HarleyTechTalk

I have a 2012 NRS running topless with Bassini Road Rage II pipes with 'quiet' baffle.  I have a Screamin Eagle Super Tuner.
I'm struggling to get a decent tune.

For some reason Smart Tune does not work for VRods in the Super Tuner software so I purchased MyTune from www.tunemyharley.com.  Folks over at 1130cc.com sweare by this but I've not had much luck with it and no one over there seems to be able to help so asking here.

I had stock pipes with V&H Widows slip on's and she ran great.  Lots of power, smooth acceleration, cruised smoothly with no jerks. misses.  But I wanted to get 2-1 for the look and loose some of the weight of the stock pipes. 

I loaded a base map for Stage 1 that came with the tuner, recorded my ride and used MyTune software to suggest better VE tables.  I've done this quite a number of times as they tell me that you should get closer and closer to needing no changes to the tables each time.  I find that I get a tune that is a bit better, I record etc. again, reflash and it goes a bit worse in certain rev ranges, then gets better next time but splutters at lower revs and so on in circles...

Main issue now is jerky trying to sit on 60km/h (around 4000rpm in 2nd) (suburban street speed here in Australia), and a pig trying to do lower speeds (20km/h-40km/h) which I have to do around the university campus where I work.  Doesn't accelerate like it used to either on the open road, response is there, no real lag, just doesn't have the pull it used to with the stock pipe with slip ons.  And pops and farts like crazy on decel.  I'm starting to regret getting the Bassani pipe but don't want to throw away AUD$1200 I paid for it.

For MyTune to work the author of the software says I need to keep AFR table at 14.6 but I read elsewhere that this is too lean.  So don't know if it is a good idea to change this or not.  And if I do how does that affect the VE tables?  And if I do change the AFR values, what should these be?

I'm hoping to avoid the cost of a DynoTune but looks like I'll have to bite the bullet and do it but thought one more go at some advice from experts in these forums.

QuoteFor MyTune to work the author of the software says I need to keep AFR table at 14.6 but I read elsewhere that this is too lean.  So don't know if it is a good idea to change this or not.  And if I do how does that affect the VE tables?  And if I do change the AFR values, what should these be?

listen to Frank. keep the AFR values at 14.6 so the stock narrow bands will work. if you take the afr to a richer setting then the NB's are not turned on.
once you have populated a good VE table...THEN .. take the afr to a richer setting. your AFR will go richer and be real close to the AFR you are asking for. ( because you calibrated the ve tables in closed loop 14.6) 
try 14.0 in the light load areas where you are having difficulty,once you are confident the ve tables are calibrated. 

Jim is correct. Remember 14.6 is the switch. Actual tuning afr is the clb which is the bais of 14.6, that's actually what you will be tuning to.   If you tune clb to something like this it will be very close and v rod friendly. Do your log runs and MyTune and when satisfied set the low end to open loop as per sample.  Then work the afr table in the low end where problems are noting kpa and rpm as the edit reference. That area might very well end up at 14.0.  I started at 14.4, test , drop to 14.3 and repeat. How the ve table populated in that area determines how far you need to go sine ve and afr table are intertwined. Hell, might end up at 13.0 but keep in mind it actually won't be 13.0 because if the ve table tuned lower then it should the actual afr will be leaner then it's set at. Trying to dial in the ve in the 2750-3250 is an absolute prick on these bike as it will not duplicate ve's from one run to the other. On the other hand over 3500 it's pretty stable. Here's two examples of what I'm talking about. Low end set to open loop. Now note any ill running and only drop the ill running areas . Here is also an example of problem area edit in the afr table. 2500-3500 light load miss resolved with a fatter mixture.
Ron

well said Ron 

Quote from: strokerjlk on December 20, 2015, 09:05:05 AM
well said Ron 

Hope it explains a more effective path to take once a reasonable ve table is populated. It seems like as it is with calibrations. The flash tuner is also a starting point sometimes, not the final tune result.
Ron

QuoteTrying to dial in the ve in the 2750-3250 is an absolute prick on these bike as it will not duplicate ve's from one run to the other.

Thanks for the advice.  Your statement about it being hard to get a good tune between 2750-3250 is probably why I keep going from not-too-bad to pretty-"Potty mouth"ty on various runs through MyTune.  I've just done another and it isn't too bad at the moment so will now play AFR as per your instructions.  I will follow this and let you know how it goes.

Quote from: calabashmc on December 20, 2015, 02:45:00 PM

QuoteTrying to dial in the ve in the 2750-3250 is an absolute prick on these bike as it will not duplicate ve's from one run to the other.

