Andrews 57H installed....some questions

[BVHOG]

I have seen the 57s compared to the 54s many times, if you think they are similar just hold them up next to each other and look at the lobes, the 57 is MUCH more aggressive.

[PoorUB]

He already has the 57. good cam for future upgrades.In lieu of the increasing compression now 4 degrees will increase the ccp.  He can pay for his PV license and a gear have good riding bike. I enjoy teaching guys and finding solutions to save money. To answer your question the 48 has always felt seat of the pants an out of breath cam. The 10degrees in valve closing has a big effect how those two cams feel.

I have run them both, but I like to wind it up a bit every so often and the 48's just were kind of blah to me. I milled the heads and dropped in a set of 57's and they made me smile!

[doctorevil]

The only thing A 48 would do is pull a trailer.

[Ohio HD]

Although no one will make the claim a 96 inch with 48 cams is a power house. It definitely is a couple notches better than a trailer pulling only bike. They work even better in a 103 inch. Good tune is the key to everything.


https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?topic=98936.msg1155981#msg1155981

[sfmichael]

I chuckled at the trailer reply myself. The 48 has about .050 more lift, over 20* more duration and over 30* more overlap than a stock cam. I'm recalling those figures from memory but no way that it wouldn't make a significant difference with the right accompanying components and a competent tune. Close to same intake closing as stock so cylinder pressure should remain high. Ballin' on a budget 

[Tail Ridr]

"48...seat of pants...out of breath"

https://www.facebook.com/jandbperformance/photos/pcb.2517065334987407/2517065084987432/?type=3&theater

Not sure, but this build would hold its own against a lot of builds I've seen posted here.

[PoorUB]

A 103" with stock heads and compression, 48's pulling close to 120 FtLbs?? I am sorry, but I don't buy it! Very happy dyno!

[Ohio HD]

I don't think it's so impossible. Let's look at some things. Numbers below are from the link below them, and I assume these are STD numbers.

Harley-Davidson Twin Cam (1584cc / 96" 45 degree single plug v-twin with F.I.) – 66hp & 82 ft lbs of torque

Harley-Davidson Twin Cam (1688cc / 103" 45 degree single plug v-twin with F.I.) – 83hp & 95 ft lbs of torque

http://boydcycles.com/hp/

So in estimation, the numbers below may be a close SAE number for torque.

96" @ 82 ft. lbs. x 0.96 = 79 ft. lbs.
103" @ 95 ft. lbs. x 0.96 = 91 ft. lbs.

My 96" with 48's @ 106 ft. lbs. So this is 79 ft. lbs. x 134% increase = 106 ft. lbs.

A 103" with 48's @ 119 ft. lbs. So this is 91 ft. lbs. x 134% increase = 122 ft. lbs.


It's not so impossible to see 119 ft. lbs. IMHO.

Jim Kennedy ran a dyno on a stock 103", really close to what the Boyd site shows. And as I said, I believe what they show is STD, Jim's is SAE.

https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?topic=79206.msg879317#msg879317

[PoorUB]

I missed the STD .

I looked back and it seems to me that most 48's with stock heads might get around 110 FtLbs, head work will get 120FtLbs. In general how much difference is there from STD to SAE readings?

[1workinman]

My opinion.
1- Those cams are great. They also leave room to make more power when "biko-boredom sets in.
2- Loose the Fuelpak, and let Blackhills Ken map the bike properly.
John

Keeping the air fuel ratio proper is a good idea along with the timing , you can do some damage to the engine if its not right. To much investment for me not to want the engine running proper .  I not a expert except on spending money on Harleys damn lol  Having the engine built , heat cycled , then tuned on a dyno is the way I want it done

[Norton Commando]

... I assume these are STD numbers.

What are STD numbers?

Best,

Jason

[rigidthumper]

Correction factor. Dynojet allows the operator to show numbers as measured, or based off of a standard set of conditions.
Choices are Uncorrected, SAE, DIN, EEC,STD, or JIS.

[Ohio HD]

There is a lot to read on the net about the standards set for reading HP and torque. As well on the HTT site there has been discussion and a few posts over the years.


http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?topic=50588.0

[Norton Commando]

Correction factor. Dynojet allows the operator to show numbers as measured, or based off of a standard set of conditions.
Choices are Uncorrected, SAE, DIN, EEC,STD, or JIS.

There is a lot to read on the net about the standards set for reading HP and torque. As well on the HTT site there has been discussion and a few posts over the years.

http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?topic=50588.0

Ok, got it, thanks. I am quite familiar with SAE and DIN for measuring hp and torque, but had not heard of STD.

Jason

[Alexintenn]

Glad I found this post!  I just bought a 2006 with Screaming Eagle 2 into 1  (has the plates like a Super trap).  K&N filter and Andrew's TW 26 cams.  The bike is strong in lower revs, but gutless above about 4200 rpm.  I've been considering auto tuners and have checked out claims and reviews.  But I think after reading this thread a power commander 5 and a dyno run is in my futute

[Ohio HD]

Since you're in Tennessee, I'd call these guys before even buying anything. Let them tune the bike and suggest the tuner type.

J&B Performance Cycles


https://www.facebook.com/pg/jandbperformance/about/?ref=page_internal

[PoorUB]

Glad I found this post!  I just bought a 2006 with Screaming Eagle 2 into 1  (has the plates like a Super trap).  K&N filter and Andrew's TW 26 cams.  The bike is strong in lower revs, but gutless above about 4200 rpm.  I've been considering auto tuners and have checked out claims and reviews.  But I think after reading this thread a power commander 5 and a dyno run is in my futute

I ran the 26's in a 95". They need more compression than stock to really shine. I milled .030" off the heads and used a .030" head gasket. It certainly was not gutless at upper RPM.

[Ohio HD]

Cams that require more compression are generally sluggish in the lower RPM's not upper. More compression helps everywhere, but a proper tune is needed. I think you just need to seek a competent tuner, and also do not buy a tuning devise until after you select the shop and listen to them.

[Alexintenn]

Gonna call J&B Monday.  Local shop in Knox (Cycle Stop)  offered Dyonojet 5 and tuning for $550.

I just bought this bike and have already spent more than i meant too on crash bars, handlebars and lowering blocks.   

But his one is a keeper so it makes sense to get it running right.  At 80 mph in 5th gear, I go WOT and it just slowly gains speed.  I will finally pull a little over 100, but it takes awhile to get there.  It just feels like it should do better.  Makes me guess it could be way lean.  Also runs a little rough at constant throttle at 50 or so and has some popping on decel. 

Don't get me wrong, the bike runs pretty well, and I don't care if it is faster.  I just want it to run the way the engine should.

[Ohio HD]

J&B Will use a Power Vision, you can buy a license for around $200.00 I think, but they can tell you. They'll also get your tune optimized, AFR, timing, cold and hot starts, ETC. This way you also don't have an add on box that may fail later. Power commanders are older technology.

[Chippitt68]

This is worth a look before you take it to tuner. No sense tuning if it's not sound.
http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?topic=35334.0