HarleyTechTalk

Technical Forums => General => Topic started by: xlfan on April 13, 2019, 05:08:08 AM

Title: Total scavenge oil change
Post by: xlfan on April 13, 2019, 05:08:08 AM
Would it cause any harm to the return side of the oil pump, to run an extra quart of oil out the oil filter mount base without the oil filter?
Title: Re: Total scavenge oil change
Post by: Dmerch on April 13, 2019, 05:15:38 AM
You can pull the sump plug and drain about 15 or 16 ozs from there. Between that and the oil pan, should be about all you can get.
Title: Re: Total scavenge oil change
Post by: rigidthumper on April 13, 2019, 06:06:23 AM
On a Twin Cam, it wastes oil- the feed side goes from the tank, to the pump, to the filter, then to the motor.
Title: Re: Total scavenge oil change
Post by: kd on April 13, 2019, 06:30:03 AM
It always bothered me that I was leaving about a quart (or 25%) of the old used oil in the system when I changed the oil normally.  I saw it as contaminating the new oil and reducing the value.  Also, the dollars spent and care taken on a built engine wasn't getting the full protection of the oil change that was intended.  I read about the Rogue total oil change kit and a friend said after he started using one, at the 5000 mile oil change, his oil still looked like honey, as apposed to the dark black fluid he used to drain out.  I figured if removing that last 25% made that much difference I would try it.  I found the same and now I have the kit.  It takes a couple of minutes more to run out that last bit of oil, but as you do it you are replacing it with clean oil which actually saves time.  You end up getting a 100% oil exchange (sump . pan and lines, minus cling) every time.


https://roguechopper.com/
Title: Re: Total scavenge oil change
Post by: koko3052 on April 13, 2019, 09:02:38 AM
After watching Rogues vid I have to disagree. As the twinky  feeds oil from tank to pump to filter to engine & the vid shows the engine running & the oil running out, then how is the engine getting oil? It has to be getting some oil from the filter adapter or you are starving your engine. Now if it is doing that, then used oil is still getting mixed with the fresh. As rigidthumper says....it just wastes oil!
If you are wasting a quart every change then why not just change your oil a quarter of the mileage sooner? That will come out to the same cost. :potstir:
Title: Re: Total scavenge oil change
Post by: Ironheadmike on April 13, 2019, 11:47:08 AM
About 20 or so years ago I bought a scavenge . I was made of plastic and a clear hose . I paid five bucks for it . Last fall I put it in the garbage can to drain and I forgot about it . Now I  only can find one for sixty bucks , that's crazy .
Title: Re: Total scavenge oil change
Post by: Paniolo on April 13, 2019, 12:38:03 PM
About 30 years ago in Laughlin I watched a parking lot mechanic change oil in an EVO. He put a large cut plastic bottle over the oil filter housing and cranked the engine. Out came the used oil. He cleaned up the spillage with brake cleaner and that was it.
Title: Re: Total scavenge oil change
Post by: Hilly13 on April 13, 2019, 01:00:00 PM
Quote from: koko3052 on April 13, 2019, 09:02:38 AM
After watching Rogues vid I have to disagree. As the twinky  feeds oil from tank to pump to filter to engine & the vid shows the engine running & the oil running out, then how is the engine getting oil? It has to be getting some oil from the filter adapter or you are starving your engine. Now if it is doing that, then used oil is still getting mixed with the fresh. As rigidthumper says....it just wastes oil!
If you are wasting a quart every change then why not just change your oil a quarter of the mileage sooner? That will come out to the same cost. :potstir:
You put fresh oil in the tank and start the engine, on the twin cam the oil you see exiting the hose is what would normally be returning to tank, when it runs clear you shut the engine off, works like they say, Evo was different.
I do it, most dont, it gives me a warm fuzzy feeling knowing that I got 99% of the old oil out.
Title: Re: Total scavenge oil change
Post by: kd on April 13, 2019, 04:46:30 PM
Quote from: Hilly13 on April 13, 2019, 01:00:00 PM
Quote from: koko3052 on April 13, 2019, 09:02:38 AM
After watching Rogues vid I have to disagree. As the twinky  feeds oil from tank to pump to filter to engine & the vid shows the engine running & the oil running out, then how is the engine getting oil? It has to be getting some oil from the filter adapter or you are starving your engine. Now if it is doing that, then used oil is still getting mixed with the fresh. As rigidthumper says....it just wastes oil!
If you are wasting a quart every change then why not just change your oil a quarter of the mileage sooner? That will come out to the same cost. :potstir:
You put fresh oil in the tank and start the engine, on the twin cam the oil you see exiting the hose is what would normally be returning to tank, when it runs clear you shut the engine off, works like they say, Evo was different.
I do it, most dont, it gives me a warm fuzzy feeling knowing that I got 99% of the old oil out.



