I've never had this happen to me before. This happened to my 08 FLHX today. I ran around today on the bike doing some errands and I maybe put 80 miles it today. The bike ran perfect and when I got home I turned the bike off and I went into the house for about 10 minutes. When I walked back out into the barn I could smell a strong odor of gas. I walked over to the bike and my air filter was dripping gas out of it profusely all down the side of my bike. :banghead:
I quickly unplugged the fuel line and I took my air cleaner off so I could roll the butterfly back on the t/body to take a look inside. When I did the whole inside of my t/body was filled with gas. I took some paper towels and soaked the gas up in the t/body...which was a lot. I used a long wrench to push the paper towels towards the valves to soak up all the gas I could. I then moved both injectors back and forth a few times and then I plugged the fuel line back on. The bike fired right up and seemed to run fine. So I cleaned my gas soaked K&N air filter in a bucket with Dawn dish soap and I let it dry. I've fired the bike back up a half dozen times and everything seems normal again. Is it possible an injector just stuck open? :nix:
Has anyone ever seen this kind of thing happen before?
Ray if it were lots of fuel, there almost had to be something allowing the pump to run, and also keep an injector or both open. There is some pressure and fuel after the bikes shut off, and if an injector were to stick open mechanically, you may see some fuel, but only as much as the fuel line could hold. But it sounds like a lot of fuel from what you describe.
Very odd. Just thinking if you had a piston stop toward the bottom of the intake stroke with the valve still open that could have been ugly! An injector open and the pump running with the main switch off?
You been to church lately?
Would get this back in the carb days of course. I lean the bike to the right as much as possible then open the throttle unless its on a table lift. Then I remove the plugs and cover the plug holes with some rags and turn the motor over to expel any gas in the heads , wouldn't think it would take to much excess to do some harm ..just saying. good luck!
Ray, just as a safety precaution, maybe pull the system fuse overnight, or until you maybe know what happened.
I really doubt the pump was running, sounds like a stuck injector to me. The fuel is still under pressure when you shut the bike off, injector is open,
I would have been really worried to fire the bike as you did. Worried that one hole was maybe close to hydrolocking like in the old carb days. Just to be less worried if it ever happened again I'd pull both plugs and spin the motor over before ever trying to start it up the first time.
I read about one exact thing last year and don't remember the outcome. If an injector sticks it's only a couple tea spoons and the pressure is off the system. At the time it was questioned if the fuel could drain from gravity past the pump if an injector offered a path for the drain.
Ron
I'm not sure what caused it to do what it did. :banghead: The bike was turned off and the fuel pump wasn't running.
I'm glad I walked back out to the barn when I did. I've started the bike a dozen times since it's happened and I have ridden it twice for a total of maybe 20 miles. All seems fine now. I checked for codes and there wasn't any. It honestly freaked me out when I seen how much gas was dripping out of my air cleaner. The t/body was full enough with gas that even with the bike on the kick stand it filled the t/body up enough so the gas level was high enough to run out my heavy breather intake tube enabling it to soak my air filter with gas. I did run 4 ounces of Sea Foam thru my last tank of gas. Maybe it loosened some dirt and it held the injector open after I shut it off. :nix: But I'm just guessing. I just thought it was weird...I've never seen an EFI bike do that before.
Brian...I'm going to pull the main fuse for the night right after I type this...just as a pre-caution.
Ron...there was more than any teaspoon of gas lost. I'd say I lost close to a quart of gas...if not more.
It would be pretty easy to pull the fuel line off the back of the throttle body and see if the fuel will gravity feed from the tank. Personally, I think it will.
Quote from: harleytuner on July 31, 2017, 05:12:27 PM
Quote from: PoorUB on July 31, 2017, 05:00:36 PM
. Personally, I think it will.
Yep, me to
It may very well, I was making an assumption the pump would act as a valve when off. Hopefully it actually does this, and a stuck injector then makes sense, and is an easy fix.
Quote from: rbabos on July 31, 2017, 04:43:00 PM
I read about one exact thing last year and don't remember the outcome. If an injector sticks it's only a couple tea spoons and the pressure is off the system. At the time it was questioned if the fuel could drain from gravity past the pump if an injector offered a path for the drain.
