It's been 10 years since the last time I tore my panhead down to the frame and gave everything a good look. What started out earlier this week as a quick clean up, snowballed into a teardown. 😂
So the first thing I uncovered was a rear brake backing plate that was broken at the pivot pin mounting point. That would have been bad news if it had come loose.
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The pivot pin was twisting so much it bent the brake shoes.
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Ran to Carson City and picked up a new backing plate from Paughco on Friday. It's nice having them close to home. They gave me a 20% discount and paid my NV state sales tax. Great place to do business.
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- to be continued -
Next thing I discovered was a frayed clutch cable. This one is frayed at the transmission end. They usually start fraying at the lever end. Tis was buried under the oil tank and I probably wouldn't have seen it until it broke.
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Next item on the verge of failing is the generator. Check out the brushes. You can't use them much past this point. This is a Cycle Electric DVG-5000 generator. I've been running it 20 years and 160k+ miles without a hiccup. Glad I found it rather than my generator just stopping charging. Easy fix.
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I started removing the clutch hub and it is stuck fast to the transmission input shaft. This is the first time I've gone 0 years without removing it. I've been soaking it in penetrating oil via the key slot for a couple days. I'll probably give it a week of that and try again.
Cleaned up the clutch (Primo Pro Clutch) and deglazed the steels.
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That's all to report so far.
Having moved from Arizona to the Reno/Tahoe area, it's nice having an off season to do this work. In Arizona the off season is summer and the garage is 105F. :hyst:
Boy they sure need a little TLC when you ride them. All in all it's not bad so far for the length of time and miles.
If the penetrating oil doesn't work, I used to strip the clutch hub of all parts, put the puller on under pressure, and heat the hub with MAP gas. They generally pop right off with a little heat.
I might have to try the heat trick. My clutch shell is made of polyurethane so I have to be cautious. Can't remove the clutch shell from the clutch hub with it installed on the transmission. These Primo Pro Clutches are a lot different than the OEM setup.
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I see, yes I was assuming an OEM setup. Had I looked at the clutch plates you had posted.... :teeth:
QuoteSo the first thing I uncovered was a rear brake backing plate that was broken at the pivot pin mounting point.
is the replacement beefy enough in that area or need a doubler before you install?
I was missing this "washer" previously. I had a regular washer but this OEM piece is much larger and thicker. It will distribute the load over a larger area. To be fair, I used that old backing plate for 20 years and put over 160k miles on it. I'd say it held up pretty well despite having the incorrect washer.
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I use a stock clutch hub puller, a couple of extension nuts and two 5/16-18 X 2" bolts topped with washers to remove my Pro Clutch. I had to elongate two of the holes in the puller plate for proper alignment. Once you get these fastened to two opposing studs on the PC hub and have some tension between the hub and the output shaft, tap the hex end of the puller with a ballpein and the assembly should pop right off. This has worked for me many, many times. IMG_0574.jpg
:chop:
good post----thanks
Quote from: billbuilds on November 20, 2023, 03:46:25 AMI use a stock clutch hub puller, a couple of extension nuts and two 5/16-18 X 2" bolts topped with washers to remove my Pro Clutch. I had to elongate two of the holes in the puller plate for proper alignment. Once you get these fastened to two opposing studs on the PC hub and have some tension between the hub and the output shaft, tap the hex end of the puller with a ballpein and the assembly should pop right off. This has worked for me many, many times. IMG_0574.jpg
I have a similar puller. In the past I just put a little pressure on it, give the puller bolt a rap with a hammer, and POP! But so far, it's being stubborn.
I'm still letting the penetrating oil do its thing. I got time on my hands. The snow is just starting to fly here. 😂
I have the Rivera puller. But its thin at mounting point at hub but pulling on the 4 studs
Quote from: JSD on November 21, 2023, 03:21:17 PMI have the Rivera puller. But its thin at mounting point at hub but pulling on the 4 studs
Ideally it shouldn't take a lot of force. And having 4 mount points should help distribute the load.
Getting closer to a bare frame. No more surprises found at this point.
I'm running out of shelf space in the garage to place the parts after they're cleaned and inspected 😂
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That chrome backing plate OEM?