The system comes with a puck that screws on in place of the oil filter you have removed.  It channels the oil internally when you run the engine later in the process.  A fitting (in the kit) with a hose barb on one end  is screwed into the pipe plug hole next to the drain plug.  A clear hose is slipped one end onto the barb fitting and the other end is placed in a fresh quart of oil.  (the drain plug and dip stick are out)  You start the engine and the oil is instantly drawn into the engine from the fresh quart and the old oil it is replacing drains from the open drain plug hole.  When the quart is empty, you stick the hose into another quart, run it down 1/2 way and shut the engine off.  Allow the pan to drain off before reinserting the drain plug then fill to the mark on the dip stick.  If you are watching the oil drain while you feed the fresh oil in, at about the quart level you will start to see streaks of clear oil appear.  By the second 1/2 quart level it should be running out crystal clear indicating a full fresh oil system change.
Title: Re: Total scavenge oil change
Post by: road-dawgs1 on April 13, 2019, 04:54:22 PM
Quote from: Ironheadmike on April 13, 2019, 11:47:08 AM
About 20 or so years ago I bought a scavenge . I was made of plastic and a clear hose . I paid five bucks for it . Last fall I put it in the garbage can to drain and I forgot about it . Now I  only can find one for sixty bucks , that's crazy .

I have something similar, it's plastic and has a hose on it. Think I got it J&P sometime along. Can't remember the name of it.
Title: Re: Total scavenge oil change
Post by: Hilly13 on April 13, 2019, 10:59:45 PM
 :crash:
Quote from: kd on April 13, 2019, 04:46:30 PM
Quote from: Hilly13 on April 13, 2019, 01:00:00 PM
Quote from: koko3052 on April 13, 2019, 09:02:38 AM
After watching Rogues vid I have to disagree. As the twinky  feeds oil from tank to pump to filter to engine & the vid shows the engine running & the oil running out, then how is the engine getting oil? It has to be getting some oil from the filter adapter or you are starving your engine. Now if it is doing that, then used oil is still getting mixed with the fresh. As rigidthumper says....it just wastes oil!
If you are wasting a quart every change then why not just change your oil a quarter of the mileage sooner? That will come out to the same cost. :potstir:
You put fresh oil in the tank and start the engine, on the twin cam the oil you see exiting the hose is what would normally be returning to tank, when it runs clear you shut the engine off, works like they say, Evo was different.
I do it, most dont, it gives me a warm fuzzy feeling knowing that I got 99% of the old oil out.



The system comes with a puck that screws on in place of the oil filter you have removed.  It channels the oil internally when you run the engine later in the process.  A fitting (in the kit) with a hose barb on one end  is screwed into the pipe plug hole next to the drain plug.  A clear hose is slipped one end onto the barb fitting and the other end is placed in a fresh quart of oil.  (the drain plug and dip stick are out)  You start the engine and the oil is instantly drawn into the engine from the fresh quart and the old oil it is replacing drains from the open drain plug hole.  When the quart is empty, you stick the hose into another quart, run it down 1/2 way and shut the engine off.  Allow the pan to drain off before reinserting the drain plug then fill to the mark on the dip stick.  If you are watching the oil drain while you feed the fresh oil in, at about the quart level you will start to see streaks of clear oil appear.  By the second 1/2 quart level it should be running out crystal clear indicating a full fresh oil system change.
Well on my old 06 Dyna and the current 2016 Softail there was no bottles getting sucked up, puck on, bungs in, new oil in tank, hose on return line and into a container, on the Dyna you pulled the filler off and poked a plastic 90° fitting into the the return port with a hose on it, on the softy you pop the return pipe out of the tank and put the hose on the end of that, start bike, run till oil clear, shut it off, put it all back to normal state, top up oil and away you go, that's per the instructions in my words, perhaps your bike is different model to what I've got/had KD and the procedure is different? [attach=0]
Title: Re: Total scavenge oil change
Post by: 1workinman on April 14, 2019, 07:21:54 AM
Quote from: kd on April 13, 2019, 06:30:03 AM
It always bothered me that I was leaving about a quart (or 25%) of the old used oil in the system when I changed the oil normally.  I saw it as contaminating the new oil and reducing the value.  Also, the dollars spent and care taken on a built engine wasn't getting the full protection of the oil change that was intended.  I read about the Rogue total oil change kit and a friend said after he started using one, at the 5000 mile oil change, his oil still looked like honey, as apposed to the dark black fluid he used to drain out.  I figured if removing that last 25% made that much difference I would try it.  I found the same and now I have the kit.  It takes a couple of minutes more to run out that last bit of oil, but as you do it you are replacing it with clean oil which actually saves time.  You end up getting a 100% oil exchange (sump . pan and lines, minus cling) every time.