Ron
I remember a post on the same thing also
http://www.harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?topic=92100.msg1061427#msg1061427 (http://www.harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?topic=92100.msg1061427#msg1061427)
and
http://www.harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?topic=92220.msg1063020#msg1063020 (http://www.harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?topic=92220.msg1063020#msg1063020)
Could be more.
Ray, good catch there.
Did you fuel up before coming home? If you had cool fuel in the tank and a hot engine beneath it along with a sticky tank vent, there would be enough pressure to keep feeding the fuel line until it cooled down. The vent may be suspect too. As you said, an almost microscopic spec of dirt in the injector would give the fuel pressure a place to bleed thin gasoline off to. (your engine) By looking at the level of your intake tube you may even be able to determine which injector it was or would have to be to fill the manifold before it drained out to the filter. The horse is probably out of the barn on fuel in the sump now but the sniff test on the oil tank would be in order for me.
BTW, :idea: didn't you make up a handy little tool for back flushing injectors? If you are operating room clean when you do clean them and use a clean white towel to catch the internal discharge, you may see some crud you can analyse.
I seem to remember you have a home made injector cleaner Ray
I'd give them both a go :teeth:
possible you may have loosened something in the tank with the Seafoam
fingers crossed there is no more coming
OOps kd got it first
that's the plan kd & 98. :up:
I just ran it into town and I fueled it up while I was there. I'm going to go out to the barn and pull the dip stick and give it a good whiff. If I smell any gas...it will immediately go up on the lift and I'll drain the oil out of the pan and the sump...and I'll let it drain over night.
If it passes the whiff test I'll ride it tomorrow and see if it acts up again. If it does I'll hopefully have ran a 1/2 tank of gas out of it to make the tank a little lighter when I go to pull it. Yes...I'll put my little contraption to work and clean the injectors if it comes to that. I will try to catch what ever comes out of them...if anything does.
Ray, if you can access your vent line, pull it of and sniff the vent air you get pumping out the vent when the engine warms up. It should tell you if their is gas in the oil or crankcase. Your short ride may have already evaporated a lot of it. Take the renderings from your ol woodpecker bottle in a dish outside and see if it's volatile enough to burn by putting a match to it.
kd...I pulled the dip stick and walked it into the house and got the official nose to smell it "the wifeeepooh". :hyst:
I said what do you smell? She said gas :banghead: ...so it went up on the lift and I got the pan and sump draining and I will let it drain over night. I got 4 ounces out of the sump and running my finger thru the oil as it was draining out of the sump there might of been the slightest hint of gas...but not much for my nose to tell. :hyst:
I guess tomorrow I'll have to eat my Wheaties before pulling the tank off. I might as well go ahead and pull the injectors and give them a good cleaning while I got the bike up on the lift. It's a shame...I just did an oil change last week and went with all synthetic oil. You know that L/Moly stuff that BUBBIE liked.
Well this change will be even cleaner with that low mileage load coming out. :up: Rig up a Mexican passport and siphon that tank down and it'll get a lot lighter. Then you can flush the heel out, get a look at it for dirt and get any more crud out that remains. Bob's yur Uncle.
I pulled the plugs...and it was definitely the front injector that got stuck open. Fresh plugs are in.
I can pull the tank when it's full...I just hate to.
I'll get it pulled off in the morning and get those injectors out and give them the old eye ball...then a good cleaning with that rig I made.
This was a new one for me. I've never seen an EFI bike flood a t/body like it did after the bike was turned off.
Better Change the oil too Ray. Pull plugs & check cylinders. Gas as we all know washes oil of the walls. Not good on rings.
Stuck injectors is not common in the automotive world, but it does happen.
86
The fact is they will gravity feed, I have pulled lines off of the throttle body to remove the tank when guys come in with those POS fuel connection chrome covers with the tiny screws that are a bitch to get at. The line will continue to leak slowly.
Ray, I would suggest taking your injectors to a local FI company and have them cleaned and tested on their machine....Just a thought.
I agree I would send them to a shop .. As buying new ones would most likely alter the tune a fair amount .. I swapped out a bad one a 103 with a cam and had to re tune it .. I was over 10% off on the rear . So I would try to keep what you have just repair it ..
