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Latest SE comp screw question

Started by billbuilds, May 24, 2018, 01:47:05 PM

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billbuilds

      Is it really unwise to re-use the 10500031 SE comp screw?  Mine has not been in there that long but after reading the thread on sprocket shaft spacers for S&S 124 crate motors I got to second guessing myself on which spacer I used even though the chain looked well aligned.  :bf:  The correct spacer is in there but now I (per the SM) need a new comp screw and no dealership this state has one. There's one in the next state over but it'll cost twice as much to ship here as the cost of the screw. Is it really not wise to re-use the old one? Is any thought of doing so being penny wise and pound foolish?  Bill

PoorUB

For what it is worth I reused mine in my 2010 2-3 times before I replaced it. I would reuse it and not worry about it and order one in to have on the shelf for next time.
I am an adult?? When did that happen, and how do I make it stop?!

billbuilds

Quote from: PoorUB on May 24, 2018, 02:35:18 PM
For what it is worth I reused mine in my 2010 2-3 times before I replaced it. I would reuse it and not worry about it and order one in to have on the shelf for next time.

        OK, cool, Did you use red locktite after you (I assume) chased the lock patch from the threads?

Coyote


rbabos

Technically it's not good practice to reuse it but everyone does. Repeated torque cycles of remove and install will kill it eventually and snap off. At this point you have a threaded section , red loctited inside the crank. Talk about breaking out into a cold sweat. :hyst:
If the dealer doesn't stock them, shame on them for lack of knowledge.
Ron

Ohio HD

Quote from: rbabos on May 24, 2018, 03:38:25 PM
Technically it's not good practice to reuse it but everyone does. Repeated torque cycles of remove and install will kill it eventually and snap off. At this point you have a threaded section , red loctited inside the crank. Talk about breaking out into a cold sweat. :hyst:
If the dealer doesn't stock them, shame on them for lack of knowledge.
Ron
I've found this to be the case Ron, both the new and old style bolt. So I keep them here so I don't have to reuse them. I don't even want to think about breaking one off in an expensive crankshaft. I won't reuse them simply because I'd have to kick my own azz if one broke.



PoorUB

If the dealer does not stock them what do ya think they are doing? :doh:
I am an adult?? When did that happen, and how do I make it stop?!

Ohio HD

Doesn't matter to me, they don't work on my bike.   

rbabos

Quote from: PoorUB on May 24, 2018, 03:49:17 PM
If the dealer does not stock them what do ya think they are doing? :doh:
Well, we all know how well some of them do things sometimes. Even if a tech knows better, if none in the shelves, what choice does he have if he's on the clock? So yes, they reuse them most likely.
Ron

billbuilds

Quote from: Ohio HD on May 24, 2018, 03:41:45 PM
Quote from: rbabos on May 24, 2018, 03:38:25 PM
Technically it's not good practice to reuse it but everyone does. Repeated torque cycles of remove and install will kill it eventually and snap off. At this point you have a threaded section , red loctited inside the crank. Talk about breaking out into a cold sweat. :hyst:
If the dealer doesn't stock them, shame on them for lack of knowledge.
Ron
I've found this to be the case Ron, both the new and old style bolt. So I keep them here so I don't have to reuse them. I don't even want to think about breaking one off in an expensive crankshaft. I won't reuse them simply because I'd have to kick my own azz if one broke.

      Thanks Ron, your technical expertise is always appreciated. The  dealerships in this neck of the woods (Maine) seem to be running their parts inventories really, really lean.

      Is it an expensive crank? Yes.  Am I feeling lucky? Not particularly.   Thanks for all the replies. Bill   




rbabos

Quote from: billbuilds on May 24, 2018, 04:04:24 PM
Quote from: Ohio HD on May 24, 2018, 03:41:45 PM
Quote from: rbabos on May 24, 2018, 03:38:25 PM
Technically it's not good practice to reuse it but everyone does. Repeated torque cycles of remove and install will kill it eventually and snap off. At this point you have a threaded section , red loctited inside the crank. Talk about breaking out into a cold sweat. :hyst:
If the dealer doesn't stock them, shame on them for lack of knowledge.
Ron
I've found this to be the case Ron, both the new and old style bolt. So I keep them here so I don't have to reuse them. I don't even want to think about breaking one off in an expensive crankshaft. I won't reuse them simply because I'd have to kick my own azz if one broke.

      Thanks Ron, your technical expertise is always appreciated. The  dealerships in this neck of the woods (Maine) seem to be running their parts inventories really, really lean.

