I have a tight uphill turn into my narrowing drive. Normally , on previous Harley's, I slip the clutch with a touch of rear brake and just about make it. With this M8 FLHTK it seems more difficult, is it me or is something else going on I need to compensate for.
JohnT
Changing the slave cylinder to a Muller 120-60, or Aim LF002, makes the clutch actuation/release point more manageable.
I struggle with, or rather, just don't like, the engagement of the stock clutch set-up on the M8s.
:up: :up:
Quote from: Hossamania on September 28, 2020, 11:24:25 AM
I struggle with, or rather, just don't like, the engagement of the stock clutch set-up on the M8s.
IMO, it is just different. Keep at it, you will get used to it.
I remember when HD went to hydraulic clutch on the baggers, 2014?. Anyway I traded my 2010 off on a 2016 Limited and it took some getting used to with the hydraulic clutch, but i don't even think about it any more and i slip the clutch often in tight, slow maneuvers.
Quote from: rigidthumper on September 28, 2020, 10:24:34 AM
Changing the slave cylinder to a Muller 120-60, or Aim LF002, makes the clutch actuation/release point more manageable.
:agree:
Solves 2 problems at once.
:missed:
Does anyone know if the AIM or Muller works with a Barnett or Bandit clutch on the M8?
and there is this: https://rekluse.com/product/slave-cylinder-assembly-hd/
If you have the Rekluse Torq-drive clutch plate kit, the other slaves will not work, as the slave travel is not enough to completely disengage the clutch. Ask me how I know.
All you have to do is get a new Harley with hill assist.
Quote from: Buglet on September 29, 2020, 05:42:03 AM
All you have to do is get a new Harley with hill assist.
Does it help with negotiating uphill turns while rolling?
i'am lost why would you need your brake for going up hill. and it should help if you don't know what your doing or having a hard time.
There are some tight uphill switchbacks that require braking, clutch slipping, and throttle, all while negotiating the turn. Even tight u-turns will call this into play.
Watch the motorcycle cops on the test and competition courses, all kinds of simultaneous clutch and brake slipping.
The problem I find with the stock assist and slip hydraulic clutches is that the engagement point is too far out for my stubby fingers.
Watch this video as he gets deeper into the ride and tell me you wouldn't be dragging brake and clutch at the same time on some of these turns. I can tell you from first hand experience that you will smell some clutch and brake lining by the time you reach the top...
https://youtu.be/1_56c5eNvgA
Quote from: Buglet on September 29, 2020, 08:27:37 AM
i'am lost why would you need your brake for going up hill. and it should help if you don't know what your doing or having a hard time.
A combination of brake and throttle allows better control of lean angle when doing steep up hill hair pin turns. I use the technique a lot on the mountain roads I ride each year.
God**** bicycle riders, totally ruined that road. They're like cockroaches, scattered everywhere, how can you even enjoy the ride.
Quote from: Hossamania on September 29, 2020, 08:41:24 AM
Watch this video as he gets deeper into the ride and tell me you wouldn't be dragging brake and clutch at the same time on some of these turns. I can tell you from first hand experience that you will smell some clutch and brake lining by the time you reach the top...
https://youtu.be/1_56c5eNvgA
Hossamania and coyote,
You know the technique, I have done a lot of mountain passes in Europe, the scariest are the slow, tight uphill hairpins.
This is similar, on reflection I think I need a couple more mph to get into the drive.
Thanks all for the input. I was looking for any peculiarities associated with the clutch (I understand it's a slipper clutch) not sure if the has an effect when engine being held against the rear brake moving forward. Also the linked brakes, if by applying the rear at slow speed does it also apply the front, which would give a tendency for the front to fold in if applied with steering lock, which is the case here.
JohnT
Quote from: Nastytls on September 29, 2020, 12:52:07 PM
God**** bicycle riders, totally ruined that road. They're like cockroaches, scattered everywhere, how can you even enjoy the ride.
Quote from: Hossamania on September 29, 2020, 08:41:24 AM
Watch this video as he gets deeper into the ride and tell me you wouldn't be dragging brake and clutch at the same time on some of these turns. I can tell you from first hand experience that you will smell some clutch and brake lining by the time you reach the top...
https://youtu.be/1_56c5eNvgA
It's all part of the adventure!
Maybe this more to your liking...
https://youtu.be/2eDc5ZU8zRA
The brakes are not link at slow speeds, it's somewhere around 35 MPH before there link. I've being all over the country on enough switchbacks, up Pikes peak the dragon plus many more with no problem.
Thanks buglet , that's what I wanted to know. Seems it's in my head, not the bike.