https://roguechopper.com/
KD that is what you use now . I might try that also . I even thought I might just machine a block of plate at work and just make me one and use the stock square cut gasket from a used oil filter to seal it with . Either way I like the idea of getting all or most of the oil out   
Title: Re: Total scavenge oil change
Post by: kd on April 14, 2019, 07:44:12 AM
Hilly, I have a TC-A engine am using the kit for that model.  The difference is in the oil pan vs oil bag but most of the components appear to be the same except the fitting and placement.

Workinman, that is what I use and have found it makes a huge difference with the color of the oil over the period of use.  IMO that is a huge statement on what the residual oil effect is and again IMO it should allow for extended service life.  I haven't sampled oil to confirm it but using the KISS method, clear, clean oil at 5000 miles means lots. 
Title: Re: Total scavenge oil change
Post by: Ohio HD on April 14, 2019, 07:58:17 AM
Quote from: kd on April 13, 2019, 04:46:30 PM
The system comes with a puck that screws on in place of the oil filter you have removed.  It channels the oil internally when you run the engine later in the process.  A fitting (in the kit) with a hose barb on one end  is screwed into the pipe plug hole next to the drain plug.  A clear hose is slipped one end onto the barb fitting and the other end is placed in a fresh quart of oil.  (the drain plug and dip stick are out)  You start the engine and the oil is instantly drawn into the engine from the fresh quart and the old oil it is replacing drains from the open drain plug hole.  When the quart is empty, you stick the hose into another quart, run it down 1/2 way and shut the engine off.  Allow the pan to drain off before reinserting the drain plug then fill to the mark on the dip stick.  If you are watching the oil drain while you feed the fresh oil in, at about the quart level you will start to see streaks of clear oil appear.  By the second 1/2 quart level it should be running out crystal clear indicating a full fresh oil system change.

I want to give this a try, I ordered one just now. I guess my plan will be to use a low priced oil to be the washout quart of oil. Then use the oil type and weight on the second quart that will be used for the oil change. In my case Redline. Too expensive to use as a donor quart.
Title: Re: Total scavenge oil change
Post by: kd on April 14, 2019, 08:16:24 AM
Quote from: Ohio HD on April 14, 2019, 07:58:17 AM
Quote from: kd on April 13, 2019, 04:46:30 PM
The system comes with a puck that screws on in place of the oil filter you have removed.  It channels the oil internally when you run the engine later in the process.  A fitting (in the kit) with a hose barb on one end  is screwed into the pipe plug hole next to the drain plug.  A clear hose is slipped one end onto the barb fitting and the other end is placed in a fresh quart of oil.  (the drain plug and dip stick are out)  You start the engine and the oil is instantly drawn into the engine from the fresh quart and the old oil it is replacing drains from the open drain plug hole.  When the quart is empty, you stick the hose into another quart, run it down 1/2 way and shut the engine off.  Allow the pan to drain off before reinserting the drain plug then fill to the mark on the dip stick.  If you are watching the oil drain while you feed the fresh oil in, at about the quart level you will start to see streaks of clear oil appear.  By the second 1/2 quart level it should be running out crystal clear indicating a full fresh oil system change.

I want to give this a try, I ordered one just now. I guess my plan will be to use a low priced oil to be the washout quart of oil. Then use the oil type and weight on the second quart that will be used for the oil change. In my case Redline. Too expensive to use as a donor quart.



Brian, the fresh oil just pushes the old oil out by occupying the space it is left in when you drain it.  The fresh oil remains in the galleries etc  and you simply top it up.  It doesn't actually take more oil to fill in the end.  Having said that, I think a portion of the last 1/2 quart is just pushing out the residue caught the tank as it usually looks clear with a thin strand of dark oil trace flowing with it.  I have decided for the cost of that last 1/2 quart it feeds my OCD concerns and I do it any way.   :teeth:  I have been using 10/60 Liquimoly that I stocked up on (2 - 4 jug cases) at $35 per 5 liter jug (free shipping) so the cost to me is minimal ($3.50).
Title: Re: Total scavenge oil change
Post by: Ohio HD on April 14, 2019, 08:20:43 AM
I guess I was looking along the method you mentioned, using a complete quart, then a second quart to start again. If the 2nd quart is pulled in say half as you mentioned. It should relive the cases of the balance of the donor quart. Guess I will need to measure what comes out first to get an idea if it's feasible or not.
Title: Re: Total scavenge oil change
Post by: Paniolo on April 14, 2019, 08:28:12 AM
So looking at the video on the web link, it didn't show the flushing quart hooked up to the fitting next to the drain hole and getting pumped IN. And he didn't explain it the way he did. All it showed was the exit hose dumping the old oil OUT. It gave me the impression that all it was doing was pumping oil out, and not replenishing it.

I understand now. I like this. I'll wait for others to report their success before deciding on making a purchase.
Title: Re: Total scavenge oil change
Post by: kd on April 14, 2019, 08:35:45 AM
As long as you remember there is no oil lost (with the exception of the clear oil you see draining out signalling the end of the process) I think it will be obvious to you how it works.  The cool oil from the fresh quart that you feed in, easily moves the thinner hot (ish) oil out and replaces it.  The hot oil has less cling and actually seems to evacuate quite well.   It will be hard to read the dipstick for a long time after your oil change when you get that last quart or so out of there.   When you start the engine to begin the process you will notice the oil light goes out immediately and the oil pressure gauge pops up like it normally would every day. 
Title: Re: Total scavenge oil change
Post by: kd on April 14, 2019, 08:40:11 AM
Quote from: Paniolo on April 14, 2019, 08:28:12 AM
So looking at the video on the web link, it didn't show the flushing quart hooked up to the fitting next to the drain hole and getting pumped IN. And he didn't explain it the way he did. All it showed was the exit hose dumping the old oil OUT. It gave me the impression that all it was doing was pumping oil out, and not replenishing it.

I understand now. I like this. I'll wait for others to report their success before deciding on making a purchase.


The thing to remember here is there are 3 versions of the tool.  There are A & B TC engines and Evo engines.  I have the Evo and A engine versions but don't have a B engine so don't need it.  All 3 engines have differences in oil delivery so the procedure will vary between them.
Title: Re: Total scavenge oil change
Post by: Paniolo on April 14, 2019, 08:59:07 AM
Quote from: kd on April 14, 2019, 08:40:11 AM
The thing to remember here is there are 3 versions of the tool.  There are A & B TC engines and Evo engines.  I have the Evo and A engine versions but don't have a B engine so don't need it.  All 3 engines have differences in oil delivery so the procedure will vary between them.

Mines a TCA too. I wonder what kind of fitting that is for the oil pan, size and thread pitch. Seems like it could easily be found at a good hardware store or on-line.
Title: Re: Total scavenge oil change
Post by: PoorUB on April 14, 2019, 09:09:58 AM
Quote from: Paniolo on April 14, 2019, 08:59:07 AM
Quote from: kd on April 14, 2019, 08:40:11 AM
The thing to remember here is there are 3 versions of the tool.  There are A & B TC engines and Evo engines.  I have the Evo and A engine versions but don't have a B engine so don't need it.  All 3 engines have differences in oil delivery so the procedure will vary between them.

Mines a TCA too. I wonder what kind of fitting that is for the oil pan, size and thread pitch. Seems like it could easily be found at a good hardware store or on-line.

If you look at a TCA oil pan there is an oil passage drilled behind the pipe plug. The passage is drilled horizontally to the rear of the bike, into the oil pan itself. It meets another passage the goes up into the transmission case, then on the the engine. You need a fitting to block off  the oil passage in the oil pan. That is why that fitting is long, with a slot in the side. The end of the fitting blocks off the oil pan, and the slot allows oil to flow up the oil passage to the engine. You are not going to find a fitting at a hardware store!
Title: Re: Total scavenge oil change
Post by: Paniolo on April 14, 2019, 09:19:18 AM
Quote from: PoorUB on April 14, 2019, 09:09:58 AM
If you look at a TCA oil pan there is an oil passage drilled behind the pipe plug. The passage is drilled horizontally to the rear of the bike, into the oil pan itself. It meets another passage the goes up into the transmission case, then on the the engine. You need a fitting to block off  the oil passage in the oil pan. That is why that fitting is long, with a slot in the side. The end of the fitting blocks off the oil pan, and the slot allows oil to flow up the oil passage to the engine. You are not going to find a fitting at a hardware store!

