[attach=0]
note the P3 crank
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[attach=1]
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[attach=1]
[attachimg=3]
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[attach=1]
No hp numbers or graphs but they may actually have grown the engine big enough to start using the big ports in the M-8 heads.
Nikasil coated cylinder liners?
https://leadingedge-vtwin.com/
Gary...I tried to copy and paste the web site...but I couldn't get it to.
This guy has a big history in the Nascar world...for many years.
Quote from: FSG on July 07, 2018, 02:35:06 PM
https://leadingedge-vtwin.com/ (https://leadingedge-vtwin.com/)
Nikasil :down:
Not the right application for that stuff.
I bet Randy Torgeson can make some nice iron cylinders for this. That would be the route I'd prefer.
Quote from: No Cents on July 07, 2018, 02:58:06 PM
Gary...I tried to copy and paste the web site...but I couldn't get it to.
This guy has a big history in the Nascar world...for many years.
interesting how they have done the code on the site
(https://img1.wsimg.com/isteam/ip/3e2b0976-9c92-449d-9b43-20dfd27cd333/3db5a09a-da35-4d86-a96d-5b70b27cbcd6.jpg/:/rs=h:500,cg:true,m/cr=w:800,h:500,a:cc)
(https://img1.wsimg.com/isteam/ip/3e2b0976-9c92-449d-9b43-20dfd27cd333/fb2cf3df-de6c-4ef7-b9c0-f6367a8bf2ba.JPEG/:/rs=h:400,cg:true,m/cr=w:800,h:500,a:cc)
(https://https://img1.wsimg.com/isteam/ip/3e2b0976-9c92-449d-9b43-20dfd27cd333/288c6f20-6b28-49a7-97bc-7d0b0ac006dd.JPEG/:/rs=w:400,h:500,cg:true,m/cr=w:800,h:500,a:cc)
(https://img1.wsimg.com/isteam/ip/3e2b0976-9c92-449d-9b43-20dfd27cd333/adf2adcf-3824-45df-9e22-f5c2e2c2785c.JPEG/:/rs=w:400,h:500,cg:true,m/cr=w:800,h:500,a:cc)
(https://img1.wsimg.com/isteam/ip/3e2b0976-9c92-449d-9b43-20dfd27cd333/3c407dd3-f77c-4739-a767-764a9061ce6c.jpeg/:/rs=w:400,h:500,cg:true,m/cr=w:800,h:500,a:cc)
(https://img1.wsimg.com/isteam/ip/3e2b0976-9c92-449d-9b43-20dfd27cd333/84037461-68e5-4a62-a356-c3e41a87648d.jpeg/:/rs=w:400,h:500,cg:true,m/cr=w:800,h:500,a:cc)
(https://img1.wsimg.com/isteam/ip/3e2b0976-9c92-449d-9b43-20dfd27cd333/6222cc44-c1dc-483b-86ec-2c0b4f2dd70c.JPEG/:/rs=w:400,h:500,cg:true,m/cr=w:800,h:500,a:cc)
Quote from: No Cents on July 07, 2018, 02:58:06 PM
Gary...I tried to copy and paste the web site...but I couldn't get it to.
This guy has a big history in the Nascar world...for many years.
What is his name?
Quote from: 1FSTRK on July 07, 2018, 03:37:13 PM
Quote from: No Cents on July 07, 2018, 02:58:06 PM
Gary...I tried to copy and paste the web site...but I couldn't get it to.
This guy has a big history in the Nascar world...for many years.
What is his name?
Mike Ege
Is Nikasil really the problem or was it the butchers selling it? As an F1 fan, I don't have a ton of respect for NASCAR, but I'm sure this guys knows more than the infamous HD Nikasil guy.
Or was it the aluminum cylinders with no sleeves? I don't know.
Nikasil left a bad taste in a lot of mouths but this was not limited to Harley. BMW and Porsche had bad spells with it too. That said many use it today successfully.
So the p3R flywheels aren't a proprietary item then?
