Bored a 120R to 124 looking for options for cam with lots of bottom end 10.8:1 on a NIGHT train
T-Man 662-2
Tman 662-1 is a torqueier version with a littlle less on the right and his 660SM is very similar to the 662-2 with reported better parking lot manners. Tman claimed the 660SM to be a higher lift version of his 590. Here's a 660SM in a 120. The curves seem to be consistent with the 662-2. One member posted both 662-2 and 660SM for comparison in a dyno thread here a couple of years ago. He said in a street performance test :SM: both were side by side though the gears.
http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?topic=99409.0
662-1 is not a current offering by T-Man though.
Another good set of cams to use, maybe look at Red Shift RS 657 if a higher cylinder pressure is wanted.
I'm sure happy with the T-Man 625's in my 120R(at 10.5:1). Pulls hard off idle, and keeps pulling. Torque curve, doesn't have much curve in it!
Quote from: akjeff on January 19, 2019, 05:14:20 PM
I'm sure happy with the T-Man 625's in my 120R(at 10.5:1). Pulls hard off idle, and keeps pulling. Torque curve, doesn't have much curve in it!
Jeff,
Your inbox is full.
Do you have a dyno sheet online? What exhaust do you run?
RTMike: Related thread http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?topic=107394.0
Dave
Cleaned out the PM box! :embarrassed:
I had the dyno sheet posted, but just looked it up, and f&$cking photo bucket has it locked out. Guess I gotta figure out how to post photos again. Try PM'ing me again, with an email, and I can send you the dyno sheet. In the meantime, anyone have a link to a good free image hosting service?
Jeff
A wood 999-6 or 9b would do it
Quote from: akjeff on January 20, 2019, 10:16:22 AM
Cleaned out the PM box! :embarrassed:
I had the dyno sheet posted, but just looked it up, and f&$cking photo bucket has it locked out. Guess I gotta figure out how to post photos again. Try PM'ing me again, with an email, and I can send you the dyno sheet. In the meantime, anyone have a link to a good free image hosting service?
Jeff
Got it Jeff, I put it back where it belongs.
http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?topic=85003.msg956578#msg956578
Thanks Brian! :beer:
T-Man 625 are a very good bottom end cams ...but the CR630i might be exactly what your looking for.
At 10.8 that SnS 585 always early broad torque
Haven't run the 625 but I have run the 662-2 and 630i in the same motor. I agree with Ray on this one, 630i hands down for me.
In that plug and play application, we use a Wood 9B, at 10.8 cr.
If you jump the squeeze to 11.2, a Wood 9F, or T-Man 662-2.
I've got a 120" @ 11.3 compression. I've used both the 662-1 & 662-2 at the 11.3. Using the 662 -2 now. The -1 was a torque monster @ that compression I had120ftlb @ 2000 rpms. Peaking at 140 ftlb, But too much like a electric motor on or off, no in between. The 662-2 is much more street friendly imho.
That said if you want huge tq. Bob Wood suggested his 408 to me, even at the 11.3.
I did use the 408 in a 95" made slightly better hp & tq over the T-man 625. The 95"was set at 10.5 compression.
I would like to try the 630i next ??? But not sure any benifit i might see would be worth the cost.
ig you get lucky and its quiet the woods TW8G is the best cam I had on my 116" I got 132 hp 140Tq the dyno is on woods website , I loved that cam but it was a little noisey I run the TW9BG at +2 now but also at 11.3 COMP . still think about the 8's they were some arm pulling cams,
We've used that 8 cam since back in the mid-1990's in 80" Evo's, when Bob Wood cam to the VTwin market.
Without breaking a sweat, those will show 93-95 hp, and same torque, set up correctly.
I use the 9b with cr under 11.0
Here we go checked with the owner and the piston kit is a TMan 124 kit with 4.5 cc pop ups.So that makes it 11.25.I like the 662-2PS2 but am concerned about detination as this is a carbureted machine
I'm running a carb on my 120" @ 11.3. Read a few posts up. No issues using the S&S IST ignition.
Not running the cam you mentioned. But the 662-1 and -2 no issues.
Can someone explain the T-man nomenclature?
