HarleyTechTalk

Another concept I had about the device is that it stops the bearing from walking pretty much immediately after the bearing gets a notion to walk; not like the retaining screws or the Softail plate which do not stop the walking until the edge of the bearing bore.  Keeping the bearing close (stopping it as soon as it starts walking) to the flywheel might minimize the effects of runout causing the bearing to walk.

BTW, I know you can see from the pictures, but just to note that the device is made of steel not aluminum. 

QuoteI'm planning on using five 10-24 flathead screws

I'd use a number that would easily divide into 360, like 4, 6 or 8   

I suggest using a thread forming tap VS the standard thread cutting tap, the thread will be stronger. These smaller size threaded holes need all the help they can get.
I would reconsider machining the face of the bore. JMHO.

I like your retainer idea. 

A couple of thoughts...... Cut the ring almost all of the way through in 2 places (maybe drill a hole at the inboard end of the slot) and mark one of 4 screw holes (I am agreeing with FSG on the reduced holes) as say the 12 o'clock position. That will allow it to be removed and replaced in the same position. My Bandit clutch steels are sliced many times part way through to prevent warping and do just fine under all that stress.    The second though is a gasket to cussion the mounting to any irregular casting flaws.   

Les's point about stopping the bearing from even starting to migrate seems to have merit and could be handled with a small shim pac to stack under the plate giving contact or maybe a couple thou clearance for expansion.

Back to you now. 

My progress on the shaping so far, using an ultra high tech tool.

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Quote from: mike jesse on January 10, 2018, 02:58:27 PM
I suggest using a thread forming tap VS the standard thread cutting tap, the thread will be stronger. These smaller size threaded holes need all the help they can get.
I would reconsider machining the face of the bore. JMHO.

I like your retainer idea.

Ok, I'll look into the thread shaping tool.  Also, I do agree that shaping the bore is the right thing to do.  Unfortunately, it defeats the purpose of goals of this device.  Must be done with normal hand tools.

Quote from: FSG on January 10, 2018, 02:45:50 PM

QuoteI'm planning on using five 10-24 flathead screws

I'd use a number that would easily divide into 360, like 4, 6 or 8   

Now why didn't I think of that?!   

Quote from: les on January 10, 2018, 05:59:16 PM
My progress on the shaping so far, using an ultra high tech tool.

I now need to blend in for the two cam reliefs and perhaps a couple more spots to make sure the casing radius is not touching the device.

Cam lobe clear it?

More progress on the shaping (for cams) and approximate bolt pattern.  I balanced five 1/4x20's to show you what I've got in mind for the bolt pattern.  Again, I'll be using the 10-24 flathead

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Quote from: mike jesse on January 10, 2018, 06:28:16 PM
Cam lobe clear it?

I'm not done yet.  I figured six places to shape the device.  Two for the cams, two to the right, and the other two at the bottom yet to come.  (Just posted the picture of the cam relief shaping.)

All done except for the hard part.  Enough for tonight.

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I'd cheat and just do flats after all it'll only go in one way

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Quote from: FSG on January 10, 2018, 07:33:54 PM
I'd cheat and just do flats after all it'll only go in one way

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Damn it, FSG!  Now you're going to make me go back in the garage and consider doing it your way.  Not because it's cheating (like you say) but rather easier to fabricate a repeatable device. 

Thanks for the suggestion.  If I modify, I'll repost a picture.

Anyone know what years the A motors did not have some sort of retaining method?  I know my 2001 had a circular retaining ring, and my 2011 has the screws.  But what years in between then did not have anything?

FSG, when examining the device is real life, the angle cuts intrude on the flexibility of bolt position and also the one on the right comes really too close to the retaining part of the device.  I know it takes a bit more time to make the custom cuts, but it was not that bad.  Maybe an hour sitting over the vice.  The custom cuts were worth it because it gives me a lot of latitude in terms of bolt locations and also still provides lots of metal meat on the right side were things get the most tight.

Location of the six 8-32 bolt holes.

Countersinks

I can't do anymore.  Best I can do.  Done working on it.

I'm getting about 10 threads on the 8-32 screws.  What sort of torque should I put on them?

   good job

I'd go 15 to 18 inch pounds, dont forget the loctite

 nice work les!   

Quote from: FSG on January 14, 2018, 01:28:31 AM
  good job

I'd go 15 to 18 inch pounds, dont forget the loctite

I did not look it up but that sounds high for cast aluminium that does not have threads 2x the bolt diameter. I also would not use dry specs for bolts installed with loctite. I would double check before going that tight, not trying to be a know it all just would hate to see one stripped after all this great work.

Quote from: kd on January 10, 2018, 04:14:23 PM
A couple of thoughts...... Cut the ring almost all of the way through in 2 places (maybe drill a hole at the inboard end of the slot) and mark one of 4 screw holes (I am agreeing with FSG on the reduced holes) as say the 12 o'clock position. That will allow it to be removed and replaced in the same position. My Bandit clutch steels are sliced many times part way through to prevent warping and do just fine under all that stress.    The second though is a gasket to cussion the mounting to any irregular casting flaws.   

Les's point about stopping the bearing from even starting to migrate seems to have merit and could be handled with a small shim pac to stack under the plate giving contact or maybe a couple thou clearance for expansion.

Back to you now. 

I would definitely consider this.  mounting a steel plate on a cast aluminum surface it will not conform to the surface & over time will spit those screws out. JMO.
This was a problem with the Timken conversion if you didn't get it perfectly flat on installation. A lot of people blamed the screws but the real reason was the installation.

Quote from: 1FSTRK on January 14, 2018, 03:28:59 AM

Quote from: FSG on January 14, 2018, 01:28:31 AM
  good job

I'd go 15 to 18 inch pounds, dont forget the loctite

I did not look it up but that sounds high for cast aluminium that does not have threads 2x the bolt diameter. I also would not use dry specs for bolts installed with loctite. I would double check before going that tight, not trying to be a know it all just would hate to see one stripped after all this great work.

fair call, they aren't holding the cylinder head on, so as long as loctite is used so they don't back-out then finger tight to a few in lbs will get the job done

Quote from: wfolarry on January 14, 2018, 05:11:15 AM

Quote from: kd on January 10, 2018, 04:14:23 PM
A couple of thoughts...... Cut the ring almost all of the way through in 2 places (maybe drill a hole at the inboard end of the slot) and mark one of 4 screw holes (I am agreeing with FSG on the reduced holes) as say the 12 o'clock position. That will allow it to be removed and replaced in the same position. My Bandit clutch steels are sliced many times part way through to prevent warping and do just fine under all that stress.    The second though is a gasket to cussion the mounting to any irregular casting flaws.   

Les's point about stopping the bearing from even starting to migrate seems to have merit and could be handled with a small shim pac to stack under the plate giving contact or maybe a couple thou clearance for expansion.

Back to you now. 

I would definitely consider this.  mounting a steel plate on a cast aluminum surface it will not conform to the surface & over time will spit those screws out. JMO.
This was a problem with the Timken conversion if you didn't get it perfectly flat on installation. A lot of people blamed the screws but the real reason was the installation.

Not ignoring your posting...just thinking about it.