15,000 miles new case halves(lifter bores scores and lifter anti rotation bolt broken). Upon reassemble dealer found rocker arm saddle cracked thru the bolt hole. At 10,000 miles a new oil pump.
At the rate your going with this new M8 it will be even newer. Sucks hearing this about a brand new bike.
Quote from: Reddog74usa on August 05, 2018, 10:14:46 AM
At the rate your going with this new M8 it will be even newer. Sucks hearing this about a brand new bike.
when will HD ever get the fix out? never? then come out with a different design in another year or so if they are still afloat? you just have to wonder how these issues are going to sell more bike. when you see so many people with multiple issues and the people who work at the dealership in so many instances outright lying about the M8 saying they have never seen and issue. when you know people who have had multiple issues. it would appear to be login the company is telling these people just maybe to deny problems? its a sad state of affairs and how to do business. people are not going to let it slide this time around you can bet.
Pictures of said damage or it's just another butch session that suspect.
Sorry have not seen any of this reported damage posted on here or in a shop. Lol
Plus 1 post ?bitching...... yep troll on.
Lmao
Quote from: KTA600 on August 08, 2018, 07:46:57 AM
Pictures of said damage or it's just another butch session that suspect.
Sorry have not seen any of this reported damage posted on here or in a shop. Lol
Plus 1 post ?bitching...... yep troll on.
Lmao
Got to wonder who the so called troll really is here?
I wonder too. One post, no response, no follow up.
If it was from someone that has been here and had posted before it would have some credibility.
Quote from: PoorUB on August 08, 2018, 03:38:19 PM
I wonder too. One post, no response, no follow up.
If it was from someone that has been here and had posted before it would have some credibility.
There are a couple here I suspect that are only here to spread the BS and save us from ourselves. Most post nothing positive or helpful .
Yep trolls that don't even own and m8 or have even had one apart.
Quote from: KTA600 on August 14, 2018, 06:59:55 AM
Quote from: PoorUB on August 08, 2018, 03:38:19 PM
I wonder too. One post, no response, no follow up.
If it was from someone that has been here and had posted before it would have some credibility.
There are a couple here I suspect that are only here to spread the BS and save us from ourselves. Most post nothing positive or helpful .
Yep trolls that don't even own and m8 or have even had one apart.
You guys should lighten up. roadglider08 has been on the board since 2012. Lots of members only come here to read and search for info. Just because he only posted once in six years doesn't make him a troll. Maybe he's never been frustrated over a new bike purchase before.
Quote from: Ohio HD on August 14, 2018, 07:31:36 AM
Quote from: KTA600 on August 14, 2018, 06:59:55 AM
Quote from: PoorUB on August 08, 2018, 03:38:19 PM
I wonder too. One post, no response, no follow up.
If it was from someone that has been here and had posted before it would have some credibility.
There are a couple here I suspect that are only here to spread the BS and save us from ourselves. Most post nothing positive or helpful .
Yep trolls that don't even own and m8 or have even had one apart.
You guys should lighten up. roadglider08 has been on the board since 2012. Lots of members only come here to read and search for info. Just because he only posted once in six years doesn't make him a troll. Maybe he's never been frustrated over a new bike purchase before.
not too sure who is being called a TROLL but I find it to be very insulting to call people trolls, bitchers or just people spewing bs. calling people liars and making up stories. I view it to be a person who has no clue at all, or is a dealer who wants to demonize everyone who tells the truth. have been to several dealers, many who lie to you face and say what issu s we have seen nothing, when indeed you personally know people who have purchased a bike from the very dealer and has had multiple issues and huge down time. yes not one not tow not three but several people and several dealers who persist in the lies. bull faced lies, and that weather or not some want to admit, it will be remembered and you can bet there sales will take a hit for the despicable lying. yes we know the troll, they are the ones not willing to admit the reality of the failures . yes they are there, not one or two but far too many failures of the late models. according to some even one person who says they have a failure is lying. pretty pathetic response.
Quote from: happyman on August 14, 2018, 10:34:13 AM
Quote from: Ohio HD on August 14, 2018, 07:31:36 AM
You guys should lighten up. roadglider08 has been on the board since 2012. Lots of members only come here to read and search for info. Just because he only posted once in six years doesn't make him a troll. Maybe he's never been frustrated over a new bike purchase before.
not too sure who is being called a TROLL but I find it to be very insulting to call people trolls, bitchers or just people spewing bs. calling people liars and making up stories. I view it to be a person who has no clue at all, or is a dealer who wants to demonize everyone who tells the truth. have been to several dealers, many who lie to you face and say what issu s we have seen nothing, when indeed you personally know people who have purchased a bike from the very dealer and has had multiple issues and huge down time. yes not one not tow not three but several people and several dealers who persist in the lies. bull faced lies, and that weather or not some want to admit, it will be remembered and you can bet there sales will take a hit for the despicable lying. yes we know the troll, they are the ones not willing to admit the reality of the failures . yes they are there, not one or two but far too many failures of the late models. according to some even one person who says they have a failure is lying. pretty pathetic response.
You did read me response? I think I stated the same.
Quote from: Ohio HD on August 14, 2018, 10:38:15 AM
Quote from: happyman on August 14, 2018, 10:34:13 AM
Quote from: Ohio HD on August 14, 2018, 07:31:36 AM
You guys should lighten up. roadglider08 has been on the board since 2012. Lots of members only come here to read and search for info. Just because he only posted once in six years doesn't make him a troll. Maybe he's never been frustrated over a new bike purchase before.
not too sure who is being called a TROLL but I find it to be very insulting to call people trolls, bitchers or just people spewing bs. calling people liars and making up stories. I view it to be a person who has no clue at all, or is a dealer who wants to demonize everyone who tells the truth. have been to several dealers, many who lie to you face and say what issu s we have seen nothing, when indeed you personally know people who have purchased a bike from the very dealer and has had multiple issues and huge down time. yes not one not tow not three but several people and several dealers who persist in the lies. bull faced lies, and that weather or not some want to admit, it will be remembered and you can bet there sales will take a hit for the despicable lying. yes we know the troll, they are the ones not willing to admit the reality of the failures . yes they are there, not one or two but far too many failures of the late models. according to some even one person who says they have a failure is lying. pretty pathetic response.
You did read me response? I think I stated the same.
sorry, I do thank you for the honesty~ can the public if there is vin # look at the SWR for that bike? I guess should be able to maybe on the HD site is that correct?
Thanks
Any dealer can view the SWR, but you'll have to have a buddy with access to HDNET
Thanks
What is SWR?
Quote from: 14GuineaPig on August 15, 2018, 04:14:39 AM
What is SWR?
Recall and or warranty history. not positive but have been told this.
Sales Warranty Record- any genuine HD accessory, installed within 60 days of bike purchase, should be listed on this form, as it provides custom coverage ( two years, unlimited mileage, just like the rest of the bike has when new)
Just got another M8 in for tune and found another broken cam bolt . ( customer thought the lifters need to pump up and that the cam would be loud , IE woods cam ) First one a shop ( not me) did the install. This one was a cam that customer did his own install . :nix:
This last one was a mess but no case damage , pump plate lifters cam all junk . he only ran it for a short time , then onto trailer for tune to me
So to say that they have no issues ? Its not rumor what so ever they have issue's that is a fact . From the sumping , to plastic lifter holders that break , to cracked heads from the rocker arm bolt . and the cam bolt breakage is not new either ,
and here are the pics to prove it but as a shop I guess I am making this up ?? :hyst:
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1820/43166032735_20265d3e52_c.jpg)
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1820/44072068441_31a126f03d_c.jpg)
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1812/43353895514_245f476c23_c.jpg)
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1791/43166101635_555cf1b4b3_c.jpg)
Did he re-use that bolt? Are they spec'd to be one time use stretch bolts, similar to brake rotor bolts etc?
Expensive mistake. :sick:
bolts get reused I would say 98% of the time as there is no new bolt in the kit from any one,,,,, HD does not tell you that its not re usable item.
You are talking about a 3/8 fine thread grade 8 bolt that is only tq'd to 35 ftlbs .. The bolt is over kill for that application.
