Hi guys,
Looking at picking up a used TC 96" softail for a 103/107 build.
There a few 2007 models available in my price range. I've heard these are the worst year for the weak crank, *** and I don't have the option of going into the bottom end to fix it, strengthen it or use an aftermarket crank. ***
So how risky is it to go with a 2007 model oem crank even on a bike with fairly low miles?
I know this subject has probably been well covered but there a lot of miss information out there.
Cheers for any advice
I have an 07 RK.
I bought it from a buddy of mine who needed $ at the time. He bought the bike new & immediately tore down the motor & installed a set of 117" Axtell cylinders but left the stock lower end to save money.
When I got the bike it only had 1700 miles on it. It had been tuned by a very good dyno guy & ran great.
I was out riding it one day when all of a sudden the oil pressure dropped to zero. When I tore into the motor I realized the flywheels had scissored which broke the oil pump rotor & basically destroyed the motor. The bike still had under 2000 miles on it.
At that point I went to a 124" motor with all S&S parts & it has run super ever since.
~John
Quote from: jmorton10 on February 11, 2021, 03:51:16 PM
I have an 07 RK.
I bought it from a buddy of mine who needed $ at the time. He bought the bike new & immediately tore down the motor & installed a set of 117" Axtell cylinders but left the stock lower end to save money.
When I got the bike it only had 1700 miles on it. It had been tuned by a very good dyno guy & ran great.
I was out riding it one day when all of a sudden the oil pressure dropped to zero. When I tore into the motor I realized the flywheels had scissored which broke the oil pump rotor & basically destroyed the motor. The bike still had under 2000 miles on it.
At that point I went to a 124" motor with all S&S parts & it has run super ever since.
~John
Thanks John.
I'm not sure I would have put a 117 kit on a 2007 model. I'm thinking 103" is risky. I'm trying to keep the numbers at or below 100/100 after a good tune.
None of those things you did to your RK are going to be an option for me 😬.... also the price of used bikes here are still very high $$$.
Cheers
Depends a lot on how you ride. If you want some extra for passing on the highway, it probably will be fine. If you like visiting burn out pits, you might want to beef up the lower end.
Quote from: PoorUB on February 11, 2021, 04:03:09 PM
Depends a lot on how you ride. If you want some extra for passing on the highway, it probably will be fine. If you like visiting burn out pits, you might want to beef up the lower end.
Thanks.
I ride fairly conservatively, no burnout pits for me 😂 .
Beefing up the lower end is not an option for me $$$ wise, hence the possibility that the '07 own crank is risky to build on - even to a mild 103/107 top end keeping it below 100hp??
Cheers
You really don't need to go to 103 or 107 to reach 100/100. If the put in a good set of cams, change air cleaner, exhaust and tune those numbers are east to reach out of a 96 inch.
You can get 93HP and 106 torque with a set of cams stage 1 air breather and exhaust. A good tune is a must.
https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,98936.0.html
I put over 70k on a 07 flhx, 10.5 103 ported heads etc. I wasn't aware of any extra likelihood of it blowing up and it didn't when I owned it
I had a 07 Fatboy which I sold in 2009 and had it back here a couple of years ago to put a new set of lifters in and checked everything while I had it apart and it had 60,000 extra km's on it and runout was still the same as it was in 2007 and that was measured with the cam plate off.
Quote from: Ohio HD on February 11, 2021, 04:56:14 PM
You can get 93HP and 106 torque with a set of cams stage 1 air breather and exhaust. A good tune is a must.
https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,98936.0.html
Yes, that's a very impressive 96" for bokt in cams only!
I'll probably do the 103" just because I love working on my bike and it's something to do. Everyone needs a hobby.
😀
Quote from: Adam76 on February 11, 2021, 06:50:25 PM
Quote from: Ohio HD on February 11, 2021, 04:56:14 PM
You can get 93HP and 106 torque with a set of cams stage 1 air breather and exhaust. A good tune is a must.
https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,98936.0.html
Yes, that's a very impressive 96" for bokt in cams only!
I'll probably do the 103" just because I love working on my bike and it's something to do. Everyone needs a hobby.
😀
Every little bit helps.
Quote from: Scotty on February 11, 2021, 06:01:30 PM
I had a 07 Fatboy which I sold in 2009 and had it back here a couple of years ago to put a new set of lifters in and checked everything while I had it apart and it had 60,000 extra km's on it and runout was still the same as it was in 2007 and that was measured with the cam plate off.
Thanks Scotty, I just got off the phone with another knowledgeable guy over here in the west that does a lot of dyno tuning and he said the 07 bike no worse than any other year after it -- in fact he said 07 - 09 are the better year choice in his opinion due to no abs and no can bus. Simpler to work on.
I'm going to do a 103" - What do you reckon is a good piston and cam combo for the 96 - 103 upgrade? I'd like to keep it at around 9.2 dynamic comp and 190 - 195ccp just for reliability and less risk of pinging and even though I use premium fuel.
Cheers
Looks like I can get a set of JE 10-1 pistons or a set of Wiseco 10.5:1 pistons both taking it to 103"....
I'm thinking the 10.5 comp pistons might be too high with an average cam? Haven't chosen a cam yet, thinking about the Andrews 57.
Quote from: Ohio HD on February 11, 2021, 04:56:14 PM
You can get 93HP and 106 torque with a set of cams stage 1 air breather and exhaust. A good tune is a must.
https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,98936.0.html
Thanks Ohio, I've seen the CR 570-2 do really well as a bolt in on the stock 103's... Does it do well with a little more compression? Or are there better choices of cams at 10:1. Maybe the CR575 ?
Thanks
-You will get a hundred different opinions, but I have a 2016 Limited and the engine is stock other than CR570-2 cams, no cat in the exhaust and a tune. No idea of the HP, but it sure runs better than it did stock.
You might find a set of Harley stock 103" pistons and bore your cylinders. You could check with around and find a set of low mileage take outs. A couple years ago the local dealer had a rummage sale and had piles of 103" pistons and cylinders. some looked like new, probably just a couple miles on them.
Adam, when you pull the cam cover check your runout. Once you know what you have you can decide if you want to add some stress or do a tune on a stage 1. Your barrels can be bored to 103 so all you need is pistons and if you decide, a nice mild cam that produces in the rpm range you ride in most. A real budget build. If you are looking at a torque cam that puts out from 2000 to 4500 the intake closing spec will likely be what determines your compression the most. If you can fit it with a .030 head gasket and that will combat the pinging if any. I think you have a solid plan if the runout is still at the low end of spec. (up to .006 or so should be fine if your not beating on it and downshifting too hard) Go to the Big Boyz calculator (http://www.bigboyzheadporting.com/tccams.htm) and enter some cam numbers to your engine specs and it'll tell you close what your compression will be. Then search the dyno section and see if you can find an example that will give you an idea what it will be like. You can go there first and choose a cam before using the calculator too. For sure you'll get a few suggestions in this thread. Ohio and PUB just gave you one that's decent.
Quote from: PoorUB on February 11, 2021, 07:28:51 PM
-You will get a hundred different opinions, but I have a 2016 Limited and the engine is stock other than CR cams, no cat in the exhaust and a tune. No idea of the HP, but it sure runs better than it did stock.
You might find a set of Harley stock 103" pistons and bore your cylinders. You could check with around and find a set of low mileage take outs. A couple years ago the local dealer had a rummage sale and had piles of 103" pistons and cylinders. some looked like new, probably just a couple miles on them.
Thanks I just saw some on eBay. That might be an option.
Quote from: kd on February 11, 2021, 07:31:38 PM
Adam, when you pull the cam cover check your runout. Once you know what you have you can decide if you want to add some stress or do a tune on a stage 1. Your barrels can be bored to 103 so all you need is pistons and if you decide, a nice mild cam that produces in the rpm range you ride in most. A rewal budget build. If you are looking at a torque cam that puts out from 2000 to 4500 the intake closing spec will likely be what determines your compression the most. If you can fit it with a .030 head gasket and that will combat the pinging if any. I think you have a solid plan if the runout is still at the low end of spec. (up to .006 or so should be fine if your not beating on it and downshifting too hard) Go to the Big Boyz calculator (http://www.bigboyzheadporting.com/tccams.htm) and enter some cam numbers to your engine specs and it'll tell you close what your compression will be. Then search the dyno section and see if you can find an example that will give you an idea what it will be like. You can go there first and choose a cam before using the calculator too. For sure you'll get a few suggestions in this thread. Ohio just gave you one that's decent.
Thanks kd, that's great advice. I'll do that.
And yes, just going to 103" pistons only.
Cheers
Quote from: Adam76 on February 11, 2021, 07:32:23 PM
Quote from: PoorUB on February 11, 2021, 07:28:51 PM
-You will get a hundred different opinions, but I have a 2016 Limited and the engine is stock other than CR cams, no cat in the exhaust and a tune. No idea of the HP, but it sure runs better than it did stock.
You might find a set of Harley stock 103" pistons and bore your cylinders. You could check with around and find a set of low mileage take outs. A couple years ago the local dealer had a rummage sale and had piles of 103" pistons and cylinders. some looked like new, probably just a couple miles on them.
Thanks I just saw some on eBay. That might be an option.
Stock 103 flat tops, stock heads, .030 head gasket and S&S 570 ES. Should be right in the 195 ccp range . No releases required in the heads and will start with stock starter and cables. Low budget good HP/$$ gain. :scratch: Bob
Quote from: FXDBI on February 11, 2021, 09:20:24 PM
Quote from: Adam76 on February 11, 2021, 07:32:23 PM
Quote from: PoorUB on February 11, 2021, 07:28:51 PM
-You will get a hundred different opinions, but I have a 2016 Limited and the engine is stock other than CR cams, no cat in the exhaust and a tune. No idea of the HP, but it sure runs better than it did stock.
You might find a set of Harley stock 103" pistons and bore your cylinders. You could check with around and find a set of low mileage take outs. A couple years ago the local dealer had a rummage sale and had piles of 103" pistons and cylinders. some looked like new, probably just a couple miles on them.
Thanks I just saw some on eBay. That might be an option.
Stock 103 flat tops, stock heads, .030 head gasket and S&S 570 ES. Should be right in the 195 ccp range . No releases required in the heads and will start with stock starter and cables. Low budget good HP/$$ gain. :scratch: Bob
Thanks Bob, that's not a bad option at all. I will see where I can find some nos HD 103" pistons, maybe from one of the big HD stores in the US? Be cheaper than the dealer here in sure.
Quote from: FXDBI on February 11, 2021, 09:20:24 PM
Stock 103 flat tops, stock heads, .030 head gasket and S&S 570 ES.
:agree: That is a good plan
You just need the 103" pistons part number 21962-07 $200 in OZ but you can get a set from Midwest in the states for around $110AU delivered just put in the part number and search.
Thanks guys :up:
Quote from: Scotty on February 11, 2021, 11:05:45 PM
Quote from: FXDBI on February 11, 2021, 09:20:24 PM
Stock 103 flat tops, stock heads, .030 head gasket and S&S 570 ES.
:agree: That is a good plan
You just need the 103" pistons part number 21962-07 $200 in OZ but you can get a set from Midwest in the states for around $110AU delivered just put in the part number and search.
Thanks Scotty, I was trying to find the part number :up:
S&S Cycle 106-5234 570CE Easy Start Chain Drive Camshaft Kit that is the cam you need
I'm far from being an expert but I can tell you what I did with my 08 FXSTC softail. As mentioned the first thing to do is check the runout. If it's good then chances are it will stay that way baring abuse. If not, it needs to be corrected now.
I was in northern Virginia at the time and rode my bike in the heavy rush hour traffic that is the DC area. I found myself constantly shifting gears up and down as the traffic went from stop to go and back again. So I told my Indy I needed a stump puller that could torque its way through some of that traffic. With Zippers being just an hour up the road we went their Sleeper 103 Kit with the 525 cams.
https://www.zippersperformance.com/sleeper-103-kit/
I already had a T-Max installed and my Indy did some valve work during the build. I also went with the Red Shift Cams Dual Piston Cam Chain Tensioners and a fueling cam plate and pump. The results were exactly what I wanted. Rush hour shifting was reduced by a good 40% and I now have a bike with which I've never been happier. That was some 7 years ago and the engine continues to run strong as ever. First time in my life there's nothing I "Want or Need" to do to my engine.
Now if I could just get the time/money to work on the suspension....................
Quote from: Appowner on February 12, 2021, 05:10:19 AM
I'm far from being an expert but I can tell you what I did with my 08 FXSTC softail. As mentioned the first thing to do is check the runout. If it's good then chances are it will stay that way baring abuse. If not, it needs to be corrected now.
I was in northern Virginia at the time and rode my bike in the heavy rush hour traffic that is the DC area. I found myself constantly shifting gears up and down as the traffic went from stop to go and back again. So I told my Indy I needed a stump puller that could torque its way through some of that traffic. With Zippers being just an hour up the road we went their Sleeper 103 Kit with the 525 cams.
https://www.zippersperformance.com/sleeper-103-kit/
I already had a T-Max installed and my Indy did some valve work during the build. I also went with the Red Shift Cams Dual Piston Cam Chain Tensioners and a fueling cam plate and pump. The results were exactly what I wanted. Rush hour shifting was reduced by a good 40% and I now have a bike with which I've never been happier. That was some 7 years ago and the engine continues to run strong as ever. First time in my life there's nothing I "Want or Need" to do to my engine.
Now if I could just get the time/money to work on the suspension....................
Hey thanks for the feedback, and sounds like you've got a nice running bike!
That zippers sleeper kit is actually pretty good value considering what you get for $1,300.... new tensioners, pushrods, cams, cylinders, pistons and complete gasket set..... very tempting, but I think the way I'm doing it piece by piece instead of a kit might come out a little cheaper. Money toward a good tune.
I'm looking at a set of Bitubo softail shocks for the best ride and comfort. Check them out.
I'd be doing something about the POS Rotor/Comp Cup Assy they used in the 07's ....... a disaster waiting to happen
Quote from: FSG on February 12, 2021, 03:43:58 PM
I'd be doing something about the POS Rotor/Comp Cup Assy they used in the 07's ....... a disaster waiting to happen
Thanks FSG. I'll look into that.
Cheers
Quote from: FSG on February 12, 2021, 03:43:58 PM
I'd be doing something about the POS Rotor/Comp Cup Assy they used in the 07's ....... a disaster waiting to happen
I have a 2006 Dyna I believe its the same bolted on assembly. I had one of the early ones with no Loctite on the bolts. I found the loose bolts on a inspection. Removed them all cleaned and re-assembled with red Loctite and staked the bolts in 3 spots each with a center punch. The upgrade requires a new stator rotor and compensator. I also set and welded my auto tensioner at the same time. I only use HD primary fluid and change it every oil change. Still holding up with a 110 in the bike, UNLIKE the 3rd gear in the transmission.
Bob
07 touring has bad final drive gearing. People lugged the piss out of them and pounded the bottom ends. Thats probably a why some had problems
Quote from: tbird on February 12, 2021, 05:51:26 PM
07 touring has bad final drive gearing. People lugged the piss out of them and pounded the bottom ends. Thats probably a why some had problems
Was the gearing different for the softail line up?
Final drive gearing the same.
Quote from: Adam76 on February 13, 2021, 05:19:57 AM
Quote from: tbird on February 12, 2021, 05:51:26 PM
07 touring has bad final drive gearing. People lugged the piss out of them and pounded the bottom ends. Thats probably a why some had problems
Was the gearing different for the softail line up?
Just don't lug the bike around especially 6th gear which is only really usable once you get up to 120kmh which with Harley speedos is still only 110kmh in real life
I think a key to longevity with most motors is DON'T lug them!
A friend of mine went from riding a 4 speed Shovel with shortened gears (town bike) to a 2007 RoadKing and complained about how doggy it was. I told him to quit shifting, leave it in 4th on the hiway (55-60 mph), especially two up, and run the gears out longer.
He's not real mechanically inclined, so it took a while for the concept to sink in.
He still lugs it, not quite as bad.
Agreed! I rarely ever get the bike into 5th and almost never into 6th. And when I do, I'm watching for the Police as well.
I'm convinced the six speed tranny was nothing more than a marketing ploy by the MOCO. 99.9% of us really do not need the thing. (OK, maybe 95%)
Then again maybe the idea was all the service revenue repairing all those over-lugged bikes for those who don't know any better?
I have a 2007 Ultra. So far ok with the comp sprocket. Installed Andrew 48 cams. As soon as the compansator starts knock or kicking back Darkhorse 30 will be installed. 6th gear is useless below 70mph.
The bike is easy to work on no canbus or antiloc brakes. If I still have it and if it needs a top end maybe go 107 or 110. I do worry about stock bottom ends with mileage.
If the price is right buy it
MIKE
I agree, if it is a nice bike for the reminder that price, buy it.
Quote from: Scotty on February 13, 2021, 03:48:56 PM
Quote from: Adam76 on February 13, 2021, 05:19:57 AM
Quote from: tbird on February 12, 2021, 05:51:26 PM
07 touring has bad final drive gearing. People lugged the piss out of them and pounded the bottom ends. Thats probably a why some had problems
Was the gearing different for the softail line up?
Just don't lug the bike around especially 6th gear which is only really usable once you get up to 120kmh which with Harley speedos is still only 110kmh in real life
Agreed.
I definitely don't lug my bikes, and I can always do a pulley change if required.
Interesting point about the tall gearing of the '07s and the likely lugging amd stress on the bottom end that lugging causes in relation to the reputation of the 07s weak crank... Probably no weaker than the 08 09 etc. ?
Thanks. 👍
Quote from: Hossamania on February 14, 2021, 09:18:32 AM
I agree, if it is a nice bike for the reminder that price, buy it.
Guess I should proof read once in a while.
Quote from: Hossamania on February 15, 2021, 06:03:06 AM
Quote from: Hossamania on February 14, 2021, 09:18:32 AM
I agree, if it is a nice bike for the reminder that price, buy it.
Guess I should proof read once in a while.
:hyst: Trying out that gin and tonic leg cramp cure? :soda:
Quote from: kd on February 15, 2021, 07:18:00 AM
Quote from: Hossamania on February 15, 2021, 06:03:06 AM
Quote from: Hossamania on February 14, 2021, 09:18:32 AM
I agree, if it is a nice bike for the reminder that price, buy it.
Guess I should proof read once in a while.
:hyst: Trying out that gin and tonic leg cramp cure? :soda:
Worked like a dream, no cramps! Some posting issues though...
Yep, that's one of those things that they read real fast at the end of the TV commercial. :hyst: