HarleyTechTalk

Anyone have real world experience on a E3S or E4S in a stock Evo 80"?

Right now the bike has an Andrews EV-5 in it 
(I didn't put it there! Too much cam for stock compression and stock springs)
Bike blows 140psi

I got this EV-5 Andrews in the best tune I've had the bike in. I never liked the cam because it was soft down low, but it makes really good power once its on. So much that I can rip a nice rolling burnout about twice as far as any 80ci mild shovel I've ridden. I know that not saying much but I'm trying to put it in comparison. Also my bro has two Evo 80s, one 4 speed and one 5 speed (same gearing as me) and he tells me there ain't no catching my bike that I pull away from him that bad.

So I'm considering an E3S or E4S Leineweber bolt-in cam. I'm sticking with a bolt in because its a daily rider and I'm not trying to up my valve spring pressures. Got other bikes to play with that stuff.

My current cam is 252 duration, I was considering other cam manufacturers but now since I got this bike in tune I'm worried dropping something else in besides a Leineweber may be a downgrade in performance. I never had a Leineweber disappoint. I do know they raise hell on valve components is why I'm sticking to their "small offerings". I have their E5S on hand and the lobe profile is more aggressive than I want to run in a daily. This is just my opinion, about the shape of the lobe.

Anyone got the seat time on these grinds?

I put an E5S in a friends 80 inch Evo many years ago. He had an SE cam in it that HD installed and they also took 0.050" from the heads. Since they also had installed valve springs for the SE cams lift, I don't recall now what that was, the Leineweber went right in. He was looking for more low and midrange than what the SE cam had. The cam was no more noisier than the SE cam was.

At the time that I called Jim Leineweber looking for a cam, he had recently put the E5S in the catalog. I explained what the owner wanted, and he suggest the E5S. That would have been around 1991 or 1992.

What I should do is degree what I got before I take it apart.

It would be a good idea (suggested by a friend) to advance the cam I have 4° and see if the power band will come on sooner and the bike will run better with higher cylinder pressures. I think he is right that its worth the time, effort, and possible reward.

Timing is everything, I got a valuable lesson on that recently with a bad ignition combo.

I guess my goal is not to lose any of the power I have now, but more balls under the powerband, maybe power and on a little earlier.

Fun ride solo. Two up and any hills not so much. Being in a rigid mount softail, not fun to have to rev it up with a passenger make power the vibes get too buzzy.

I gotta do rocker box gaskets, figured I'd swap the cam while I'm at it.

I know the 4 5/8" crank would solve my problems but I'm not trying to go there.....Not right now anyway

If you decide to degree the cam, take values for both 0.053" and 0.020" tappet lift. That way you can make a comparison to the Leineweber cam that the specs read from 0.020" lift.

Copy on that

Leineweber lists duration at 0.020 and 0.053 as well for comparison

All of the other numbers published on their chart are at 0.020 though, the way I understand it

They list the duration at both 0.020" and 0.053". But the timing events are at 0.020" in Leineweber's catalog.

Do you ever have a thought out of nowhere? For some reason this cam discussion popped into my brain, and I thought, Jim Leineweber gave the 0.053" lift values for the duration. And the lobe centerlines never change.        So the 0.053" timing values can be calculated from that info. 

So here are those Leineweber cams with the 0.053" lift timing.


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OHIO
What do you suspect the difference in powerbands is E3S vs E4S

I inquired but did not hear back

Do you think either would be a significant upgrade from the Andrews EV5 that's in it now?

I'm not familiar with an Andrews EV5, I have no records for that cam. I have used EV51 and EV59.

Those two Leineweber cams I have not personally used, but just based against the specs, I would say that the E4S would have similar characteristics as the E3S, but probably a little more HP and torque across the RPM range. Leineweber states the E3S as having a broad power band. Both of those cams have a good amount of ground in advance, 5.0° and 7.3°. The increased ground in advance, the lift, and a little less overlap would indicate the E4S as a more torquey cam.

Unfortunately when Jim Leineweber passed away almost two years ago, a lot of general cam knowledge went with him. And the knowledge of his cams, well I think a lot of that went with him as well. His son Justin and daughter in law Legacy run the business. Both are really nice people, but I think that Justin just doesn't have all of the knowledge his Dad had.

Andrews              EV5      -    

28    44    52    20      252    252    48    98    106  102.0 0.530 0.530 0.240 0.190  2500  6500

Looks almost the same as the EV51, slight exhaust timing differences, and 2° less overlap. The EV51 was a decent all around cam, with some compression. But it was at it's best mid range and up.

I would bet that that EV5 and the two Leinewebers would have only some small differences in the way they would run. The Leinewebers may have a wider and power band and pull lower in the RPM.

That "may have" prediction of more torque down low is what I'm looking for, while not sacrificing the top end power it makes now

None of them will be at their best with stock compression. Up the compression and the Andrews will probably feel pretty good to you.

Andrews states that the EV51 requires 9:1 or "higher". Andrews has always been super conservative with their compression requirements. I would go a minimum of 10:1, and 10.5:1 would be better if you have a programmable ignition.

Can you expand more on *Ground in Advance*

I am curious and know nothing about that

Ground in advance is when the cam manufacturer grinds in some degree of advance to the intake timing events. As below from our HTT camshaft comparator I added that calculation.

The Leineweber E4S as an example has 7.3° degrees of advance ground in. The standard E4 has less at 3.0° ground in advance. The premise of adding more intake advance is to lower the intake closing value for one, and that adding more corrected compression. As well all of the intake timing changes, and effects the power range. Ground in advance generally gives you more low and mid power and most likely less upper power.

Advancing the entire cam when there is a lot of advance ground in can have a negative outcome. But you don't know till it's tried.

Great info man. I really appreciate it!!!