Now the one that I did and it broke took over 10,000 or 12,000 ( would have to pull it up inthe system but a bunch of miles ) ended up plugged a piston jet and hurt the rear cylinder . Was in fact a new bolt . I did the install and I use snap on digital wrench's . So I can say for 100% that is nothing more than a bolt failure . ( stock HD bolt )
In this case I feel its the same thing, A few new M8 have had the failure and that is again a new bolt that HD installed
With that said I jut got my order of 1/4 drive allen head cap screws in and every bolt will be replaced from now one .
The build I did was a costly repair that I took care of 100% , year later as well
Quote from: GMR-PERFORMANCE on August 16, 2018, 08:09:13 AM
Just got another M8 in for tune and found another broken cam bolt . ( customer thought the lifters need to pump up and that the cam would be loud , IE woods cam ) First one a shop ( not me) did the install. This one was a cam that customer did his own install . :nix:
This last one was a mess but no case damage , pump plate lifters cam all junk . he only ran it for a short time , then onto trailer for tune to me
So to say that they have no issues ? Its not rumor what so ever they have issue's that is a fact . From the sumping , to plastic lifter holders that break , to cracked heads from the rocker arm bolt . and the cam bolt breakage is not new either ,
and here are the pics to prove it but as a shop I guess I am making this up ?? :hyst:
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1820/43166032735_20265d3e52_c.jpg)
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1820/44072068441_31a126f03d_c.jpg)
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1812/43353895514_245f476c23_c.jpg)
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1791/43166101635_555cf1b4b3_c.jpg)
seen this cam bolt puke twice on a personal bike. more to do with another issue that made them snap. if that motor feels like it has a bit more vibration than most it has crank and balancer problems just maybe, if its an early production bagger specially twin cooled
Quote from: GMR-PERFORMANCE on August 16, 2018, 11:45:15 AM
bolts get reused I would say 98% of the time as there is no new bolt in the kit from any one,,,,, HD does not tell you that its not re usable item.
You are talking about a 3/8 fine thread grade 8 bolt that is only tq'd to 35 ftlbs .. The bolt is over kill for that application.
Now the one that I did and it broke took over 10,000 or 12,000 ( would have to pull it up inthe system but a bunch of miles ) ended up plugged a piston jet and hurt the rear cylinder . Was in fact a new bolt . I did the install and I use snap on digital wrench's . So I can say for 100% that is nothing more than a bolt failure . ( stock HD bolt )
In this case I feel its the same thing, A few new M8 have had the failure and that is again a new bolt that HD installed
With that said I jut got my order of 1/4 drive allen head cap screws in and every bolt will be replaced from now one .
The build I did was a costly repair that I took care of 100% , year later as well
And that's why guys need to go to and Indy U took care of a problem no matter what. On the bolt First one I did didn't feel rite. Now they get 25ftlbs. Next will be Allen bolts.
I would have to think 25ftlb is plenty on a fine thread with lock tight.
I have been using ARP bolts
A 3/8" UNF, Grade 8 bolt isn't even working hard at 35 ftlbs. It isn't the torque that is breaking that bolt, sssuming a quality bolt.
I'll assume the torque is stressing it, as it's probably not a quality bolt.
I wonder if the sproket wobbles a bit on the crank and keeps flexing the bolt. We all know of the "quality" fit of that crank sprocket.
Quote from: rigidthumper on August 16, 2018, 07:19:25 AM
Sales Warranty Record- any genuine HD accessory, installed within 60 days of bike purchase, should be listed on this form, as it provides custom coverage ( two years, unlimited mileage, just like the rest of the bike has when new)
Also worth noting that ANY HD parts included on the SWR will also be fully covered for the duration of any ESP, if there is one. So you're looking at as much as 7 years full warranty coverage on ANY HD component you have installed on the bike by a dealer during the first 60 days. If you had a Stage IV kit installed for example anytime AFTER 60 days, you'll have warranty coverage for 1 yr. If you have that same Stage IV kit installed WITHIN 60 days after the bike's purchase, and then add a 7yr ESP, that Stage IV kit will be fully covered for 7yrs instead of 1yr.
Quote from: PoorUB on August 17, 2018, 03:28:34 PM
I wonder if the sproket wobbles a bit on the crank and keeps flexing the bolt. We all know of the "quality" fit of that crank sprocket.
My thoughts too. Sloppy anti rotational spline fits between gear and cam also that could be torsionally loading it. Something is working the bolt for it to fail, otherwise it should just sit there, like forever and not break. I doubt torque value is the issue. The B motor cb sprockets were about that and they never fail.
Ron
Quote from: rbabos on August 17, 2018, 05:02:17 PM
Quote from: PoorUB on August 17, 2018, 03:28:34 PM
I wonder if the sproket wobbles a bit on the crank and keeps flexing the bolt. We all know of the "quality" fit of that crank sprocket.
My thoughts too. Sloppy anti rotational spline fits between gear and cam also that could be torsionally loading it. Something is working the bolt for it to fail, otherwise it should just sit there, like forever and not break. I doubt torque value is the issue. The B motor cb sprockets were about that and they never fail.
Ron
Quote from: PoorUB on August 17, 2018, 03:28:34 PM
I wonder if the sproket wobbles a bit on the crank and keeps flexing the bolt. We all know of the "quality" fit of that crank sprocket.
I have heard this before... maybe on here. Something about the bolt head not sitting square against the surface, making it flex back & forth at high speed.
Some of the early m8 bikes may have a balance issue when assembled. Should have been Mark's to identify where to put them together. The crank and balancer. No makes. Toss them together and roll the dice out of balance it from what I understand has too much flex. Vibration and presto. Snap a cam bolt. Or two till it got figured our.
Has any one checked the depth of the hole and bolt length? Possibly bottoming out and snapping off where the threads end in the hole because it wasn't finished deep enough and it doesn't have room for expansion? Bob
I did check that not even close to bottoming out
Quote from: FXDBI on August 18, 2018, 03:23:51 PM
Has any one checked the depth of the hole and bolt length? Possibly bottoming out and snapping off where the threads end in the hole because it wasn't finished deep enough and it doesn't have room for expansion? Bob
Was checked for sure
Quote from: GMR-PERFORMANCE on August 18, 2018, 03:53:04 PM
I did check that not even close to bottoming out
Thanks Steve I figured has much but I had to ask anyhow. Smart move upgrading, sad fact that its necessary. Bob
Any chance these are imported bolts? Just asking? We have a quality inspection department that inspects all fasteners to be sure they are not imported.
No idea who makes it or where they get it my first guess is Mexico .
It might be a good idea to magnaflux all bolts before instillation. Could be a crack was in the bolt.
Quote from: hd06 on February 03, 2019, 04:34:16 AM
It might be a good idea to magnaflux all bolts before instillation. Could be a crack was in the bolt.
Slim to nil you would find any cracks. I'm inclined to blame the components the bolt is used for. For then to crack in use, they are being loaded either in tension or torsional cylces after torquing. Better bolt grade can help but don't think it's the root cause.
Ron
Would it be crazy to use an ARP stud, AN washer, and nut?
They are slathering those bolts with white thread locker that is really tough stuff. Lot of torque to remove some of these bolts. Same with rocker cover bolts.
Having said that, the bolts really don't impress either. They could be improved on, but IMO the issue is upon disassembly.
dupe
Quote from: GMR-PERFORMANCE on August 16, 2018, 08:09:13 AM
Just got another M8 in for tune and found another broken cam bolt . ( customer thought the lifters need to pump up and that the cam would be loud , IE woods cam ) First one a shop ( not me) did the install. This one was a cam that customer did his own install . :nix:
This last one was a mess but no case damage , pump plate lifters cam all junk . he only ran it for a short time , then onto trailer for tune to me
So to say that they have no issues ? Its not rumor what so ever they have issue's that is a fact . From the sumping , to plastic lifter holders that break , to cracked heads from the rocker arm bolt . and the cam bolt breakage is not new either ,
and here are the pics to prove it but as a shop I guess I am making this up ?? :hyst:
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1820/43166032735_20265d3e52_c.jpg)
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1820/44072068441_31a126f03d_c.jpg)
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1812/43353895514_245f476c23_c.jpg)
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1791/43166101635_555cf1b4b3_c.jpg)
Where is this cam bolt you are referring to? I am in the process of a cam change and the anti-rotation device bolts have broken off way too easily.
