Sumping issues solved

[evostroker]

I tapped out!!!! My 2018 114 started running hot and losing power after a good run on the highway. It was a fairly cool day, its never done that before. Traded it in on a Ducati. I feel kind of bad, but its someone else's problem now

[les]

I friend pointed me to a video the GMR put out about some M8 piston jets coming loose.  I learned that the M8 jets are different than the twin cam because they use gaskets instead of o-rings.  Apparently, the gaskets can crush down after a while and make the jets loose.  If I recall, GMR said that S&S makes some better gaskets for the M8 jets.

[Vision]

Yes,  that’s been a problem for some.  I had them check the torque on the Oilers when my bike sumped and was told the torque was to spec.  Some have mentioned that it has something to do with the glue on the factory oiler gaskets, which has prompted some to remove the factory gaskets, clean any residue away and re-install the oilers with cosmetic gaskets, which do not have any glue on them.   Had I known that cosmetic was making gaskets that were less trouble prone at the time,  I would have had them replaced.  First time I’m hearing of S&S making gaskets for the oilers too.  All good stuff for folks to know who’ve either dealt with or will deal with a sumping M8.

[les]

Yes,  that's been a problem for some.  I had them check the torque on the Oilers when my bike sumped and was told the torque was to spec.  Some have mentioned that it has something to do with the glue on the factory oilerer gaskets, which has prompted some to remove the factory gaskets, clean any residue away and re-install the oilers with cosmetic gaskets, which do not have any glue on them.   Had I known that cosmetic was making gaskets that were less trouble prone at the time,  I would have had them replaced.  First time I'm hearing of S&S making gaskets for the oilers too.  All good stuff for folks to know who've either dealt with or will deal with a sumping M8.

Thanks for the education about the glue.  Also, maybe the S&S gaskets are really Cometic.

[Vision]

Glad to be of help!

[Durwood]

I started this thread last September when I thought the seal was the solution. I just pulled the crank position sensor on my 124" build and got about 7oz out. All of the prior checks on my previous 117" with the Harley cover with the seal resulted in 1 oz or less. I'm not seeing full blown sumping issues but 7oz of oil sloshing around in the lower end can't be helping performance! I wonder if anyone with the Fueling pump has checked after prolonged high rpm runs?  I also have installed a vent on the oil fill....

Big T you might try running your oil level a quart low.

That's what I did after mine sumped 2 quarts and now I am getting 4.5 oz from the sump plug, not the CPS.

Besides the piston oilers being loose and leaking on some bikes, I honestly believe that Harley's suggested oil level is too much and the main cause of the sumping M8's. JMO

[attach=0]

[Prostock]

2018 built 124, stock updated oil pump, measured from sump plug

[metaliser]

I started this thread last September when I thought the seal was the solution. I just pulled the crank position sensor on my 124" build and got about 7oz out. All of the prior checks on my previous 117" with the Harley cover with the seal resulted in 1 oz or less. I'm not seeing full blown sumping issues but 7oz of oil sloshing around in the lower end can't be helping performance! I wonder if anyone with the Fueling pump has checked after prolonged high rpm runs?  I also have installed a vent on the oil fill....

Big T you might try running your oil level a quart low.

That's what I did after mine sumped 2 quarts and now I am getting 4.5 oz from the sump plug, not the CPS.

Besides the piston oilers being loose and leaking on some bikes, I honestly believe that Harley's suggested oil level is too much and the main cause of the sumping M8's. JMO

[attach=0,msg1298030]

So your running basically the same amount in your M8 as you did in a Twin Cam now, correct ?

[Durwood]

I started this thread last September when I thought the seal was the solution. I just pulled the crank position sensor on my 124" build and got about 7oz out. All of the prior checks on my previous 117" with the Harley cover with the seal resulted in 1 oz or less. I'm not seeing full blown sumping issues but 7oz of oil sloshing around in the lower end can't be helping performance! I wonder if anyone with the Fueling pump has checked after prolonged high rpm runs?  I also have installed a vent on the oil fill....

Big T you might try running your oil level a quart low.

That's what I did after mine sumped 2 quarts and now I am getting 4.5 oz from the sump plug, not the CPS.

Besides the piston oilers being loose and leaking on some bikes, I honestly believe that Harley's suggested oil level is too much and the main cause of the sumping M8's. JMO

[attach=0,msg1298030]

So your running basically the same amount in your M8 as you did in a Twin Cam now, correct ?

Yes, and I can't make it sump.

[metaliser]

I started this thread last September when I thought the seal was the solution. I just pulled the crank position sensor on my 124" build and got about 7oz out. All of the prior checks on my previous 117" with the Harley cover with the seal resulted in 1 oz or less. I'm not seeing full blown sumping issues but 7oz of oil sloshing around in the lower end can't be helping performance! I wonder if anyone with the Fueling pump has checked after prolonged high rpm runs?  I also have installed a vent on the oil fill....

Big T you might try running your oil level a quart low.

That's what I did after mine sumped 2 quarts and now I am getting 4.5 oz from the sump plug, not the CPS.

Besides the piston oilers being loose and leaking on some bikes, I honestly believe that Harley's suggested oil level is too much and the main cause of the sumping M8's. JMO

[attach=0,msg1298030]

So your running basically the same amount in your M8 as you did in a Twin Cam now, correct ?

Yes, and I can't make it sump.

Makes sense then, I also think thats the reason for so much blow-by into the breather on these things.

[Durwood]

You are correct. IMO

[joe_lyons]

Tc vs m8.

[Prostock]

  Perfect Example

[BigT]

Does an M8 have the same size oil pan as a Twincam?

[Durwood]

Does an M8 have the same size oil pan as a Twincam?

As far as I can tell without pulling it, yes.

[BigT]

I just checked...different oil pans from a Twin Cam and M8. Funny thing is the Twin Cam one looks deeper than the M8 one.

[Durwood]

I just checked...different oil pans from a Twin Cam and M8. Funny thing is the Twin Cam one looks deeper than the M8 one.

I knew they were different part numbers because of the relocation of the trans drain but they look similar in size was what I meant.

[RoadGlideRob]

I started this thread last September when I thought the seal was the solution. I just pulled the crank position sensor on my 124" build and got about 7oz out. All of the prior checks on my previous 117" with the Harley cover with the seal resulted in 1 oz or less. I'm not seeing full blown sumping issues but 7oz of oil sloshing around in the lower end can't be helping performance! I wonder if anyone with the Fueling pump has checked after prolonged high rpm runs?  I also have installed a vent on the oil fill....

Big T you might try running your oil level a quart low.

That's what I did after mine sumped 2 quarts and now I am getting 4.5 oz from the sump plug, not the CPS.

Besides the piston oilers being loose and leaking on some bikes, I honestly believe that Harley's suggested oil level is too much and the main cause of the sumping M8's. JMO

[attach=0,msg1298030]

So your running basically the same amount in your M8 as you did in a Twin Cam now, correct ?

Yes, and I can't make it sump.

I've always ran mike bikes on the low side, even twin cams to help with blow by. I've been running my M8 a quart low all along and haven't had any issues. Only 5k miles on it though

[FloridaJim5]

I've been following this thread closely.   Help me out a little here...how does running the oil level 1 qt low stop it from sumping? 

Just trying to learn here....  Thanks

[Hossamania]

A friend had his bike in getting tuned, they talked about a few of the issues with the M8s including sumping, and the tech took my friend over to three different bikes with motors torn down due to sumping, all three caused by failed piston oilers.

[Fat11Lo]

A friend had his bike in getting tuned, they talked about a few of the issues with the M8s including sumping, and the tech took my friend over to three different bikes with motors torn down due to sumping, all three caused by failed piston oilers.

I've been following this thread closely.   Help me out a little here...how does running the oil level 1 qt low stop it from sumping? 

Just trying to learn here....  Thanks

I've been following this closely too, one thing to remember is there are several issues out there that result in sumping. Some have been the piston oilers loose and leaking, in this case it's an internal leak flooding the crank case which nothing will help cure the issue until the gasket is replaced and and the leak is stopped. Some of these M8's are sumping due to breathing issues and running them a quart low seems to help by giving a little bit more air space to help it breathe. At least this is the way I'm understanding things right now but that is subject to change

[Durwood]

I've been following this thread closely.   Help me out a little here...how does running the oil level 1 qt low stop it from sumping? 

Just trying to learn here....  Thanks

I have built and tuned several 124" M8's and all but one sumped during tuning. What I noticed is that once they did, I would pull the dip stick to make sure they had oil and complete the tune without sumping again.

That's when I deliberately set mine at 3.5 qts and ran it like Hoss running away from a Road Glide fairing and it has not sumped. I have tried repeatedly and all is well.

[rbabos]

A friend had his bike in getting tuned, they talked about a few of the issues with the M8s including sumping, and the tech took my friend over to three different bikes with motors torn down due to sumping, all three caused by failed piston oilers.

Begs the question. What kind of moron would use gaskets in an o-ring age especially in this application? Talk about a step backward in sealing technology.
Ron

[kd]

A friend had his bike in getting tuned, they talked about a few of the issues with the M8s including sumping, and the tech took my friend over to three different bikes with motors torn down due to sumping, all three caused by failed piston oilers.

Begs the question. What kind of moron would use gaskets in an o-ring age especially in this application? Talk about a step backward in sealing technology.
Ron

One less machining proce$$ in making the part?

[rbabos]

A friend had his bike in getting tuned, they talked about a few of the issues with the M8s including sumping, and the tech took my friend over to three different bikes with motors torn down due to sumping, all three caused by failed piston oilers.

Begs the question. What kind of moron would use gaskets in an o-ring age especially in this application? Talk about a step backward in sealing technology.
Ron

One less machining proce$$ in making the part?

I'm sure the 1/4 cent the saved will make up for all the warranty claims. Like I said, a moronic move on their part.
Ron