What are yo guys seeing as a pipe which can carry beyond 150hp and still maintain a decent torque curve, assuming the rest of the parts can go there at 126"
Burns Stainless has the pipe for that application.
Thanks, have you seen any dynos with that pipe?
yes...bunches. It's the pipe I run.
Durwood just posted one not too long ago in the dyno section on a M8 143 he did. Crazy power.
jbroski has quite a few dyno sheets in there with a Burns pipe.
Billet cat with BB baffle.
Quote from: No Cents on September 13, 2020, 04:44:25 AM
yes...bunches. It's the pipe I run.
Durwood just posted one not too long ago in the dyno section on a M8 143 he did. Crazy power.
jbroski has quite a few dyno sheets in there with a Burns pipe.
:agree: As No Cents said, they have a proven performance history. I also use one and even though not over 150 square it is on the cusp. Here's a graph with a comparison to another top performing exhaust. If you think you need it, you can get that left side up by installing a stinger i n the end of the megaphone. Coincidentally, the stinger takes a little of the bark out making it more friendly for the street. They are also WAY lighter than any exhaust system I have held.
https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,99409.0.html
https://burnsstainless.com/collections/harley-nhb
So do you think that because the pipe worked well on a twin cam once changed to fit the M8 it would also be a winner? I don't.
Customer I am helping has a pipe that slips right off the tongue as top tier and it is killing a big build, the torque curve and ease of tuning to be specific, it horsepowers fine. I know how to fix it but I am not going to get into pipe building just looking for a bolt-on and go. I did suggest the D&D but still was looking for options.
Ray, take a look back at the influence of the end cap mods you did. It is my belief that this M8 needs similar but different attention to the pipe design. When they get big, they want exhaust tuning different than the bigger is better and long is great philosophy used with the twin cam. Four valve heads, a less than great exhaust port, high compression, cam timing typically used are all an influence on what is happening during the overlap period. :fish:
Quote from: HD Street Performance on September 12, 2020, 03:54:58 PM
Thanks, have you seen any dynos with that pipe?
Might want to check out Fuel Moto facebook pg, iirc they used a Burns Stainless on their 143" M8 RK/chart & do offer a pipe FS on website
Also they just about to offer a stainless 2-1 after testing a 131 tweaked (170hp their dyno chart) motor posted 3d ago
Am guessing this for a bagger
Seen some curious results on M8's check out Alpha Performance Engines on Facebook lots of charts based in Oz
Thanks I will give it a look.
Don, I got the dimensions from Ray as a base point and reproduced a variant of his end cap. I refined the machining on the receiving end to improve the pick-up and flow and made it a 2 piece assembly to accommodate possible later C&C reproduction. I call it more of a stinger. It seems to work as well as I hoped and expect it could be easily copied by C&C program. The qualifier here is that with COVID restrictions, (and where I live) I can't access my (or any other decent) tuner while the US border is closed and therefore can't confirm the parameters I believe are there. I noticed some time ago that Jamie picked up the Burns pipe and advertised it for sale at Fuel Moto. I saw that as another acceptance by someone that sells quality tested performance products.
No doubt there is a place for everything and you can modify something to make it better or fit your purpose. That's what Ray was doing with the end cap idea and where I was going by extending that success to make the pipe tune-able and more street friendly. The thing you have to understand about the Burns pipe, especially with the 3" baffle (which I expect you will need) is that it will hurt your ears when you get on it and attract more attention than anyone needs. If this is a track oriented effort then disregard.
This is a clubber bike. I get it. My point was not to discredit any manufacturer or add credit to another. That stinger as you call it is a reflector not so much of a restrictor as many view it. Changing the point where it is in relation to the port can influence the torque curve. This could add some versatility to what this device could offer for those that like to tinker. Having a dyno to work with is important though. How far are you from Vancouver Island?
Looked at Alpha Engines page, good stuff, thanks.
George Bryce @ Star Racing built a 133" M8 Road King and ran the Burns Stainless pipe on it.
It made 180hp/165tq and ran in the low 10's @ 131 mph in the 1/4 mile.
Thats getting it on!
Stinger? Are you guys talking Brian's muffler that fits in the end of the guppy style muffler?
Quote from: jrhd_1775 on September 14, 2020, 06:13:11 AM
Stinger? Are you guys talking Brian's muffler that fits in the end of the guppy style muffler?
The device (as I understand) has been around for some time. The Guppy muffler (if you want to call it that) is one place it has been used. The straight gut larger baffles are not street friendly (noise wise) and the left side street performance also usually suffers. A few years ago, HTT member No Cents built his own pipe using Burns components and step lengths from their computer program. He had his bike tuned and subsequently set out to take the edge off the loud 3" baffle in the Burns megaphone muffler. He made a version of what I believe you are describing to insert in his exhaust and put it back on one of the HTT member's dyno. On the dyno. they gradually opened up (drilled out) the fixture until the torque picked up (significantly) and the top end performance was not affected. A side benefit was reduced noise volume. The term used then was an "end cap". I took the "end cap" dimensions (because I have a Burns exhaust too) and redesigned it to flow even more. I then added a rear system which allows me to tune it by mounting a 4" SuperTrapp discs system and open or closed end cap plates. I was the one that called it a "stinger" to distinguish the fact it was different from the "end cap" No Cents made but also because it now resembles a hybrid spark arrestor device fitted in the end of the muffler. Another member here recently used the term "reflector" to describe the device as it really doesn't reduce the flow. It modifies the exhaust reflection in the pipe which in turn changes the performance response characteristics of the whole exhaust system.
Has anyone tried a Thunderheader X 2 into 1 on the M8?
My tuner had several of these made for him by Brian Truesdale. I believe No Cents used part of the design. There is a sheet from Mike King posted that shows the results.
Quote from: jrhd_1775 on September 14, 2020, 08:59:59 AM
My tuner had several of these made for him by Brian Truesdale. I believe No Cents used part of the design. There is a sheet from Mike King posted that shows the results.
Interesting. :up: That's the first time I have seen the full assembly other than the end piece. That is essentially what I have done by mating the machined inner end piece to the existing 3" baffle in the Burns megaphone. The difference is my version is designed to accept the SuperTrapp discs, heat deflector and end cap on the rear end of the aluminum fixture.
Quote from: HD Street Performance on September 14, 2020, 07:50:23 AM
Has anyone tried a Thunderheader X 2 into 1 on the M8?
Steve @ GMR has i believe
if you follow Steve @ GMR on Facebook he actually post on the Thunderheader today.
He definitely doesn't like them. The fit and quality is sub par to what he likes.
Check out RB Racing. Please. The best performance exhaust, and a very educational website.
Gardner Racing Concepts has a FB post. M8 126 inch. Thunderheader X series with 180 hp. 157 Tq.
180hp 126 is 1.43hp/ci and they claimed it was on 93pump gas
How did they get ahold of God to do their headwork? I have a few questions for him myself...
Anyways, whatever you go with please share. Will a 1-3/4" header make it to 150?
It's got a Star racing cam in it, maybe GB did the heads too.
I know a 1.75 ID pipe will make it past 150 with a hair dryer in the intake (ProCharger), but I'm not sure it will support 150+ naturally asperated.
Quote from: HD Street Performance on September 10, 2020, 05:20:43 PM
What are yo guys seeing as a pipe which can carry beyond 150hp and still maintain a decent torque curve, assuming the rest of the parts can go there at 126"
Don,
I used the Billet Cat with the Vortex Baffle on my 126" making 160HP. It has a great torgue curve.
We have a bike here locally that Jimmy built, 126" with head work, and it had a Bassani Road Rage. It had reversion bad in the midrange, big dip. Swapped to the Billet Cat Vortex (louvered) baffle and reversion is gone, torque curve high and flat as Kansas, much lower VEs. Now to the air filter. He has one of those little right angle air filters, it needs to go. Thinking about the SE Heavy Breather Extreme. It has the SE 84 throttle body.
Quote from: HD Street Performance on September 18, 2020, 06:27:30 PM
We have a bike here locally that Jimmy built, 126" with head work, and it had a Bassani Road Rage. It had reversion bad in the midrange, big dip. Swapped to the Billet Cat Vortex (louvered) baffle and reversion is gone, torque curve high and flat as Kansas, much lower VEs. Now to the air filter. He has one of those little right angle air filters, it needs to go. Thinking about the SE Heavy Breather Extreme. It has the SE 84 throttle body.
I have heard that the CVO style Heavy Breather can hardly flow enough air for a 117 let alone a well built 126. Heavy Breather Extreme would be a great choice.
Don,
I'm running the heavy breather extreme on mine. It actually gives more leg room than the factory right angle heavy breather on the CVO, a nice bonus. I'm at 163 hp and 167 torque. The factory heavy breather on the M8 does not flow enough.
So what is the "Go To" pipe? I am thinking about buying an M8 and doing a 131" and at first thought I was thinking of the Thunderheader. I looked at the Burns pipe but they are butt ugly...
A friend is running a 124", dyno'd nice with 135 hp, 151 tq, running an FM Road and Track 2/1, darn impressive, but was told it would be even better if he used the D&D Billet cat. This came from both the tuner and Wes at CycleRama, so seems pretty reliable info.
He's pretty happy with the set up he has for now, can barely keep the front tire down coming hard out of corners.
Quote from: jrhd_1775 on September 14, 2020, 08:59:59 AM
My tuner had several of these made for him by Brian Truesdale. I believe No Cents used part of the design. There is a sheet from Mike King posted that shows the results.
C&S Speed shop? I just spoke with Brian about a baffle. Such a nice guy, I will probably go that route.
Quote from: Hossamania on November 01, 2020, 07:06:38 AM
A friend is running a 124", dyno'd nice with 135 hp, 151 tq, running an FM Road and Track 2/1, darn impressive, but was told it would be even better if he used the D&D Billet cat. This came from both the tuner and Wes at CycleRama, so seems pretty reliable info.
He's pretty happy with the set up he has for now, can barely keep the front tire down coming hard out of corners.
I have the same engine/exhaust combo and the same results... 134.74HP @5800rpm and 151.20 TQ @3790 rpm...
FuelMoto originally suggested I use a different pipe, but since I had recently purchased the FM R&T 2-1, they decided to try tuning with it first, and got better than anticipated results...
They're current Jackpot RTX 2-1 is a freer flowing exhaust than the R&T and the new version of the one they wanted me to use. It's probably a good choice for a bigger displacement engine..