I have a 2004 motor that needs rebuilding and updating. Right now it has gear drive cams in it.
I want to update the cam chest to the later model plate, what brands and parts do you recommend? Lots of choices out there.
I am assuming I will need to change cams to those that have an early model inner bearing and a later model outer bearing?
Thanks in advance.
If you don't have a billet plate now and want one and your current cams are OK. And you already have gear drive. Just get a billet plate and pump set up for that year.
I personally don't see any reason to get a later model plate if you're going billet due to the fact you're then going to need the conversion cams as you mentioned.
The later model plate ordeal is a: you get used take outs to save a buck, still want to run chains and it to be hassle free (almost) :SM:
You already have gear drive cams, so to go to chains and the later plate, if that's your intent is stepping back IMHO.
QuoteYou already have gear drive cams, so to go to chains and the later plate, if that's your intent is stepping back IMHO.
:agree: totally
What you have now is the best there is...unless something has gone wrong like crank runout increasing. Anyway I am a fan of conversion cams, maybe since that is what I have, but to convert you would need cams, a plate (stock 07 is fine), sprockets, roller chains, oil pump and tensioners.
Does the plan for the rebuild and update include changing to a different cam profile? What about the existing oil pump is it the oem type pump that came in '04 era bikes?
If you plan to change the cam profile and do have an oem type pump from '04 then I would say your plan to replace everything in the cam chest is valid. I am not going to serve you an answer on what brands, etc are the best as their are plenty of discussions oaths page about conversion cams, plates and pumps. I will point you to the dyno section to look at dyno sheets for bikes with engines similar to what you want to do.
Best of luck with your project.
If you plan to update to the '07 and up cam chest, have a look at TTS's web site, he's broken down all of the needed part numbers. Bottom of the page.
http://www.mastertune.net/products_camshafts.html (http://www.mastertune.net/products_camshafts.html)
.... and hopefully you will take the time to recheck your crank runout to determine if your gear drives are still the right choice. It could be a game changer in your decision making.
Quote from: Ohio HD on August 27, 2021, 08:00:59 AM
If you plan to update to the '07 and up cam chest, have a look at TTS's web site, he's broken down all of the needed part numbers. Bottom of the page.
http://www.mastertune.net/products_camshafts.html (http://www.mastertune.net/products_camshafts.html)
This is awesome, thanks!
Quote from: turboprop on August 27, 2021, 07:38:08 AM
Does the plan for the rebuild and update include changing to a different cam profile? What about the existing oil pump is it the oem type pump that came in '04 era bikes?
If you plan to change the cam profile and do have an oem type pump from '04 then I would say your plan to replace everything in the cam chest is valid. I am not going to serve you an answer on what brands, etc are the best as their are plenty of discussions oaths page about conversion cams, plates and pumps. I will point you to the dyno section to look at dyno sheets for bikes with engines similar to what you want to do.
Best of luck with your project.
Yes I plan to change cams.
Quote from: ndmp40 on August 27, 2021, 09:09:05 AM
Yes I plan to change cams.
you staying gear or going to chain?
Does anyone make conversion gear drive cams? (That's directed to anyone not the OP)
I'm aware of TTS, Andrews, Woods have the chain. Who else makes conversion cams?
Quote from: ndmp40 on August 27, 2021, 09:09:05 AM
Quote from: turboprop on August 27, 2021, 07:38:08 AM
Does the plan for the rebuild and update include changing to a different cam profile? What about the existing oil pump is it the oem type pump that came in '04 era bikes?
If you plan to change the cam profile and do have an oem type pump from '04 then I would say your plan to replace everything in the cam chest is valid. I am not going to serve you an answer on what brands, etc are the best as their are plenty of discussions oaths page about conversion cams, plates and pumps. I will point you to the dyno section to look at dyno sheets for bikes with engines similar to what you want to do.
Best of luck with your project.
Yes I plan to change cams.