-1?
-2?
PS?
PM?
-1 is old, -2 is new?
PM is old, PS is new?
Anyone have a chart with specs on previous grinds?
TIA
Dave
662-1: 23/45 (248) .660": 49/21 (250) .660"
662-2: 23/51 (254) .660": 54/22 (256) .660"
662-3: 29/61 (270) .660": 64/24 (268) .660"
PS grinds have the updated ramps, supposed to address the areas on the lobes that create most of the noise.
(the area between .000" lift and .053" lift that designers don't talk about)
Thanks, rigidthumper,
I didn't realize that the duration changed too.
I am with you on the importance of seat to .053". Some feel that it's meaningless, which I find absurd. I find it interesting that Andrews publishes .020" data. Fwiw, I did ask Zippers for .020" duration on one of their grinds.They did supply the numbers. I tried same at S&S, no dice.
Here's a thread at cvo that you might get a chuckle out of.
https://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=115989.30
To the OP, I hope that you find this related.
Dave
Quote from: rigidthumper on January 25, 2019, 09:54:49 AM
662-1: 23/45 (248) .660": 49/21 (250) .660"
662-2: 23/51 (254) .660": 54/22 (256) .660"
662-3: 29/61 (270) .660": 64/24 (268) .660"
PS grinds have the updated ramps, supposed to address the areas on the lobes that create most of the noise.
(the area between .000" lift and .053" lift that designers don't talk about)
[attach=0] one of these on the box would give a clearer picture of what's inside, yes I know it won't happen but the reality is that anyone with the capacity to reproduce a cam can certainly measure one to copy anyway, wonder how many different brands would look real similar :teeth:
I'm awfully ignorant, but I'm aware how much the hidden info can affect power- if you take a cam that has advertised 271° seat to seat duration, and 235° duration @ .053" lift, it would take lab quality measuring equipment to know w/in a tenth° what the .000-.053 (how fast the rise) duration is, and what the .053"-.000 (how fast the fall) duration is.
This sim has the same timing #s @.053", 107.5° lobe centers, 10/45, 45/10, all the info you'd find on the cam card. I gave it 18 degrees from .000-.053, and 18° from .053-.000 to balance the ramp intensity. Next run I shifted 10 degrees from the lead in side to the let down side, which makes better power. This causes a more rapid valve opening, which can be harder on lifters and guides. and a quieter, gentler valve closing. Trade offs everywhere you look.
Thanks Robin, it is a bit above my pay grade but I understand what you say there, I would love to see the 57 and 37 mapped out, I ran both of those in the same bike with no other changes except to tune it, 97" 4" stroke, the 37 was better, I don't know why, the 57 just felt off in the higher rev range where the 37's sung.
Quote from: RTMike on January 24, 2019, 07:26:11 AM
Here we go checked with the owner and the piston kit is a TMan 124 kit with 4.5 cc pop ups.So that makes it 11.25.I like the 662-2PS2 but am concerned about detination as this is a carbureted machine
On a carbed bike, we like to hold the ccp in the sub-200 zone.
195 is our threshold.
There are several cam measuring machines out there, the old Cam Dr, for one. Those can usually be had used for a Grand or so. They measure to a ten thousandth of an inch and a tenth of a degree. That's plenty for anyone not engaged in the business of cam grinding, and even some I know of that are.
A degree wheel, lathe, pointer, and 1" travel dial indicator is all that's necessary to measure lift, duration at advertised, duration at .053, and at .200, and lobe centerline. If you are careful you can get very good results of the cams ramp rate too. The shorter the degree difference between advertised, .053, and .200 gives you the ramp rate. Those are the most important, non changeable characteristics (to the end user) of a cam. With an offset sprocket you can change the advance or retard of the cam. There are several good cams out there that are made better by retarding them 4 degrees.
We won't buy any cam from anyone that doesn't supply those specs, as many are simply reboxed versions of an off the shelf cam with a lot of added hype. I learned that 30 years ago when I bought my first cam analyzer... TIMINATOR
At 10.8:1 I used Tman 660sm. All day arse kicker in a 120r with good manners.
The old Crane HTC 296-2 wOrked well also.