HarleyTechTalk

Neighbor just picked up a repo 02 v-rod from the bank. It has no fire when you crank it but every third time or so when you let off the button it fires once. Crank pos sensor??

Quote from: RK103 on June 18, 2017, 06:02:24 AM
Neighbor just picked up a repo 02 v-rod from the bank. It has no fire when you crank it but every third time or so when you let off the button it fires once. Crank pos sensor??

Possibly but try and pull codes as a first step. This should work for the early bikes.
1- Ignition off
2- push odometer reset button in & hold. Make sure run switch is on.
3- turn ignition to run and release button (you will see P, S &C displayed)
4- each letter represents an area of diagnostics... the one that is flashing is the one you are going to check. To move from one letter to the next, you push the button one time. (from P to S to C and back to P, etc.)
5- to get DTC within an area, you push and hold the button in for 5 seconds and if there are any, it will be displayed... you can release the button. As you push the button again, other codes will appear if they are there. If there are not any the word 'none' appears.
6- Record the codes.
7- To determine if a code is current or historic, you clear the codes while being displayed by pushing in and holding the button until 'clear' comes up. Turn off the ignition... then crank or restart the bike... turn off, and then repeat the code process. If a code is there now, its current..
Other basic checks, treat it like any pre CANBUS twin cam since fueling and ignition are about the same.
Ron

No codes, cranked it and still no codes.

Early v-rods were plagued with bad coils. The way to tell early from late coils are early have 2 mounting tabs per coil the updated replacement coil only has 1 mounting tab. Also check the coil boots for arching through the boot and check to make sure the spring inside is not collapsed inside and not making contact with the spark plug.

No signs of arcing and wouldn't arc with the coils out and plugs grounded, springs look good. Doesn't seem like both coils would be bad at same time.

Quote from: RK103 on June 20, 2017, 12:23:14 PM
No codes, cranked it and still no codes.

Obviously you've checked fuses in both locations by now? Some things will not throw codes. Can you hear the fuel pump prime with key on? Fuel pressure between 57-60psi? In order for the CPS to throw a code P0373 CKP sensor intermittent
P0374 CKP not detected/cannot synchronize the engine needs to be cranked for 5 seconds minimum.
To zero in a bit faster if still no codes, squirt a shot of fuel in both tbs and see if it fires. If not, do a spark test. Pull the rear coil, add a spare plug, ground coil and plug and crank it to see if it sparks. The early Revolutions have de compressors on the exhaust valves so compression test is somewhat pointless but both losing compression would be slim.
Ron

Checked all the fuses under the air box cover, pump runs and shuts off, no way to check pressure. cranked for ten sec. before rechecking codes. First thing I tried was squirting fuel in it and it would kick occasionally when I let off the button. That's when I pulled the plugs and it would spark occasionally when letting off the button.

Quote from: RK103 on June 21, 2017, 04:36:25 PM
Checked all the fuses under the air box cover, pump runs and shuts off, no way to check pressure. cranked for ten sec. before rechecking codes. First thing I tried was squirting fuel in it and it would kick occasionally when I let off the button. That's when I pulled the plugs and it would spark occasionally when letting off the button.

Check CPS  Should put out about 3 volts ac when cranking. If you have an old R12 refrigerant fitting, it can be whipped up with a hose and gauge. Schrader valve is located on the right rear part of the throttle body plate. Early GM fuel pressure tester will work also. I was wondering map sensor also but generally not associated with a not start condition. CPS is the best bet since firing fuel into the tb's didn't make it fire up.
Ron

Quote from: RK103 on June 21, 2017, 04:36:25 PM
Checked all the fuses under the air box cover, pump runs and shuts off, no way to check pressure. cranked for ten sec. before rechecking codes. First thing I tried was squirting fuel in it and it would kick occasionally when I let off the button. That's when I pulled the plugs and it would spark occasionally when letting off the button.