If you have to split your cases, for any bearing or conrod work, then have the inner cam bearing journals machined to fit the '07 & up inner cam bearings. Now any gears or camchest parts will be '07 & up & makes life a little easier. :up:
:agree:
Or you could have 07-up cams inner journal ground and inner races for 99-06 inner cam bearings pressed on. Makes your own conversion cams. Just another option
QuoteIf you have to split your cases, for any bearing or conrod work, then have the inner cam bearing journals machined to fit the '07 & up inner cam bearings. Now any gears or camchest parts will be '07 & up & makes life a little easier.
I have a concern about doing this. The picture below is one I took about 11 years ago when I was installing conversion cams in my 99 FLHT. The camera caught this just right. On the rear cam bore you can see there is a tiny shoulder at the very rear of the bore (front one has it too). Since the bearing installer pilot has a step to control how deep the bearing installs I have to believe Harley included these shoulders just in case the bearing tried to walk toward the flywheel, which could be ugly. Now if a machinist were to enlarge these bores properly I would think it would require boring twice, once undersized to create the step and again the proper size and stopping just enough to leave a ridge the correct thickness. Do you trust someone to get this right? And the second concern is the bore holes in the case are reinforced at the bearing saddle area. It appears from the photo the reinforcement is maybe 1/8 inch thick and running around the outer circumference of the bore. This reinforced portion will have to be cut into when enlarging the bores to accept the larger bearings. Is this going to cause a weakness issue?
[attach=0,msg1394057]
I have bored them, I leave the shoulder and open up both the bore and the shoulder bore.
Quote from: smoserx1 on August 30, 2021, 09:19:37 AM
QuoteIf you have to split your cases, for any bearing or conrod work, then have the inner cam bearing journals machined to fit the '07 & up inner cam bearings. Now any gears or camchest parts will be '07 & up & makes life a little easier.
I have a concern about doing this. The picture below is one I took about 11 years ago when I was installing conversion cams in my 99 FLHT. The camera caught this just right. On the rear cam bore you can see there is a tiny shoulder at the very rear of the bore (front one has it too). Since the bearing installer pilot has a step to control how deep the bearing installs I have to believe Harley included these shoulders just in case the bearing tried to walk toward the flywheel, which could be ugly. Now if a machinist were to enlarge these bores properly I would think it would require boring twice, once undersized to create the step and again the proper size and stopping just enough to leave a ridge the correct thickness. Do you trust someone to get this right? And the second concern is the bore holes in the case are reinforced at the bearing saddle area. It appears from the photo the reinforcement is maybe 1/8 inch thick and running around the outer circumference of the bore. This reinforced portion will have to be cut into when enlarging the bores to accept the larger bearings. Is this going to cause a weakness issue?
[attach=0,msg1394057]
If you can't "trust someone to do it right", then they shouldn't be working on your engine. I have never had any issues after boring for the larger bearings. :up:
I appreciate the clarification. Apparently enlarging the bores is a more common practice than I realized.
Quote from: Ohio HD on August 27, 2021, 08:00:59 AM
If you plan to update to the '07 and up cam chest, have a look at TTS's web site, he's broken down all of the needed part numbers. Bottom of the page.
http://www.mastertune.net/products_camshafts.html (http://www.mastertune.net/products_camshafts.html)
so you still you a conversion camshaft correct ? Thanks
Quote from: gsxrboy96 on October 14, 2021, 08:46:10 AM
Quote from: Ohio HD on August 27, 2021, 08:00:59 AM
If you plan to update to the '07 and up cam chest, have a look at TTS's web site, he's broken down all of the needed part numbers. Bottom of the page.
http://www.mastertune.net/products_camshafts.html (http://www.mastertune.net/products_camshafts.html)
so you still you a conversion camshaft correct ? Thanks
You do, unless you machine the case for larger cam bearings.
RR cycle has very nice cam plates with a bushing , also sell the thayer 3 stage oil pump , just check your run out since its a 04 , gear drive best if your runout is still in spec for it , if you want best lifters call GMR performance steve has them pressure feed needle bearings and he only uses what works period, does a lot of big builds ,
Fueling makes complete conversion kits with everything you need. Several different choices of cam grinds.