JohnT
Hossamania. Stelvio, been over that three times over the years. But not at those speeds. It is spectacular, they named the Moto Guzzi Stelvio after it, not to far from the factory on lake Como. There are a lot more "adventurous" passes than that around that area.
JohnT
Yes, much better, looks like fun.
Quote from: Hossamania on September 29, 2020, 01:28:52 PM
Quote from: Nastytls on September 29, 2020, 12:52:07 PM
God**** bicycle riders, totally ruined that road. They're like cockroaches, scattered everywhere, how can you even enjoy the ride.
Quote from: Hossamania on September 29, 2020, 08:41:24 AM
Watch this video as he gets deeper into the ride and tell me you wouldn't be dragging brake and clutch at the same time on some of these turns. I can tell you from first hand experience that you will smell some clutch and brake lining by the time you reach the top...
https://youtu.be/1_56c5eNvgA
It's all part of the adventure!
Maybe this more to your liking...
https://youtu.be/2eDc5ZU8zRA
I would like to point out, as a measure of mitigation, that the difficulties I am encountering is with the missus on the back. The solution of course would be drop her off at the bottom of the road, but, it's a matter of saving face. Sure you understand.
JohnT
You'll get better at it .... hopefully.
900 pounds of bike, a passenger on the back, an uphill hard turn, no easy task until it's been repeated many times.
Like you said, commit to the turn, gas it and go.
Quote from: electrajohnt on September 29, 2020, 02:10:44 PM
Hossamania. Stelvio, been over that three times over the years. But not at those speeds. It is spectacular, they named the Moto Guzzi Stelvio after it, not to far from the factory on lake Como. There are a lot more "adventurous" passes than that around that area.
JohnT
There are many other incredible passes in the area, for sure, but Stelvio made the biggest impression on me at the time, because it was our first day riding in Europe, this was the first real Pass of the day, I was on a bike I had never ridden before (BMW R1200RT) which was way too tall for me, the wife was on the back, it was crazy busy, and I was trying to keep up with the guide leading us. I was a wreck by the time we got to the top! Did I mention it was the first time I'd worn a full face helmet? After that, things got easier, but there were still a lot of pucker moments for the next ten days.
I can't wait to get back!
There used to be a couple switchbacks on 87 in the Black Hills like that. Too tight and steep and to roll through in first, because of the climb you had to have some power on, but with the clutch out you would be going to fast, slip the clutch, give it some throttle and pray. I hated them on a 900 pound Ultra with mama on back and packed for a week. I was following Gonenorth on time and he hit it in second, it was fun to watch him slip the clutch in second and damned near dump it. Worst part I was right behind him. If he dumped it, I probably would have dumped it too as there as nowhere to go. If you stop the incline was so screwy there was nowhere to put your down hill foot to hold the motorcycle up. I wondered how some riders even made it up, you know, the bar hopping duck walkers. The last time we were out there they had rebuilt the switch backs so you can roll through really easy now.
I put these on my 2018 RG and it adjusts to release like a normal clutch.
why are aftermarket levers for a Harley $120 and aftermarket levers for my Yamaha R! are $20??
The slip/assist clutch sucks. I replaced mine with a Scorpion.
Quote from: Admiral Akbar on September 29, 2020, 06:28:43 PM
The slip/assist clutch sucks. I replaced mine with a Scorpion.
:up: I agree, it sucks. It's not needed.
On my 16 flhtk I put the top of the fork tubes about 10mm above the upper tree, this makes the chassis feel much more neutral and helps a lot in low speed situations.
Quote from: harpwrench on September 29, 2020, 07:52:08 PM
On my 16 flhtk I put the top of the fork tubes about 10mm above the upper tree, this makes the chassis feel much more neutral and helps a lot in low speed situations.
That's an interesting fix, I had not heard of that before.
Hossamania said" I was a wreck when I got to the top" They are the ones you remember best!
JohnT
Quote from: Hossamania on September 29, 2020, 08:00:34 PM
Quote from: harpwrench on September 29, 2020, 07:52:08 PM
On my 16 flhtk I put the top of the fork tubes about 10mm above the upper tree, this makes the chassis feel much more neutral and helps a lot in low speed situations.
That's an interesting fix, I had not heard of that before.
Sliding the forks in the trees has been around since the early motocross and enduro days. You fine tune the rake and trail for different riding conditions.
Quote from: Ohio HD on September 30, 2020, 03:12:45 AM
Quote from: Hossamania on September 29, 2020, 08:00:34 PM
Quote from: harpwrench on September 29, 2020, 07:52:08 PM
On my 16 flhtk I put the top of the fork tubes about 10mm above the upper tree, this makes the chassis feel much more neutral and helps a lot in low speed situations.
That's an interesting fix, I had not heard of that before.
