For those of you that buy a bike and have a Stage II done by the dealer. What cams are cam you going with? I will buying a new 2020 114 in January and I am looking to juice it up. It seems that the only cam that I cam find in the SE catalog is the SE8-515. From what I can see, that cam isn't what I am looking for since I will be leaving it at stock bore. Any suggestions would be AWESOME! :pop:
What platform?
SE 447
Quote from: hulkss on November 26, 2019, 07:07:35 PM
SE 447
I believe that is the one that a friend just put in his 114. He's pretty happy with it.
Check out M8 cam testing on YTube Moonshine HD did some testing on a stock 114 on the second test session,these boys are very informative
Quote from: hulkss on November 26, 2019, 07:07:35 PM
SE 447
Referred to as the "Torque Cam", it requires no clearance and is a simple to do install. It works well in the Baggers.
The PROBLEM with H-D Tuning. It SUCKS because of EPA Regulations.
Did a Stage-III a few weeks back. The Bike barely ran above 45 on the Test Ride. Check CAL, re-flashed anyway - Called Tech Support "we're aware of that, we're working on it, just use the stock map for now". WTF! You'd better send an email. If it burns up because its lean, it's on YOU "Okay".
Many of my Customers say "I bought it to Ride, not for Warranty" Refer them to a Shop for a decent Tuner.
A friend is going through it right but now, bought the 5 or 7 year extended warranty. Really wanted to build it properly, but can't, had to go HD "Stage ll", EPA compliant tune. It runs better, but for the money he paid, it could have been so much better. When we first started talking, I told him to see if he could get his money back on the warranty so he could do what he wanted, but chose to compromise.
It does run well in its lower end and mid range, but he's not too happy that I catch and pass him on my old 95" RK.
Quote from: Hossamania on November 27, 2019, 10:24:51 AM
A friend is going through it right but now, bought the 5 or 7 year extended warranty. Really wanted to build it properly, but can't, had to go HD "Stage ll", EPA compliant tune. It runs better, but for the money he paid, it could have been so much better. When we first started talking, I told him to see if he could get his money back on the warranty so he could do what he wanted, but chose to compromise.
It does run well in its lower end and mid range, but he's not too happy that I catch and pass him on my old 95" RK.
You are so right!
I did a Limited 114 with $12k in extras before delivery!
$5,000 in Motor Work - He's brought it back so many times complaining, calling H-D, Bitched to everyone under the Sun.
All the Motorcycles he rides with he can't keep up passing anything the group does. Swears he almost got killed trying to pass a Tractor Trailer . Had it for sale on the Web for $46k (actually less than what he paid for it) with no luck. He is NOT a happy camper - H-D said change it and your Powertrain Warranty is Void - He also purchased the ESP - He's screwed. And I understand completely.
I ran it on the Dyno THREE different times and everything is right where Harley says it should be.
I get asked several times a month if I want one from Sales No thank You! 'll stick with my 2000 Carb Conversion! They think it looks bad in front of the Service Department where we park :)
My bike runs great. I do have the H-D Smart Tune Pro Module with the wideband O2 sensors. It came with the newer Bosch LSU 4.9 sensors.
Maybe this actually makes a difference?
His bike does run well, and it is running right where they said it would be, 98 horse, 118 torque, but it runs out of steam a bit early, for him anyway. I believe it still has the speed limiter as well, and that's when I pull past him, even if he does get the jump on me. He's very competitive and it drives him nuts.
So of course I keep egging him on to race...
He does walk away from my stock 103, so he's got that going for him.
I remember pissing off guys with CVO 110s with my warmed up 95" in my 2005 Ultra. One guy wanted to know what engine I had and refused to believe it was a 95". He was flat pissed that I could walk away from him.
Whip the SE8-462 power cam is also still stage 2 but a step up from the torque cam. Still has the low end but more push above 4k rpm according to MoCo's catalog dyno charts. No more work or expense. Do the Pro Street Tuner dyno tune. An aftermarket tune and often exhaust voids warranty. The Harley EPA tune doesn't leave that much on the table at this level. I know dealerships want to sell you stuff but the Stock Air breather is fine at this level. The Street Canon will give a lil better sound and flow and still retains warranty. But It doesn't buy you much in terms of performance at this level mostly a better sound. Better aftermarket pipes will need to be CARB approved if you want to retain warranty. This should run well then after your basic 2 years warranty if you are not satisfied you can step up with an aftermarket cam pipe tune etc. My 2 cents.