If so you're saving it right?
good pics,
:hug:
Quote from: cheech on November 21, 2023, 06:56:10 PMThat chrome backing plate OEM?
If so you're saving it right?
The broken backing plate is not OEM. I bought it from J&B back in 2003. Honestly though, I still won't throw it away. You just never know when it might be worth fixing.
Ohio HD, thanks for reminding me about the benefits of heat. I let the penetrating oil sit for 5 days. Clutch Hub was still not budging. So I grabbed my plumber's torch and concentrated the flame at the hub/shaft interface. I could hear it snap a couple times, than POP! Off it came.
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It was good you could get close to the center with the torch. I've had some of those tapers as tight as a weld it seemed.
Got it down to just a motor and frame now. We'll see if I'm strong enough to lift the motor out of the frame and carry it to the workbench by myself. 😂
Removed the transmission and transmission mounting plate. Also removed the complete wiring harness and oil cooler. Cleaning up takes a lot more time than removing the parts. I still need to hit the transmission with parts cleaner and let it soak. The wiring harness is in good shape. There are a few places with minor scuffing on the fabric loom. No damage to the insulation under the loom. I'll probably just put some shrink tube over it. I've got some shrink tube that has heat activated glue that is really good for this sort of thing.
Still need to breakdown the wheel hubs and inspect the bearings. Probably should put the wheels in the truing stand too.
Once the motor is out of the frame, I'll pull off the valve covers and R&R the gaskets. I'm going to go back to plain old cork. I seem to have the best luck with those. I tried the James rubber gaskets with steel sandwiched in the rubber, but honestly, they didn't seal that great. Not worth the cost, IMO.
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You probably already know, but maybe not. If you can get your hands on a set of cast head covers, they will almost never leak and will reduce the noise from the valve train considerably. I forget who the players are that make them, but I assume they are unobtainium at this point.
I have two sets of CCE cast aluminum covers. One polished set, one cast finish. I also thought they would be ideal for sealing tightly. But they've leaked about the same as my tin covers. Go figure!
Cleaned up the transmission while listening to the Michigan / Ohio State game (GO BLUE!). I pulled off the lid for a quick inspection. Looks really good. No funky wear on the face of the gear teeth. Shift dogs and forks look good too. I'll button it back up soon. I'm waiting for parkerized hardware for the kicker cover.
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Greqt thread Craig. You still running that power arc ignition?
thanks for the pics
Quote from: ghostrider on November 26, 2023, 04:11:02 AMGreqt thread Craig. You still running that power arc ignition?
I switched over to single plugged heads back in 2020. At that time I also switched to a Mallory ignition. I'm kind of on the fence with it. It works, but I don't like the advance curve as much as the power arc. I might switch back at some point.
Having the right tools sure makes things easier. I've used this shifter fork alignment tool a few times over the years. It's almost impossible to get precise shifter fork alignment without it. This tool is made by Jims. It's identical to the factory tool.
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Today I test fit the new kicker cover. I really like this so much better the the chrome cover. And I'm a big fan of the one piece kicker arm.
Also cleaned up the wheels and disassembled the star hubs, inspected and repacked with fresh grease.
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You're so meticulous I hate you. :hyst:
Nice work.
:hyst: That's the engineer in me.
Today I pulled the motor out of the frame. I think this motor is about 50# heavier than it was 10 years ago! :hyst:
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The frame is a grimy mess.
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... To Be Continued ...
Got the first pass of cleaning done on the frame.
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Installed the new brushes in the Cycle Electric generator. I don't think the generator would have kept charging much longer.
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My heart literally skipped four beats when I opened the first of three motor pics, then two more pics followed. I was wasted.
Pans simply ARE the most beautiful of all HD Motors! Jewels!
I spent 4 hours cleaning up the motor today. It's a nasty job, but rewarding. Also installed new cork gaskets under the valve covers.
BEFORE...
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AFTER...
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You'll need to re-grease yer elbows after 4 hours!
Simply Green (my assumption) works that good??
Nice work, Craig! Looks new yet again.
I used spray on engine degreaser, let it sit for 15min, rinse with hot water. Then I hit the tough spots with a small stainless steel brush and spray brake clean.