Check CPS  Should put out about 3 volts ac when cranking with a charged battery. If you have an old R12 refrigerant fitting, it can be whipped up with a hose and gauge. Schrader valve is located on the right rear part of the throttle body plate (black cap). Early GM fuel pressure tester will work also. I was wondering map sensor also but generally not associated with a not start condition. CPS is the best bet since firing fuel into the tb's didn't make it fire up. Letting off the button acts like a trigger for the coils in the form of a voltage spike. That's why it will make spark but no timing, just luck.
Ron

59 psi fuel, 2.5-2.8 vac from cps.

Quote from: RK103 on June 23, 2017, 07:45:11 AM
59 psi fuel, 2.5-2.8 vac from cps.

Both good. Not the problem there.  I will dig deeper. Could this bike have had the tip sensor activated at some point? Try to cycle the key 4 times. Let the fuel pump quit each time before turning key off for the next key on.
Ron

Been out of commission the last week, had a couple stents put in. Checked today and get a p0374 code.

Quote from: RK103 on July 01, 2017, 09:33:54 AM
Been out of commission the last week, had a couple stents put in. Checked today and get a p0374 code.

RANKING DTC STATUS FAULT CONDITION SOLUTION
1 P0605 Current ECM flash error 4.29 DTC P0603, P0605
2 P0605 Historic ECM flash error 4.29 DTC P0603, P0605
3 P0603 Current ECM EEPROM error 4.29 DTC P0603, P0605
4 P0603 Historic ECM EEPROM error 4.29 DTC P0603, P0605
5 U1300 Current ECM serial data low 4.12 STARTS, THEN STALLS
6 U1301 Current ECM serial data open/high 4.12 STARTS, THEN STALLS
7 U1300 Current TSSM serial data low 4.12 STARTS, THEN STALLS
8 U1301 Current TSSM serial data open/high 4.12 STARTS, THEN STALLS
9 U1300 Current IM serial data low 4.12 STARTS, THEN STALLS
10 U1301 Current IM serial data open/high 4.12 STARTS, THEN STALLS
11 U1064 Current Loss of TSM/TSSM serial data-at ECM 4.32 DTC U1064, U1255
12 U1016 Current Loss of all ECM serial data-at TSSM 3.19 DTC U1016
13 U1096 Current Loss of IM serial data-at TSSM 3.20 DTC U1096, U1255
14 U1255 Current Missing response-at TSSM 4.32 DTC U1064, U1255
15 U1064 Current Loss of TSM/TSSM serial data-at IM 2.15 DTC U1064, U1255
16 U1016 Current Loss of all ECM serial data-at IM 2.14 DTC U1016
17 U1255 Current Missing response-at IM 4.33 DTC U1096, U1255
18 P1003 Current System relay contacts open 4.14 SYSTEM RELAY CHECK
19 P1002 Current System relay coil high/shorted 4.14 SYSTEM RELAY CHECK
20 P1001 Current System relay coil open/low 4.14 SYSTEM RELAY CHECK
21 P1004 Current System relay contacts closed 4.14 SYSTEM RELAY CHECK
22 P1009 Current Incorrect password 4.30 DTC P1 009, P1010
23 P1010 Current Missing password 4.30 DTC P1 009, P1010
24 P0373 Current CKP sensor intermittent 4.25 DTC P0373, P0374
25 P0374 Current CKP sensor synch error 4.25 DTC P0373, P0374
26 P0122 Current TP sensor open/low 4.23 DTC P0122, P0123
27 P0123 Current TP sensor high 4.23 DTC P01 22, P0123
28 P0107 Current MAP sensor open/low 4.20 DTC P01 07, P0108
29 P0108 Current MAP sensor high 4.20 DTC P01 07, P0108
30 P0117 Current ET sensor voltage low 4.22 DTC P01 17, P0118
31 P0118 Current ET sensor open/high 4.22 DTC P01 17, P0118
32 P0112 Current IAT sensor voltage low 4.21 DTCP0112, P0113
33 P0113 Current IAT sensor open/high 4.21 DTCP0112, P0113
34 P1351 Current Front ignition coil open/low 4.31 DTC P1351, P1352, P1354, P1355
35 P1354 Current Rear ignition coil open/low 4.31 DTC P1351, P1352, P1354, P1355
36 P1352 Current Front ignition coil high/shorted 4.31 DTC P1351, P1352, P1354, P1355
37 P1355 Current Rear ignition coil high/shorted 4.31 DTC P1351, P1352, P1354, P1355
38 P1357 Current Front cylinder combustion intermittent 4.19 COMBUSTION ABSENT/INTERMITTENT
39 P1358 Current Rear cylinder combustion intermittent 4.19 COMBUSTION ABSENT/INTERMITTENT
40 P0261 Current Front injector open/low 4.24 DTC P0261 , P0262, P0263, P0264
41 P0263 Current Rear injector open/low 4.24 DTC P0261 , P0262, P0263, P0264
42 P0262 Current Front injector high 4.24 DTC P0261, P0262, P0263, P0264
43 P0264 Current Rear injector high 4.24 DTC P0261 , P0262, P0263, P0264
44 P0562 Current Battery voltage low 4.28 DTC P0562, P0563
45 P0563 Current Battery voltage high 4.28 DTC P0562, P0563
46 P0501 Current VSS sensor low 4.27 DTC P0501 , P0502
47 P0502 Current VSS sensor high 4.27 DTC P0501 , P0502
48 P1651 Current Check engine light open/low 4.6 IM SELF DIAGNOSTICS

49 P1652 Current Check engine light high 4.6 IM SELF DIAGNOSTICS
50 P1653 Current Tachometer low 4.6 IM SELF DIAGNOSTICS
51 P1654 Current Tachometer high 4.6 IM SELF DIAGNOSTICS
52 P1356 Current Rear cylinder no combustion 4.19 COMBUSTION ABSENT/INTERMITTENT
53 P1353 Current Front cylinder no combustion 4.19 COMBUSTION ABSENT/INTERMITTENT
54 P0444 Current Purge control open/low 4.26 DTC P0444, P0445
55 P0445 Current Purge control high 4.26 DTC P0444, P0445
56 P1481 Current Fan output open/low 4.15 FAN OPERATION CHECK
57 P1482 Current Fan output high 4.15 FAN OPERATION CHECK
58 P0505 Current Loss of idle speed control 4.17 IDLE AIR CONTROL
59 B1135 Current Accelerometer fault 3.1 8 DTC B1 135
60 B1134 Current Starter output high 3.1 7 DTC B1 134
61 B1121 Current Left turn output fault 3.14 TURN SIGNAL ERRORS
62 B1122 Current Right turn output fault 3.14 TURN SIGNAL ERRORS
63 B0563 Current Battery voltage high 3.15DTCB0563
64 B1131 Current Alarm output low 3.16 DTC B1131.B1132
65 B1132 Current Alarm output high 3.16 DTC B1131.B1132
66 B1141 Current Ignition switch open/low 3.14 TURN SIGNAL ERRORS
67 B1003 Current IM internal fault 2. 10 DTC B1 003
68 B1004 Current Fuel sender low 2.11 DTCB1004/B1005
69 B1005 Current Fuel sender open/high 2.11 DTCB1004/B1005
70 B1006 Current Accessory line overvoltage 2.12DTCB1006/B1007
71 B1007 Current Ignition line overvoltage 2.12DTCB1006/B1007
72 B1008 Current Trip switch closed 2. 13 DTC B1 008
73 U1300 Historic ECM serial data low 4.12 STARTS, THEN STALLS
74 U1301 Historic ECM serial data open/high 4.12 STARTS, THEN STALLS
75 U1300 Historic TSSM serial data low 4.12 STARTS, THEN STALLS
76 U1301 Historic TSSM serial data open/high 4.12 STARTS, THEN STALLS
77 U1300 Historic IM serial data low 4.12 STARTS, THEN STALLS
78 U1301 Historic IM serial data open/high 4.12 STARTS, THEN STALLS
79 U1064 Historic Loss of TSM/TSSM serial data-at ECM 4.32 DTC U1064, U1255
80 U1016 Historic Loss of all ECM serial data-at TSSM 3.19 DTC U1016
81 U1096 Historic Loss of IM serial data-at TSSM 3.20 DTC U 1096, U1255
82 U1255 Historic Missing response-at TSSM 4.32 DTC U1064, U1255
83 U1064 Historic Loss of TSM/TSSM serial data-at IM 2.15 DTC U1064, U1255
84 U1016 Historic Loss of all ECM serial data-at IM 2.14 DTC U1016
85 U1255 Historic Missing response-at IM 4.33 DTC U1 096, U1 255
86 P1003 Historic System relay contacts open 4.14 SYSTEM RELAY CHECK
87 P1002 Historic System relay coil high/shorted 4.14 SYSTEM RELAY CHECK
88 P1001 Historic System relay coil open/low 4.14 SYSTEM RELAY CHECK
89 P1004 Historic System relay contacts closed 4.14 SYSTEM RELAY CHECK
90 P1009 Historic Incorrect password 4.30 DTC P1 009, P1010
91 P1010 Historic Missing password 4.30 DTC P1 009, P1 010
92 P0373 Historic CKP sensor intermittent 4.25 DTC P0373, P0374
93 P0374 Historic CKP sensor synch error 4.25 DTC P0373, P0374
94 P0122 Historic TP sensor open/low 4.23 DTC P01 22, P0123
95 P0123 Historic TP sensor high 4.23 DTC P01 22, P0123
96 P0107 Historic MAP sensor open/low 4.20 DTC P01 07, P0108
97 P0108 Historic MAP sensor high 4.20 DTC P01 07, P0108

By cranking it long enough I think you found the culprit. Drain the oil and replace it.
Ron
   

Do you think it might have set that code when I was testing the cps?

Quote from: RK103 on July 01, 2017, 09:52:59 AM
Do you think it might have set that code when I was testing the cps?

Good point since I forgot you did that test. Yes it's possible. Clear code, crank it 6-7 seconds and see if it re-appears. Did you check to see if you have power to the coils with key on?
Ron

Cleared code and cranked twenty or so seconds and no new code. No power to coils on any wire with key on. Checked all six.

Quote from: RK103 on July 01, 2017, 04:03:56 PM
Cleared code and cranked twenty or so seconds and no new code. No power to coils on any wire with key on. Checked all six.

I'm trying to find an electrical schematic for you but having a hard time at least one that's clear enough to read. I've got one for my 13 I could send if interested. It will be different in some aspects , colors and so on but the routing should be the same.
I would test the acc and ignition fuses with a multi meter to be sure they are good for now. Sometimes they can fool you. There are also at least 3 grounds on that bike. Two at the top on the heads and one under the engine. All must be grounded. Let me know on the 13 electrical diagram if interested. I will keep searching for the actual 02 version in the mean time.
Ron

Thanks, I was just thinking that I checked for voltage with a test light and there might of be enough power for that. Will check grounds tomorrow and use a meter to check for voltage to coils. Thanks

You might check the system relay. I just got through replacing mine after it would leave me stranded and not start.

System and fan and possibly start relays can be interchanged but since the fuel pump primes, doubt that's the problem. Won't hurt to try a swap and see. Found a source for a PDF and waiting on that for the full electrical.
Ron

Quote from: RK103 on July 01, 2017, 05:30:34 PM
Thanks, I was just thinking that I checked for voltage with a test light and there might of be enough power for that. Will check grounds tomorrow and use a meter to check for voltage to coils. Thanks

Check your PM box.
Ron