      Is it an expensive crank? Yes.  Am I feeling lucky? Not particularly.   Thanks for all the replies. Bill   
It all hinges on how close to the yield point the bolt was exposed to. This determines reusable or not. I suspect it's a grade 9 fastener and near 100% stretch at 175-180' lbs. It better be grade 9 because it's past grade 8 max torque. Anyway, we all know just about every bolt on the bike is tighter then manual specs. If the original bolt was more then 175 at the factory, I question it's reuse as the threads have reached elongation and should be replaced. That's basically where my mind is with their reuse. Bolts are cheap but as we know, but  these suckers are reused all the time, not that it's the right thing to do.
Ron

BB Stacker

I managed to snap one off, and yes, talk about being in a panic. I got lucky and there is a guy in SoCal that specializes in this. Cost me $250 to get the broken piece out of the crank.

biggzed

Service department at my local dealer has separate parts inventory on some parts vs the parts counter. I wouldn't be surprised if the service department has some and the parts counter does not.

Also consider when you make an appointment with the service department it is usually booked out several days to several weeks. Gives them time to order parts if needed.

Zach

Quote from: PoorUB on May 24, 2018, 03:49:17 PM
If the dealer does not stock them what do ya think they are doing? :doh:

PoorUB

Quote from: biggzed on January 10, 2019, 02:28:18 PM
Service department at my local dealer has separate parts inventory on some parts vs the parts counter.

I seriously doubt that they have two separate inventories, other than parts ordered in for specific customer jobs.

Why double up on inventory?? If they sell one or two compensators a month between the shop and showroom they stock two? One for each side, and heaven forbid they pull showroom stock for the shop, or vice-versa? Sorry, I don't buy it. If there is a separate inventory it would be very small, maybe some service parts, oil, filters, very common parts.

The local dealer here has one inventory, but a parts guy on the shop side and 2-3 guys on the showroom side, all pulling parts out of the same stock.
I am an adult?? When did that happen, and how do I make it stop?!

biggzed

That's why I wrote "on some parts". You're right, big dollar compensators don't make sense.

I went in to buy a cam cover gasket. Parts guy told me they were out. Another parts guy told him to check with service to see of they could transfer one over. They did and I walked out with the part.  :nix:

Zach

Quote from: PoorUB on January 10, 2019, 03:23:41 PM
Quote from: biggzed on January 10, 2019, 02:28:18 PM
Service department at my local dealer has separate parts inventory on some parts vs the parts counter.

I seriously doubt that they have two separate inventories, other than parts ordered in for specific customer jobs.

Why double up on inventory?? If they sell one or two compensators a month between the shop and showroom they stock two? One for each side, and heaven forbid they pull showroom stock for the shop, or vice-versa? Sorry, I don't buy it. If there is a separate inventory it would be very small, maybe some service parts, oil, filters, very common parts.

The local dealer here has one inventory, but a parts guy on the shop side and 2-3 guys on the showroom side, all pulling parts out of the same stock.

PoorUB

Quote from: biggzed on January 10, 2019, 03:36:12 PM
That's why I wrote "on some parts". You're right, big dollar compensators don't make sense.

I went in to buy a cam cover gasket. Parts guy told me they were out. Another parts guy told him to check with service to see of they could transfer one over. They did and I walked out with the part.  :nix:

Zach

That kinda blows my mind! I don't understand the logic behind it.
I am an adult?? When did that happen, and how do I make it stop?!

biggzed

In the end they aren't maintaining 2 inventories. They are just allocating their inventory across 2 departments. The service department is the cash cow of a dealership (t-shirts not withstanding). It's all about turns in the service area. Keeping them always in stock on maintenance items (gaskets, hardware, fluids etc) is really important. Making walk in customers who work on their own bikes occasionally wait 3-5 days for those items (which they probably make small $$ on) is not the end of the world to them.

Maybe the guy was just doing me a solid. It's not like I'm a big customer to that dealership. I buy very little from dealers. Could have been a one off thing.

Zach

Quote from: PoorUB on January 10, 2019, 03:44:43 PM
Quote from: biggzed on January 10, 2019, 03:36:12 PM
That's why I wrote "on some parts". You're right, big dollar compensators don't make sense.

I went in to buy a cam cover gasket. Parts guy told me they were out. Another parts guy told him to check with service to see of they could transfer one over. They did and I walked out with the part.  :nix:

Zach

That kinda blows my mind! I don't understand the logic behind it.

jmorton10

Quote from: BB Stacker on January 09, 2019, 10:43:32 PM
I managed to snap one off, and yes, talk about being in a panic.

LOL, I think I might have a heart attack if I ever broke one off in my S&S crank.

I have mine apart right now & had already bought a new Torx bolt from my local dealer a month ago (I believe it was $5.20)

~John
HC 124", Dragula, Pingel air shift W/Dyna Shift Minder & onboard compressor, NOS

rageglide

I've been more worried about stripping the female in the bolt or breaking the torx bit, as opposed to breaking that bolt.  It's a big SOB...  But like jmorton said, 5.20, cheap enough to buy new, yet none of the dealers stock it...

Still using my original reused at least 5 times torqued to 175-180ft-lbs.   Cleaned and red 262.