I really dig those D-Rings and 12-Point bolts. Very rare that I encounter such a well maintained and developed Pan. Very cool.
Funny looking lifter blocks you have there, :wink:
Quote from: turboprop on November 30, 2023, 05:36:12 AMI really dig those D-Rings and 12-Point bolts. Very rare that I encounter such a well maintained and developed Pan. Very cool.
I've been fine tuning this bike for 20 years now. Every time I tear it down, I learn something new and make adjustments/improvements. It's a labor of love.
Quote from: ghostrider on November 30, 2023, 07:44:05 AMFunny looking lifter blocks you have there, :wink:
Those are a hybrid EVO lifter block. They started out as EVO castings but were bored to the angle needed for a Panhead. They use EVO lifters which are a lot stronger than stock Panhead parts. You wouldn't want to do this to a Panhead that was being judged for correctness. But for a chopper that gets ridden a lot, it's a good modification.
Quote from: CraigArizona85248 on November 30, 2023, 09:49:46 PMQuote from: ghostrider on November 30, 2023, 07:44:05 AMFunny looking lifter blocks you have there, :wink:
Those are a hybrid EVO lifter block. They started out as EVO castings but were bored to the angle needed for a Panhead. They use EVO lifters which are a lot stronger than stock Panhead parts. You wouldn't want to do this to a Panhead that was being judged for correctness. But for a chopper that gets ridden a lot, it's a good modification.
Mods like that are the definition of chopper.
Quote from: CraigArizona85248 on November 30, 2023, 09:49:46 PMQuote from: ghostrider on November 30, 2023, 07:44:05 AMFunny looking lifter blocks you have there, :wink:
Those are a hybrid EVO lifter block. They started out as EVO castings but were bored to the angle needed for a Panhead. They use EVO lifters which are a lot stronger than stock Panhead parts. You wouldn't want to do this to a Panhead that was being judged for correctness. But for a chopper that gets ridden a lot, it's a good modification.
Interesting. I did the evo valvetrain upgrade to my shovel about 10 years ago, works great, but I didn't modify the blocks, just using the stock evo blocks, evo roller rockers and Smith Bros pushrods. Using velvatouch evo on the pan I'm building, still. So obviously your running an evo cam. How are you dealing with the bushing end of the cam? machining it down to the smaller pan OD?
Years ago, I think you sent me a ferrite bead for my GPS speedo, still working great, thanks.
I run a Crane FL 1948-1969 Big Twin Fireball Cam 296A Grind. The cam gear is modified to give it clearance for the fat EVO rollers. Also, you have to install a different cam bearing on the case end. I don't remember the bearing details but it's in the tech notes from Crane that came with the cam. I think this cam was discontinued a number of years ago.
I turned the corner on this teardown/inspection project today and started reassembly. The motor, transmission mount plate, transmission, and generator are installed.
I tried a different method of putting the motor in there frame. I set there motor on its side and lowered the frame into place. It's a lot easier dealing with a 50# frame compared to a 150# motor. Definitely a back saver technique.
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Great job Craig. That's the way frame swaps are done at a dealership.
A little more progress today...
Also, a guy on a FB panhead group messaged me and said it looks like your kickstart gear bumper is cracked. Dang! I completely missed it. Sure glad this guy spotted it and messaged me about it. Lucky for me, I have an OEM replacement made of brass. The brass shouldn't crack the way the steel piece did.
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Good Eye on behalf of the FB Panhead Guy.
And Good for You by having a replacement Part on-hand.
That sure could have been an issue down the road.
a good catch indeed, kudos to him :SM:
(https://i.imgur.com/4bABFas.png)
Quote from: Fugawee on December 03, 2023, 07:12:47 PMGood Eye on behalf of the FB Panhead Guy.
And Good for You by having a replacement Part on-hand.
That sure could have been an issue down the road.
The guy told me it happened to him. The piece broke off and got sucked into the gears. Broke the transmission case. :doh:
It's starting to look like a motorcycle again.
Got the primary drive installed, clutch installed and adjusted, oil tank and lines installed, hooked up the brake light switch and adjusted it, installed the passenger pegs, and installed the chain guard.
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<continued>
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Looking good Craig. What are you running for a 12 volt battery?
I run a generic brand AGM battery that cross references with YUASA YTZ-14S.
Gonna be too pretty to ride when your done. Seriously, It's going to be a great looking Pan
:chop:
great pics Craig-----thanks
:up:
I'm getting really close to finishing up. Rear fender, rear wheel, sissy bar, primary cover, ignition wiring, top motor mount, headlight, and passenger pegs have all been installed.
Just need to install the gas tank and add fluids and it should be a wrap.
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This is 53 year old chrome on this Paughco tin primary cover. Its got some wear but still looks amazing considering it'sage
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Quote from: crock on December 07, 2023, 03:59:23 AMSeriously, It's going to be a great looking Pan
it always has been :chop:
Wrapped it up over the weekend. Added fluids. Need a good day so I can take it for a quick shakedown ride.
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One more change today. I have a repop j-slot air cleaner baking plate that I cut up and mounted to a CV40 backing plate. The j-slot air cleaner is what came on a 1949 Panhead and is a lot smaller than the S&S air cleaner I've been running. It doesn't cover up the motor as much.
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I like the look of those air breathers.
:chop:
an antique tag would do it justice
Quote from: nibroc on December 11, 2023, 06:52:31 AM:chop:
an antique tag would do it justice
I had an antique plate in Arizona. It was made of solid copper. I'm not sure if Nevada has a antique plate for motorcycles. Even if they do, the DMV here is such a pain in the ass it's not worth the trouble.
After the 23 day tear down, inspection, and reassembly process, I started my old chopper this morning. It was a little stubborn since the temperature was 19F (-8C). It took 6 kicks to light. The flywheels felt like they were stuck in molasses. 60W oil is pretty thick when it's this cold. After it starts I closed the enricher and blip the throttle a couple times. You can see the motor expel unburned fuel and then it settles into a nice clean idle. It was a cold shakedown ride, but so worth it! This cheered me up today 😁
No sound during the portion of the video that I sped up. I didn't think you'd want to watch a 3+ minute long video.
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Craig, after you changed to single plug heads did you notice any difference in your kickstarting routine? What was the motivation for changing from dual plug heads.
I have 2 sets of dual plugged heads. After 20 years of using them hard, they are pretty much used up. Both sets have small cracks in the return oil gallies that allow oil to just sleep through to the outside of the heads. I decided they just aren't worth sinking more money into them. So I sourced a new set of heads and decided to keep these stock.
I did have to switch up my starting routine a bit. These heads like to have more fuel during startup. That's the biggest difference. A few more twists of the throttle before a couple primer kicks w/ key off.
The big difference is in fuel economy. I used to get 62mpg on the highway tank after tank. With the stock heads, I'm closer to 50mpg.
Quote from: CraigArizona85248 on May 01, 2024, 08:22:58 PMBoth sets have small cracks in the return oil gallies that allow oil to just sleep through to the outside of the heads. I decided they just aren't worth sinking more money into them.
Depending on where the crack is, sometimes it can be an easy fix. If it is leaking by tke long straight hole you can drill it and insert a piece of tubing with a little bit of epoxy. If it's leaking where the long diagonal hole meets the short vertical hole, it gets more complicated and usually involves grinding and welding and re-drilling.
Any jetting changes to your CV40?
Quote from: SP33DY on May 02, 2024, 08:16:27 AMQuote from: CraigArizona85248 on May 01, 2024, 08:22:58 PMBoth sets have small cracks in the return oil gallies that allow oil to just sleep through to the outside of the heads. I decided they just aren't worth sinking more money into them.
Depending on where the crack is, sometimes it can be an easy fix. If it is leaking by tke long straight hole you can drill it and insert a piece of tubing with a little bit of epoxy. If it's leaking where the long diagonal hole meets the short vertical hole, it gets more complicated and usually involves grinding and welding and re-drilling.
Both sets of heads have the tubing inserts already. They lasted a lot of years that way. But that's not working anymore.
Quote from: TxRoadRunner69 on May 03, 2024, 06:50:17 AMAny jetting changes to your CV40?
No jetting changes needed after switching to stock single plug heads. I did have to add a little more advance to the timing.
After I moved from Phoenix (1100 ft) to Reno (4500 ft) I did drop one jet size on the slow and main jets.