Thanks for the advice.  Your statement about it being hard to get a good tune between 2750-3250 is probably why I keep going from not-too-bad to pretty-"Potty mouth"ty on various runs through MyTune.  I've just done another and it isn't too bad at the moment so will now play AFR as per your instructions.  I will follow this and let you know how it goes.

I'm sure you will get a handle on it with some trial and error.
Ron

OP says that the SEPST smartune does not work so he is using my tunes. I use both, my tunes is more precise but getting the results from the data with SE software also comes close so I miss the point of skipping it and sending data only to My Tunes. This suggests that the data may not be good enough for SE software but My Tunes does use samples that SE does not. also SEPST smartune changes the AFR to 14.6 in most cells yet it is mentioned to do so manually?
I note the stock pipes worked well with the slip ons, but now the 2>1 is difficult to tune. Is there leaks, 02 sensors correctly installed etc comes to mind.
Fine tune with My Tune by all means but SE software has to work or the data is not reliable. IMO

QuoteOP says that the SEPST smartune does not work so he is using my tunes. I use both, my tunes is more precise but getting the results from the data with SE software also comes close so I miss the point of skipping it and sending data only to My Tunes. This suggests that the data may not be good enough for SE software but My Tunes does use samples that SE does not. also SEPST smartune changes the AFR to 14.6 in most cells yet it is mentioned to do so manually?
I note the stock pipes worked well with the slip ons, but now the 2>1 is difficult to tune. Is there leaks, 02 sensors correctly installed etc comes to mind.
Fine tune with My Tune by all means but SE software has to work or the data is not reliable. IMO

1Canuk, in the SE software the 'Smart tune' option is greyed out when I flash the new map.  I read elsewhere that this option is not available for vrod for some reason.  This is why I am using MyTune.
As for your comments about leaking pipes, I did think of that but can't detect any leaks.  I did read elsewhere about advancing the timing to get better performance but too scared to mess with that.

Quote from: calabashmc on December 20, 2015, 09:32:47 PM

QuoteOP says that the SEPST smartune does not work so he is using my tunes. I use both, my tunes is more precise but getting the results from the data with SE software also comes close so I miss the point of skipping it and sending data only to My Tunes. This suggests that the data may not be good enough for SE software but My Tunes does use samples that SE does not. also SEPST smartune changes the AFR to 14.6 in most cells yet it is mentioned to do so manually?
I note the stock pipes worked well with the slip ons, but now the 2>1 is difficult to tune. Is there leaks, 02 sensors correctly installed etc comes to mind.
Fine tune with My Tune by all means but SE software has to work or the data is not reliable. IMO

1Canuk, in the SE software the 'Smart tune' option is greyed out when I flash the new map.  I read elsewhere that this option is not available for vrod for some reason.  This is why I am using MyTune.
As for your comments about leaking pipes, I did think of that but can't detect any leaks.  I did read elsewhere about advancing the timing to get better performance but too scared to mess with that.

Probably because it's a bastard 177 cal. Regardless, all SE needs to do is generate a data log from closed loop inputs. MyTune should be able to handle the rest.
I've found the exhaust type has not a lot of effect on this spastic 2750-3250 area. The Akro pipe behaves the same way even with relocated O2 bungs. Even the stock cal with a more restrictive exhaust has this issue there so I'm suspecting exhaust reversion effecting the sensors could be ruled out.  So then it must be intake reversion. Notice the front velocity stack is longer then the rear and the front cyl is usually the problem child?  No joy there either because equal length v stacks behave the same also. Best I can figure is it's got some real nasty variations in light load charge dilution in that area that causes incorrect ve's when data is collected. Charge dilution should carbon the intake tract, however mine is clean and metal looking all over so another theory shot to "Potty mouth". So, open loop and afr table to the rescue with more fuel to save the day. In the end, it will be a compromise in tune in that small area of operation. While you have stopped the bucking and the odd miss in this area, to do so,  when out of light load it will be a tad rich when transitioning through from an rpm below the problem area.
Ron

Ron I now see why tuning a vrod with SEPST is so difficult. one stage 1 map to choose from that does not use smartune, ridiculous to say the least.

calabashmc

PM sent

Thanks to help from you guys I now have a really nice tune, smooth all the way through the range.
I'm now experimenting a bit to try to get more power.  In particular I'd like to pull a bit faster from stand still.
I read somewhere than advancing the timing will produce more power (I always run 98 octane fuel) so I did that but haven't noticed much difference.  Perhaps I need to advance more?  Knock control is not kicking in at all.
My current AFR table and timing tables are: