Do you guys re-use these bolts? If so do you apply red lock tight? Iirc there is a different torque spec for these then what is in my 09 touring manual (also I have s&s crank)? Thanks to admin coyote for referring me to the sticky list for the shimming process, Great info.
They are too cheap (and usually in stock) to even consider reusing them. The manual says to replace them.
Quote from: kd on October 10, 2019, 06:56:54 PM
They are too cheap (and usually in stock) to even consider reusing them. The manual says to replace them.
:up: I keep those and some other fasteners on hand in the event I need to use them.
Regarding the torque specification, the instructions that came with my revised compensator kit call for 175 ft-lbs. In contrast my workshop manual calls for 140 ft-lbs for the hex bolt. Since I used a new Torx bolt, I simply relied on the lock-tight patch that came on the bolt but some folks will clean off that pre-applied patch and apply their own lock-tight.
Jason
Quote from: Ohio HD on October 11, 2019, 03:30:34 AM
Quote from: kd on October 10, 2019, 06:56:54 PM
They are too cheap (and usually in stock) to even consider reusing them. The manual says to replace them.
:up: I keep those and some other fasteners on hand in the event I need to use them.
Agreed, keep a couple new ones in your bolt box, and occasionally pick up some every now and then from the dealership when you visit. Note that while some folks brush off the locking patch, I just use them as is. Also, I always clean out the sprocket shaft threads to remove any old locking material and any oil that might have migrated in there. Finally, I go exactly by the service manual method during installation. Doing all of this consistently makes removing the bolt a not too tight and not too loose situation.
I reuse them. Clean the threads on both parts , then use red Loctite.
A also heat them before I take them loose. Lock patch or Loctite, I heat them all. Takes a little of the chore out of turning them out by hand.
Quote from: Thermodyne on October 11, 2019, 05:49:40 PM
I reuse them. Clean the threads on both parts , then use red Loctite.
If that is a torque-to-yield bolt it should not be reused.
Jason
It is not a torque to yield. Where did you come up with that.
Quote from: Thermodyne on October 12, 2019, 08:25:30 AM
It is not a torque to yield. Where did you come up with that.
Perhaps you are correct in that it isn't a torque-to-yield bolt. But the 25% increase in the Torx bolt stress compared to the old hex bolt is not trivial. So if the bolt is not at yield at the increased stress level it may be close.
Jason
Quote from: Thermodyne on October 12, 2019, 08:25:30 AM
It is not a torque to yield. Where did you come up with that.
Seems to me it's pretty much there based on the torque. xxx amount of stretch but not quite the yield part. They should be a one time use bolt, however although many will reuse it.
Ron
Quote from: Norton Commando on October 12, 2019, 10:50:23 AM
Quote from: Thermodyne on October 12, 2019, 08:25:30 AM
It is not a torque to yield. Where did you come up with that.
Perhaps you are correct in that it isn't a torque-to-yield bolt. But the 25% increase in the Torx bolt stress compared to the old hex bolt is not trivial. So if the bolt is not at yield at the increased stress level it may be close.
Jason
I believe it's one grade up from the older hex bolts. Grade 9, I think, not grade 8. More of a reason to not reuse it, if that's the case.
Ron
That bolt is the one thing I can think of off hand that's not ridiculously priced. Shocked me the first time I bought one, not worth not replacing to me.
been around since 2014
10500031 SCREW, COMPENSATOR MRRP was 4.04 and is now up to 4.15 depending where you shop
I have reused the bolt, but only because the local dealer didn't even stock them! :wtf: I popped in to get a few parts and asked for the bolt and said they would have to order them, they did not keep them on hand. Now this was about a year or so after HD had release the new comp with the oil deflector. I couldn't believe they did not have them. Out of curiosity I asked the service manager what they do, and they said the reuse them. :nix:
Quote from: Rockout Rocker Products on October 12, 2019, 02:25:26 PM
That bolt is the one thing I can think of off hand that's not ridiculously priced. Shocked me the first time I bought one, not worth not replacing to me.
Bought a new one today. I remember the torque procedures had something like torque to ? then back off 1/2 turn final torque to ?.
Quote from: 838 on October 12, 2019, 08:12:07 PM
Quote from: Rockout Rocker Products on October 12, 2019, 02:25:26 PM
That bolt is the one thing I can think of off hand that's not ridiculously priced. Shocked me the first time I bought one, not worth not replacing to me.
Bought a new one today. I remember the torque procedures had something like torque to ? then back off 1/2 turn final torque to ?.
After backing off 180* tighten to 175 ft-lbs.
Jason
Tighten to 100 ft lbs....back off 1/2 turn....torque to 175 ft lbs....stated in installation instructions....use new bolt....jimmy
Got it thanks. Ive also learned Harley has a lot of their "service info" and instructions online. This I struction set was there too.
https://serviceinfo.harley-davidson.com/sip/service/document/217573?locale=en_US
More people should actually read the contents of this site. There is a great amount of information here, and many (mostly FSG) took a lot of their personal time to put it out here for others.
https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?board=31.0
https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?board=21.0
By the way, if you're not a registered member, don't worry, the links won't take you anywhere.
Quote from: Ohio HD on October 13, 2019, 11:01:59 AM
More people should actually read the contents of this site. There is a great amount of information here, and many (mostly FSG) took a lot of their personal time to put it out here for others.
https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?board=31.0
https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?board=21.0
By the way, if you're not a registered member, don't worry, the links won't take you anywhere.
Amazing. Thank you for posting those.
I asked for a new one a couple years ago and the parts guy asked me if I broke or stripped the original. I said no. Then he asked why I wanted a new one.
:emsad:
My dealer stocks both the earlier hex head & the newer torx.
I bought two of the torx just to have for spares recently It was less than $10
~John
Quote from: jmorton10 on October 15, 2019, 03:04:00 PM
My dealer stocks both the earlier hex head & the newer torx.
I bought two of the torx just to have for spares recently It was less than $10
~John
Is your dealer Utica HD
Quote from: Thermodyne on October 11, 2019, 05:49:40 PM
I reuse them. Clean the threads on both parts , then use red Loctite.
A also heat them before I take them loose. Lock patch or Loctite, I heat them all. Takes a little of the chore out of turning them out by hand.
I've reused them many times, not had a problem ( yet ) .
Quote from: jmorton10 on October 15, 2019, 03:04:00 PM
My dealer stocks both the earlier hex head & the newer torx.
I bought two of the torx just to have for spares recently It was less than $10
~John
Two for ten? That pretty much equals zero dollars.
Bike started making noise and took it to my indie. Needs new compensator but he can't get the bolt out. He's never had one like this before and he's very reluctant to use heat but I'm guessing that's his only option. Suggestions.
I suggest heat to the bolt to soften the loctite patch. I wouldn't use an impact at the first attempt to loosen it. If it breaks off then it's drill and remove with easy out or ultimately re drill until to the threads and it will eventually release. You must be very careful to center the hole and bore in straight. If it is stuck due to thread damage in the crank pin it will become obvious when it gets removed but the crank should be much better steel with a low likelihood of internal problems. If the threads are galled they may be able to be chased out with a thread chaser or tap. Patience is paramount if it comes to this and that won't be cheap at a shop door rate.
If he doesn't know what to do, I'd look for a new Indy.
Heat the bolt, tap on the bolt with a brass hammer while warm, put some muscle to it.
The bolts are cheap. It's the good quality T70 that will cost you. Don't skimp with a Harbor Freight tool on this job. The high torque will twist a cheap bit way before proper torque is applied. Just my experience.
Zach
Quote from: kd on October 10, 2019, 06:56:54 PM
They are too cheap (and usually in stock) to even consider reusing them. The manual says to replace them.
Just had some work done on my 17 softail and that bolt had something white looking on the threads. No red at all. Thought white locktite was a thread sealer and not used to keep bolts from backing out. :scratch:
It's thread locker, factory product is different, made to be pre-applied to mass orders of bolts and dry, then activate when installed. Locker is not applied at the time of assembly in a factory, the bolts are pre "locked", for lack of a better term. It's all about saving time.
Quote from: IronButt70 on February 25, 2020, 08:00:31 AM
Bike started making noise and took it to my indie. Needs new compensator but he can't get the bolt out. He's never had one like this before and he's very reluctant to use heat but I'm guessing that's his only option. Suggestions.
I use a 1/2" ratchet with a four foot piece of pipe slid over the handle. Of course I use a piece of flat stock steel to lock the comp down back to the clutch basket. I have never had a comp bolt say no doing it this way.
Leverage is your friend.
Quote from: No Cents on March 11, 2020, 04:09:02 PM
Leverage is your friend.
A good impact is a better friend. :wink:
I have had a few stubborn comp bolts over the years where the impact did not do so well. The old pipe trick over the ratchet worked after the impact failed. I do need to get a higher torque impact. The one I got is old and tired like me. :hyst:
Depending on the position of the rods and flywheel, rattling away with an impact when the comp sprocket is not held secure and allowed to move with the impact, the rollers, big end and pin are taking abuse (in the one position) that they aren't designed to take. I know lot of people do it but in my mind I keep seeing the rollers banging in the same place repeatedly. It's almost impossible to hold a comp rigid. The impact has to be hard on that torx bit too. I've shattered good quality bits with a hand impact driver. Can't be good. Just for info, if you have any sockets (other than impact design) that you use on an impact gun regularly, have a look at the drive end and after such severe use you can see the wear pounded into the drive square and the fit is looser.
I like the bar and if required, enough heat to warm up the bolt and soften the adhesive patch. I agree with Ray. The longer lever is more calculated than the hit it with the hammer approach.
This is the reason I said "good" impact. My Snap on hits two or three times and out comes the bolt. Beating it to death with a sub par impact is never a good idea.
hence the reason why I use the ratchet with the 4' pipe slid over the handle. With a locking bar between the comp and the clutch basket I just apply a steady pressure on the comp bolt and it actually breaks the bolt loose quit easily using this method.
I don't even think of hitting a comp bolt anymore with a impact...and there is no need to apply heat.
:agree: The hard stability a lock bar gives over a wedge makes a big difference too.
We take no prisoners.
https://www.ingersollrandproducts.com/en-us/power-tools/products/impactools/2235timax-series.html
hence the reason why I use the ratchet with the 4' pipe slid over the handle. With a locking bar between the comp and the clutch basket I just apply a steady pressure on the comp bolt and it actually breaks the bolt loose quit easily using this method.
I don't even think of hitting a comp bolt anymore with a impact...and there is no need to apply heat.
[/quote]
:agree:
hence the reason why I use the ratchet with the 4' pipe slid over the handle. With a locking bar between the comp and the clutch basket I just apply a steady pressure on the comp bolt and it actually breaks the bolt loose quit easily using this method.
The old Mexican torque amplifier :teeth: