near in halve and weld the socket ends to make a deeper, deep socket. This tool can be made in a few ways. Normally sockets this large fall into the 3/4" drive world and most people don't have this stuff, as well as most people not having a welding machine either, but hear you can weld the socket end to the pipe or find a larger nut to fit the largest wrench you halve and weld it to the pipe. IMPORTANT, this socket is made to go backwards cause the nut holding the clutch hub on is LEFTHANDED. This brings us to the nut that holds the front drive sprocket which is 1 7/8" and also is LEFTHANDED and requires a similar tool as the clutch but there are a few options such as slug wrenches and a few others, I just made one similar to the clutch.

There are places that are good sources for tools like pawn shops, swap meets and yard sales. I made my living twisting wrenches and using tools you would probably would never see or never mentioned but earn a spot in the top drawer of the tool box because you found that it would do a job that it was never intended for. Harley made oodles of these one purpose tools. Part of the journey, Enjoy.

Quote from: nmainehunter on February 16, 2023, 09:59:02 AMNo one has answered the tools question yet so I'll give it a shot. You can go along way with a 3/8-7/16-1/2-9/16 and a 5/8 open and box end wrench and the same sockets. I like 12 point sockets but can be bolt head strippers if the are worn. Craftsman tools have served me well through the years, great warrantee and descent quality. Some are better and some are worse. The front engine shaft nut requires a 1 3/8 - 1 1/2 wrench depending on whats there. If you have a belt drive it may be different than a stock drive.

Inside the inner primary holds the front engine sprocket and the transmission/clutch parts. To take the clutch plates out, you should fab a simple tool to hold the clutch plate pack together and to make life much easier. The tool to do this has many versions, I simply get a large washer just a bit larger than the hole in the center of the spring plate and a smaller washer that is just a bit larger than the inside diameter of the larger washer and a 3/8" or a bit larger inside to fit over the center clutch adjust nut. I tack weld the two washers together, makes it much easier.
In order to remove the clutch hub you need an 1 1/8" deep socket which you would be better off making because it is deeper than anything that you can by. I'm a welder so some of this stuff is easy for me and to make this tool I went to a discount tool store and bought a cheap 1 1/8" deep socket along with a piece of pipe. Cut the socket somewhat near in halve and weld the socket ends to make a deeper, deep socket. This tool can be made in a few ways. Normally sockets this large fall into the 3/4" drive world and most people don't have this stuff, as well as most people not having a welding machine either, but hear you can weld the socket end to the pipe or find a larger nut to fit the largest wrench you halve and weld it to the pipe. IMPORTANT, this socket is made to go backwards cause the nut holding the clutch hub on is LEFTHANDED. This brings us to the nut that holds the front drive sprocket which is 1 7/8" and also is LEFTHANDED and requires a similar tool as the clutch but there are a few options such as slug wrenches and a few others, I just made one similar to the clutch.

There are places that are good sources for tools like pawn shops, swap meets and yard sales. I made my living twisting wrenches and using tools you would probably would never see or never mentioned but earn a spot in the top drawer of the tool box because you found that it would do a job that it was never intended for. Harley made oodles of these one purpose tools. Part of the journey, Enjoy.

You still need something to anchor the clutch hub when removing or torqueing the nut on the main shaft or the hub will just rotate.  An old clutch fiber with an 18" to 24" 5/8"  bar with one end welded to where the fiber surface was.  Remove the clutch pac, slide the disc onto the studs and the tail of the bar can lay on the floor, lift table or on some blocking on the ground to prevent the hub from turning under the torque of the socket when loosening or tightening.

I bolted the flat stock on mine because I didn't have access to a welder at the time.

 You cannot view this attachment.

There is a lot more for sure. Some people feel that an air impact should be avoided, especially on a taper but it's a  personal thing for some.

Short of going through the local tool outlet, the service manual covers most every special tool needed and a good set of quality wrenches, sockets, screw drivers, pliers, with a multimeter and some electrical tools will go along way. However, there are never enough tools. Enjoy

that works

Quote from: nmainehunter on February 16, 2023, 03:10:43 PMThere is a lot more for sure. Some people feel that an air impact should be avoided, especially on a taper but it's a  personal thing for some.

Short of going through the local tool outlet, the service manual covers most every special tool needed and a good set of quality wrenches, sockets, screw drivers, pliers, with a multimeter and some electrical tools will go along way. However, there are never enough tools. Enjoy

The important thing to remember about tapers (transmission or flywheel) is bone dry clean and no lube.  Even finger prints.  Any lube will risk drawing it down too far and stretching the hole.

twincamzz, that'll get it done.

If it's a true taper shaft bottom end you will need a 1/4 x 24 tap and die . if you get deep into restoration , you will find all the motor and tranny places that require this tool to clean out and retread holes and screws .