Maybe I should buy a lottery ticket?

billbuilds

    I just checked with one of the dealerships here in Maine and there still ain't a single one of  the 10500031 screws in the entire state (five dealerships in all). There are six of them at one dealership alone just over the boarder in New Hampshire. The parts guy that I spoke with at the dealership nearest me told me that according to the info he was looking at on his computer screen they had never sold one of those screws. How they can stock the latest and greatest SE comp but not the screw just leaves me  :scratch:  Nobody at that particular dealership has ever mentioned anything about separate inventories of parts in the service department. The dealership in the "sales tax-free" state gets $6.95 for them. Bill

rbabos

Quote from: billbuilds on January 12, 2019, 06:30:05 AM
    I just checked with one of the dealerships here in Maine and there still ain't a single one of  the 10500031 screws in the entire state (five dealerships in all). There are six of them at one dealership alone just over the boarder in New Hampshire. The parts guy that I spoke with at the dealership nearest me told me that according to the info he was looking at on his computer screen they had never sold one of those screws. How they can stock the latest and greatest SE comp but not the screw just leaves me  :scratch:  Nobody at that particular dealership has ever mentioned anything about separate inventories of parts in the service department. The dealership in the "sales tax-free" state gets $6.95 for them. Bill
Just plain dumbass if you ask me. If you do a retrofit, that tapered bolt is part of the package. Old bolt won't work well from a pre 14 comp.
Ron

PoorUB

Quote from: rbabos on January 12, 2019, 09:11:42 AM
Quote from: billbuilds on January 12, 2019, 06:30:05 AM
    I just checked with one of the dealerships here in Maine and there still ain't a single one of  the 10500031 screws in the entire state (five dealerships in all). There are six of them at one dealership alone just over the boarder in New Hampshire. The parts guy that I spoke with at the dealership nearest me told me that according to the info he was looking at on his computer screen they had never sold one of those screws. How they can stock the latest and greatest SE comp but not the screw just leaves me  :scratch:  Nobody at that particular dealership has ever mentioned anything about separate inventories of parts in the service department. The dealership in the "sales tax-free" state gets $6.95 for them. Bill
Just plain dumbass if you ask me. If you do a retrofit, that tapered bolt is part of the package. Old bolt won't work well from a pre 14 comp.
Ron

Pretty sure the bolt comes with the kit, but you are not supposed to reuse them. You would think that most dealers would have a couple on hand.
I am an adult?? When did that happen, and how do I make it stop?!

billbuilds

    Sorry, I should have said I don't understand why they don't stock the screw separately. I realize that they come with the kit.

rbabos

Quote from: billbuilds on January 12, 2019, 03:47:09 PM
    Sorry, I should have said I don't understand why they don't stock the screw separately. I realize that they come with the kit.
That make sense then. I do remember back in the SE comp 08 and 08A days my dealer had spare bolts on the shelf. I went through a few testing stuff. Times have changed. Dealers don't stock "Potty mouth" any more.
Ron

Moparnut72

A couple of years ago I was working at a NAPA store. The manager started sending a lot of stock back to the warehouse. We were having to order a lot of stuff that we usually had in stock. He was let go for other reasons. The new manager worked hard at restocking the store. I quit shortly afterward so I could have summer off, I am actually retired. I went in the other day to get an oil filter for my wife's 2015 Hemi Durango. No filter in stock. WTF? A very common application, not the Durango so much but Hemi is. The counterman, a friend,  told me the manager was not ordering much of anything for stock. I think it boils down to in a lot of cases that this helps in the bottom line resulting in a bigger bonus at the end of the year. But overall? I had to run across town to Car Quest and have been buying my stuff there ever since. Also NAPA pulled my discount so I have no reason to go there anymore anyway.
kk
If you find yourself in a fair fight,
You didn't prepare properly.

Hossamania

So it's an auto parts store that doesn't carry auto parts? Seems like a recipe for failure.
If the government gives you everything you want,
it can take away everything you have.

rigidthumper

"You can't sell from an empty wagon"- Eddie Boomhower
Ignorance is bliss, and accuracy expensive. How much of either can you afford?

Heinz

On a related note it's highly recommended after taking the comp bolt out that you use a bottoming tap and get all the red Loctite out of the female threads otherwise there's a good chance when you retighten it you're going to get a false torque reading and the bolt isn't going to be properly set to hold the compensator assembly in place where it belongs.

Ohio HD

What is a safer alternative to using a tap in already cut threads is to use a thread chaser. In the event that you don't have one that large, take the old bolt, cut two length wise groves into the threads (complete length of the threads) to make a passage for the junk in the crank threads to build up.

I agree to clean the threads is a must do when using loctite. Buying a thread chaser kit is not very expensive, and they get used a lot working on HD's.


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Hossamania

I think I pull my thread chaser kit out almost every time I work on mine.
If the government gives you everything you want,
it can take away everything you have.