1983 brakes and master cylinder, engine work

Started by waltcentral, January 15, 2019, 08:33:01 AM

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waltcentral

As I patiently wait for my 83 FLH to arrive from Florida I am thinking about getting as much done this winter as possible. I initially thought of pulling heads and cylinders. I plan on keeping the bike low compression. I am planning on using Mike Kemper in Dillsburg, PA to do any machine work. He worked at the Motor Company as an engineer and and claims he can set me up an engine with 7.2-1 compression that will run 75-80 all day long with no problems.
A good friend says the first thing I should do is a wet/dry compression test and possibly have an oil analysis done as a baseline and go from there.
I then thought about brakes and asking here if I should plan on rebuilding calipers and master cylinders?  I don't want to fix what is not broke. I guess the first thing to do is flush the brakes and get a good look at what is in there.
I am buying the bike from a dealer in Florida that took it on trade for a Panhead they were selling. As I understand it this bike was ridden weekly as weather permitted.
I have not seen or ridden this bike other the multitude of pictures I have seen.



Burnout

I can never recommend going into a bike with preconceived notions unless you have plenty of disposable income.

I liken that to going through the catalog and picking out all the shinny bits that can be bolted on your bike.

The first thing you should do is evaluate, locate, and fix all of the previous owners transgressions.

Then put some miles on it and let it tell you what it needs.

I bought a well used FXR years ago and besides the cam carb and exhaust have not had the need to do any more to it.
I have beat the snot out of it for over 15 years with no troubles.
I have an all new big bore Delkron stroker on the bench waiting for the original motor to expire, it has given no signs of giving up yet.
They don't call me Ironhead Rick just because I'm "hard headed"

david lee

for me id ride it for a while then think about what id need to do

Hossamania

I would expect to do some basic service to it, changing fluids including the brake fluid, and go from there. I'm betting the clutch cable will need to be lubed. Check the dates on the tires. They may look good but be old and hard.
Let us know what you find.
If the government gives you everything you want,
it can take away everything you have.

waltcentral

  Thanks for the advice.  I always anticipated installing a cam and after that everything was on the table. Can't wait to have the bike here.
Walt

Breeze

Be ready for a lot of ??? when working on the bike.  A 36 yr. old Harley has had a lot of hands on it. Even if they were experienced and capable mechanics, as parts on the shelf became scarcer, ingenuity took over.
I'm starting to believe my body is gonna outlast my mind.

JW113

A cam? At 7.2:1 compression??? I can't imagine that anything you put in there will do anything but hurt power. I think you need to give the factory guys some credit. If you're leaving it stock compression, have some faith that they put the best cam profile in there already for that set up.

Anyway, sounds like a fun project. As stated already, a good once over to see what you have, maintenance any items that need it, then ride it sounds like a reasonable plan.

-JW
2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber

Burnout

RE: 7.2:1 compression

My thoughts are it won't make enough power to ever wear itself out.   :down:

It will be really easy to start though.  :scoot:

More aggressive cam profiles usually require more static compression to work.

Personally I would not put any shovel together for the street at less than 8.5:1 or more than 10:1
Or without an oil cooler.

I draw the line at 10 because air/oil cooled motor and poor combustion chamber design and it has to run on pump gas.
The weight of the bike comes into play also and whether you dual plug the heads.
It's not as severe as an Ironhead but the large chamber will benefit from dual sparks.
They don't call me Ironhead Rick just because I'm "hard headed"

JW113

Aw now Rick, my Indian has a whopping 5:1 compression ratio! And it moves out just fine.

Yeah, 7.2:1, must have been a cop bike maybe? Or at least set up like one. Or a Shriner parade bike! LOL! They do that because the cop bikes idle around town all day long. Although I agree, I'd be using the stock 8:1 pistons at the very least. But, is not my bike, so gotta let him do what he wants with it.

