I have a 2017 107 Freewheeler
Looking at my Power vision logs I noticed that at WOT my TP% consistently drops from 100% to 85% when the RPM reaches 5000. The MAP continues to stay around 97 to 98 and there's no glitch in the RPM, speed, or seat of the pants performance when this drop in TP% occurs.
- This is consistent with the various maps I've loaded.
- My rev limit is set to 6k rpm and I have set the EP enhancement to 6k as well.
- The throttle twist position shows 100% but TP senor voltage drops as does my TP %
- This same drop in TP @ 5k happened both before and after a change in cams (22x)
- This occurs at all different temps and even for very short time durations over 5k
I have attached a graph below and have looked in my data logs for anything else 'strange' happening above 5k but don't see anything other than the lower TP voltage and TP%.
Can anyone explain what and why this is happening or what else I may try?
Thanks,
Ron
[attach=0]
It's because of background info in the base map- are you tuning with either a modified HD map (ECM extraction) or modified SE map?
Good question. I went back and looked at my pre-cam map I got from fuel moto and it has the same drop in the TP% when the RPM hits just above 5k. I also have a map from HD when the cam was put in and a new map from FM with the cam and all the TP% drop the same. I guess I'll go back to FM and see if they have an answer. It doesn't seem to be any type of an engine protect feature since it's at any temp and very short duration times. I can say the RPM limit at 6100 works.. scared the crap out of me when I hit it once... thought my engine blew!
Thanks for your input, I'm open to any suggestions.
Ron
Looking through my PV tables I see that the AFR only goes to 5000 rpm. Is this correct and could it be that is tied to my problem with the TP% dropping from 100 to 85 every time I pass 5k rpm??? All my other tables go to 6k or higher.
Thoughts???
Just an update, Jamie at fuel moto is working with Dynojet on uncovering some potential secondary limiting that
may affect some tunes. They are working on each tune strategy one by one and will let me know what they find. Seems like a biggy to me that at WOT your TP% drops 15% as soon as you pass 5k RPM. Going to be interesting and wonder how that affects all the dyno runs that have been done??
Ive noticed some AFR tables top out before redline as well. Makes me curious how it determines command AFR protocol.
I had the same question about that and the 2 throttle blade control tables. Can't remember who but someone said that the ECM just used the last cell values of the table. On one hand that makes sense but it also sounds kind a bit questionable. Not much help, but at least you know you're not alone on wondering what the heck.
Ron
Quote from: Ronbo2 on April 15, 2020, 09:51:13 PM
Just an update, Jamie at fuel moto is working with Dynojet on uncovering some potential secondary limiting that
may affect some tunes. They are working on each tune strategy one by one and will let me know what they find. Seems like a biggy to me that at WOT your TP% drops 15% as soon as you pass 5k RPM. Going to be interesting and wonder how that affects all the dyno runs that have been done??
Just to be clear this is not a widespread issue, my feeling is that its limited to certain 2017-2019 Tri Glide & Freewheeler calibrations (which are unique builds) and related to the torque based throttle control, none of hundreds of maps we've developed in house or bike we've tuned experienced any issues, as far as I know the only bike i've seen this in the data was yours. We are going thru each tune strategy to try to clean up the definitions and how the limiters are expressed, limiting may end up as a single switch that shuts everything off rather than individual tables. There is certainly a lot of stuff going on in the new RDRS calibrations as well, but we have a really good handle on it. Hopefully we uncover something in the TG/FW stuff.
Quote from: aharp on April 16, 2020, 05:46:31 PM
Ive noticed some AFR tables top out before redline as well. Makes me curious how it determines command AFR protocol.
It carries out the last value in the column
I had a 2018 FLHTK do this very thing as described in the OP. I was using the as delivered map and trying to modify it. I swapped that map with one off Dynojet's web site and the problem went away.
Quote from: Jamie Long on April 17, 2020, 07:47:40 AM
Quote from: Ronbo2 on April 15, 2020, 09:51:13 PM
Just an update, Jamie at fuel moto is working with Dynojet on uncovering some potential secondary limiting that may affect some tunes. They are working on each tune strategy one by one and will let me know what they find. Seems like a biggy to me that at WOT your TP% drops 15% as soon as you pass 5k RPM. Going to be interesting and wonder how that affects all the dyno runs that have been done??
Just to be clear this is not a widespread issue, my feeling is that its limited to certain 2017-2019 Tri Glide & Freewheeler calibrations (which are unique builds) and related to the torque based throttle control, none of hundreds of maps we've developed in house or bike we've tuned experienced any issues, as far as I know the only bike i've seen this in the data was yours. We are going thru each tune strategy to try to clean up the definitions and how the limiters are expressed, limiting may end up as a single switch that shuts everything off rather than individual tables. There is certainly a lot of stuff going on in the new RDRS calibrations as well, but we have a really good handle on it. Hopefully we uncover something in the TG/FW stuff.
Jamie, thanks for the clarification, learning more every day. Thanks again for all your support, really awesome.
Ron
Quote from: Jamie Long on April 17, 2020, 07:50:11 AM
Quote from: aharp on April 16, 2020, 05:46:31 PM
Ive noticed some AFR tables top out before redline as well. Makes me curious how it determines command AFR protocol.
It carries out the last value in the column
Thanks Jamie :up:
Ok, so tuned a 2019 M8 street glide this weekend and got to see this phenomenon first hand. Around 5k rpm the hp and tq have a noticeable drop in the curves and then continue to carry out. I did not get a chance to log any data as the guy was in a massive hurry to get on a ride :emsad: but I have to think this same thing is going on...
Quote from: aharp on June 07, 2020, 07:22:18 AM
Ok, so tuned a 2019 M8 street glide this weekend and got to see this phenomenon first hand. Around 5k rpm the hp and tq have a noticeable drop in the curves and then continue to carry out. I did not get a chance to log any data as the guy was in a massive hurry to get on a ride :emsad: but I have to think this same thing is going on...
What tuner were you using? Jamie at fuel moto is working with Dynojet to see if they can find some potential secondary limiting that may causing this and I'll be sure to post their findings and hopefully a fix. I've been putting off having mine dyno tuned until there's a fix. Jamie was thinking this was unique to the Freewheeler and tri-glide, but maybe it's not.
Quote from: Ronbo2 on June 07, 2020, 09:43:14 PM
Quote from: aharp on June 07, 2020, 07:22:18 AM
Ok, so tuned a 2019 M8 street glide this weekend and got to see this phenomenon first hand. Around 5k rpm the hp and tq have a noticeable drop in the curves and then continue to carry out. I did not get a chance to log any data as the guy was in a massive hurry to get on a ride :emsad: but I have to think this same thing is going on...
What tuner were you using? Jamie at fuel moto is working with Dynojet to see if they can find some potential secondary limiting that may causing this and I'll be sure to post their findings and hopefully a fix. I've been putting off having mine dyno tuned until there's a fix. Jamie was thinking this was unique to the Freewheeler and tri-glide, but maybe it's not.
It was the power vision. I do not have the cal number in front of me but I am positive I did not use one for a trike.
This can be adjusted by modify the RPM threshold (must have the mode calibrator in WinPV)
Quote from: Robert95 on November 11, 2020, 05:55:51 AM
This can be adjusted by modify the RPM threshold (must have the mode calibrator in WinPV)
I looked all through the WinPV tables and the only RPM related tables are the RPM absolute limit which I have set for 6100 along with RPM limits for PE and EPS able and disable. Is there supposed to be something labeled mode calibrator?
The RPM limit definitely works as I hit it several times (scared the crap out of me), but that's way up at 6100. Since the stock tunes cut off at 5200 (which is right around where I see the problem), I thinking it some hidden table that PV is not making available to modify... just guessing.
Thanks,
Ron
Yes it's a hidden parameter that can be acces only in mode calibrator
you can post your map and i can modify it :)
Quote from: Robert95 on November 13, 2020, 09:17:01 PM
Yes it's a hidden parameter that can be acces only in mode calibrator
you can post your map and i can modify it :)
That would be great! I've attached the power vision map. QUESTIONS ...
1. Will this change of the hidden parameter impact any other function or is it limited to the throttle roll back?
2. Will the changes you make to the hidden parameters stay intact even if I modify some of the other tables latter like AFR and reload it under a new file name?
3. If I have my bike dyno'd down the road will the changes you make stay intact... do I need to tell the person tuning the bike that some hidden parameters have been changed? I'm just not sure if they build off of my existing map or start with one of their own.
Thanks again,
Ron
sorry