Neat stuff
Just by "looking" at those cyls., it seems hard to believe that they will cool "better". :fish:
Quote from: koko3052 on July 07, 2018, 08:24:07 PM
Just by "looking" at those cyls., it seems hard to believe that they will cool "better". :fish:
Same thought. Those fins are about as useless as you can get.
Ron
Quote from: 1FSTRK on July 07, 2018, 03:37:13 PM
Quote from: No Cents on July 07, 2018, 02:58:06 PM
Gary...I tried to copy and paste the web site...but I couldn't get it to.
This guy has a big history in the Nascar world...for many years.
What is his name?
[attach=0]
Nikasil coated on steel sleeve? Does that not negate the positive of transferring heat directly through the aluminum? Nikasil is a great product but some plating processes leave a lot to be desired and knowledge on finishing Nikasil. I would think the steel sleeve would have to coated and then pressed into the cylinder due to the chemical used to plate the steel would harm the aluminum.
Knowledge on Nikasil good read great guy.
https://www.snowest.com/forum/showthread.php?p=3890732 (https://www.snowest.com/forum/showthread.php?p=3890732)
He has been working with Nikasil on a daily basis for many many years.
Quote from: Raleigh111 on July 08, 2018, 08:08:40 AM
Nikasil coated on steel sleeve? Does that not negate the positive of transferring heat directly through the aluminum? Nikasil is a great product but some plating processes leave a lot to be desired and knowledge on finishing Nikasil. I would think the steel sleeve would have to coated and then pressed into the cylinder due to the chemical used to plate the steel would harm the aluminum.
Knowledge on Nikasil good read great guy.
https://www.snowest.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-401594.html (https://www.snowest.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-401594.html)
https://www.snowest.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-433563.html (https://www.snowest.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-433563.html)
He has been working with Nikasil on a daily basis for many many years.
Are these discussions about liquid cooled cylinders? If not, it may not be relative to the HD stuff. Liquid cooling is a game chager with cylinder expansion control etc..
Quote from: kd on July 08, 2018, 08:16:08 AM
Quote from: Raleigh111 on July 08, 2018, 08:08:40 AM
Nikasil coated on steel sleeve? Does that not negate the positive of transferring heat directly through the aluminum? Nikasil is a great product but some plating processes leave a lot to be desired and knowledge on finishing Nikasil. I would think the steel sleeve would have to coated and then pressed into the cylinder due to the chemical used to plate the steel would harm the aluminum.
Knowledge on Nikasil good read great guy.
https://www.snowest.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-401594.html (https://www.snowest.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-401594.html)
https://www.snowest.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-433563.html (https://www.snowest.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-433563.html)
He has been working with Nikasil on a daily basis for many many years.
Are these discussions about liquid cooled cylinders? If not, it may not be relative to the HD stuff. Liquid cooling is a game chager with cylinder expansion control etc..
Yes i agree but found the finishing process very interesting. Since the topic of failure came up i thought i would share this info. Honing a Nikasil cylinder is honing a Nikasil cylinder. Read if you like or not.
The article is interesting. Ring seal, piston and ring life, and oil control are all critical.
Baby with the bath water as far as Nikasil in my opinion. Lets wait and see how these motors hold then decide. This guy obviously brings a new set of eyes and experience to the HD world and his approach is fresh. Give it a shot
Quote from: HD Street Performance on July 08, 2018, 08:30:43 AM
The article is interesting. Ring seal, piston and ring life, and oil control are all critical.
The guy just about went out of business standing behind his work which in today's world is very admirable. I sent him a set of brand new cylinders from the factory before the motor was ever run to have him finish them better then OEM. Very interesting about how porous the finish is and cross hatching is the enemy.
Back to topic the steel cylinders liners coated baffles me? A lot better minds then me have a reason and i would like to hear the reasoning? Defiantly not to cut costs.
Quote from: Raleigh111 on July 08, 2018, 08:28:34 AM
Quote from: kd on July 08, 2018, 08:16:08 AM
Quote from: Raleigh111 on July 08, 2018, 08:08:40 AM
Nikasil coated on steel sleeve? Does that not negate the positive of transferring heat directly through the aluminum? Nikasil is a great product but some plating processes leave a lot to be desired and knowledge on finishing Nikasil. I would think the steel sleeve would have to coated and then pressed into the cylinder due to the chemical used to plate the steel would harm the aluminum.
Knowledge on Nikasil good read great guy.
https://www.snowest.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-401594.html (https://www.snowest.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-401594.html)
https://www.snowest.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-433563.html (https://www.snowest.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-433563.html)
He has been working with Nikasil on a daily basis for many many years.
Are these discussions about liquid cooled cylinders? If not, it may not be relative to the HD stuff. Liquid cooling is a game chager with cylinder expansion control etc..
Yes i agree but found the finishing process very interesting. Since the topic of failure came up i thought i would share this info. Honing a Nikasil cylinder is honing a Nikasil cylinder. Read if you like or not.
Please don't misinterpret my post. I do find the info very interesting and have been following the nik development. It would be interesting to know why there has been some successful use of nik cylinders on Harleys (although it seems minimal) and why some have been repeated failures.
KD agree, and i did not misinterpret. All good.
My 107 Nik kit went on to 2 different bikes, with great success.
Hmm looks like the SE M8 hi flow intake on that black RGS
Welcome to the forum. That's a heck of a first post. Thanks for signing up and joining into this discussion. I hope you will find the level of discussion satisfactory. With the type of development you describe, I have to ask if you started this project with a twin cam engine (before the M* was introduced)? I find your description of the day to day street use of this engine interesting. Can you elaborate on the compression and cam specs to give us an idea where it performs best (if that really matters with a 151). Maybe a dyno sheet and AFR graph? Lastly, is the machining / assembly process proprietary too?
Sorry to pile it on you like this but I suspect others will be asking the same questions eventually.
Thats a lot of stroke, where does it safely top out at RPM wise?
It says that you've developed your own clutch? Is it only available with the kit or as a stand alone?
It says that you are not using the factory system to get oil to the top end, how are you getting it there?
Thanks.
I'm assuming that the OEM head castings are used, but modified for the cam and displacement needs? Stock valve sizes?
Is it just me?
I cannot find anyone with less than 300 posts posting on this thread.
Look harder, yobtaf103, 240 posts, but what does that have to do with anything?
What happened to the post from the guy that claimed to be the builder of the 151"??? :missed:
Yes.... there were 2 posts going last night with the builder chiming in...can't seem to find any of it now. :scratch:
Quote from: koko3052 on August 02, 2018, 06:16:55 PM
Yes.... there were 2 posts going last night with the builder chiming in...can't seem to find any of it now. :scratch:
Probably seen as advertising for the company.
I read the post as a discussion not advertisement, thought that was allowed.
The posts were removed, some considered them advertising.
Quote from: ecir50 on August 02, 2018, 07:30:45 PM
I read the post as a discussion not advertisement, thought that was allowed.
I thought it discussion and info also (I did not see the second one), but the admin makes their own interpretation, and it is their site to do as they see fit. I hope LE151 chimes back in with some info.
I thought they were both, interesting and informative. I am referring to the builder's reply, to the questions and
misunderstandings . I would like to hear his reply, to the rest of the rest of the questions asked. Might be a viable
replacement engine. One that won't Sump, Slump, Puke or Fry. Somebody has to do it. Let's take a look.
5 fins...
Every BMW motorcycle made since the 80s uses nikasil. Air cooled, oil cooled(heads), and now water cooled(heads). Pretty sure Japanese bikes are all Nikasil.
Only a Harley has the long stroke with more scuff than a short stroke engine.
Hiro is building a T-Man 135" with Nikasil cylinders to run at Bonneville this year, chasing 250mph. Probably won't put 100k miles on those cylinders tho...
Quote from: rageglide on August 03, 2018, 08:09:37 PM
5 fins...