-JW
2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber

waltcentral

I got the 7.2-1 compression from the guy that operates the machine shop that is close by me.  He was an engineer at the Motor Company and he indicated a set up using Weisco or Keith Black forged pistons along with any top end work needed.  He said he could build me a bike that would run 80 all day long and stay together. His Name is Mike Kemper and he is in Dillsburg.
I dont know about the 80 MPH all day long but I I want this bike for a HWY runner.
I could care less about doing hole shots.

76shuvlinoff

If you want a highway bike wouldn't you get better fuel mileage with a little more compression? I'm not saying get crazy about it but a little more pop per drop wouldn't hurt... would it?
Critics are men who watch a battle from a high place, then come down and shoot the survivors.
 - Ernest Hemingway

Ohio HD

I had to dust off the old cams data.....

I've put three of these Andrews #1 cams in stock (pipe change and air breather) low compression 80 inch Shovels a long time ago. The bike doesn't become a power house by any means. But they have a bit more zip going through the gears. All three were FX series bikes, so they weren't heavy touring bikes.



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JW113

Interesting. Here is the specs on a Shovelhead stock "H" cam.

[attach=0]

That Andrews #1 looks like a single path cam, i.e. intake and exhaust lobes are mirrors of each other. The HD cam is curious. Dual path, more exhaust duration, but also different timing between front & rear intake lobes. What the hell? The timing on the front lobe is nutty. I've never really heard a good explanation what that is. Anybody?

Not sure why the Andrews would rip through the gears quicker. Maybe that front cylinder is working a little more efficiently?

Regarding the 7.25:1 C/R and highway cruising. I don't mean to discredit your bud Mike, or his ability to put together a good running motor. HOWEVER, it was HD, from the factory, that used the low compression 7.25:1 motors in cop and other 'around town' bikes, the "FL" and "FLP". For the "FLH", with H standing for "Highway" or "High Compression" (does anybody really know for sure?), they used 8:1 C/R. A highway bike, with higher speed and higher load due to aerodynamic drag, need more horsepower than an around town bike that seldom breaks 50mph.

So, if you can, ask this due what his rationale is behind a low compression, high speed, highway bike. Even HD from the factory didn't do that.

-JW
2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber

Ohio HD

Zip through the gears, not Rip through the gears.

1980 and later Shovels were 7.4:1 compression. Two I used this cam on were 1980, one a 1981. Remember lobe profile plays a part in cam / flow dynamics. It's not just about the timing numbers. 

JW113

True, good point. I have a Crane 288-B in my stock compression 74", and frankly think it's over-cammed. I have a stock H cam lying around, think I'll drop that in and see what happens.

-JW
2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber

Ohio HD

If you look at the #1 cams intake closing, its a little less the HD cam. Should build a bit more cylinder pressure. They felt to me like an "A" grind that was in a 74" with 8.5:1 compression, just not as much go. I ran an "A" grind in a really light weight 74" with just under 11:1 compression. Ran really well, had pull everywhere in the RPM range. Just not a big performer in the upstairs.

guppymech

JW113, "The timing on the front lobe is nutty. I've never really heard a good explanation what that is. Anybody?"

The answers I got when I asked about the strange timing of the factory H cam was that it was H-D's attempt to even out the mixtures between the front and rear cylinders as front normally runs leaner.   Andrews used to note in the H cam specs they listed that the later stock S cam specs were similar to the H.
'84 FXE, '02 883R

waltcentral

I dropped the compression on my 1980 FLT to 7.5 from 8.0 shortly after buying that bike. Waqrren OH H-D installed cylinder base gaskets. I know speed limits were lower and cars had less HP. But at 7.5 compression I would get 50 mpg regularly with a S&S carb.
I work with someone who worked at Zippers for years and he suggested using an Andrews A, that cam is now an AB and is a dual pattern cam. I also considered a V-Thunder bolt in or a V-thunder 4000.
Thanks for the opinions and conversation.