We used these during a recent M8 117" hop up.
linky (https://www.jpcycles.com/product/433-992/feuling-12-point-camshaft-and-pinion-shaft-bolts?mrkgcl=444&mrkgadid=3308569162&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=491901107003_product_type_motorcycles_product_type_engines_product_type_valve_tr&utm_campaign=Google+Shopping++Generic+-+Engines&product_id=433-992&utm_content=pla&adpos=1o2&creative=278867792285&device=c&matchtype=&network=g&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI4r6Iqsis4AIVB7bICh05PAv7EAQYAiABEgI6bPD_BwE)
Quote from: happyman on August 16, 2018, 11:48:48 AM
Quote from: GMR-PERFORMANCE on August 16, 2018, 08:09:13 AM
Just got another M8 in for tune and found another broken cam bolt . ( customer thought the lifters need to pump up and that the cam would be loud , IE woods cam ) First one a shop ( not me) did the install. This one was a cam that customer did his own install . :nix:
This last one was a mess but no case damage , pump plate lifters cam all junk . he only ran it for a short time , then onto trailer for tune to me
So to say that they have no issues ? Its not rumor what so ever they have issue's that is a fact . From the sumping , to plastic lifter holders that break , to cracked heads from the rocker arm bolt . and the cam bolt breakage is not new either ,
and here are the pics to prove it but as a shop I guess I am making this up ?? :hyst:
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1820/43166032735_20265d3e52_c.jpg)
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1820/44072068441_31a126f03d_c.jpg)
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1812/43353895514_245f476c23_c.jpg)
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1791/43166101635_555cf1b4b3_c.jpg)
seen this cam bolt puke twice on a personal bike. more to do with another issue that made them snap. if that motor feels like it has a bit more vibration than most it has crank and balancer problems just maybe, if its an early production bagger specially twin cooled
Are you referring to the cam sprocket bolt? If so, it sounds crazy that the broke. The HD part # is 25566-06 it's called camshaft drive retention kit $5.49. I think I will be going with a new one.
Quote from: les on February 08, 2019, 08:36:40 AM
We used these during a recent M8 117" hop up.
linky (https://www.jpcycles.com/product/433-992/feuling-12-point-camshaft-and-pinion-shaft-bolts?mrkgcl=444&mrkgadid=3308569162&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=491901107003_product_type_motorcycles_product_type_engines_product_type_valve_tr&utm_campaign=Google+Shopping++Generic+-+Engines&product_id=433-992&utm_content=pla&adpos=1o2&creative=278867792285&device=c&matchtype=&network=g&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI4r6Iqsis4AIVB7bICh05PAv7EAQYAiABEgI6bPD_BwE)
I use the Fueling ARP on every cam swap, did two this week and the interesting thing is one set of bolts used 3/8 6 pt socket and the next set was 12 point. Both same part number from Feuling.
For what it's worth, the last three M8 cam jobs I've done had the sprockets out of plane by .012" on average. The SM calls for a max of .009"
I have seen them way out on a TC. So far off I could not get them in spec, only close! Funny how the MoCo doesn't even follow their own spec's!
In my opinion, this bolt is to hard,and will break for this application
Radial Lines 6
psi psi psi
grade 8 proof hard min yield strength min tensile strength
Medium carbon alloy steel, quenched and tempered 1/4" thru 1-1/2" 120,000 130,000 150,000
12.9
Class 12.9 Metric class MPA MPA MPA
Alloy steel, quenched and tempered 1.6mm - 100mm 970 1100 1220
these are the difference between the two classes ,metric and imperial
3 Radial Lines
Grade 5 psi psi psi
Medium carbon steel, quenched and tempered 1/4" thru 1" 85,000 92,000 120,00
im thinking this may be more suitable in my opinion grade 5
You will notice that the threaded part sheared exactly at the stress point, hence the rolled thread on the inner part,the head of the bolt to me seems to large on the shoulder,not letting a true TQ for the 35 ft/lb due to surface area , over tq ,i would of used a different bolt smaller shoulder, plus a washer to expand the TQ on the cam gear , just my opinion , cheers Barny