Well, pretty soon I'll be rebuilding my shovel motor. I'm looking for advice here. I noticed when the bike was running that it had no power in the mid to upper RPM range. I would like to change that. I have no idea what is currently in the motor, but it seems to me that the PO may have tried to build a torque monster out of an 80" :emoGroan:
I'm pretty sure it has some ridiculous high compression pistons, because even with a high torque starter and a good AGM battery, it will not kick over if the battery drains even a little bit. I've also read on here that with the large CC in the hemi heads of these bikes, they are prone to run hotter and have less upper RPM power. I just want a good reliable street worthy engine and hopefully more power on top if I can get it. I also neede to send off the flywheels and have them balanced.
So what are the piston and cam recommendations for an 80" shovel motor in a hot climate? Where is a good place to send my flywheels? I won't be getting to this right away, I'm a few months off, but I need to learn this motor better.
Quote from: yarddogg77 on February 12, 2020, 09:01:25 AM
I need to learn this motor better.
Gonna need to start by Disassembly!!!!
Too many variables to "Guess" and Only someone who really knows can diagnose by simply Listening...maybe learn a bit of something by riding... but... Not that much!!!!
Do a Compression and leak-down to decide if it is even required...
Bust them wrenches out.....
As mentioned, see if you can get a cold cranking pressure #, I've never been impressed by Shovel era "hi-torque" starters, but hopefully it has equally as good cables. If there is high comp pistons with say a Andrews #1 cam, that can kind of explain cranking issues, but it should be a stump puller though the mid range at least. Also hopefully the ignition is modern, meaning single fire & a heathy coil, old points & coil isn't going to cut it. As for the crank, if it didn't feel like excessive vibration, and you check run out & BDC rod play, you may not need to go there. But if your compelled to do the crank, Dark horse would be a easy choice, but lots of us folks here do them still.
I have to tear it apart anyway because the flywheels are out of balance. In fact, when I crank it over it seems to hit a wall, feels like bindage. I'm concerned the flywheel is so far out, that maybe the main shaft is binding in the cam side, or the pistons may be twisting around in there. It's bad. Anyway. I'm just wondering what compression to shoot for, 8:1, 9:1? I know I will favor a higher lift cam as opposed to a long duration. Just doing some pre brainstorming. Also, is there a good 2-1 performance pipe set that will work with hard bags on an FLH?
Wow, I just called Darkhorse to get a price quote, just for a balancing they want $495, and worst case scenario to rebuild the rods and all that they want up to $870. Not thanks. I could probably buy a new rebuilt flywheel set for less than that. there must be another way.
Quote from: yarddogg77 on February 12, 2020, 10:30:02 AM
Wow, I just called Darkhorse to get a price quote, just for a balancing they want $495, and worst case scenario to rebuild the rods and all that they want up to $870. Not thanks. I could probably buy a new rebuilt flywheel set for less than that. there must be another way.
Since we have no clue where yer located... hard to help with "Who"
Pull the plugs and crank er over... if the wheels are that far out of true... you will Know [balance has nothing to do with it]
Now stick finger in spark plug hole ... should blow 'er out with authority.... Next
Quote from: yarddogg77 on February 12, 2020, 10:30:02 AM
Wow, I just called Darkhorse to get a price quote, just for a balancing they want $495, and worst case scenario to rebuild the rods and all that they want up to $870. Not thanks. I could probably buy a new rebuilt flywheel set for less than that. there must be another way.
IMO you called the wrong place. Darkhorse is THEY place for the pressed together cranks in TC and newer engines. Just about every bike shop with a grey beard can true and balance those bolt together flywheels. I would expect the cost of true and balance to be around $250 -ish plus any hardware that is needed.
Cam and piston options have been discussed at length in the shovel section. I suggest you look around in there for a bit. Odds are the information is already there.
Compression has nothing to do with the horrible vibration this motor has. Next....
Quote from: yarddogg77 on February 12, 2020, 05:26:32 PM
Compression has nothing to do with the horrible vibration this motor has. Next....
Unless only one cylinder has any!!!!!!
Quote from: Racepres on February 12, 2020, 05:55:11 PM
Quote from: yarddogg77 on February 12, 2020, 05:26:32 PM
Compression has nothing to do with the horrible vibration this motor has. Next....
Unless only one cylinder has any!!!!!!
:up:
Quote from: Racepres on February 12, 2020, 05:55:11 PM
Quote from: yarddogg77 on February 12, 2020, 05:26:32 PM
Compression has nothing to do with the horrible vibration this motor has. Next....
Unless only one cylinder has any!!!!!!
True, I'm just messing with you, it was firing on both and I have checked compression, they were strong. I think the flywheels are so far out of true it may even be binding things a bit when it cranks over. I will double check because it's free, but I'm sure it's not that. :agree:
I did put on a new Ultima Single Fire ignition system. I definitely had it on top dead center and that's how I learned I had a Harley flywheel set due to the timing marks. The ignition as easy, you just install it wire it up, and with the bike on TDC just rotate the ignition unit until the little light shuts off, then screw it down. I know I got that right. You know I think I will check the compression again, and maybe the intake boots too. Could be something simple huh?
What else might cause this? A flat cam lobe, or maybe a bad lifter? I didn't hear any lifter noise.
I went off the road on a turn as I was goin way way way to fast and hit a mound of dirt. Man I hit it just right and got some good air. I came down like a cat lookin good till I had to jump over the second mound of dirt which I didn't hit square and hit it on the side so again I got some real good air but had to get off the bike as it went down on it's side. Me and the bike just had some scrapes n bruises but that engine never ran right after that crash and had a vibration that would shake the fillins out of yer teeth. It was so bad I wondered how it was stayin together so it may be it was wrecked at some point causing the engine to come to an abrupt stop resulting in the flywheels twerking.
That's something I've been pondering. The night I got the bike I do not recall that engine shaking so bad. I was running it up at 80- 85 on the way home and I remember it felt pretty good. The PO ran the ignition wire right behind the rear pipe along with the starter cable and a few other things. It had a Hi4 Crane ignition. On the way home that ignition wire burned up so at times it would violently cut out jarring the bike. I've been wondering if that might have knocked the flywheels out of true. It was running like "Potty mouth" by the time I got home because of the ignition wire being smoked. It didn't start after that, so that's when I tore it down. At first I planned to fix the wiring, then I found more Miskey Mouse work, so I decided to just tear it down to the frame. The motor has shook ever since. Terrible vibration. Pisses me off.
There is a guy on ebay that sells rebuilt shovel cranks.Out of Florida.
We build/balance those cranks, using S&S Master Crankshaft Tooling.
Smooth as "buttah" once completed.
Quote from: yarddogg77 on February 12, 2020, 06:25:02 PM
That's something I've been pondering. The night I got the bike I do not recall that engine shaking so bad. I was running it up at 80- 85 on the way home and I remember it felt pretty good. The PO ran the ignition wire right behind the rear pipe along with the starter cable and a few other things. It had a Hi4 Crane ignition. On the way home that ignition wire burned up so at times it would violently cut out jarring the bike. I've been wondering if that might have knocked the flywheels out of true. It was running like "Potty mouth" by the time I got home because of the ignition wire being smoked. It didn't start after that, so that's when I tore it down. At first I planned to fix the wiring, then I found more Miskey Mouse work, so I decided to just tear it down to the frame. The motor has shook ever since. Terrible vibration. Pisses me off.
Yard I gotta ask are you sure it's not a Timing Issue just because of what you said about running great until wire burned up. I find it real hard to think that the flywheels are rubbing when starting.
Quote from: yarddogg77 on February 12, 2020, 06:25:02 PM
That's something I've been pondering. The night I got the bike I do not recall that engine shaking so bad. I was running it up at 80- 85 on the way home and I remember it felt pretty good. The PO ran the ignition wire right behind the rear pipe along with the starter cable and a few other things. It had a Hi4 Crane ignition. On the way home that ignition wire burned up so at times it would violently cut out jarring the bike. I've been wondering if that might have knocked the flywheels out of true. It was running like "Potty mouth" by the time I got home because of the ignition wire being smoked. It didn't start after that, so that's when I tore it down. At first I planned to fix the wiring, then I found more Miskey Mouse work, so I decided to just tear it down to the frame. The motor has shook ever since. Terrible vibration. Pisses me off.
"Torn down to the frame" introduces plenty of Ammunition for Vibration... alignment, motor mounts ad infinitum!!!
That and I have had many different Ignition and mechanical failures at extreme RPM's and Never yet had an affect on flywheel True... This includes a piston "bumping" the head at about 6 grand!!!!!
Quote from: 72fl on February 13, 2020, 04:34:09 AM
Yard I gotta ask are you sure it's not a Timing Issue just because of what you said about running great until wire burned up. I find it real hard to think that the flywheels are rubbing when starting.
Especially with this statement...
Quote from: yarddogg77 on February 12, 2020, 06:09:41 PM
The ignition as easy, you just install it wire it up, and with the bike on TDC just rotate the ignition unit until the little light shuts off, then screw it down.
TDC of the Compression Stroke
The bike is put together just fine, engine tranny alignment good, everything is tight. It is not a loose bolt vibration. It is a hard vibration related directly the engine RPM which could only be cause by the weight of the flywheels. Even if it was running on 1 cylinder I don't believe it would feel the way it does. Judging by the things I found when I started working on the bike, the PO probably took a short cut or screwed something up with the flywheels.
I will definitely check the timing again, but it was on TDC compression, it will start and run and it does fire on both cylinders, sounds right when idling and rev. It never spits or sputters or coughs, or cuts out with the new ignition. It's gotta be the flywheel. I have to finish work on a truck, then I will check the runout, cam, and intake seals.
Quote from: yarddogg77 on February 12, 2020, 06:09:41 PM
I did put on a new Ultima Single Fire ignition system. I definitely had it on top dead center and that's how I learned I had a Harley flywheel set due to the timing marks. #1 The ignition as easy, you just install it wire it up, and with the bike on TDC just rotate the ignition unit until the little light shuts off, then screw it down. I know I got that right. #2 You know I think I will check the compression again #3, and maybe the intake boots too #4. Could be something simple huh?
What else might cause this? A flat cam lobe, or maybe a bad lifter? I didn't hear any lifter noise. #5
#1 Timing marks don't ID a crank anyone can put whatever timing marks they want on the flywheels.
Some cranks can be ID'd by a part # that can be read through the timing plug.
You can tell if you have steel or cast iron flywheels through the hole.
#2 That timing procedure just allows you to get the motor started.
You should not assume a finished timing setting and ride the bike as such. (although many do)
The only way to set the timing is with a light. PERIOD
#3 A compression test will tell you how the cylinders compare to each other.
And can help with other issues, too high, too low.
#4 Use a can of spray cleaner to dribble some spray on the manifold joints, and watch for a change in idle speed.
Quick and easy test for seal leaks.
#5 Use a heat gun to check the head temps and exhaust temps to verify cylinder balance.
Also -
You mentioned that you thought the crank was taco'd.
If it was I would expect a significant amount of debris in the oil.
Cut open the oil filter and see if it is shedding metal.
No point in disassembling a good motor......
If you do find metal look in the cam chest first for problems.
Finale -
You can't say balance and Harley Davidson in the same sentence without some level of sarcasm.
Guys say they have a smooth motor, I ask at what RPM? :koolaid:
Even a little bitty low compression 74" incher with the big heavy flywheels will shake.
Vibes are just part of the package.
If you want something smooth you need a I-6 motor with 7 main bearings.
All twins shake, a boxer(BMW) probably the least.
And a Triumph or a XS650 probably the worst, with a Harley somewhere in the middle.
You know something. I did not use a timing light. Mine was stolen a while back. I did research the timing marks to learn which crank I had and found it is a Harley crank in an S&S case, I know I had TDC. I think I will go buy a timing light and check the other stuff too. I can't be building an engine right now anyway, had shoulder surgery almost 4 months ago. The build would be buddy beer intensive. A few more days on the truck and I will give that bike some attention.
