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Sealed Wheel Bearing Puller

Started by scootertrash1, March 13, 2019, 03:52:25 PM

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scootertrash1

I am at Daytona Bike Week. While riding 2010 Ultra up US 1 last night, It felt like my front tire was having a problem. After looking closely (in the dark) and seeing no tire issue, I tried moving again. Any speed over 30 was creating a lot of noise. Limped it home 25 MPH. Once home and in the light, I see remnants of my front wheel bearing. Disassembly today and I have pieces of roller cage, race and few roller balls. I looked in the home made tool section in HTT but see nothing on bearing removal tool. My service manual points to a HD-44060B Bearing Remover/Installer. Is there a quick to be had tool available? Local HD wants $175 and me in at 7 AM for them to do. The Ultra just turned 50K miles yesterday and decided to blow the bearings! Thanks.

No Cents

...if your in Daytona...Kirby Apathy's shop is near by you in Deland. I bet he could help you.
08 FLHX my grocery getter, 124ci, wfolarry 110" heads, Burns pipe, 158/152 sae

road-dawgs1

Go get a dynabolt (concrete sleeve anchor) the right size to fit inside the bearing. Tighten the dynabolt so that it grips the inside of the bearing and then drive the bearing out from the opposite side

'24 FLTRX Sharkskin blue

klammer76

Quote from: No Cents on March 13, 2019, 03:59:07 PM
...if your in Daytona...Kirby Apathy's shop is near by you in Deland. I bet he could help you.
I agree. If you can get there, just see Kirby and be done. Especially if you are riding a distance to get home.

doctorevil

how do you get the concrete anchor to expand? i  had to pound the hell out of them into concrete so the bolt did not turn. i used 3/4 anchors for the car lift.

scootertrash1

Thanks for the responses. Deland is a bit of a hike from where I am. I'd just as well come up with the tool to do the job myself. Didn't want to spend $400 for a puller. I'm seeing the puller kits on Ebay and Amazon $60 to $80, have to study which one? Being one in the front went bad, I'll need to change the two there. Dang sure going to pull the two in the rear, then there is my 03' Fatboy that I'll be doing, then my son's Ultra.......

Panzer

Quote from: road-dawgs1 on March 13, 2019, 04:46:06 PM
Go get a dynabolt (concrete sleeve anchor) the right size to fit inside the bearing. Tighten the dynabolt so that it grips the inside of the bearing and then drive the bearing out from the opposite side


Quote from: road-dawgs1 on March 13, 2019, 04:46:06 PM
Go get a dynabolt (concrete sleeve anchor) the right size to fit inside the bearing. Tighten the dynabolt so that it grips the inside of the bearing and then drive the bearing out from the opposite side


I believe you have to hold the bolt while tightening the hex head then the (bottom) center plug will be driven up into the bolt for expansion.
Use a pipe wrench as a hold back.
Everyone wants to change the world but, no one wants to change the toilet paper.

kd

March 13, 2019, 07:29:35 PM #7 Last Edit: March 13, 2019, 07:35:21 PM by kd
If it was me, and I was out of town on a trip,  the $175 would be lookin pretty good, considering it gets me back on the road immediately and enjoying the rest of my holiday.  The time it takes to get the tools, and go to the dealer anyway to get the bearings etc will take a couple days or more.   I'd be takin a cab or Uber to the dealer in the morning (or maybe mooch a ride) with my wheel but that's me....   :nix:  If you do the math it's probably not such a bad deal considering.
KD

PoorUB

Did the bearing fall apart?

If it did you have a bigger problem. None of the normal pullers will pull the bare outer race out of the wheel. You may need to find a welding shop and have them run a bead with a MIG on the outer race. After it cools it should fall out.

If you have some patience, You might be able to put the inner race in place and work the balls into place equally spaced around the bearing and then use a wheel bearing puller.
I am an adult?? When did that happen, and how do I make it stop?!

Hossamania

Quote from: kd on March 13, 2019, 07:29:35 PM
If it was me, and I was out of town on a trip,  the $175 would be lookin pretty good, considering it gets me back on the road immediately and enjoying the rest of my holiday.  The time it takes to get the tools, and go to the dealer anyway to get the bearings etc will take a couple days or more.   I'd be takin a cab or Uber to the dealer in the morning (or maybe mooch a ride) with my wheel but that's me....   :nix:  If you do the math it's probably not such a bad deal considering.

Yup, that. When I'm on vacation, or stranded anywhere, I don't worry about a couple hundred bucks to get me going.
If the government gives you everything you want,
it can take away everything you have.

harpwrench

I'd just pay to have it done right, even if you cobble up a way to remove them the new bearings need to be installed properly. there's reasonable chance of failure your first time even if you had the right tools.

FSG

Quote
Limped it home 25 MPH.

home as in home OR where your staying while there

Quote
Disassembly today and I have pieces of roller cage, race and few roller balls.

As said earlier it's not going to be easy getting the outer race out, even giving it to HD they may come back at you for more $$ once they see what they have to deal with.

I'd be thinking of visiting Kirby so as ton get the outer race out without further damage and then have things measured.  It maybe that the rim has been damaged in the area of the bearing.

kd

Even if Kirby is a short jaunt away and you have to rent a cheap car (under $50) to get there, it sounds like a good choice.   That is of course if he is there and able to help.  Give him a call at least.  Tell him we pressured you into it.   :wink:
KD

fleetmechanic

We've had several front bearings where the inner race and the rollers fall out leaving the outer race intact.  Careful notching with a die grinder on the race and then popping it out with a large screwdriver works.  A heat gun can help, too.
These are not 100K mile bearings even if you don't run in the snow like we do.

kd

All of these self help solutions require tools that I suspect the OP doesn't have with him.  It's always nice to fix your own when it breaks, but some times you just have to have a clear head and find another way to get back in the groove.
KD

PoorUB

A friend had a wheel bearing fail while out west. The one wheel bearing just fell apart. The Harley dealer had him buy a new wheel because the old bearing's outer race was seized in the wheel. Well by god I hope it was seized, it is supposed to be! My guess is they had no clue how to get the outer race out of the wheel once the bearing fell apart and lost the balls.
I am an adult?? When did that happen, and how do I make it stop?!

Norton Commando

March 14, 2019, 05:39:02 AM #16 Last Edit: March 14, 2019, 09:42:51 AM by Norton Commando
Quote from: PoorUB on March 13, 2019, 08:50:27 PM
A friend had a wheel bearing fail while out west. The one wheel bearing just fell apart. The Harley dealer had him buy a new wheel because the old bearing's outer race was seized in the wheel. Well by god I hope it was seized, it is supposed to be! My guess is they had no clue how to get the outer race out of the wheel once the bearing fell apart and lost the balls.

Sad, but true. Many "mechanics" these days are merely robotic-parts-changers. If they run into an obstacle, their solution is to install new parts with little regard to the expense that must be borne by the customer.

With an inexpensive MIG welder, you can easily remove an outer race by making three tacks approximately equally spaced in the ID. Afterwards, the race will practically fall out; it's amazing.

Jason   
Remember, you can sleep in your car, but you can't drive your house.

scootertrash1

I actually live up north of Daytona. It's up on my lift in the garage right now. Got the front wheel off. There was still a few of the steel balls left in it. The cage looked like it was just wadded up like a scrap paper! What I didn't know was the difficulty getting the old race out. In my old EVO days, we cleaned and repacked bearings every 10K miles. When I lived in Illinois, we did this every winter! Got a guy in Bunnell that could put a weld bead on old race. I appreciate all folks commenting in the problem. I'll keep it posting in here on the outcome!

kd

Quote from: scootertrash1 on March 14, 2019, 07:31:34 AM
I actually live up north of Daytona. It's up on my lift in the garage right now. Got the front wheel off. There was still a few of the steel balls left in it. The cage looked like it was just wadded up like a scrap paper! What I didn't know was the difficulty getting the old race out. In my old EVO days, we cleaned and repacked bearings every 10K miles. When I lived in Illinois, we did this every winter! Got a guy in Bunnell that could put a weld bead on old race. I appreciate all folks commenting in the problem. I'll keep it posting in here on the outcome!


That's a whole other story with you living there.  I think most of us were thinkin you were "away" at Daytona on a vacation and broke down.  I know I did and offered my solutions with the thought it would get you back into your holiday quickest and save what was left of a trip.  It sounds like you have a handle on it so have at 'er.   :wink:   
KD

harpwrench

Quote from: kd on March 14, 2019, 07:39:03 AM
Quote from: scootertrash1 on March 14, 2019, 07:31:34 AM
I actually live up north of Daytona. It's up on my lift in the garage right now. Got the front wheel off. There was still a few of the steel balls left in it. The cage looked like it was just wadded up like a scrap paper! What I didn't know was the difficulty getting the old race out. In my old EVO days, we cleaned and repacked bearings every 10K miles. When I lived in Illinois, we did this every winter! Got a guy in Bunnell that could put a weld bead on old race. I appreciate all folks commenting in the problem. I'll keep it posting in here on the outcome!

That's a whole other story with you living there.  I think most of us were thinkin you were "away" at Daytona on a vacation and broke down.  I know I did and offered my solutions with the thought it would get you back into your holiday quickest and save what was left of a trip.  It sounds like you have a handle on it so have at 'er.   :wink:

:agree: :up:

scootertrash1

I didn't intend let people think I was from way out of town! I used to live 1000 miles away, but retired here not long ago.
I am curious as to longevity of these sealed units. My first HD with sealed bearings was a 2007 Ultra that I hit a deer with back in 2009. That scoot (totaled) had 29K on it and of course never an issue with that. I've got a 2003 Fatty with 35K on it with nary a problem. But my 2010 Ultra just turned 50K the day of this bearing failure, this past Tuesday night. Talking with my tire guy about bearings today. He had a Kaw Concourse a few years back that chucked a wheel bearing. Said he never pointed a power wash nozzle at the bearing/seal area, but got presoak and soap around the front and rear axle areas at a coin car wash. When his bearing failed, he said there were no signs of grease in it and concluded it was presoak and soap that dried it up. I never use a power wash but I use S-100 liberally, as all my bikes for 20 some years. What is left of my bearing from Tuesday's action, show hardly any grease residue. Hmmm! Old scoots had new seals and repacked every year. I saw these bearing all the time, but perhaps I ruined the sealed bearing squirting S-100 on them cleaning the bike.

PoorUB

There were a ton of bearing failures when HD went to the 25mm axle, right up through 2010 or so.

50,000 miles? I changed the bearings on my 2010 when I put on new tires about 18,000 miles. The rear bearings were "catching" already.

The HD replacement bearings are much better than the first go-round.
I am an adult?? When did that happen, and how do I make it stop?!

harpwrench

The front started howling around 40k on my '16 Limited, my wife's '13 with 40k has a noisy rear right now.

FSG

The 9276 bearing from HD is/was junk, lots failed on the '09, '10 and '11 and the right front wheel bearing on ABS touring bikes had issues. The new "9276A" bearing is OK.

I'd use a 6205-2RS, SKF, NTN, NACHI  or other from your local bearing house instead of the HD Bearing and instead of the HD ABS Bearing I'd use the PM Alternative.

billbuilds

     FSG,
     Ronnie's on line parts finder is showing a 9276B. Any experience with that version?  Also, would you have the p/n for the PM equivalent of HD''s 9252A ABS bearing? Bill

FSG

Bill

PM info =>  https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?topic=77108.0


the new 9276B Non ABS bearing has metal grease seals on both sides AND only the outer race turns, the seals stay stationary, which is NOT how a bearing should work

I'd not be putting one in my bike   :crook:





This more to my liking

note what they say it replaces   :SM:


scootertrash1

When did HD start with the 25mm axles? Would it had been with the 2007's?

calif phil

I see so many wheels with bad 25mm bearings.  Almost never any 1" bearings failing. 

road-dawgs1

Quote from: scootertrash1 on March 14, 2019, 04:12:10 PM
When did HD start with the 25mm axles? Would it had been with the 2007's?

2008
'24 FLTRX Sharkskin blue

billbuilds

     FSG,

     Thanks for the info. Much appreciated. Bill

klammer76

Quote from: calif phil on March 14, 2019, 04:18:33 PM
I see so many wheels with bad 25mm bearings.  Almost never any 1" bearings failing.
I read about it all the time. So, why did they switch in the first place and why don't they go back to 1"? Is it something to do with ABS?

PoorUB

My guess is the 25mm is a standard bearing, where the 1" was not, not that it ever seemed to make a difference to Harley!
I am an adult?? When did that happen, and how do I make it stop?!

sfmichael

Around 20-25K in my experience you had better start looking pretty closely at them

Pressure washer from an inexperienced detail guy knocked them out in my Deuce at about 6K miles

I scrutinize them closely at every tire change
Colorado Springs, CO.

scootertrash1

Thanks for ALL the responses. I've come to expect over the years on HTT.

Hossamania

I have 35,000 miles on the Ultra, getting new tires this month, I will definitely have them check the bearings and maybe just have new ones put in for peace of mind.
The weird thing is, with the '01 RoadKing, I can't remember ever changing bearings in over 100,000 miles, and I make sure they are checked every tire change.
If the government gives you everything you want,
it can take away everything you have.

scootertrash1

Ordered a Pit Posse bearing puller/installer tool from Amazon. Comes with hardware enough for 3 HD bearing sizes as advertised. I received Saturday. I pulled the wheels off 2010 Ultra yesterday and removed bearings. The remaining 3 intact bearing units are garbage. There was going to be more problems soon!

scootertrash1

This afternoon I put most of the old ball bearings back in the race. I notched, with Dremel, a slot in the race big enough to fit the balls through with tweezers. I already had the inner race fitted to the remover device. Once I dropped a ball in through the slot, I simply rotated the inner race and it walked the balls on around the race so I could space (sort of) evenly :smiled:. I did start with 3 balls. Didn't get all the balls back in, but what I had was enough to walk the old race out pretty easy. It was a good tip and glad I tried it!

doctorevil


klammer76

Quote from: scootertrash1 on March 19, 2019, 11:54:52 AM
This afternoon I put most of the old ball bearings back in the race. I notched, with Dremel, a slot in the race big enough to fit the balls through with tweezers. I already had the inner race fitted to the remover device. Once I dropped a ball in through the slot, I simply rotated the inner race and it walked the balls on around the race so I could space (sort of) evenly :smiled:. I did start with 3 balls. Didn't get all the balls back in, but what I had was enough to walk the old race out pretty easy. It was a good tip and glad I tried it!
Nice job, glad it all worked out for you. Any pictures?

barny7655

FSG [ AND only the outer race turns, the seals stay stationary, which is NOT how a bearing should work, ] please expain in more detail ,or am i missing some thing , in any bearing application either the outer race or inner race turns, as to which one is  held,havent seen any having both turning , would cause heat of the balls or rollers trying to turn at different speeds, the balls or roller bearings rotate on both surfaces, dust seals help with moisture , dirt , grease seepage, some rubber some steel seals depending on where its used, the speed details as to diameter of the inner contact of race to outer race by the rotating balls or rollers  plus the shared weight ,will have the effect on wear and life span of the bearing ,always bye the best makers, for the right job, mainly weight and speed and drag  weight as in cams,shared bearings like two single wheel bearings in harley wheels have only single row  balls, times two giving the double row bearing name , great post,
riding since 62, BSA bantum the first bike

Beave

The 1" bearings (#9247) use double seals on each side, retaining lube better.  Mine still had some lube at 200k when I replaced them as they were feeling slightly rough.
With speed comes stability.

FSG

Quote from: barny7655 on March 20, 2019, 04:14:59 PM
FSG ........

snipped from the Timken Bible

shields n seals are fixed to the outer ring and offer contact OR non contact to the inner ring




IF fixed to the inner ring THEN at operating temperature and rotational speed THE lubricant will under centrifugal force want to be forced passed the shield/seal




Maybe we should just use SKF Bearings with Solid Oil   :SM:

NOTE: below is a 6MB file

https://www.skf.com/binary/101-251466/SKF-bearings-with-Solid-Oil---15894-EN.pdf

Yellow09SERG

All kinds of useful information in the SKF bible. Fits and the IRC stuff is real useful as well as their catalog on mounting and dismounting of bearings.

barny7655

in the ABS bearing  system where is the pickup on,or in  the bearing , may be hence the outer dust seal rotating with the pickup , ? any pics of it
riding since 62, BSA bantum the first bike

scootertrash1

Bearings live one of heck of a life. Looking at the Timken PDF file shows that if I want to ride my scoot -50 C I can or if it is 120 C I can though I don't believe I'll be out that cold. I've got 36K miles on my 2003 Fatboy. Is it worth while to change them. Not so much as the mileage but age of the bearing lubricant being 16 years old? Sometimes I run 95 mph + on I-95 to keep up with traffic.

egstandard

I have the 1 inch bearings on my 04. It has 161,000 miles on it. It's on it's 5th set of bearings. None of them ever went bad. I changed for piece of mind. You should also.

scootertrash1

I agree and think it prudent to do so. Last tire change, they seemed fine but they are 16 years old. 36K on the clock.