Sliding the forks in the trees has been around since the early motocross and enduro days. You fine tune the rake and trail for different riding conditions.
That part I knew about, I just hadn't heard it being done on an Ultra.
The way they clamp on the Rushmore bikes makes it super easy, earlier ones wouldn't be. A little adjustment can make a big difference, 10mm works for me 2up with a trailer but might be too much for someone else- simple to tune it to your needs if you wanna try it.
Quote from: harpwrench on September 30, 2020, 07:06:01 AM
The way they clamp on the Rushmore bikes makes it super easy, earlier ones wouldn't be. A little adjustment can make a big difference, 10mm works for me 2up with a trailer but might be too much for someone else- simple to tune it to your needs if you wanna try it.
Harpwrench. Minimum for effect and what is the effect. Say 5mm pulled through the yokes (triple clamps) what impact will that have on the steering/handling.
JohnT
Too much weight on front will make it steer heavy, not enough feels tippy approaching stop signs and wants to fall to the inside of turns on blacktops. When it's balanced it holds a line better in curves/turns, feels more planted in general, and at stop signs. I think it has more to do with weight distribution than rake/trail. This is just my experience with it, not a chassis expert but I've put 90k on my '16 and it hasn't caused me any problems. 5mm will feel different enough for you to know you did something, good place to start and you can tune from there.
Quote from: ziggy24 on September 29, 2020, 05:35:24 AM
and there is this: https://rekluse.com/product/slave-cylinder-assembly-hd/
If you have the Rekluse Torq-drive clutch plate kit, the other slaves will not work, as the slave travel is not enough to completely disengage the clutch. Ask me how I know.
Went that route on my 2020 as part of the 131 build. Never rode the bike in stock form, it kicks a$$.
Just the clutch disks, or did you add a lock up, like the AIM?
Quote from: CVOThunder on September 30, 2020, 11:39:13 PM
Quote from: ziggy24 on September 29, 2020, 05:35:24 AM
and there is this: https://rekluse.com/product/slave-cylinder-assembly-hd/
If you have the Rekluse Torq-drive clutch plate kit, the other slaves will not work, as the slave travel is not enough to completely disengage the clutch. Ask me how I know.
Went that route on my 2020 as part of the 131 build. Never rode the bike in stock form, it kicks a$$.
I have a 17 RK and I had problems with the clutch. I couldn't turn around in the street with the stock clutch, making slow turns was very hard. I got a Aim clutch slave and it made all the difference, now I have no problems making slow turns or turning around in the road. It was well worth the money.
Bigs
Quote from: Nastytls on September 29, 2020, 04:57:13 AM
Does anyone know if the AIM or Muller works with a Barnett or Bandit clutch on the M8?
I tried running the AIM slave unit with the Bandit clutch. It was super easy to pull in the clutch lever in but I couldn't find neutral with the bike running.
Quote from: BigT on November 28, 2020, 05:08:55 PM
Quote from: Nastytls on September 29, 2020, 04:57:13 AM
Does anyone know if the AIM or Muller works with a Barnett or Bandit clutch on the M8?
I tried running the AIM slave unit with the Bandit clutch. It was super easy to pull in the clutch lever in but I couldn't find neutral with the bike running.
Remove the damping spring.
Quote from: BigT on November 28, 2020, 05:08:55 PM
Quote from: Nastytls on September 29, 2020, 04:57:13 AM
Does anyone know if the AIM or Muller works with a Barnett or Bandit clutch on the M8?
I tried running the AIM slave unit with the Bandit clutch. It was super easy to pull in the clutch lever in but I couldn't find neutral with the bike running.
With a cable clutch assist like the Muller unit you have to set the pushrod and cable play to a fine minimum to achieve adequate separation. Any device to lighten pull (cable or hydraulic) does it by changing the ratio (lift). That results in less travel. Bandit wants to see .070 but mine worked with (IIRC) with just over .050. I eventually messaged mine to .065ish after wearing in the new clutch cable, using a return spring on the cable in the cover, and securing the outer cable position. I may even get a bit more after a season on that cable.
I know you are talking hydraulic but my point is you need to set the pushrod at minimum clearance. As it warms up that clearance grows so you'll be OK. With pretty well 0 free play cold I get good minimum free play as it warms up. Try to take up all of the mechanical slack you can and that will pay you back with equivalent extra plate separation. Check your free play cold and then when hot and you will see it happening. Use a dial gauge on the plate to measure lift and check for square lift. . My Bandit pressure plate also had to be indexed when installed. It will fit off of the mark but doesn't work well. I believe the instruction sheet points it out.
What you are struggling with is normal and some throw in the towel. Others have stuck with it and got great results.