HarleyTechTalk

Quote from: ziggy24 on September 22, 2023, 08:59:51 AM

Quote from: hrdtail78 on August 18, 2023, 03:06:36 PMHere is the intake manifold.

You cannot view this attachment.

Interesting that they dumped the plastic manifold.

The shape change is also interesting.  Obviously the intake on the heads also changed. 

Quote from: ziggy24 on September 22, 2023, 08:59:51 AM

Quote from: hrdtail78 on August 18, 2023, 03:06:36 PMHere is the intake manifold.

You cannot view this attachment.

Interesting that they dumped the plastic manifold.

I would say they did that due to the non-round port connection. That elliptical shape would most likely not seal well made from plastic. A round shape nade from plastic will resist collapsing under pressure from the intake seal and flange. An elliptical shape will

Quote from: ziggy24 on September 22, 2023, 08:59:51 AM

Quote from: hrdtail78 on August 18, 2023, 03:06:36 PMHere is the intake manifold.

You cannot view this attachment.

Interesting that they dumped the plastic manifold.

A plastic version with the elliptical shape would fail faster than the round plastic manifold does.

Another video released from Feuling regarding the 121 CVO motor. I hadn't heard it mentioned until I saw this video, HD removed the head breathers completely and are venting through the transmission housing and then back to the TB air breather. They didn't go into any details as to what type of valving is used in the new venting system.

Thank you for posting that video.   I was curious about that line to back of Air Cleaner when I changed out mine to the Extreme Heavy Breather. Nice they are using a better head gasket now.

I'll roll over 5000 miles on mine today, its at 4983 right now.

I thought this was a significant bit of info from V Twin Powersports. They've used an aftermarket ECU from Rusefi on a 2023 CVO 121VVT. According to what they said, the new ECU, no RPM limiter, no traction control, no speed limiter, and no air box on the bike. Other than that all stock including exhaust.

Pretty impressive. And I think they as well as others will possibly find more in them as tuning tools progress for this motor.

V Twin Powersports 2023 CVO 121VVT

They added a D&D system, a few more ponies came out.

That is pretty impressive for just tuning, albeit by a new ECU.  Adding a good pipe sure helps this tune. Great torque curve.  I would like to see what Power Vision and TTS accomplish tuning this and keeping traction control and the other rider aids, but removing rev limiter and speed limiter.

It'll be a while before anybody gets access to the factory ECM. HD went to great lengths to prevent tuning access- that's why Mark went with a non-factory ECM. As of right now, he is the only game in town.

Quote from: rigidthumper on December 17, 2023, 05:49:02 AMIt'll be a while before anybody gets access to the factory ECM. HD went to great lengths to prevent tuning access- that's why Mark went with a non-factory ECM. As of right now, he is the only game in town.

Guessing factory ECM has 256 bit encryption. Will take time to crack if it does.

They have a dual can bus protocol with air gap flashing, in addition to the normal encryption. The race teams are not even using the new system.

I saw somebody posted some blank cams for VVT.  Now a tuning strategy.

That should start making for some lively times. I imagine the tuning process will be somewhat complex, or at least add time to the tuning session.

I don't think we will get control over valve timing.  We might get an ignition trim table based on cam position.  BUT I would bet that cam advancement at 100kpa is predicable.

If I follow the VVT operation, the shift in cam timing is either, here or is there, and not variable. Is that how the system works? 

I guess I should have written this as the cam timing is variable, just that it has a fixed advance and retard position, and not anywhere in between. At least that's how I understand it.

Not sure on how timing actually is achieved.  That said I know that both Fueling and S&S are both working on cams for the VVT 121.

Looks like H-D is planning on VVT for the future and the New body style Road Glide and Street Glide and CVO ST have the same timer cover as the VVT 121.

The cam covers look the same, but they are not- the 117RG/SG & 121ST use the 25701666 cover, and only get a cam prox sensor (32700162), where the CVORG & SG 121VVT uses the 25701485 cover, gets that same cam prox sensor, and a VVT Cam actuator solenoid (31500034).
Data found here & here.

   Looks like they use the same engine cases for ST and VVT 121. But a different number for the 117 I would say it's the same cases just the color is the reason for the different part number. I think this will give you the option to go either way.   

All 2024's have the same primary gearing and 2.87 final drive.
The Road Glide ST has a 3.06 final drive...

If you want to see some flow #'s
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=pfbid02XyvAfXiYCkXKjWr5qVRd91g13gn3AKyVVxFpArLsbx7SNK7DUek8NT8xCnSYn1R6l&id=100063488652744

Here it is on the flow bench
https://www.facebook.com/100063488652744/videos/521062117041067