One of my good buddy's has a 16 SG CVO with a rear end wobble kicking in around 70 mph when hitting a bump or leaning it over into a corner. We just replaced the rear swing arm bearings. Both bearings on the inner side were split. Not the outer race but the inner secondary race. Does anyone know if that is the way the bearing is supposed to be? We put in drag specialty bearings which didn't have any split or a secondary race.
Other question is- We had to jack the motor and trans up quite a bit to get the jackshaft re-installed/ aligned. Seemed odd there was that much torque on the swing arm jackshaft? Is that normal or should we be loosening up motor mounts to get that motor and trans better aligned with the rear?
In the first paragraph are you referring to the inner spacers that get pressed into the spherical bearings? When you buy the bearings they don't have the inner spacers pressed in but that's what you need to do before pressing the bearings with the spacers installed into the fork. Disclaimer: I'm not familiar with year 2016 and I don't know if they've changed the design from the 2009 to 13 models.
Yes, the bearing is pressed into a bushing. The bushing was not split. There are 2 races on the HD bearing an inner and an outer.
Quote from: Mainecat on January 28, 2019, 10:25:12 AM
Yes, the bearing is pressed into a bushing. The bushing was not split. There are 2 races on the HD bearing an inner and an outer.
The picture of the two bearings you posted are just the bearings. Those do not have the inner spacers pressed in. Here are two pictures (front and back) of the bearing with the inner spacer pressed into the bearing. This bearing was just removed a few days ago when I put new ones in.
[attach=0,msg1279493] [attach=1,msg1279493]
Looks like your bearing is split as well
What size rear wheel and tire is he running?
What came on the 16 CVO- 180-55-18
Quote from: Mainecat on January 28, 2019, 01:37:11 PM
Looks like your bearing is split as well
Yes it is. Good eye. It could be that you have a defective tire causing the wobble. I had a low speed wobble. I replaced the steering head bearings but it didn't solve the problem. I replace the rear tire and problem solved.
Rear tire is at the wear bars, but this high speed wobble has been going on since he bought it. The tire was not even half worn then. It's not in the front end, it's in the rear end. It seems to be an issue with many 16's. Was hoping someone had figured it out. We haven't tried it since the new bearings went in.
As originally stated, I am shocked at the amount of torque it took on the engine and trans to line that rear swing arm shaft back up.
So you are saying that the bike has had the same tire in the rear since he's owned it?
Yes, factory tire.
Have you checked the steering neck bearings? Wobbles can come from unexpected places.
I have owned three baggers and all three the neck bearings were loose.
Yes, the neck bearings were checked by us and an HD shop, it's not in the front end. We've gone over the front end thoroughly, even switched out front fork springs.
Quote from: Mainecat on January 28, 2019, 02:41:37 PM
Yes, factory tire.
Then it could still be a defective tire. The factory Dunlop tire that I replaced was almost new when I replaced it. That's what the problem ended up being. I'm not quite understanding what you mean when you say you have to put a tremendous amount of torque on the engine and transmission to line up the rear fork shaft. Are you saying the transmission case it's a little cockeyed so you can't just push the fork shaft through the motorcycle frame and have it slide in and through?
The rear tire is going to be replaced here shortly. Yes, we are talking about the same thing. The rear swing arm shaft runs through the back of the trans and it took a lot of torque to re-align it.
Quote from: Mainecat on January 28, 2019, 03:06:14 PM
The rear tire is going to be replaced here shortly. Yes, we are talking about the same thing. The rear swing arm shaft runs through the back of the trans and it took a lot of torque to re-align it.
One of the only things I can think of is that you have bad motor mounts that have sagged one way and it causes the transmission case not to line up with the frame of the motorcycle. Furthermore bad motor mounts could have caused your swingarm bearings to break because of the stress and side loads. I can't think of anything else that would cause the transmission case not to line up with the frame unless the frame is bent. If it were my bike I would also replace the swing arm rubber mounts.
Good to know about the frame mounts or twisted frame. The rubber mounts looked good, no dry rot or cracks.
Pretty typical on baggers to not have the engine mounts all line up. In this case the engine mounts were all on, and the swing arm shaft bearings and holes, what ever, did not line up. Most guys see it when doing engine work and pull the heads, The top link will not bolt up without someone forcing the engine to one side or the other.
this bike hasnt been in a accident,make sure the tyre is beaded on the rim properly, and aligned properly
Also did you read the (SM) repair Book to actually see how they inform you how to do the alignment with all of the components, when I pulled my tranny case out and installed a DD7,and a new tranny case,,,,,,I had a machinist make some new items for the bearing,because of the loose tolerances with the swing arm components,my rear tranny case mount actually had been slightly egg shaped,
I am going to tell you to call the guys at Pickard USA, (972-924-0197). They solved my same issue when I was running a 200-55-17 on my RGS. I had run this rear wheel on 3 bikes. 2009, 2015 & 2017. The 2009 pre-Rushmore had no issues with the original Metzler tire or the replacement tires. Got 2015 RGS model, put on 17 rear wheel and here comes this wagging in the rear 75+ mph. I termed it walking the dog. Because the rear end would waggle left to right just like my dogs tail when you are walking her. Tried several rear tires, got better then worse with heavy load on bike. Bought M8 17, put wheels on this bike, same issue. Tried a new Dunlop 200 tire.. Issue not there, until riding home from Sturgis, running 80-90 mph across I90, bike somewhat loaded down with a cross wind. Talked to guys at Pickard told me to put my stock 16 rear on. Guess what, problem gone. Still running my 21 front. Apparently, the sidewalls on 17 and 18 rear tires are flexing enough to make the rear end mushy enough that it wigs, wags, flex's, heats up or whatever. There may have been some minor changes to the frame or suspension from pre-Rushmore to Rushmore. I know the rear fender clearance on the Rushmore bikes had to be adjusted to keep the rear tire from rubbing on the fender brace below the rear lights.
The new Dunlop tire. Is it just the stock replacement or the American Elite?
It was the American Elite 200-55-17. The stock tire is the original HD from factory 180-65-16. There is a significant difference in load rating.
So what was the verdict? Was it the tire needing replacement?
Ride safe!
Haven't even been able to try it, weather has been brutal for several weeks now.
So my buddy has been able to do some high speed runs and says there is no more high speed wobble.
What did he end up doing to solve the issue?
Also, did it have a slow speed wobble? (Hands off, decelerating to a stop?) If so, is that cured as well?
Quote from: Hossamania on June 24, 2019, 05:50:34 PM
What did he end up doing to solve the issue?
Also, did it have a slow speed wobble? (Hands off, decelerating to a stop?) If so, is that cured as well?
Hoss I rather curious what was the problem . my 13 road glide had the caster or death wobble at 80 or so and it was un nerving damn . It fixed now I tested it several times now an it happens very quickly lol
Replaced rear swing arm bushings with aftermarket.
Good to know, thanks for that info.
You had mentioned the force needed line up the bushings with the tranny, did you do anything about that, or just assemble and go? No new tires?
Glad he's back safely on the road.
No, we did nothing about the force needed to line the transmission up to the rear swing arm pivot bolt. We thought about breaking loose the motor mounts to relieve that unsprung pressure, but decided not to potentially open a bigger can of worms.