Only reason I know an injector can stick on occasion is , had a guy pull in and park next to me on his bagger. When he shut the engine off, it had a couple of hits of run on. Some call it dieseling. Other words not a clean shut down with a few after hits. Only way that can happen is the fuel was not shut off at the injector when the key was turned off and it was fed with some residual fuel on the last couple of compression strokes . Saw him a month later and he said it never did it again. Saw him again about a year later. Still ok, so it was a million to one episode. It would suck to park a bike and come back a few days later with an empty tank and full engine.
Ron
Quote from: GMR-PERFORMANCE on August 01, 2017, 05:46:17 AM
I agree I would send them to a shop .. As buying new ones would most likely alter the tune a fair amount .. I swapped out a bad one a 103 with a cam and had to re tune it .. I was over 10% off on the rear . So I would try to keep what you have just repair it ..
Seeems by this statement ,that installed injectors from HD can be 10% different even with same part # MY prev posting on injector matching was meet with U dont know :turd: :wtf: I would also check injector pressure while your into it. Takes 5 minutes
So you're saying the fuel injection system needs a petcock just like a carberator?
What's old is new.
well a matched set of injectors is rather funny . As they will find a set that is close at a given pressure and duty cycle .. Its not like they are a spot on match across the board . they are what they are you tune it to correct for variance .
well men...I let the oil drain over night. I put fresh oil in this morning and I jerked the seat and the tank. kd...I ate my Wheaties and lifted it right off. :hyst:
I used that little rig I made and I cleaned both injectors. The injector in question when I 1st shot the cleaner thru it, it didn't really give a full stream like I would want to see. I was definitely clogged a little bit. I gave it two more shots of the cleaner and it shot an excellent stream thru it. I turned my rig around and gave it a couple of shots of cleaner in the opposite direction...then a couple more on the feed side. When I cleaned the 2nd injector it shot a full excellent stream thru it the 1st time. Now both injectors are shooting the same stream thru them. I buttoned the bike back up and it fired right up and it went thru the cold idle process the way it should and it idled down to 1050. I'm going to get these shorts off and throw some pants on and put it in the wind to see how it does.
My points was /IS that having a chart on a set of injectors will help IF you ever need a single unit. As tuners tune with a set installed (matched or otherwise) and any change can/will cause the tune to change, a matched set WITH chart along WITH them marked to cylinder installed can be a coin saver. :potstir:
I was told to install the injector back in the same location a while back . I run sea foam in the gas often in the street glide and will also in the roadglide. Glad you got the injectors cleaned out. That would cause some grief if you had not found it . Would you mind posting the fixture you made to clean the injectors thanks Jim
Quote from: Hossamania on August 01, 2017, 07:39:19 AM
So you're saying the fuel injection system needs a petcock just like a carberator?
What's old is new.
I don't need one. Gas tank is under my ass. :wink: No pump, no workey.
Ron
here you go Jim.
It's an injector pigtail and a tire valve stem that I hollowed out and drilled the cap out for the straw. I silicone around the straw . You take the o-ring off the end of the injector and push the tire valve on. I hook alligator clips to the pigtail and I attach the other end of to one post of the 9V battery. I touch the other alligator clip to the battery and you should here the injector click. I pull the one lead to the battery back off and I give the can of cleaner a spray and touch the lead back on to the battery at the same time. It will spray the cleaner thru the injector.
[attach=0]
Ray, don't you think it's about time you salvaged a 9v battery connector out of an old smoke detector or something and wired it up with a push button instead of using those roach clips (I mean alligator clips :teeth:). If you're going to be using it this much it may as well be streamlined. :hyst: :hyst: :potstir:
Quote from: No Cents on August 01, 2017, 11:47:00 AM
here you go Jim.
It's an injector pigtail and a tire valve stem that I hollowed out and drilled the cap out for the straw. I silicone around the straw . You take the o-ring off the end of the injector and push the tire valve on. I hook alligator clips to the pigtail and I attach the other end of to one post of the 9V battery. I touch the other alligator clip to the battery and you should here the injector click. I pull the one lead to the battery back off and I give the can of cleaner a spray and touch the lead back on to the battery at the same time. It will spray the cleaner thru the injector.
[attach=0]
Thanks Ray I appreciate the advice help as usual lol
Jim...I will put the injector body in a vise with the rig hooked on to it. I clamp it in the vise just tight enough to hold it in place...but no hard clamping pressure applied to the injector housing. The vise is used as a third hand...plus it directs the spray out of the end of the injector in a known direction. It will spray the cleaner thru the injector outward a good 5- 6 feet. This allows me to use one hand on the spray nozzle of the cleaner and one hand touching the alligator clip to the battery. It's kind of a cheap crude set up...but it works good.
After cleaning the injectors the bike seems to be back to it's normal state.
Quote from: No Cents on August 01, 2017, 04:26:10 PM
After cleaning the injectors the bike seems to be back to it's normal state.
Normal state? so you have it torn apart again, pistons on the work bench? :hyst:
nope
Quote from: No Cents on August 02, 2017, 05:25:28 AM
nope
I have to wonder where you are getting this crud from in the first place. Filtration ok on your bike?
Ron
I don't know for sure Ron. :nix:
I ran some Sea Foam for the first time thru my tank and it happened right after that. I normally would run some Marvel's Mystery oil in the tank...but I decided to try the Sea Foam for the first time. When I run this tank of gas out I'm going to check my fuel filter to be on the safe side. I did put a new fuel filter in it last year.
My guess is the Sea Foam broke some crud loose and it got to the injector and stuck it open.
Quote from: No Cents on August 02, 2017, 06:10:43 AM
I don't know for sure Ron. :nix:
I ran some Sea Foam for the first time thru my tank and it happened right after that. I normally would run some Marvel's Mystery oil in the tank...but I decided to try the Sea Foam for the first time. When I run this tank of gas out I'm going to check my fuel filter to be on the safe side. I did put a new fuel filter in it last year.
My guess is the Sea Foam broke some crud loose and it got to the injector and stuck it open.
Interesting.
Ron
Quote from: No Cents on August 02, 2017, 06:10:43 AM
I don't know for sure Ron. :nix:
I ran some Sea Foam for the first time thru my tank and it happened right after that. I normally would run some Marvel's Mystery oil in the tank...but I decided to try the Sea Foam for the first time. When I run this tank of gas out I'm going to check my fuel filter to be on the safe side. I did put a new fuel filter in it last year.
My guess is the Sea Foam broke some crud loose and it got to the injector and stuck it open.
I like the Marvel Mystery oil its a good product. I pretty sure when you ran the sea foam and I use it a lot in my scooter it cut something loose . I not sure what the micro the fuel filer . I remember years ago I built a stain less steel fuel tank for a welder and installed it with a new carburetor. It went to flooding again after a while . WTF I had used a steel pipe cap for the filler cap . The rust off the cap was getting under the needle on the seat . Damn lesson learned . Replaced the cap with SS and installed a magnet in the tank just in case
Quote from: PoorUB on August 02, 2017, 05:23:33 AM
Quote from: No Cents on August 01, 2017, 04:26:10 PM
After cleaning the injectors the bike seems to be back to it's normal state.
Normal state? so you have it torn apart again, pistons on the work bench? :hyst:
PoorUB...here is proof for you that I don't have the pistons sitting on the work bench. :hyst:
https://youtu.be/r2EmsB8Xm2Y
I guess you can start calling me Ray..... :hyst:
[attach=0]
now I don't feel so lonely :hyst: It makes me feel good to see someone else putting together a big dumb 124"er. :up: I know I like mine dumbed down from the 12.2 compression that I ran in it last summer.
Brian...now if that was my picture...I'd have that beast of an engine sitting in the frame by days end. Hell...I would of took a vacation day to get it in there. I kind of miss those old 8-up days. :kick:
I know I've had enough excitement lately with that injector sticking open like it did. :doh: I'm just glad I walked back out to the barn when I did to catch it as quick as I did.
I just got back from a little ride on it...it's running like it should again. :SM:
That's actually the old 117 sitting there, I just had time to pull it out last night. I need to clean the frame up, and then the 124 goes in. But I'm waiting on a stater stator and a primary chain tensioner, I don't expect them till next week.
Quote from: No Cents on August 03, 2017, 08:50:44 AM
PoorUB...here is proof for you that I don't have the pistons sitting on the work bench. :hyst:
https://youtu.be/r2EmsB8Xm2Y
I was wondering! When you said normal state I figured you had it tore apart again. I swear it has to be laying in pieces more than it is in one piece! :hyst:
Ohio, I think Ray J fits, ya know for Ray Junior. But keep in mind you need to tear the engine down 3-4 times a year to keep that moniker! :hyst:
Well, I guess I'm only a Jr. in comparison... :teeth:
Quote from: No Cents on August 01, 2017, 11:47:00 AM
here you go Jim.
It's an injector pigtail and a tire valve stem that I hollowed out and drilled the cap out for the straw. I silicone around the straw . You take the o-ring off the end of the injector and push the tire valve on. I hook alligator clips to the pigtail and I attach the other end of to one post of the 9V battery. I touch the other alligator clip to the battery and you should here the injector click. I pull the one lead to the battery back off and I give the can of cleaner a spray and touch the lead back on to the battery at the same time. It will spray the cleaner thru the injector.
[attach=0]
That's downright ingenious. Patent pending? :wink:
Jim
Ray hows retirement going. You fitting into it ok?
Fitting into it like a glove.
Everyday is just like a Saturday. :teeth:
Quote from: No Cents on August 04, 2017, 06:58:13 AM
Fitting into it like a glove.
Everyday is just like a Saturday. :teeth:
Got to love that!
Quote from: Hossamania on August 04, 2017, 06:59:41 AM
Quote from: No Cents on August 04, 2017, 06:58:13 AM
Fitting into it like a glove.
Everyday is just like a Saturday. :teeth:
Got to love that!
:up:
It ain't bad Hoss.
The bills are paid and the refrigerator is full.
When the wifeepooh goes to work...I will jump on the bike and go. She only works a three or four days out of the week now...so I take full advantage of the chance to ride while she is working. I'll leave after she has gone to work...and I make sure I make it home before she does. Sometimes she will ask me what did you do today...and I'll say nothing much. :scoot:
I figure what she don't know....won't hurt her. :hyst:
Beats the hell out of doing yard work!
Quote from: No Cents on August 04, 2017, 07:12:07 AM
Quote from: Hossamania on August 04, 2017, 06:59:41 AM
Quote from: No Cents on August 04, 2017, 06:58:13 AM
Fitting into it like a glove.
Everyday is just like a Saturday. :teeth:
Got to love that!
:up:
It ain't bad Hoss.
The bills are paid and the refrigerator is full.
When the wifeepooh goes to work...I will jump on the bike and go. She only works a three or four days out of the week now...so I take full advantage of the chance to ride while she is working. I'll leave after she has gone to work...and I make sure I make it home before she does. Sometimes she will ask me what did you do today...and I'll say nothing much. :scoot:
I figure what she don't know....won't hurt her. :hyst:
Your lucky , she just didn't figure out yet to call you from work at 9 am , and ask what are your plans for the day?? Then they double check when home what did you do all day.?
Quote from: No Cents on August 04, 2017, 07:12:07 AM
Quote from: Hossamania on August 04, 2017, 06:59:41 AM
Quote from: No Cents on August 04, 2017, 06:58:13 AM
Fitting into it like a glove.
Everyday is just like a Saturday. :teeth:
Got to love that!
:up:
It ain't bad Hoss.
The bills are paid and the refrigerator is full.
When the wifeepooh goes to work...I will jump on the bike and go. She only works a three or four days out of the week now...so I take full advantage of the chance to ride while she is working. I'll leave after she has gone to work...and I make sure I make it home before she does. Sometimes she will ask me what did you do today...and I'll say nothing much. :scoot:
I figure what she don't know....won't hurt her. :hyst:
Wow! Brings back memories when I used to work!
I'd head out to work and didn't know Brandy was jumping the fence and roaming the neighborhood then jumping back in just before I got home!
LOL
Oh yeah, Brandy was my golden lab, but I think my wife was with her.
:missed:
Sorry about going off topic,