The shake I'm referring to is very intense at cruising speeds and above. Idle feels like a normal shake, if not smoother.
QuoteThe shake I'm referring to is very intense at cruising speeds and above. Idle feels like a normal shake, if not smoothe
As I recall my 76 factory mill was like that when I sat it on a upside down milk crate 16 years ago and replaced it with an S&S 93" long block. It's still on that milk crate.
You know, I've been sitting here watching you tube videos from machinists about building various Harley motors and it seems that I would almost need a machine shop to do most of the work. Maybe I'll just buy running engines from now on. I was feeling a bit discouraged second guessing myself about my twin cam 95" build, but I think it will be alright.There is one step I missed, but it shouldn't be an issue.
Quote from: yarddogg77 on February 13, 2020, 07:22:25 PM
You know, I've been sitting here watching you tube videos from machinists about building various Harley motors and it seems that I would almost need a machine shop to do most of the work. Maybe I'll just buy running engines from now on. I was feeling a bit discouraged second guessing myself about my twin cam 95" build, but I think it will be alright.There is one step I missed, but it shouldn't be an issue.
Any old Indy worth a "Potty mouth", can check and some of 'em even correct, flywheel true!!!
Yank 'er apart and have a Good Indy drop it between centers!!!!
As alluded to previously... Balance is a Variable, and Not absolute... some shops differ from others in the "Factor"
Quote from: yarddogg77 on February 14, 2020, 09:55:01 AM
Quote from: Hillside Motorcycle on February 13, 2020, 04:24:31 AM
We build/balance those cranks, using S&S Master Crankshaft Tooling.
Smooth as "buttah" once completed.
How much for a total rebuild and balance if needed? For the flywheels, not the whole motor.
You are equipped to remove the flywheels from the case... but Not check between centers for true????
Quote from: Racepres on February 14, 2020, 10:12:05 AM
Quote from: yarddogg77 on February 14, 2020, 09:55:01 AM
Quote from: Hillside Motorcycle on February 13, 2020, 04:24:31 AM
We build/balance those cranks, using S&S Master Crankshaft Tooling.
Smooth as "buttah" once completed.
How much for a total rebuild and balance if needed? For the flywheels, not the whole motor.
You are equipped to remove the flywheels from the case... but Not check between centers for true????
Are you smoking? Anyone cane remove flywheels from the case with basic hand tools. Maybe I don't feel like building a truing stand, and buying a bunch of machining tools for balancing and truing and replacing rod bushings once every 10 years. You rebuild flywheels right?
Careful there. Once you split the case, the flywheel is held in the left case by the Timken bearings. You can't just turn the case over and pound the flywheels out with a hammer. There are specialty tools used or a large shop press.
RE: balance. If you think there is a problem with the flywheel assembly, start by doing a runout measurement. If both shafts are true to .002", then likely they are not scissored. Unless something really bad happened, I would not suspect this to be the case.
Burnout summed it up pretty good. V-twins vibrate, period. HD's mitigation that was to rubber mount the motor/trans. Rigid mounts will have chassis vibration, no way around it. Typical mitigation is to minimize the vibration (sweet spot) at highway cruise RPM, which tends to be near 3000 rpm. Above and below, vibes will be worse. My FLH is fairly smooth at 65mph. At 85, it's a paint shaker.
-JW
Forgot about that bearing.
Quote from: JW113 on February 14, 2020, 10:54:16 AM
Careful there. Once you split the case, the flywheel is held in the left case by the Timken bearings. You can't just turn the case over and pound the flywheels out with a hammer. There are specialty tools used or a large shop press.
RE: balance. If you think there is a problem with the flywheel assembly, start by doing a runout measurement. If both shafts are true to .002", then likely they are not scissored. Unless something really bad happened, I would not suspect this to be the case.
Burnout summed it up pretty good. V-twins vibrate, period. HD's mitigation that was to rubber mount the motor/trans. Rigid mounts will have chassis vibration, no way around it. Typical mitigation is to minimize the vibration (sweet spot) at highway cruise RPM, which tends to be near 3000 rpm. Above and below, vibes will be worse. My FLH is fairly smooth at 65mph. At 85, it's a paint shaker.
-JW
what model is your flh. stock ?.a good cruizer ?
Quote from: yarddogg77 on February 14, 2020, 10:21:31 AM
Are you smoking? Anyone cane remove flywheels from the case with basic hand tools. Maybe I don't feel like building a truing stand, and buying a bunch of machining tools for balancing and truing and replacing rod bushings once every 10 years. You rebuild flywheels right?
Not yet... Too Early...and yes... I have done my share of Flywheels... from scratch ... Stock, S&S, and My Favorite...T&O..Balancing is tough for me... because I am Not meticulous enough.. But, I know that once Balanced...long as the changes to the Pistons rings wrist pin are Not Great... it stays Balanced..
True???? easily Checked... as stated check runout in the cases... but that is Not the whole story.. Once the Wheels are out of Both cases... even someone with a Lathe [with a large enough "throw"] can easily check true... Fixing is where it gets Intense!!!!
I still feel that you are chasing a Prophecy... but... if the Wheels were not torqued properly, the True could Shift!!!
again if that is suspected.... Simply Check them!!!! No Need to R&R if within spec to start with!!!!!
I do Not have an 80 pounder no more... but our local Indy does...and it only takes minutes to check!!!!!
Quote from: Racepres on February 14, 2020, 12:27:40 PM
Quote from: yarddogg77 on February 14, 2020, 10:21:31 AM
Are you smoking? Anyone cane remove flywheels from the case with basic hand tools. Maybe I don't feel like building a truing stand, and buying a bunch of machining tools for balancing and truing and replacing rod bushings once every 10 years. You rebuild flywheels right?
Not yet... Too Early...and yes... I have done my share of Flywheels... from scratch ... Stock, S&S, and My Favorite...T&O..Balancing is tough for me... because I am Not meticulous enough.. But, I know that once Balanced...long as the changes to the Pistons rings wrist pin are Not Great... it stays Balanced..
True???? easily Checked... as stated check runout in the cases... but that is Not the whole story.. Once the Wheels are out of Both cases... even someone with a Lathe [with a large enough "throw"] can easily check true... Fixing is where it gets Intense!!!!
I still feel that you are chasing a Prophecy... but... if the Wheels were not torqued properly, the True could Shift!!!
again if that is suspected.... Simply Check them!!!! No Need to R&R if within spec to start with!!!!!
I do Not have an 80 pounder no more... but our local Indy does...and it only takes minutes to check!!!!!
.... Orrrr, the tapers weren't super clean and bone dry with no oil residue (even off your fingers). You shouldn't just loosen them off and start whacking them either. It doesn't take much for a little oily bit or cleaning solution to migrate into the hole and contaminate the tapered seat for the pins. If that happens, you can expect problems again later.
Take the primary chain off ,plugs out,pushrods out and turn it over with a wrench and feel if it binds anywhere.
Thanks guys. :up: I'll get out there and whip it soon enough. Chasing some final electrical gremlins in my truck, then I will check it again. When I installed the primary belt drive I did a check on the shaft with a gauge and didn't see anything unusual. I'm probably going to gauge it from the cam side this time. I'm pretty sure that thing scissored on me that first night. If you had heard the pops and backfires and violent jerks that bike under went I think you would agree. It's good to know the journal should be bone dry during assembly, that is useful to know. I might just smoke a little too now.
I should add that any oil film can allow the pin tapers to pull in too deep also. That can be a real problem with con rod clearance too. You want full traction.
Guys,
Figured I better just weigh in here and I will start out by saying, yes, we (Darkhorse) are not the least expensive in the marketplace. That being said, I know what my guys put into shovels, pans, knuckles, evo's, xl's - any 5 piece flywheel. In all honesty, it takes us more time to balance, blueprint, assemble and true 5 piece crankshafts than a brand new M8 crankshaft or TwinCam. We have more $ into fixturing and presses for M8 and TC, product development, etc... but strictly labor wise it takes longer to do a shovel properly. Starts by proper torque and truing pinionshaft and sprocketshaft to individual flywheel 1/2, blueprinting all bearing surfaces, bearings and conn rods. We do not balance like any other (to my knowledge) and our level of accuracy is something we take great pride in. We used the S&S balancing kit for many years in the 80s and I know for a fact our current method is more accurate. It is also more accurate than using a Sunnen DB750 or similar type automotive balancer. Then of course accuracy in final assembly.
That all being said, we have a dealer network that we make sure they have the ability to make a living wage and we will not undercut them or compete with them by lowering our retail price to meet someone's expectations. Is our dealer price lower? Well sure, Scott @ Hillside knows that, I want him to be able to keep the lights on and make a living doing what he loves to do when he uses us for a TC or M8, I also want that same thing for 5 piece crankshafts.
He (and some others that have been around for a while) would be a great resource as I know he has done them for a long, long time and I am sure he can produce a great reman. crankshaft for you. Knowing what I know though, I do not think I would take just guy who has been around for a while as I have seen some of those and some leave a little to be desired!
Not being difficult here, I just believe there are different levels of accuracy in any crankshaft and we only strive for the best here at Darkhorse, it will cost more than some, but then again, some will cost you in the long run.
John Dahmer, Owner & GM
Darkhorse Crankworks - Celebrating 40 years in 2020
I'm glad you think to pay your people. I work in the trades and hate capitalism. I have always heard Darkhorse is the best in precision. I'm just not sure what this Shovel is worth to me. I have another bike I want to finish and this Shovel has cut into my time deeply. I think it might be worth more to me boxed up and listed on E-Bay. It has a lot of high dollar parts on it, and I really am not into the Baggers and FLH style bikes anyway, I like a bit of extra rake. I might have a TC flywheel set for you at Darkhorse depending on how well the local machinist did.
Darkhorse are you saying using the S&S balancing system is not worth doing an have you do it.
Quote from: yarddogg77 on February 18, 2020, 06:51:30 AM
I'm glad you think to pay your people. I work in the trades and hate capitalism. I have always heard Darkhorse is the best in precision. I'm just not sure what this Shovel is worth to me. I have another bike I want to finish and this Shovel has cut into my time deeply. I think it might be worth more to me boxed up and listed on E-Bay. It has a lot of high dollar parts on it, and I really am not into the Baggers and FLH style bikes anyway, I like a bit of extra rake. I might have a TC flywheel set for you at Darkhorse depending on how well the local machinist did.
Well Dogg let me tell ya. If you think the Shovel is going to get real involved I believe you should just pack it up and piece it out or just sell as is. I picked up a 68 basket case back in June to restore. It was a frame up total build with top quality made in USA parts like Rivera, S&S and Velva Touch.
The cost of doing these bikes has become way past stupid. I thought I scored a hell of a deal on the bike at 3500 bucks but after, and only after I started to go down the build stage I came to realize this basket case was no deal at all. It NEEDED EVERYTHING and was the worst cobbled bike I had ever seen and it took me over 11 grand to make the bike right which is stupid ridiculous and I did all the work myself except the bottom end and some machine work. In the end it took me 9 months of my time and over 11K but now that it's finished I know what I have and she turned out just the way I wanted it to. By the time I found out how much prices had gone way up it was to late as I was already past the point of no return and had I known just how bad the bike had been cobbled and how much it would cost to do the build I would not have done it and just parted it out. At least I'm lucky to have a genny Shovel in the end but you should really think about investing so much time and money in a cone motor Shovel.
Now if it's something you just gotta have go fer it. For me, the high cost and lack of ability to source good parts has made this the last frame up build I'll do. Man I never thought I'd say those words but here I am sayin it. Good luck in your decision, just take the time and make it the right for YOU.
That's exactly the way I'm thinking. I've already tore it down to the frame once, it looks good. It has a lot of good parts, but in the end, it's just not what I really want to ride. I can appreciate the FLH's, but I like my chopper project. As far as dollars, the only thing I spent money on was the primary belt drive kit. I was able to sell the drum rear wheel and swing arm, pus an expensive era incorrect front wheel off of it and buy the wheels and brake parts I have now. Switched it to a rear disk because I will not have a drummy, I already had some shovel era fork lowers to return the front end back to it's era. So I returned the front end to shovel with dual disks, and modernized the rear half. Now I can change the rear sprocket size which it needed with the final output of the 5 speed. I'm gonna have to think about it hard. I do like the bike, but my chopper must be finished first. I don't need two projects.
From what I'm reading & interpreting, I'd be on the side of drop kicking the project too. No offence, but you really don't seem to be ready for this. Old "Potty mouth" takes a lot of time & LOTS of Money, and in todays market, $5k can buy you a relative cream puff of a newer bike. We didn't even start to talk about loose case races, over machined heads, boogered breather hole, ect.... So lick your wounds, figure out What you'll take for a price (and probably lose $), tell the buyer all you know, and move on to get a good nights sleep.
Lets see some picks of this money pit.
Quote from: turboprop on February 18, 2020, 10:04:46 AM
Lets see some picks of this money pit.
Me Too... lets get a peek!!
I am not saying S&S kit is bad, just not as accurate as the way we balance in house. FYI - to my knowledge and last time I was there, S&S does not balance in house using their static balance kit available on line. The level of accuracy in all the methods is impossible to get in 1 post and measurement is in inch/ounces or mm/grams and accuracy & given tolerances of those simple measurements will be debated by those in the balance world. It all comes down to how accurate do you need to be, how you measure accuracy and time it takes to get there.
I know we spend a lot of time to be as accurate as possible as this is not a hobby of ours, I eat, sleep and breath it every day and in our eyes we can only do it to the best of our abilities and knowledge
Cost & value to do it to a shovel can only be determined by the guy balancing it (cost) and the owner of the bike (value).
Thanks, John
Quote from: Darkhorse on February 18, 2020, 11:57:40 AM
I am not saying S&S kit is bad, just not as accurate as the way we balance in house. FYI - to my knowledge and last time I was there, S&S does not balance in house using their static balance kit available on line. The level of accuracy in all the methods is impossible to get in 1 post and measurement is in inch/ounces or mm/grams and accuracy & given tolerances of those simple measurements will be debated by those in the balance world. It all comes down to how accurate do you need to be, how you measure accuracy and time it takes to get there.
I know we spend a lot of time to be as accurate as possible as this is not a hobby of ours, I eat, sleep and breath it every day and in our eyes we can only do it to the best of our abilities and knowledge
Cost & value to do it to a shovel can only be determined by the guy balancing it (cost) and the owner of the bike (value).
Thanks, John
Now ya done it... everybody will now know why I have my Partner do all that ... I am Not nearly as meticulous
The Best, Costs..
You gotta wanna a shovel ! In my experience you can buy a running motorcycle (EVO) for less than a good shovel MOTOR build. I have about 6k in the motor(98") not counting trans work and paint and upgraded electrical system etc. It s a passion.
Quote from: JW113 on February 19, 2020, 08:29:15 AM
Yes, that is the bottom line. I probably have $11K in mine as well (nosecone motor). You guys think restoring a Shovelhead is expensive, try in Indian!
Ask yourself this: Generator Shovelhead FLH, what's the difference between that and 1965 Panhead? Other than the Shovel has better heads and more power? A '65 Pan would be a pretty sweet ride, no? So why not an early Shovel? It's purt near the same damn bike!
I tell ya Yarddog, if I had space in my garage, I'd buy it from ya right now. Of course if I did, the wife would have it out on the street with a FREE sign!
-JW
gotta keep the wife happy or you would be on the street too
HEY!
I spent enough just making it go forward..... :banghead:
Guys just keep any talk of pricing or selling to private messages or list you goods in swap. Not saying anyone is doing that here but the thread is walking up to edge.
Thanks
Mark