Got it, thanks.
Title: Re: Total scavenge oil change
Post by: Paniolo on April 14, 2019, 09:27:12 AM
Quote from: PoorUB on April 14, 2019, 09:09:58 AM
Quote from: Paniolo on April 14, 2019, 08:59:07 AM

If you look at a TCA oil pan there is an oil passage drilled behind the pipe plug. The passage is drilled horizontally to the rear of the bike, into the oil pan itself. It meets another passage the goes up into the transmission case, then on the the engine. You need a fitting to block off  the oil passage in the oil pan. That is why that fitting is long, with a slot in the side. The end of the fitting blocks off the oil pan, and the slot allows oil to flow up the oil passage to the engine. You are not going to find a fitting at a hardware store!

So looking at the attached diagram, the fitting replaces item 20. Is that right?
Title: Re: Total scavenge oil change
Post by: PoorUB on April 14, 2019, 10:44:10 AM
Yep!
You can also see the passage in the pan coming out the top, right above the hole for the plug.
Title: Re: Total scavenge oil change
Post by: koko3052 on April 14, 2019, 11:31:30 AM
"So looking at the video on the web link, it didn't show the flushing quart hooked up to the fitting next to the drain hole and getting pumped IN. And he didn't explain it the way he did. All it showed was the exit hose dumping the old oil OUT. It gave me the impression that all it was doing was pumping oil out, and not replenishing it."

That is exactly what I saw & it wasn't very heart warming. If it is indeed like kd explained then I may see it doing some good.
I run a TC B & if it is like Hilly13 explained then that is a deal breaker for sure. I have never just been able to "pop" the return line off the tank. It is always a fight with the exhaust too.
Title: Re: Total scavenge oil change
Post by: kd on April 14, 2019, 01:19:14 PM
I stick the clear line into the quart and it draws it down easily and quickly.  It's tough to get the heel without pulling air in so I leave it and start on a new quart.  I shut the engine off and restart to keep the fluid going in as a solid stream.

Here's the instructions of the post works
Title: Re: Total scavenge oil change
Post by: Norton Commando on April 14, 2019, 01:27:03 PM
Quote from: kd on April 13, 2019, 06:30:03 AM
It always bothered me that I was leaving about a quart (or 25%) of the old used oil in the system when I changed the oil normally. 

That seems like an awful lot of oil hanging around in the engine oil galleries. If the oil galleries and lines were 1/4" ID and 10 feet long, their total volume would be a whopping 3.3 fluid ounces. So where is the remaining 28.7 ounces of "used" oil hiding?

Jason
Title: Re: Total scavenge oil change
Post by: kd on April 14, 2019, 02:08:48 PM
Sump, oil pan, oil lines, cooler, filter housing, cling and pooling.  I know it sounds like a lot but on an oil change most use 3 1/2 quarts wet fill.  I believe the original dry fill is +4 and the manual says 3.5 on an oil change.  You have to recognize that some galleries may have been flushed and others are still discharging filthy dirty oil.  Near the end of the flush you can start to see streaks of old and new oil draining out of the pan plug.
Title: Re: Total scavenge oil change
Post by: Ohio HD on April 14, 2019, 02:54:30 PM
Quote from: kd on April 14, 2019, 02:08:48 PM
Sump, oil pan, oil lines, cooler, filter housing, cling and pooling.  I know it sounds like a lot but on an oil change most use 3 1/2 quarts wet fill.  I believe the original dry fill is +4 and the manual says 3.5 on an oil change.  You have to recognize that some galleries may have been flushed and others are still discharging filthy dirty oil.  Near the end of the flush you can start to see streaks of old and new oil draining out of the pan plug.

:up:  Fresh motors in touring bikes with EVERYTHING drained take 4 quarts. Changes after that, oil system is wet, take 3-1/2 quarts.
Title: Re: Total scavenge oil change
Post by: Deye76 on April 14, 2019, 04:38:33 PM
Try to stay out of oil threads, but always looking to offer a another perspective. How many motors have gone near or at 100,000 miles without this? 4 in my riding career, the others I didn't keep that long. I've done several samples sent in to Blackstone, never a analysis that came back with concern. Not even my recent Ultima 113" failure and repair from the manufacturer. With all the metal in that motor from the oil pump failure, and the parts that Ultima replaced that I thought wasn't enough, the Blackstone report that came back showed nothing alarming. The motor has used no oil, and I'll be sending another sample in soon. I'm not expecting any bad news. The facts are, folks who practice good hygiene when building a motor, and keep their oil and filters (air included) changed at established intervals can rest assured that a few ounces of old oil won't overcome a fresh filter and clean oil. Ultima has a plug in the crankcase belly that is sturdy enough to be pulled every oil change to drain the sump. If building a TC from the ground up I would do something to the plug hole that would strengthen it so it could be pulled with out worry of stripping the threads.
Title: Re: Total scavenge oil change
Post by: Ohio HD on April 14, 2019, 04:41:47 PM
John, I don't think it's a problem at all. But if I can easily have a 99% fresh oil change, why not?
Title: Re: Total scavenge oil change
Post by: 98fxstc on April 14, 2019, 05:07:33 PM
Quote from: Ohio HD on April 14, 2019, 04:41:47 PM
John, I don't think it's a problem at all. But if I can easily have a 99% fresh oil change, why not?

:up:
Title: Re: Total scavenge oil change
Post by: kd on April 14, 2019, 05:13:50 PM
 :agree:   Call it OCD if you like but if there's a way to do a better job, I'm in.  :teeth:  I kinda like the warm fuzzy feeling.  Your oil is so clean that it's amazing how long it takes before you can easily read your oil level on the stick when you get such a fresh start. I suspect with Blackstone reports the interval recommendation would also be extended enough to make it worthwhile.
Title: Re: Total scavenge oil change
Post by: Barrett on April 14, 2019, 05:44:04 PM
I'm sold on this. I plan on adding one to my tool box.
I'll probably break something else before dirty oil hurts anything but I'll still feel better about getting all of it out on a change..
Title: Re: Total scavenge oil change
Post by: Ohio HD on April 14, 2019, 05:47:20 PM
I also remember when I put my 124 in the frame and fired it up. The oil was clean for a really long time. Really good ring seal, valve seal, etc. But each oil change after, the oil gets dirty faster.
Title: Re: Total scavenge oil change
Post by: Ohio HD on April 14, 2019, 05:50:12 PM
I'll add too that when I change the oil, it's on the lift, and several other things get looked at. An oil change may result in the bike being on the lift for a full day, maybe two. I run the crap out of my bikes, so I go over several things at oil change. The additional time it'll take to flush the oil means little to me.
Title: Re: Total scavenge oil change
Post by: cheech on April 14, 2019, 07:36:36 PM
So the premise of the touring kit is; The puck just closes the filter circuit, the pan fitting blocks the pan feed to the pump while simultaneously allowing the fresh oil to be drawn in from a new quart. And the dirty is discharging out of the pan with no drain  plug?
Title: Re: Total scavenge oil change
Post by: kd on April 14, 2019, 08:22:16 PM
 :up:  That's it
Title: Re: Total scavenge oil change
Post by: thumpr54 on April 14, 2019, 09:54:36 PM
I too liked the idea of replacing a higher % of my oil if I could easily. I got a scavenger and used it on my 09 Road King...worked good. When I got my 16 Road Glide and went to change the oil the first time....the adapter didn't want to go into the pipe plugged hole next to the drain plug the same as it did on the RK. It felt like the holes inside didn't line up exactly....and cut the o-ring on the adapter. I could get the threads started but it seemed it took too much forcing to go all the way in....so it never made it all the way in. The guy at Rogues was interested and sent me some new O-rings but couldn't provide any reason for my problem...so I been doing regular oil changes on it since. If I ever have the oil pan off of it I'll be checking it out....
Title: Re: Total scavenge oil change
Post by: jmorton10 on April 15, 2019, 01:22:31 AM
I've been using that scavenge kit for years just because it make me feel good.

Is it necessary, of course not.  A buddy of mine likes to pick on me about it, he thinks it's stupid & I can't really argue with his as he has a 2002 that has over 200,000 miles on it with nothing more than changing the dino oil he runs every 5000 miles.

~John
Title: Re: Total scavenge oil change
Post by: Ohio HD on April 15, 2019, 02:40:04 AM
Quote from: thumpr54 on April 14, 2019, 09:54:36 PM
I too liked the idea of replacing a higher % of my oil if I could easily. I got a scavenger and used it on my 09 Road King...worked good. When I got my 16 Road Glide and went to change the oil the first time....the adapter didn't want to go into the pipe plugged hole next to the drain plug the same as it did on the RK. It felt like the holes inside didn't line up exactly....and cut the o-ring on the adapter. I could get the threads started but it seemed it took too much forcing to go all the way in....so it never made it all the way in. The guy at Rogues was interested and sent me some new O-rings but couldn't provide any reason for my problem...so I been doing regular oil changes on it since. If I ever have the oil pan off of it I'll be checking it out....

Check with them, I think they reference this change on their website:

[attach=0]
Title: Re: Total scavenge oil change
Post by: thumpr54 on April 15, 2019, 04:48:12 AM
Thanx, PCH....guess I shoulda gone back later and checked again instead of just giving up on the idea.... :bike:
Title: Re: Total scavenge oil change
Post by: rigidthumper on April 15, 2019, 05:14:00 AM
To summarize:
Quote from: xlfan on April 13, 2019, 05:08:08 AM
Would it cause any harm to the return side of the oil pump, to run an extra quart of oil out the oil filter mount base without the oil filter?
Bad idea- wastes oil, no feed to engine.

Quote from: cheech on April 14, 2019, 07:36:36 PM
So the premise of the touring kit is; The puck just closes the filter circuit, the pan fitting blocks the pan feed to the pump while simultaneously allowing the fresh oil to be drawn in from a new quart. And the dirty is discharging out of the pan with no drain  plug?

Valid idea for those who wish to be more thorough.
Title: Re: Total scavenge oil change
Post by: Norton Commando on April 15, 2019, 07:40:59 AM
Ok, I think we're talking about half a quart or less of oil that clings to various bits in the engine and lubrication system. I like the Scavenger concept for flushing out this old oil, but I will not be installing the kit on my '12 FLHTK when changing the motor oil.

Why not? Because I have an oil temperature transducer installed in the 1/4" NPT port in the oil pan, which is where the kit calls for installing the hose barb fitting. I just don't like the idea of removing and reinstalling the transducer every oil change. But I do like the Scavenger concept and believe it is beneficial.  And if it weren't for the transducer, I would be using the kit when changing oil.   

Best,

Jason
Title: Re: Total scavenge oil change
Post by: djl on April 15, 2019, 08:32:18 AM
Have been using the Scavenger on both my early A and B motors for about 12 years.  Back then, the system was considered over kill and not necessary and it probably is overkill and unnecessary but I really like checking the oil at 3K miles and it is still looks like honey.  I usually go 5K miles between changes which is one annual change on each bike a year so the total oil change was appealing for me.  Takes a little more time but IMHO, worth it. :up:
Title: Re: Total scavenge oil change
Post by: rbabos on April 15, 2019, 10:08:02 AM
Quote from: djl on April 15, 2019, 08:32:18 AM
Have been using the Scavenger on both my early A and B motors for about 12 years.  Back then, the system was considered over kill and not necessary and it probably is overkill and unnecessary but I really like checking the oil at 3K miles and it is still looks like honey.  I usually go 5K miles between changes which is one annual change on each bike a year so the total oil change was appealing for me.  Takes a little more time but IMHO, worth it. :up:
All this cracks me up. Must get every last drop out and then use a 30 micron filter on it.  Must refrain. :hyst:
Ron
Title: Re: Total scavenge oil change
Post by: IronButt70 on April 15, 2019, 10:15:22 AM
Quote from: Norton Commando on April 15, 2019, 07:40:59 AM
Ok, I think were talking about half a quart or less of oil that clings to various bits in the engine and lubrication system. I like the Scavenger concept for flushing out this old oil, but I will not be installing the kit on my '12 FLHTK when changing the motor oil.

Why not? Because I have an oil temperature transducer installed in the 1/4" NPT port in the oil pan, which is where the kit calls for installing the hose barb fitting. I just don't like the idea of removing and reinstalling the transducer every oil change. But I do like the Scavenger concept and believe it is beneficial.  And if it weren't for the transducer, I would be using the kit when changing oil.   

Best,

Jason
You could move the transducer to one of the drilled passages where the oil filter mounts.  That's where mine is installed.
Title: Re: Total scavenge oil change
Post by: PoorUB on April 15, 2019, 10:21:41 AM
Quote from: rbabos on April 15, 2019, 10:08:02 AM
All this cracks me up. Must get every last drop out and then use a 30 micron filter on it.  Must refrain. :hyst:
Ron

The whole deal cracks me up. The oil was perfectly good the day before, but today it all has to go. If the oil is so bad it needs a flush it needed to be changed a long time ago.

Do you guys flush the oil on your cars and trucks too?

I guess I see crazier stuff, like 2,500 mile oil changes, running synthetic. Replacing spark plugs every year, with 3,000 miles on them....

Title: Re: Total scavenge oil change
Post by: Ohio HD on April 15, 2019, 11:06:13 AM
Quote from: PoorUB on April 15, 2019, 10:21:41 AM
Quote from: rbabos on April 15, 2019, 10:08:02 AM
All this cracks me up. Must get every last drop out and then use a 30 micron filter on it.  Must refrain. :hyst:
Ron

The whole deal cracks me up. The oil was perfectly good the day before, but today it all has to go. If the oil is so bad it needs a flush it needed to be changed a long time ago.

Do you guys flush the oil on your cars and trucks too?

I guess I see crazier stuff, like 2,500 mile oil changes, running synthetic. Replacing spark plugs every year, with 3,000 miles on them....

If you guys don't want to use it, then don't. Don't knock others because they wish to use it.
Title: Re: Total scavenge oil change
Post by: kd on April 15, 2019, 11:10:19 AM
Hey .... at least we're not debating dino / syn.  :teeth:   I know the old shovel and the hokey horse hair filter was used for ever too.  It probably introduced contamination from rough handling.  :crook:  The present system tips the relief valve too easy causing bypass and everyone worries about microns.   :scratch: 

I don't mind doing the flush because I know I haven't diluted the additives and those little bits I spray on my cylinder walls from the squirters have been removed.  Yup, OCD.  Harmful, not on your life.  Beneficial, you'll have a hard time convincing me that a fresh load is not as good or better than a partial fresh load.  I think there's even an argument that you can extend the service point if it's all fresh. (like an extended trip for example may not need to do an early oil change to get you home without the interruption of a service.)

Title: Re: Total scavenge oil change
Post by: PoorUB on April 15, 2019, 11:38:14 AM
Hey! If it makes you sleep better at night then go for it. I wasn't picking on anyone, even most of the gys here that use it question the need for it.

But seriously,  yesterday you were out riding your Harley,  without a care in the world. Today the old is so bad it all needs to go. I just don't understand the logic behind it.

But if it gives you a warm fuzzy feeling, knock yourself out!
Title: Re: Total scavenge oil change
Post by: Ohio HD on April 15, 2019, 11:43:15 AM
Quote from: PoorUB on April 15, 2019, 11:38:14 AM
Hey! If it makes you sleep better at night then go for it. I wasn't picking on anyone, even most of the gys here that use it question the need for it.

But seriously,  yesterday you were out riding your Harley,  without a care in the world. Today the old is so bad it all needs to go. I just don't understand the logic behind it.

But if it gives you a warm fuzzy feeling, knock yourself out!

Has nothing to do with that. I still have no care in the world. If I wish to use something, what does it matter to you? You're entitled to your thoughts, we just don't need to hear all of them. Especially when they're not constructive.
Title: Re: Total scavenge oil change
Post by: djl on April 15, 2019, 01:32:32 PM
It cracks me up knowing that how someone changes oil cracks someone else up.:doh: When it's time to change oil why not change all the oil? :idunno: I guess it's like all the other choices we make; different strokes. :wink:
Title: Re: Total scavenge oil change
Post by: 98fxstc on April 15, 2019, 03:04:16 PM
My service manual schedules engine oil changes at 5000 miles
I don't believe that has changed for some considerable time even though we are using better oils (or some of us are)
The synthetic oils are capable of going for much longer and still retaining the required properties for lubrication and cooling
One big reason to not extend the service interval is that the oil change also achieves the removal of contaminants and fine metal particles which could damage the engine
How much would it take to clog up a lifter ? And consider the consequences  :dgust:
Why leave crap behind in the engine if you can avoid it ?

There are those who don't care or can't be bothered to do things the best way
Each to his own
Most who denigrate the more complete procedures have no appreciation of performance and maintenance and are still running stock bikes and drinking the MoCo koolaid.
Title: Re: Total scavenge oil change
Post by: 1workinman on April 15, 2019, 07:08:47 PM
Quote from: djl on April 15, 2019, 01:32:32 PM
It cracks me up knowing that how someone changes oil cracks someone else up.:doh: When it's time to change oil why not change all the oil? :idunno: I guess it's like all the other choices we make; different strokes. :wink:
, I would like to change all of the oil also . I don't know if it will last any longer doing that but I doubt it will hurt lol 
Title: Re: Total scavenge oil change
Post by: Paniolo on April 15, 2019, 07:33:38 PM
And now the next series of questions,....

Does anybody know of a shop that does oil changes this way?
Would any of you consider bringing the gizmo to a shop and asking them to change the oil that way?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Total scavenge oil change
Post by: jls 64 on April 15, 2019, 07:38:00 PM
 :agree:
I would have a performance Harley any day.