Man, the way that everyone is talking, I think that I may just leave the engine completely bone stock until the warranty expires and then just do what it is that I want. By the looks of the graphs, if I were going to do anything from the dealer, I would go with the 447 simply because I am rarely riding at 4000 rpm. I do get there, but just not often enough. Lots to consider.
Someone asked on which platform. The bike is a Road King Special
Happy Thanksgiving Everyone!
i have a hard time believing people willing to ride their bikes that run poorly just to save their warranty. the warranty sounds like the factories way of keeping their unhappy customers all to them selves. and if it does break they will fix it with the same parts that made it run poorly. just does not make sense to me. dsv
Quote from: dsvracer on November 28, 2019, 06:16:03 AM
i have a hard time believing people willing to ride their bikes that run poorly just to save their warranty. the warranty sounds like the factories way of keeping their unhappy customers all to them selves. and if it does break they will fix it with the same parts that made it run poorly. just does not make sense to me. dsv
It's all most talk about when modifying their new bike, gotta keep the warranty in case something breaks. Then pay $2000 to extend that warranty because planning on $4000 in warranty work, or to add value when reselling, which is kind of sad. I hear it all the time.
For me, I do not buy extended warranties or buy bikes planning to resell them. I also haven't bought a brand new bike in 20 years, so I guess I have no horse in this race.
I void the power train warranty fairly fast. I Have not been able to stand the poor stock performance.
I can understand some guys that never run over 4,000 RPM or never stretch the speed limit, then the stock tune is probably fine. I am not happy if the motorcycle will no cruise 80-90 MPH.
I never needed to go fast on an HD, there are better products for that.
I did want to get to speed quicker than any of my friends, so...
Quote from: rigidthumper on November 28, 2019, 07:12:01 AM
I never needed to go fast on an HD, there are better products for that.
I did want to get to speed quicker than any of my friends, so...
:koolaid: :hyst:
Quote from: IronButt70 on November 28, 2019, 08:35:49 AM
Quote from: rigidthumper on November 28, 2019, 07:12:01 AM
I never needed to go fast on an HD, there are better products for that.
I did want to get to speed quicker than any of my friends, so...
:koolaid: :hyst:
So true!
:hyst: :hyst: :hyst: :hyst: :hyst: :hyst: :hyst: :hyst: All good points, but there is the option to just say screw the warranty all together and do what I want right away. Here is my line of thinking. From everything that I have been reading on these M8's, why the hell not beat the piss out of it an let MoCo keep fixing it on their dime? That gives me 2 years of fun riding and basically free repairs. I have three other bikes so it isn't like I'm going to miss out on any riding.. :hyst: :hyst:
Quote from: PoorUB on November 28, 2019, 07:08:10 AM
I void the power train warranty fairly fast. I Have not been able to stand the poor stock performance.
I can understand some guys that never run over 4,000 RPM or never stretch the speed limit, then the stock tune is probably fine. I am not happy if the motorcycle will no cruise 80-90 MPH.
I'm leaving my 117 cvo basically stock. I'll keep the factory warranty and maybe do the Palmer ESP if I decide to keep it.
It's finally running nice after a few months of getting the dealership to fix all the little issues. I mainly use it for my long road trips.
It's the only Harley I own with FI, my other bikes have carbs and engine work and are faster than the new bike and this is what I use day to day. They are much more fun to ride and I can play with cams, etc. they ride/sound like REAL Harleys IMHO!
:chop: :missed:
My bud with the 114 and SE cam used TAB mufflers and it sounds pretty good. Not sure how it will work on warranty at a dealership other than the one that did the stage ll upgrade.
Quote from: rigidthumper on November 28, 2019, 07:12:01 AM
I never needed to go fast on an HD, there are better products for that.
I did want to get to speed quicker than any of my friends, so...
I also have a Yamaha R1 and a BMW R1200RT. It doesn't matter, I still expect my Harley to scoot along faster than stock.
He can do a SE cam & SE EPA approved tune and have a good running bike without voiding warranty. That's all he is after. Why the next guy has to have a mild aftermarket cam for the same riding objectives an aftermarket tune & non compliant exhaust to pick up 3 hp and "Potty mouth" the warranty makes no sense to me.
Now if he wants to go dramatically faster and get say 130 HP sure by all means screw the warranty do it up aftermarket know the risks enjoy don't look back.
Buy extended warranty? Not this guy. Perhaps for an older gentlemen with a touring bike who has no interest in better than stock performance who just wants low out of pocket no hassle repairs when touring.
Any shop willing to endure the sub-standard labor dollars dictated by the Extended Warranty, can perform that work.
DOES NOT need to be performed at an HD dealer.
Quote from: VernDiesel on November 28, 2019, 02:23:40 AM
Whip the SE8-462 power cam is also still stage 2 but a step up from the torque cam. Still has the low end but more push above 4k rpm according to MoCo's catalog dyno charts. No more work or expense. Do the Pro Street Tuner dyno tune. An aftermarket tune and often exhaust voids warranty. The Harley EPA tune doesn't leave that much on the table at this level. I know dealerships want to sell you stuff but the Stock Air breather is fine at this level. The Street Canon will give a lil better sound and flow and still retains warranty. But It doesn't buy you much in terms of performance at this level mostly a better sound. Better aftermarket pipes will need to be CARB approved if you want to retain warranty. This should run well then after your basic 2 years warranty if you are not satisfied you can step up with an aftermarket cam pipe tune etc. My 2 cents.
I will take look at that 462, it seems to be in the realm that I am looking for in all honesty. Thanks
Quote from: VernDiesel on November 29, 2019, 03:05:31 AM
He can do a SE cam & SE EPA approved tune and have a good running bike without voiding warranty. That's all he is after. Why the next guy has to have a mild aftermarket cam for the same riding objectives an aftermarket tune & non compliant exhaust to pick up 3 hp and "Potty mouth" the warranty makes no sense to me.
Now if he wants to go dramatically faster and get say 130 HP sure by all means screw the warranty do it up aftermarket know the risks enjoy don't look back.
Buy extended warranty? Not this guy. Perhaps for an older gentlemen with a touring bike who has no interest in better than stock performance who just wants low out of pocket no hassle repairs when touring.
I am not interested in the extended warranty either. That is just throwing money away. I am planning a long road trip for the summer out west and I need this bike to be as reliable as it can be under the warranty. Thanks for answering the questions as asked.
Here I am almost 4 years later and I still haven't purchased an M8. :gob: I almost have my Twin Cam finished. That bike is my hot rod.
I'm back in the market for an M8 to have as my touring bike. Still not interested in an all out build though.
For the new bike I want to address the known weak points. (Lifter cuffs, intake manifold, head breathers and tune). Did I miss anything?
Lifter cuffs are plastic, not necessarily a weak point. Take care removing the retaining bolt. Plastic manifold has shown to be an issue. Use the latest appropriate factory oil pump if you get an earlier bike. Make sure the primary vent hose kit has been installed. Decat head pipe with decent mufflers are more than adequate for stage 1. Bolt in cams & tune are seeing 120-130 TQ/110-120 HP routinely on the 114/117 engines with no reliability issues.
Quote from: WhipLash96 on October 17, 2023, 03:19:46 AMHere I am almost 4 years later and I still haven't purchased an M8. :gob: I almost have my Twin Cam finished. That bike is my hot rod.
I'm back in the market for an M8 to have as my touring bike. Still not interested in an all out build though.
For the new bike I want to address the known weak points. (Lifter cuffs, intake manifold, head breathers and tune). Did I miss anything?
You may be surprised how nice the M8 baggers run.
I would suggest at least riding it stock until the warranty runs out. That will give you time to get all the little things fixed.
You have your "fast" bike, so keep the new one for cruising!
JMHO
Quote from: WhipLash96 on November 28, 2019, 04:56:31 AMMan, the way that everyone is talking, I think that I may just leave the engine completely bone stock until the warranty expires and then just do what it is that I want. By the looks of the graphs, if I were going to do anything from the dealer, I would go with the 447 simply because I am rarely riding at 4000 rpm. I do get there, but just not often enough. Lots to consider.
Someone asked on which platform. The bike is a Road King Special
Happy Thanksgiving Everyone!
This is your best bet. My friends here with M8s either wait or say screw the warranty and do it right. Not one of them even consider anything SE and is a waste of money. Not the moco's fault really but EPA compliant is EPA compliant and will leave you disappointed.