I'd appreciate any advice. Have been focusing on street/strip, mostly strip, on a 2003 RK, 117" with 11.0:1 compression ratio, TW408G cams and heads flowing ~305 cfm @ 22in at 0.650 lift. RB racing 2-1 pipe and Wild Things 57mm TB. I'd like to shift the powerband to the right--there's more than enough tq down low at this point to wheelie or spin the tire, but the power tapers-off earlier than ideal. In place of the TW408, would a TW9F, TW62, or Tman 662 help build an extra 10hp at the top end (with the understanding that the power below 3500 will drop off some)? Is there an ideal cam that would fit here? Thanks greatly
Dyno pull was done std, so not posted in the dyno section IAW forum rules
Mackie 598 or Woods 9B
What pipe is it? Might be the exhaust as much as the cams
Pipe is a 2" primary RB Racing Prostock--so if anything my (novice) understanding was that the current pipe should support top-end power but be weak in the low and mid-range. I've learned since getting it that it's not the best all-around exhaust, but for this should work alright. I assumed that the reason for the curves falling off on the top end was more the early valve closing of the TW408Gs, but am very open to being corrected by the much more experienced hands here
Is there any chance that the 57mm TB is running out of steam--I didn't think so yet, but plenty of folks here know more about limitations on the intake side
Thanks again to all for any advice or experience you can share
So here's one with a 131" and big RB, same curve with too early tq peak, drops off and starts working again way later:
http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,106245.msg1260460.html#msg1260460
And here's an old thread where you were told by gentlemen who know their stuff that you should change pipes. There's another sheet posted with the same curve that humps up early then drops off. If you look at lots of sheets it very often turns out that the curve is controlled by the pipe, and builds that are totally different in every aspect will share the same curves if they use the same pipe. If it were mine I would look at the Rush Wrath and get a divorce with the RB
http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,68833.msg743006.html#msg743006
Check this one out, same bike with diff cubes-cams-heads but the curve stays with the pipe:
http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,96108.msg1117221.html#msg1117221
Same bike, shows what the wrath did with same build, and what cams did beyond that.
http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,102526.msg1209335.html#msg1209335
Harpwrench nailed this
The CR 630i cam will move things to the right "and" support plenty of left side power. Another great candidate is a Tman 660SM if you can find one. I can't vouch for the newer version 660PS-2 but it is said to be the same with slight ramp changes. The 662-2 is like the 660SM and I have seen graphs that look almost identical but it is said to be locked and loaded at all times so the SM version tends to have more low speed parking lot manners. Call Tom Reiser if you want to know.
The Wrath is said to be the same pipe as the Dragula 1. They certainly look the same. I agree that the pipe is playing a big part. The throttle body IMO is adequate but you don't say what the injector size is. This (https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,99409.0.html) is my 120 with a 660SM, Dragula 1 (2 steps and 2.55" baffle) and a Burns pipe (3 steps and 3" baffle) on the same day. You can see how the pipe and baffle size influenced the outcome.
Quote from: HD Street Performance on January 22, 2021, 06:02:42 PM
Mackie 598 or Woods 9B
Just curious Don, cause you don't throw cams out there much (out of the context of the whole build), but when you do, these two profiles seem to be a your favorites. Can you explain?
Also, to the op. I run a 117" with the CR595i and a rush wrath. 140/136. It's in the dyno section.
They scale right up the ladder when you have heads that are working and adequate V to V. No favorite cams, just a few that would work, but there are a few that are just plain stupid mainly due to LSA and/or LC. And I prefer <.630 lift so that a reasonable valve spring can be used and take the lifter, weak link, out a little further as a maintenance item. This is why I prefer 7mm valves and a light spring package, same philosophy. In this case the zoomie pipe that looks like it should have the credentials on paper does not pan out. Any of the cams mentioned in this thread will work well, all of them with compression adjusted. Me personally I prefer a little less of a hard hit right off idle and stronger top end pull, can make that happen easy enough too. I ran the TW408 in a bike at 11:1 and 117", hated it. Hot running SOB that had terrible off idle manners and it came on super quick and died the same. Low speed reversion, tune was spot on too. Not a statement on the brand name, notice I recommended a Wood cam above. It is all in the numbers.
Have the same issues--have gotten tuned by a great shop, but runs super hot even will 10-row cooler, and idle/off-idle is a chronic problem.
Thanks to all for the recommendations, really appreciate it
If you're open to upping the compression, the cams that make right side power are more in that higher compression wheel house.
SE266 Screaming Eagle
S&S 640
Red Shift 647
All make great top end power.
:up: The SE 266 is a much forgotten option.
Does the cr651 work well at 11:1 or slightly below, or does it need more compression? The cycle rama site says 10.5-11.5
No experience with it but Wes is a smart guy and it's his creation. It sounds like you land in the middle of his recommendations. Of course all of the previous component matching criteria is likely still an important part of the success. I suggest you call Wess for his take and recommendations on what works well with it. From the horses mouth so to speak.
Call Wes, have used that cam at 12:1, an animal.
Quote from: BTraci on January 23, 2021, 12:35:56 PM
Does the cr651 work well at 11:1 or slightly below, or does it need more compression? The cycle rama site says 10.5-11.5
Ray's bike was just lightly under 12:1 with a CR651. Ray also has a great exhaust system, intake and heads.
https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,78430.0.html
(https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?action=dlattach;ts=1542728936;topic=78430.0;attach=57977;image)
those CR651's are badass cams that do like compression.
My current set up that I've ran the last few years have been the CR630i's set at a touch over 11:00.1 and I have been tickled pink with it.
[attach=0]
Quote from: No Cents on January 23, 2021, 03:08:48 PM
those CR651's are badass cams that do like compression.
My current set up that I've ran the last few years have been the CR630i's set at a touch over 11:00.1 and I have been tickled pink with it.
[attach=0,msg1375710]
How many miles do you have on your current setup?
probably around 15k on this set up.
S&S .640, or .675 will throw the power to the right.
:agree:
640s would rock. And you can have EZ starts.
woods 9F with a +4 key , i did this on a 116" 11.3 comp was a beast
Chris Rivas makes a 594 lift cam that might fit the bill. S&S grinds his stuff for him and EZ starts are available. Not on his advertised list but specs can be found, or you can call him. He said 11:1 is good for them. I'm guessing they are ramped pretty aggressively though..
594 Cams,
IO = 20 IC = 55 255 Duration
EO = 60 EC = 20 260 Duration
11:1-11.25:1 Compression for 91 Octane
If you really want to party and have the heads to handle it, tw-68 with some compression... tq dip is from the max effort exhaust system.
[attach=0]
i run the 9f in my dyna 117 all smiles same compression as yours . crappy pipe site vendor heads 137/137 all day
Quote from: HD Street Performance on January 23, 2021, 08:37:20 AM
They scale right up the ladder when you have heads that are working and adequate V to V. No favorite cams, just a few that would work, but there are a few that are just plain stupid mainly due to LSA and/or LC. And I prefer <.630 lift so that a reasonable valve spring can be used and take the lifter, weak link, out a little further as a maintenance item. This is why I prefer 7mm valves and a light spring package, same philosophy. In this case the zoomie pipe that looks like it should have the credentials on paper does not pan out. Any of the cams mentioned in this thread will work well, all of them with compression adjusted. Me personally I prefer a little less of a hard hit right off idle and stronger top end pull, can make that happen easy enough too. I ran the TW408 in a bike at 11:1 and 117", hated it. Hot running SOB that had terrible off idle manners and it came on super quick and died the same. Low speed reversion, tune was spot on too. Not a statement on the brand name, notice I recommended a Wood cam above. It is all in the numbers.
How about the CR630i? It seems to fit your above description?
Sure it's a contender if the balance of the mating parts of the assembly cooperate.
Quote from: HD Street Performance on January 27, 2021, 04:58:47 PM
Sure it's a contender if the balance of the mating parts of the assembly cooperate.
How's the Bassani B1 pipe?
SE 266 works super well with good compression. They will surprise you.
:slap:
Quote from: Sunny Jim on January 28, 2021, 05:59:43 AM
SE 266 works super well with good compression. They will surprise you.
:up: :up: 12:1
The pipe? Depends on what it is paired with, they are popular.
Quote from: HD Street Performance on January 28, 2021, 06:06:48 AM
:slap:Quote from: Sunny Jim on January 28, 2021, 05:59:43 AM
The pipe? Depends on what it is paired with, they are popular.
The B1 Paired with a build like this and a cam in the range we are discussing.
Quote from: HD Street Performance on January 28, 2021, 06:06:48 AM
:slap:Quote from: Sunny Jim on January 28, 2021, 05:59:43 AM
SE 266 works super well with good compression. They will surprise you.
:up: :up: 12:1
The pipe? Depends on what it is paired with, they are popular.
There is a set of 266 cams for sale on flea bay currently... $120 not much waisted if you don't like um 👍.
Moderators, these are not mine to sell, I'm not trying to sell or advertise a product. Just helping the OP out.
https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,78560.msg870532.html#msg870532
Pretty good looking run with the 266.
Same bike pipe cam and all, just a different end cap. Custom pipe on a 120.
Going from a Thunder header to a Boarzilla on my old 107 took away the dip and I gained 7hp on top.