Every BMW motorcycle made since the 80s uses nikasil. Air cooled, oil cooled(heads), and now water cooled(heads). Pretty sure Japanese bikes are all Nikasil.
Only a Harley has the long stroke with more scuff than a short stroke engine.
Hiro is building a T-Man 135" with Nikasil cylinders to run at Bonneville this year, chasing 250mph. Probably won't put 100k miles on those cylinders tho...
You would be wrong there. Many on the metrics run High silicon aluminum alloy blocks with no liners. Think back to the Chevy Vega, but the Japanese did i much better!
His post stated emphatically that they were not Nikasil cylinders, they were aluminum with steel liners. He also claimed that they did lots of testing and that the oddly designed cylinder fins cooled very well and that the engine ran cooler than stock... if true, quite a feat for 151Ci. As I recall, it had quite a long, stroke somewhere around 5" so it was very under-square. It sounded like their own line of custom cams, not off the shelf stuff. I don't remember much else of what he said other than I believe he said they had 4K miles on their test bike.
:up: :up: How can we get him to elaborate more on this, without being banned for advertising?.
A simple google search brings up the leading edge web site.
Cylinders Barrels
The cylinders barrels are machined in the USA from an aerospace grade billet Aluminum alloy. The unique fin design is based on computer modeling and CFD analysis, resulting in improved air cooling. The cylinder barrels are manufactured by Darton from a specific steel alloy material. I want to make clear that there is NO Nikasil.
Quote from: wfolarry on August 04, 2018, 11:31:52 AM
Cylinders Barrels
The cylinders barrels are machined in the USA from an aerospace grade billet Aluminum alloy. The unique fin design is based on computer modeling and CFD analysis, resulting in improved air cooling. The cylinder barrels are manufactured by Darton from a specific steel alloy material. I want to make clear that there is NO Nikasil.
Interesting, the description in reply #1 directly from the web site states;
"aircraft-grade steel sleeves coated with our proprietary mix of Nikasil nickel/carbide/silicon plating."
Years ago there was a commercial for an orange breakfast drink that said "it's better than orange juice BECAUSE it is half orange juice"
I am the Director of Engineering at Leading Edge Racing Engines and will like to clarify many questions regarding our M8, 151 CID kit.
To start, there is lots of misinformation on the website and I am in the process to correct the website in the next days
Quote from: wfolarry on August 04, 2018, 02:05:46 PM
I am the Director of Engineering at Leading Edge Racing Engines and will like to clarify many questions regarding our M8, 151 CID kit.
To start, there is lots of misinformation on the website and I am in the process to correct the website in the next days
Now that statement I can understand.
Thank you for posting it.
Quote from: No Cents on July 07, 2018, 12:38:23 PM
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note the P3 crank
Wow :dgust:....this could move up my M8 purchase timeline :chop:
As was posted back a bit, and deleted, this kit/engine was going to be shown at Sturgis this year....has anyone seen it there?
I asked a friend that was going to look for it, get printed info, etc. when he went, but he reported back that he couldn't find it....did anyone find it there? :scratch:
Not at rapid city dealer event
Been kinda following along through Instagram. @motorwitch and leading edge have been posting about
Just posted this, and guess I am a slow learner on the M8 stuff!
Time will tell on this beast...😉
BTW....claimed 165 HP & 183 Ft lbs.
176 hp 190 tq in the @vtwinvisonary fxr build is at now. Its a pretty badass build that Jeff Holt did using a donor m8 and @motorwitch built into the 151. Last post I seen Jeff mentioned that leading edge has some heads for it. I think he expects 200/210
Quote from: cdonis on December 16, 2018, 08:06:04 PM
176 hp 190 tq in the @vtwinvisonary fxr build is at now. Its a pretty badass build that Jeff Holt did using a donor m8 and @motorwitch built into the 151. Last post I seen Jeff mentioned that leading edge has some heads for it. I think he expects 200/210
So this is a stock M-8 head on a Leading Edge 151" ?
From what I gather. Not 100 percent.
:up: